narky westie when out walking??

happyclapper

We have a 6 month old westie. He is a little cranky at the best of times but also very loving. The only thing we are walking him he growls, barks and runs at any other peson we meet along the road. He is on the leash so we pull him back and tell him its bold. But dont want to be making a scene in front of the people.

How do we deal with that? Any tips?

Ayla

IMO, sod the "making a scene" idea...your dog does not understand the word "bold" nor does he care whether or not you're making a scene. He needs to know - in no uncertain terms - that his activity is not acceptable, and that you - his pack leader - do not approve.

If I was you, I would instantly "talk dog" to him (growl fiercely while asserting yourself physically over him) anytime he exerts himself like that.

When he's on a walk your dog is not protecting his home turf/territory. He may think he's protecting you, but he needs to know that what he's doing is not only embarrassing and annoying, it can be dangerous.

happyclapper

Thanks Ayla. I do sometimes worry that he would snap as he is impossible to calm until we have walked well past the person. Even today we went walking and we passed a school just as kids were playing in the sports pitch and he barked, snarled adn was pulling to get at them! That behaviour worries me.

HemlockOption

Ayla wrote: »

IMO, sod the "making a scene" idea...your dog does not understand the word "bold" nor does he care whether or not you're making a scene. He needs to know - in no uncertain terms - that his activity is not acceptable, and that you - his pack leader - do not approve.

If I was you, I would instantly "talk dog" to him (growl fiercely while asserting yourself physically over him) anytime he exerts himself like that.

When he's on a walk your dog is not protecting his home turf/territory. He may think he's protecting you, but he needs to know that what he's doing is not only embarrassing and annoying, it can be dangerous.

This is rubbish. The dog does not see you as another dog - that theory has been discredited.

He's only 6 months old - still a baby. As a westie - he's tiny and is scared of bigger creatures/people. Barking is his way of showing that. As he gets older, he'll get more and more used to people and other dogs, and will grow in confidence.

ButtersSuki

Hi happyclapper,

I'm the very proud owner of 2 Westies; one of whom is the best behaved dog in the world, the other who is more than slightly bonkers! I have had similar problems when walking them ( from one dog only, can you guess which one? ) and have worked very hard to eradicate this behaviour with limited success. One thing that works very well for me is prevention of this behaviour by distracting the dog with a small squeaky toy any time we're approaching other dogs. She behaves impeccably around children and pretty well with any dog she has previously met, but she does sometimes go mad barking at "new" and unknown dogs. Little treats also work to distract her. I know this isn't changing the behaviour, but it's working and avoiding a scene.

One thing that did help enormously was a behaviour course at Dog Training Ireland (I'm not affiliated in any way to them in case you're wondering), you'll find them online. If you're not in Dublin, there's probably a similar service wherever you live, but do check the trainer is approved and accredited in advance.

Westies have HUGE personalities, enjoy it and best of luck with yours!:)

boodlesdoodles

I have a Westie too and we had a similar problem in the early days. I used to turn him around giving strict ah-ah sound (that he was very familiar with:rolleyes:) head in the opposite direction. I also found talking to him as we walked helped, maybe my voice calmed him. Your dog is still only a puppy, he hasn't a clue really what he's at so that's where you come in. Be firm, let him know in strong terms his behaviour won't be tolerated but in a calm way. Getting excited yourself will only make him more excitable. Westies have huge personalities, that's what I love most about my fella but it took a lot of work to get him to walk calmly. Now he walks past other dogs, kids etc without a second glance. Best of luck.

Ayla

HemlockOption wrote: »

This is rubbish. The dog does not see you as another dog - that theory has been discredited.

I don't deal in "theories" when training my dog - I deal in what works. In my experience with a number of large-breed dogs, I act as their leader and they obey.

Allowing any dog -regardless of size - to assert himself as the OP's dog does is dangerous, and suggesting that you "give it time" is plain irresponsible. He has to learn that that behaviour is wrong.

kylith

The dog needs to learn that people are not a threat. If possible get some friends that the dog doesn't know. Then you should walk along the street as these people walk toward and past you, without making eye contact with the dog, and drop treats as they pass. Very soon your dog will associate people with good things and stop barking at them.

HemlockOption

Ayla wrote: »

I don't deal in "theories" when training my dog - I deal in what works. In my experience with a number of large-breed dogs, I act as their leader and they obey.

Allowing any dog -regardless of size - to assert himself as the OP's dog does is dangerous, and suggesting that you "give it time" is plain irresponsible. He has to learn that that behaviour is wrong.

Well, I think most people get dogs to have as part of the family and to enjoy their company. Dogs have personalities - they're all different.

With respect, you sound as if you treat your dog like a robot.

I think love and gentle firmness works better.

happyclapper

Thanks everyone. I know he is only a baby but we never had a dog together before (meaning my husband and I) and even though our families both had dogs we worry we are doing something wrong with him.

He is a dote and we knew they have strong willed personalities when we chose as westie and we too loved that about them. I love the idea about the treats as he is extremely food driven so that may well work.

Zapperzy

It might be no harm contacting a behaviourist and have them go for a walk with you to see what they think. Any of them on this list http://apdt.ie/index.php/find-a-trainer/ is a good place to start. He could be doing this for any number of reasons so it is important you find out why and how best to tackle the problem, for example re treats if you give him a treat at the wrong time you could end up reinforcing the wrong behaviour instead of reinforcing the desired behaviour.

Save your money and avoid any behaviourist who talks about dominance and asserting yourself over him, or uses harmful methods such as choke chains.

Ayla

HemlockOption wrote: »

Well, I think most people get dogs to have as part of the family and to enjoy their company. Dogs have personalities - they're all different.

With respect, you sound as if you treat your dog like a robot.

I think love and gentle firmness works better.

With respect, you have spoken out of turn. The only reason I advocated serious action w/ the OP's pup is because he was being overtly aggressive while on the lead. If it had only been a matter of barking that would have been one thing, but the OP was saying that he was lunging & growling, and the OP even said his/herself that they feared going near schoolage children...that is aggression, and why I suggested some rather serious techniques.

Imagine if the OP's pup was a large breed and acting that way - people would be screaming that it was vicious and ill tempered. But since it's a small dog - what, it just needs some TLC to get over little-man syndrome?

I do not use choke chains, and my Great Dane sleeps on a duvet at the foot of my bed. My rottie is currently curled up at my feet. They are members of my family and I would never have an animal that couldn't be treated that way. But they also know that I am their owner, and their leader, and they cannot act aggressively toward anyone. So does that - occasionally - require that I exert my dominance? Yes, of course, same as it does with a young child, using language that they can understand and respect. As soon as the moment of discipline is passed, and for all the times they are behaving correctly they get enormous doses of love & affection.

Telling the OP to come down firmly on aggressive behaviour does not make me cruel or unloving, that makes me a responsible dog owner.

DBB

happyclapper wrote: »

We have a 6 month old westie. He is a little cranky at the best of times but also very loving. The only thing we are walking him he growls, barks and runs at any other peson we meet along the road. He is on the leash so we pull him back and tell him its bold. But dont want to be making a scene in front of the people.

How do we deal with that? Any tips?

Hi OP,
I've had the pleasure of owning and handling one or two Westies over the years;), and one thing I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt is this: you cannot negotiate with a Westie. You will lose:p. Indeed, using any of the dominance-based training techniques will get you bitten by a Westie, because they do not take that sort of handling lying down, and this in itself shows up one of the major flaws of taking a dominance approach to training. When terriers are worried about something, they are hard-wired to make noise and act bombastically: this makes people think they are inherently aggressive, when in fact, the terrier is actually quite worried. Remember that terriers were designed to take on formidable foe, they cannot afford to show fear even when they're really scared, and that's why they are the way they are. So, whilst you might think your westie pup is being cranky, in fact, the strong likelihood is that he's acting like he is because he's really unsure of what's about to happen.

Personally, I prefer to look upon my relationship with my dogs as one of parentship. It is my job to teach them, to steer their behaviour to where I want it to be, to reward them when they get things right, and to GENTLY let them know when they get things wrong. So yes, I suppose I am their "leader", but I am a benevolent leader, and I don't resort to showing any dog who's boss whent he dog is misbehaving. Chances are, if he's misbehaving, it's because I've missed something in his training, or haven't read the warning signs that he's worried about something. So I go back to the drawing board.. I certainly don't take my failings out on the dog!

The dominance approach does not really do "gently" when it comes to correcting bad behaviour, and it can do real harm when a dog does not quickly hide his bad behaviour when more harshly punished... and that's all he would be doing, is hiding the bad behaviour. When a dog is acting aggressively in situations like you describe, in the VAST majority of cases, the dog is actually bricking himself... so you can imagine that punitive training only worsens the fear, and ultimately makes the behaviour worse.

And that's where the dominance training falls flat on it's face. These techniques try to stop the behaviour by making the dog afraid to carry out the behaviour, but they do not get rid of the underlying fear.

Trained behaviourists, on the other hand, devote the training to addressing the underlying emotional problems. You simply can't ethically and effectively get rid of aggressive behaviour without properly addressing the underlying emotions which are maintaining the behaviour.

So, no shouting, no leash jerks, no pulling, no feeding your Westie's fear. Instead, you need to implement a new regime whereby the little fella can watch people from afar without having to react due to proximity, whilst you do some simple training with him with yummy rewards. As he starts to learn how to behave around people at a distance (or anything else he's reacting towards), you gradually close that distance, until ultimately, you have people feeding him yummy treats. People who give yummy treats= yippee! to dogs, but you need to convince him gradually.
Would you consider getting a behaviourist in to help, and to explain and show you how to implement a kind and effective training program? If you get the right person in, you could just be amazed at what you learn about your Westie, and how to get the best out of him generally. It would be money well spent!

Ahhh Westies. Gotta love them and hate them all at the same time:D

ButtersSuki

Mauree Byrne of The Westie Rescue http://www.westierescue.ie/and Dogs Behaving Badly http://www.dogsbehavingbadly.ie/ is a behavioralist and a real Westie expert if you want to go down the training route.....I should have mentioned her earlier...apologies!

Contact details
http://www.dogsbehavingbadly.ie/contact.html

happyclapper

wow. Im totally overwhelmed with such lovely and helpful responses. I feel bad about it all in a way because he is only a puppy and we make allowances but then its also a fear to allow bad behaviour as we are afraid it will make a habit of it all. I guess the crooks of it all are that we love him and want to be the best owners we can for him and feel like we do more reprimanding of him than actually giving him the love we got him to give iykwim.

I will get in contact with those behavioural specialists as I dont want to do shouting or any other agressive reprepands. We just cant do that. So at least if we get help it will show us what to do.

I agree. You gotta love him... But he does test our patience!

I am in Cork btw.

Latatian

It all depends on how much of a looper you want to look like.

A friend of mine found with a small terrier mix that the more she scolded the more the dog barked. Dog went up the wall, barking, screaming, lunging at the end of the leash etc depending on how 'scary' the other dog was. You could hear it coming a mile away.
But she found talking in a nice happy relaxed voice worked very well. In one walk the dog went from screaming, to trotting along quietly, if a bit unsure. All she had to do was talk from when the dog first saw the person, and the dog took the hint and relaxed a bit. Amazing results.


The next problem was how to deal with being that lady walking the handbag-sized dog while going "Oh yes dog, nice dog, look at the nice person walking past..." continuously. That one might be harder to cope with.

barbiegirl

Treats and lots of them. Get friendly strangers to give him them if he sits, give him treats when he meets dogs, people, everything he's afraid of. It worked for our jack Russell well for everything but cats and birds :-)