Sheffield United and Wales footballer Ched Evans found guilty of Rape

Dozen Wicked Words

bucketybuck wrote: »

So why wasn't the first guy she slept with prosecuted?

She consented to having sex with him.

pmasterson95

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

She consented to having sex with him.

Thats always been problem she remembers nothing but remembers this.

bucketybuck

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

She consented to having sex with him.

How does she know? Isn't the whole conviction based on the fact that she was too drunk to give consent?

CSF

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

She consented to having sex with him.

How can she if the legal logic is that she was too drunk to consent? That's the whole premise of the case, not that Ched Evans held her down and forced her against her will.

Dozen Wicked Words

CSF wrote: »

How can she if the legal logic is that she was too drunk to consent? That's the whole premise of the case, not that Ched Evans held her down and forced her against her will.

Should have put a question mark at end of my post. I didn't mean to state fact, merely a possible answer to why McDonald was aquitted.

maximoose

bucketybuck wrote: »

So why wasn't the first guy she slept with prosecuted?

According to case summary:

The complainant stated that she had no memory of any sexual activity with either of the two men.

It's a strange one.

CSF

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Should have put a question mark at end of my post. I didn't mean to state fact, merely a possible answer to why McDonald was aquitted.

The contrast in their judgements stinks to the high heavens.

Either there was inconclusive evidence against both to convict them, or they're both guilty of having sex with a woman who was too drunk to consent.

Nerdlingr

I dont remember there being this furore when Lee Hughes went back playing football.

The whole case stinks to me anyway. Both had sex with the girl. One gets done for rape. Either convict both or acquit both. Cant see how they can do one and not the other.

A Primal Nut

bucketybuck wrote: »

So why wasn't the first guy she slept with prosecuted?

How? The first guy met her in a kebab shop at the end of the night. They had no idea how much she drank. She may have been a bit drunk. Looking at the cctv video she is clearly conscious, she can walk she is linking her arms and smiling. She was well able to give consent.

She says she doesn't remember anything so how did she even remember she had sex with evans? She went to the police that same night.

Muff_Daddy

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I dont remember there being this furore when Lee Hughes went back playing football.

I wonder if any of those 60,000 Oldham fans signed a petition against Lee Hughes' signature.

Luke McCormack, a man who got into a car twice over the legal drink limit and killed two young boys has been accepted back into football by Plymouth Argyle, as captain no less, and has been given tributes by his manager and teammates, and bearly a squeak of outrage from anyone. Certainly no 24 hour news coverage like Ched Evans is getting now.

Double standards or what.

bucketybuck

A Primal Nut wrote: »

How? The first guy met her in a kebab shop at the end of the night. They had no idea how much she drank. She may have been a bit drunk. Looking at the cctv video she is clearly conscious, she can walk she is linking her arms and smiling. She was well able to give consent.

She says she doesn't remember anything so how did she even remember she had sex with evans? She went to the police that same night.

How can somebody be sober enough to consent to sex with person A, then within 1/2 hours be so completely wasted that she cannot even remember having sex with person B? Did she state that she started drinking again after the first sex, because the only way this even makes sense (apart from the obvious), is if she immediately started chugging raw vodka or something after the first sex, and there seems to be no mention of that in the trial?

As others have said, this whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Dozen Wicked Words

There aren't 60,000 Oldham fans. Average home gate is barely over 4000, that includes away fans.

Muff_Daddy

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

There aren't 60,000 Oldham fans. Average home gate is barely over 4000, that includes away fans.

I really should have put that 60,000 in inverted commas.

CSF

A Primal Nut wrote: »

How? The first guy met her in a kebab shop at the end of the night. They had no idea how much she drank. She may have been a bit drunk. Looking at the cctv video she is clearly conscious, she can walk she is linking her arms and smiling. She was well able to give consent.

She says she doesn't remember anything so how did she even remember she had sex with evans? She went to the police that same night.

Well if she was sober enough to consent with one, she was sober enough to consent with the other. Simples.

Donnielighto

CSF wrote: »

They know she had consumed 2 and a half times the legal driving limit.

I've had sex when I've been plastered and the girl wasn't as drunk, should I get her charged?

CSF

Donnielighto wrote: »

I'm had sex when I've been plastered and the girl wasn't as drunk, should I get her charged?

I don't make the law. What should and shouldn't constitute rape is hardly suitable for this thread or this forum.

Having sex with someone who is too drunk to consent is considered rape in the eyes of the law and that's really all that's relevant to this discussion. Whether he's guilty of that or not.

Personally I don't know whether he's guilty of not and I'm not sure the jury did either, and still he got convicted.

Donnielighto

If you are coherent enough to walk and talk then you are coherent enough to make a decision. Outside of sexual issues we are responsible for our actions in the eyes of the law, I cant claim I was too drunk if i punch someone or am acting the bollix.

ThunbergsAreGo

Was it mentioned if she had consumed more alcohol after the first guy? Didn't see it anywhere

Having read up on it, it's not what I thought had happened when I heard the word rape and the protests involved

Augmerson

Wait, she was so drunk she couldn't remember having said, but then sobered up enough to go to the cops the same night? Or do I have it arseways?

CSF

Augmerson wrote: »

Wait, she was so drunk she couldn't remember having said, but then sobered up enough to go to the cops the same night? Or do I have it arseways?

Was reported the following day.

CSF

naughtb4 wrote: »

Was it mentioned if she had consumed more alcohol after the first guy? Didn't eye it anywhere

There was no in between

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

There was no in between

So how did she get drunker? Because thats not how alcohol works.

Donnielighto

Donnielighto wrote: »

If you are coherent enough to walk and talk then you are coherent enough to make a decision. Outside of sexual issues we are responsible for our actions in the eyes of the law, I cant claim I was too drunk if i punch someone or am acting the bollix.

Is that the case though?

Also, is that true in the eyes of the law?

CSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

So how did she get drunker? Because thats not how alcohol works.

I'm agreeing on that

EuropeanSon

I believe the argument was that she didn't even talk to Evans, she was essentially passed out when the guy she couldn't be proved to not have consented to having sex with invited Evans over to the hotel room to rape her, which he then did.

CSF

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I believe the argument was that she didn't even talk to Evans, she was essentially passed out when the guy she couldn't be proved to not have consented to having sex with invited Evans over to the hotel room to rape her, which he then did.

Nope, I've posted the court proceedings a few pages back if you want to have a look.

EuropeanSon

CSF wrote: »

Nope, I've posted the court proceedings a few pages back if you want to have a look.

That reads basically exactly as I said.

There was no evidence she ever even saw Evans or knew he was coming, she could have been unconscious all the time.

LuckyLloyd

The case is weak as **** but nonetheless he was convicted.
The man has served an amount of time the justice system deems acceptable.
Let him play.

The moral high horse people can do one as far as I'm concerned. This is how society is supposed to work.

CSF

EuropeanSon wrote: »

That reads basically exactly as I said.

There was no evidence she ever even saw Evans or knew he was coming, she could have been unconscious all the time.

But there's no evidence that suggests the contrary either. It's just an assumption. And if she was drunkenly unconscious she is in no position to consent with the other guy ever.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

CSF wrote: »

They know she had consumed 2 and a half times the legal driving limit.

Is that not roughly 4 bottles of beer?

Donnielighto

EuropeanSon wrote: »

That reads basically exactly as I said.

There was no evidence she ever even saw Evans or knew he was coming, she could have been unconscious all the time.

You're supposed to proof guilt not assume it.

CSF

baz2009 wrote: »

Is that not roughly 4 bottles of beer?

Not sure, I think the alcohol thing is very hazy and I'm surprised it was the key factor in him being convicted, given someone else got off.

niallo27

The deleted tweets and facebook messages don't look good for her either.

Augmerson

niallo27 wrote: »

The deleted tweets and facebook messages don't look good for her either.

What's this?

niallo27

Augmerson wrote: »

What's this?

She deleted all her facebook messages that she sent her friends as she lost her phone and also she tweeted about going to be rich and a new car and going on holidays.

bucketybuck

Augmerson wrote: »

What's this?

Tweets to/from friends along the lines of "When we get our payout its going to be holidays all the way" etc etc.

Comments made by her afterwards have no bearing on whether Evans raped her or not.

She is entitled to sue him and get money if she succeeds. And if she wants to spend it on sun holidays, good luck to her.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

Comments made by her afterwards have no bearing on whether Evans raped her or not.

She is entitled to sue him and get money if she succeeds. And if she wants to spend it on sun holidays, good luck to her.

Why delete them so. Do you think it's normal to talk about money and holidays you can take after just getting raped.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Why delete them so. Do you think it's normal to talk about money and holidays you can take after just getting raped.

As I understand Evans support has resulted in her going into hiding, leaving her home and changing her name. No wonder she may have deleted messages and tweets. Although, as her name should not be published, I am not sure how people know what she put up on her Facebook or Twitter accounts. Did you read them?

Either way, I don't know what a rape victim should say.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

As I understand Evans support has resulted in her going into hiding, leaving her home and changing her name. No wonder she may have deleted messages and tweets. Although, as her name should not be published, I am not sure how people know what she put up on her Facebook or Twitter accounts. Did you read them?

Either way, I don't know what a rape victim should say.

She deleted them before she even went to the cops, before anyone knew her. You don't think that's odd.

Kirby

Of course he does but facts, smachts! He's made his mind up and anything that points to the contrary will be disregarded as irrelevant or ignored.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know what a rape victim should say.

You know what most rape victims don't do? Post cheery messages on twitter after being raped. Anybody who has seen what rape does to a person knows that would be the last thing on their mind.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

niallo27 wrote: »

She deleted them before she even went to the cops, before anyone knew her. You don't think that's odd.

Deleted User wrote: »

Comments made by her afterwards have no bearing on whether Evans raped her or not.

She is entitled to sue him and get money if she succeeds. And if she wants to spend it on sun holidays, good luck to her.

Were these twitter comments made before ro after the incident?

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

She deleted them before she even went to the cops, before anyone knew her. You don't think that's odd.

Did you read the messages? How do you know what she said? How many other times do we read about the rape victim's reaction on social media?

Oh yeah, that's because in most other cases there is a basic respect for rape victims that has gone out the window here.

Either way, the reaction of a rape victim doesn't make the rape all better.

Kirby wrote: »

Of course he does but facts, smachts! He's made his mind up and anything that points to the contrary will be disregarded as irrelevant or ignored.

You know what most rape victims don't do? Post cheery messages on twitter after being raped. Anybody who has seen what rape does to a person knows that would be the last thing on their mind.

See above.

Facts smachts? Evans is a convicted rapist. She is a rape victim. Anyone who has seen what rape does to a person knows that it is the rapist who deserves the contempt and derision.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Facts smachts? Evans is a convicted rapist. She is a rape victim. Anyone who has seen what rape does to a person knows that it is the rapist who deserves the contempt and derision.

If the tweets are genuine, then it doesnt; sound like she suffered all that much.

I know what rape is. I can only imagine what it does to a person. But this wasn't the pre-meditated sexually-aggresive assault rape you're making it out to be. I'm not even convinced it was rape in the first place even if that's what the court said.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

If the tweets are genuine, then it doesnt; sound like she suffered all that much.

I know what rape is. I can only imagine what it does to a person. But this wasn't the pre-meditated sexually-aggresive assault rape you're making it out to be. I'm not even convinced it was rape in the first place even if that's what the court said.

There is no requirement in the laws of rape that the victim must suffer.

If you know what rape is, you would know that the victim may have had no objection or recollection at all, rape victims may be asleep, drugged, drunk, may have an intellectual disability and be unable to comprehend what has happened to them and so on.

Plus, it doesn't matter whether you are convinced. The fact is that he was convicted. He is a rapist. She is a victim. Even if she lacks the broken nose and blood streaming down thighs that some might expect from rape victims.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you read the messages? How do you know what she said? How many other times do we read about the rape victim's reaction on social media?

Oh yeah, that's because in most other cases there is a basic respect for rape victims that has gone out the window here.

Either way, the reaction of a rape victim doesn't make the rape all better.



See above.

Facts smachts? Evans is a convicted rapist. She is a rape victim. Anyone who has seen what rape does to a person knows that it is the rapist who deserves the contempt and derision.

Yes I read the messages. They are easily found. I think she wanted money.

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no requirement in the laws of rape that the victim must suffer.

If you know what rape is, you would know that the victim may have had no objection or recollection at all, rape victims may be asleep, drugged, drunk, may have an intellectual disability and be unable to comprehend what has happened to them and so on.

Plus, it doesn't matter whether you are convinced. The fact is that he was convicted. He is a rapist. She is a victim. Even if she lacks the broken nose and blood streaming down thighs that some might expect from rape victims.

But mistakes are made. No system is perfect. If every situation that occurred in circumstances like this was prosecuted like this I think a fair few people would be in trouble.

Kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact is that he was convicted.

Correct. A fact.

Deleted User wrote: »

He is a rapist.

Not a fact.

Being convicted of something does not mean you are guilty of it.......and a not guilty verdict does not mean you didn't do it.

Are you really that naïve? Innocent people go to prison all the time and guilty people walk free. Laws are changeable depending on the time and the county. Right and wrong never changes.

If posters on boards think he's an innocent man surely more qualified people will be able to turn this around for team Ched

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

Being convicted of something does not mean you are guilty of it....

It actually means precisely that.

That's the whole point of a trial, to determine guilt.

What did you think they were all about?

He has been found guilty of rape. Facts smachts, as you'd say.