Sheffield United and Wales footballer Ched Evans found guilty of Rape

CSF

In addition, I think whatever Sheff United end up doing (it will be a lot easier to do if they don't sign him) they should be reconsidering the naming of that stand.

Jessica is entitled to her opinion and if it was my club, it is one that I would share, but I don't think its appropriate to use such an honour as political leverage so publicly.

monkey9

No chance will Sheff Utd keep him on. He'll have to go abroad.

CSF

monkey9 wrote: »

No chance will Sheff Utd keep him on. He'll have to go abroad.

You might be right about Sheff United, but I would see a team panicing about the drop taking him on no problem.

TheMilkyPirate

Deleted User wrote: »

Eeeehhhh, when the 12 people happen to be jurors, yeah, that usually does settle it.

He may set it aside, but right now, he is a rapist.

I think he should be allowed pursue his career but if not, boo hoo, maybe he'll think twice before raping the next time he's out.

You do realise that Jurors are just people like you and me picked off the street. They have no qualifications.

TheMilkyPirate

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

You do realise that Jurors are just people like you and me picked off the street. They have no qualifications.

Yes.

I was responding the the sarcastic post by someone that if 12 people think he is guilty, that settles it, by pointing out that that's what generally happens when the 12 people are jurors.

Richard Hillman

The not so very likable chap needs to work but considering the reaction by some Sheffield Utd fans after the trial and his release, it would be a bad message being sent.

Evans is probably a bit of pleb and football is the only way he can make a wage. He needs emoloyment or he needs to use whatever money he made from football to reskill himself. I doubt he has much money left tbh.

I know I may sound like I feel sorry for him (I don't) but I don't think he is a danger to society. I don't think he will reoffend. It would be no use to anybody if he was on the dole for life.

acquiescefc

Kirby wrote: »

If he won his appeal would that suddenly change your stance? Are you that easily convinced of something?

He appealed the sentence at the Royal Courts of Justice. It was rejected and he was advised if he continued with this it was possible he could have the time served already added back to the original sentence. He didn't appeal any further.

I have to have faith in the justice system that a judge and jury can see the difference between someone going a bit too far and when they have forced someone to do something they haven't consented to.

On that basis that's the answer to your question.

He's dragging the name and reputation of his former employers down and they are desperately trying to hope itll blow over. It wont.

Dozen Wicked Words

acquiescefc wrote: »

He appealed the sentence at the Royal Courts of Justice. It was rejected and he was advised if he continued with this it was possible he could have the time served already added back to the original sentence. He didn't appeal any further.

I have to have faith in the justice system that a judge and jury can see the difference between someone going a bit too far and when they have forced someone to do something they haven't consented to.

On that basis that's the answer to your question.

He's dragging the name and reputation of his former employers down and they are desperately trying to hope itll blow over. It wont.

He's awaiting the official case review now which could also quash his conviction.

dreamers75

WOW

http://www.pfai.ie/news/hanging-ched-%E2%80%93-double-jeopardy-court-public-opinion

Just fcuking WOW

CSF

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

He's awaiting the official case review now which could also quash his conviction.

That would really blow open a massive can of worms the size of this country

POKERKING

dreamers75 wrote: »

WOW

http://www.pfai.ie/news/hanging-ched-%E2%80%93-double-jeopardy-court-public-opinion

Just fcuking WOW

I agree with everything in the article. One of the best articles I have read on this case.

Mezcita

They lost another patron today in Paul Heaton (former Housemartins singer). He raised an interesting point on Channel 4 news. That if anyone else got done for such a serious crime, they would never even be considered for a role with their former company once they been released from prison.

The problem is money. Evans has a certain skill set which would be valuable assuming he got back to the same level prior to him being sent to prison. If Shefield United don't sign him, another club definitely would but from their point of view it's a PR disaster. They risk losing sponsors and more high profile fans by having anything to do with him.

acquiescefc

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

He's awaiting the official case review now which could also quash his conviction.

It could also be a(nother) last act of desperation assuming hes nothing new to bring to the table.

Chucky the tree

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

He's awaiting the official case review now which could also quash his conviction.

He's had his case reviewed already by 3 high court judges and they rejected it. He's now going to the Criminal cases review commission and they over-turn about 2% of cases. I wouldn't putting any bets on his conviction being quashed.

Dozen Wicked Words

acquiescefc wrote: »

It could also be a(nother) last act of desperation assuming hes nothing new to bring to the table.

It could be. It's being expedited though, which maybe suggests there is a bit of concern about his conviction. The relatively short sentence the judge handed down might also indicate he wasn't wholly comfortable with the verdict. Who knows, I'm only guessing. Think he would have been sensible to wait for it until going anywhere near football again, and Sheffield United would definitely have been better to wait until all his options were exhausted.

acquiescefc

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

It could be. It's being expedited though, which maybe suggests there is a bit of concern about his conviction. The relatively short sentence the judge handed down might also indicate he wasn't wholly comfortable with the verdict. Who knows, I'm only guessing. Think he would have been sensible to wait for it until going anywhere near football again, and Sheffield United would definitely have been better to wait until all his options were exhausted.

Sentence was actually 5 years, he did around 2 years with good behaviour and time served.

Not an argument as i dont know but is 5 years classed as short sentence? Sounds about right to me

Dozen Wicked Words

acquiescefc wrote: »

Sentence was actually 5 years, he did around 2 years with good behaviour and time served.

Not an argument as i dont know but is 5 years classed as short sentence? Sounds about right to me

Article from guardian couple of years ago says 8 is average but there were over 100 who did less. So you could well be right.

acquiescefc

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Article from guardian couple of years ago says 8 is average but there were over 100 who did less. So you could well be right.

Assume average rape cases are more violent as in with malice's which probably demand higher sentences, (not that this crime in any way wasnt violent)

acquiescefc

acquiescefc wrote: »

Sentence was actually 5 years, he did around 2 years with good behaviour and time served.

Not an argument as i dont know but is 5 years classed as short sentence? Sounds about right to me

Only 2 years for rape is disgraceful tbh

CSF

rarnes1 wrote: »

Only 2 years for rape is disgraceful tbh

It really does seem like they honestly weren't that sure. Bizarre.

Harry Palmr

Drawing parallels with the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six is as about as ill judged as I can think.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

It really does seem like they honestly weren't that sure. Bizarre.

The jury was sure.

The judge does not decide whether it happened or not. Nor should he reflect some doubt in his own mind in the sentence, he has to accept the decision of the jury.

CSF

Deleted User wrote: »

The jury was sure.

The judge does not decide whether it happened or not. Nor should he reflect some doubt in his own mind in the sentence, he has to accept the decision of the jury.

I'm aware, but the sentencing definitely reflects some lack of confidence in the verdict IMO, despite when I read the evidence, the judge was fairly open in his opinion that Ched Evans was a guilty man.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

I'm aware, but the sentencing definitely reflects some lack of confidence in the verdict IMO...

The prosecution was satisfied with the sentence, as they did not appeal it.

Not sure there is any evidence to suggest that it was completely out of line with other cases where the victim was drunk, the case seems to be more one of opportunism than violence (not that that makes it any less of a rape), there was no violence etc. All those factors that shouldn't go to determining whether rape occurred or not, but will go to the sentence.

CSF

Deleted User wrote: »

The prosecution was satisfied with the sentence, as they did not appeal it.

Not sure there is any evidence to suggest that it was completely out of line with other cases where the victim was drunk, the case seems to be more one of opportunism than violence (not that that makes it any less of a rape), there was no violence etc. All those factors that shouldn't go to determining whether rape occurred or not, but will go to the sentence.

I read through a transcript of the proceedings and evidence, and much of the case centred not so much around the sequence of events, but whether the amount of alcohol consumed merely eliminated the victim's inhibitions, or whether it eliminated the victim's ability to consent, and whether it would be clear to the perpetrator that the victim's ability to consent had been eliminated.

The fact that Ched Evans exited through the fire exit seemed to be the piece of evidence (albeit circumstancial) that truly damned him, as it indicated that he was aware. Naturally his argument would probably be that he had a girlfriend who he wouldn't have wanted to know about it.

Harry Palmr

Blog item removed.

http://www.pfai.ie/news/hanging-ched-–-double-jeopardy-court-public-opinion

Agent Coulson

Sheffield United have retracted their offer to let convicted rapist Ched Evans use their training facilities.


In a statement it said:

"Sheffield United have decided to retract the opportunity for its former player, Ched Evans, to use the club's facilities for training purposes," adding that the U-turn followed consultation with supporters, officials, staff and sponsors.
"We recognise that a number of our supporters will be disappointed with this decision, but would ask that they remember the responsibilities we have not only to a fine and proud club, but also to the communities in which Sheffield United is active.
"The club condemns rape and violence of any kind against women in the strongest possible terms."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30054475

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sheffield United have retracted their offer to let convicted rapist Ched Evans use their training facilities.


In a statement it said:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30054475

The right decision

Dozen Wicked Words

Weeks too late from any point of view. PR mess for the club.

POKERKING

Wrong decision for me and wrong way of going about it.

Wonder whats next for him? will he get picked up by someone else?Surely there are enough clubs desperate for a striker that will take a chance?

CSF

POKERKING wrote: »

Wrong decision for me and wrong way of going about it.

Wonder whats next for him? will he get picked up by someone else?Surely there are enough clubs desperate for a striker that will take a chance?

Yeah you'll get a club in a bad way that need to take a risk, and he will have to work his way from there

greendom

CSF wrote: »

Yeah you'll get a club in a bad way that need to take a risk, and he will have to work his way from there

not so sure, the publicity generated is something no club will want. Wonder whether any club outside of the UK would take him ?

laoch na mona

I can see him leaving the UK altogether and playing somewhere else, which is a pity as it's basically letting him off the hook, Sheffield eventually made the right call at least

POKERKING

laoch na mona wrote: »

I can see him leaving the UK altogether and playing somewhere else, which is a pity as it's basically letting him off the hook, Sheffield eventually made the right call at least

Letting him off the hook? he did his time and paid his dues.....

I wonder will his appeal mean he wont go outside the country? Football fans are fickle, if murderers can be accepted back then he can no problem.

laoch na mona

POKERKING wrote: »

Letting him off the hook? he did his time and paid his dues.....

I wonder will his appeal mean he wont go outside the country? Football fans are fickle, if murderers can be accepted back then he can no problem.

just like Larry murphy did :cool:

Evans has shown no remorse for what he has done, in fact he doesn't seem to understand that he did something illegal, If he was rehabilitated he could and should be welcome back, but he's not so welcoming him back would send out a horrible message to victims not to mention reinforce his limited grasp of what consent means

CSF

laoch na mona wrote: »

just like Larry murphy did :cool:

Evans has shown no remorse for what he has done, in fact he doesn't seem to understand that he did something illegal, If he was rehabilitated he could ands should be welcome back, but he's not so welcoming him back would send out a horrible message to victims not to mention reinforce his limited grasp of what consent means

He maintains that he didn't do what they say he did. I'm not saying that is definitely true (although having read through the evidence I'm not convinced), but that isn't the same thing as showing no remorse.

CSF

greendom wrote: »

not so sure, the publicity generated is something no club will want. Wonder whether any club outside of the UK would take him ?

The publicity would definitely be unwelcome at any club, but I think if at the end of January, into February, you're sitting at the bottom of League One, there's a high chance you're going to be wondering if a proven goalscorer at that level is going to be maybe worth the risk.

greendom

CSF wrote: »

The publicity would definitely be unwelcome at any club, but I think if at the end of January, into February, you're sitting at the bottom of League One, there's a high chance you're going to be wondering if a proven goalscorer at that level is going to be maybe worth the risk.

I suppose Marlon King is a case in point. He always managed to find a club that would take him on/back.

eyescreamcone

laoch na mona wrote: »

just like Larry murphy did :cool:

Evans has shown no remorse for what he has done, in fact he doesn't seem to understand that he did something illegal, If he was rehabilitated he could ands should be welcome back, but he's not so welcoming him back would send out a horrible message to victims not to mention reinforce his limited grasp of what consent means

He "did the crime and did the time" - now the time is over.
He should be allowed to earn a living using any skills he has.

Should he not be allowed play football for profit?
Should he be allowed play for an amateur team?
Should he only be allowed to work in jobs out of the public eye?

When you start asking these questions you open up a real can of worms!

CSF

greendom wrote: »

I suppose Marlon King is a case in point. He always managed to find a club that would take him on/back.

Yeah, I think there is a way back but you will always be working at a disadvantage, which for me seems about right.

I don't think anyone should ever be operating from a clean slate after causing that much damage to another person's life.

laoch na mona

eyescreamcone wrote: »

He "did the crime and did the time" - now the time is over.
He should be allowed to earn a living using any skills he has.

Should he not be allowed play football for profit?
Should he be allowed play for an amateur team?
Should he only be allowed to work in jobs out of the public eye?

When you start asking these questions you open up a real can of worms!

I'll ignore your questions and address that ridiculous statement in bold, going to jail is not enough criminal justice should not serve as a time out. People should be rehabilitated so they no longer pose a threat, he's an adult so he needs to act like one apologise for what he did and learn what consent actually is so he doesn't do something like this again.

I honestly believe he thinks he is innocent, not because the victim is lying but because he doesn't understand what to drunk to consent is

CSF

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'll ignore your questions and address that ridiculous statement in bold, going to jail is not enough criminal justice should not serve as a time out. People should be rehabilitated so they no longer pose a threat, he's an adult so he needs to act like one apologise for what he did and learn what consent actually is so he doesn't do something like this again.

I honestly believe he thinks he is innocent, not because the victim is lying but because he doesn't understand what to drunk to consent is

But you don't know this to be the case, you're speculating with no real basis on what he knows or doesn't know.

All we know to be true, is that he maintains he is innocent, and a jury believed him to be guilty.

He maintains his innocence so it would be bizarre for him to apologise.

acquiescefc

laoch na mona wrote: »

just like Larry murphy did :cool:

Evans has shown no remorse for what he has done, in fact he doesn't seem to understand that he did something illegal, If he was rehabilitated he could and should be welcome back, but he's not so welcoming him back would send out a horrible message to victims not to mention reinforce his limited grasp of what consent means

People ignoring that this is why he shouldnt be 'given the benefit' and that 'he probably didnt do it anyway'.

I think they should sign him up. Now the whole world know theyre a laughing stock and not just us Wednesdayites.

niallo27

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'll ignore your questions and address that ridiculous statement in bold, going to jail is not enough criminal justice should not serve as a time out. People should be rehabilitated so they no longer pose a threat, he's an adult so he needs to act like one apologise for what he did and learn what consent actually is so he doesn't do something like this again.

I honestly believe he thinks he is innocent, not because the victim is lying but because he doesn't understand what to drunk to consent is

If he apologises he is admiting guilt though, I think this whole case is very dodgy. I was shocked he got the sentence he got. There are probably hundreds of men and woman who are too drunk to consent every night of the week. I dont she would have reported it if he wasn't a footballer.

djPSB

niallo27 wrote: »

If he apologises he is admiting guilt though, I think this whole case is very dodgy. I was shocked he got the sentence he got. There are probably hundreds of men and woman who are too drunk to consent every night of the week. I dont she would have reported it if he wasn't a footballer.

Did she not have sexual relations with a different person a few minutes before and that man was found not guilty??

niallo27

djPSB wrote: »

Did she not have sexual relations with a different person a few minutes before and that man was found not guilty??

Yes she did. She also deleted her Twitter messages on how she was going win big. She also deleted all her facebook messages from the night. This doesn't sit right with me.

djPSB

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes she did. She also deleted her Twitter messages on how she was going win big. She also deleted all her facebook messages from the night. This doesn't sit right with me.

It doesn't really make sense that she was somehow able to consent to have sex with the first man yet too drunk to consent to the second.

The same principles should apply to both situations.

keane2097

A lot of people I wouldn't like my sister drinking a naggin around in this thread.

niallo27

keane2097 wrote: »

A lot of people I wouldn't like my sister drinking a naggin around in this thread.

It's easy to say that. Are you saying that there not women out there who would love a few quid off a footballer and don't care how they get it.

POKERKING

niallo27 wrote: »

It's easy to say that. Are you saying that there not women out there who would love a few quid off a footballer and don't care how they get it.

Not to mention if Ched hadnt of admitted he had sex with her he wouldnt of been convicted as there was no evidence of any intercourse and the victim couldnt remember.

The case is as dodgy as they come, she was sober enough to do things on cctv going into the hotel, consumed no alcohol for the proceeding few hours yet couldnt remember consenting while one man got convicted and the other got free, there is no sense in that.

Alot of the case centres around Ched leaving through the fire escape which as he had a girlfriend and is a famous footballer isnt the most illogical thing to do.

It just stinks, however he has done his time(whether you agree to the sentence or not) he is essentially a free man and is paying double for the crime now.