The People's Fault or The bank's?

GarIT

Who do you think is responsible for the crash? The banks that lent more money than could be repaid or the people that took more money than they could afford to pay back. I say the people, I've had enough of the blame the banks crap. The banks only took advantage of the greed of the general Irish public.

MrJoeSoap

It's your fault GarIT!

Redzer7

Mary Harney's.

woodoo

Government, the people, banks, the people, developers, the people, media, the people.

LilyCricket

Greedy people who had big hats instead of a pair of knickers on

Ronin247

Government. They were supposed to regulate the banks so this sh*t didnt happen to the people.

marozz

Both!

mikemac1

GarIT wrote: »

Who do you think is responsible for the crash?

You say crash
I say house prices returning to normal

The_Kew_Tour

Anglo

galwayrush

People being 'stupid' paying market values at the time for their houses...:rolleyes:

LilyCricket

Ronin247 wrote: »

Government. They were supposed to regulate the banks so this sh*t didnt happen to the people.

come on, people are not that stupid :rolleyes:

and any that were, should really have had more cop on

GarIT

Everyday I hear "Oh but it was the bank managers fault, he told me what a great life I would have in my new 4 bed semi in Stillorgan all we had to do was get our self employed friend to pretend he employed my husband". It wrecks my head, these people blindly signed contracts without thinking about what they were getting into, they don't deserve sympathy.

later12

You're missing one: the government.

It takes two to tango.

But it takes three to boogie.

Redzer7

It's the chippers fault for the crash... three fiddy for a bag o' chips? Dafuq?

eth0

only a typical self-loathing paddy would blame the people

Born to Die

You would think that by now AH would have figured it all out. Is this the millionth thread on the subject?

GarIT

mikemac1 wrote: »

You say crash
I say house prices returning to normal

I actually do agree. But if you are speeding an hit a wall its a crash not your speed returning to normal.

mikemac1

Redzer7 wrote: »

It's the chippers fault for the crash... three fiddy for a bag o' chips? Dafuq?

The Italians so

Kick them out :mad:

LilyCricket

Redzer7 wrote: »

It's the chippers fault for the crash... three fiddy for a bag o' chips? Dafuq?

dunno where you buying your chips, mah lord

I blame pitbulls

Born to Die

bluewolf wrote: »

I blame pitbulls

As a wolf would.

Redzer7

mikemac1 wrote: »

The Italians so

Kick them out :mad:

Ship them all out the feck!

LilyCricket wrote: »

dunno where you buying your chips, mah lord

Three fiddy, two fiddy, one fiddy, the price differs but for what?
A cooked potato!

Agricola

Blaming the people is bullshít. And i say that as someone who has never had a mortgage. People will do whatever they can if given the chance. The whole point of a functioning system of government and banking is to reign in the excesses that people would otherwise try to get into. Its the banks job to give people mortgages they can afford and not to simply chase the mighty buck at every opportunity.

GarIT

Just an idea I had while writing on another thread. The bank managers were fully honest about mortgages, every detail of the mortgage was displayed in the contract. It was the people that asked "Which page do I skip to so I can sign this?".

LilyCricket

Agricola wrote: »

Blaming the people is bullshít. And i say that as someone who has never had a mortgage. People will do whatever they can if given the chance. The whole point of a functioning system of government and banking is to reign in the excesses that people would otherwise try to get into. Its the banks job to give people mortgages they can afford and not to simply chase the mighty buck at every opportunity.

Nanny state much?

No thanks, I'll make my own mind up thanks

mikemac1

Bertie resigns as Taoiseach........a few months later the downturn begins

Coincidence???
I think not
I even hear he's available to give lectures on how to create a successful economy

The very man we need :cool:

Where To

People are stupid.

Even smart ones.

Here endeth the lesson.

Agricola

LilyCricket wrote: »

Nanny state much?

No thanks, I'll make my own mind up thanks

Thats the point. The general populous arent capable of making the correct choices, hence the need for regulation that works

GarIT

Agricola wrote: »

Blaming the people is bullshít. And i say that as someone who has never had a mortgage. People will do whatever they can if given the chance. The whole point of a functioning system of government and banking is to reign in the excesses that people would otherwise try to get into. Its the banks job to give people mortgages they can afford and not to simply chase the mighty buck at every opportunity.

The law's view on what a signature means is that "A signature declares that the signee has fully read, understood and agreed to the contents of the document."

If you read, understand and agree to something how is it anyone else's fault when it goes wrong?

Arnold Layne

Neither, it's all Santa Claus' fault for making kids want more

aquaman

This >

Ronin247 wrote: »

Government. They were supposed to regulate the banks so this sh*t didnt happen to the people.

You can't blame bankers or developers (except those who broke the law) for the crash. They did what they exist to do... ie. make as much money as possibly allowed by the system that is in place.

Who put the system in place?..

Government (some would say they put the system in place to suit their buddies in banking and building)!

Who put the government in place?..

The people!

or at least the majority who were stupid enough to vote for a parties with publicised grubby links to builders bankers and a leader who didn't know where he got his money or keep it in the bank.

So the answer is: the people who voted FF keeping them in power for 15 years. And of course those who had a right to vote over the same period but didn't care enough about their country to use it are to blame for the crash.

LilyCricket

Agricola wrote: »

Thats the point. The general populous arent capable of making the correct choices, hence the need for regulation that works

I have yet to make a mistake I can blame on the government

Thank God.

Frank Black

When I got a mortgage I worked out how much I'd be comfortable repaying, spoke to the bank and then looked for a house in that price range.

I get the impression, that a lot of my friends and colleagues, asked the bank how much they could borrow and then looked at houses for that price.

So basically, the banks lent recklessly to people who borrowed recklessly.

battle_hardend

GarIT wrote: »

Who do you think is responsible for the crash? The banks that lent more money than could be repaid or the people that took more money than they could afford to pay back. I say the people, I've had enough of the blame the banks crap. The banks only took advantage of the greed of the general Irish public.

the state sector for not regulating the banks properly

Ronin247

LilyCricket wrote: »

come on, people are not that stupid :rolleyes:

and any that were, should really have had more cop on

Unfortunately people are that stupid.History has proved it repeatedly.

We elect governments to look after this type of crap,the fact that they turn out to be irresponsible and lie and cheat and f*ck the people is no shock to me.The Banks are completely out of this equation,it is either the government or the people who elected them and that is a chicken and egg scenario as far as I see.

token101

I think it's a fair to say it was a collective f*** up

LilyCricket

Ronin247 wrote: »

Unfortunately people are that stupid.History has proved it repeatedly.

We elect governments to look after this type of crap,the fact that they turn out to be irresponsible and lie and cheat and f*ck the people is no shock to me.The Banks are completely out of this equation,it is either the government or the people who elected them and that is a chicken and egg scenario as far as I see.

Fair enough.

They have to take some responsibility however, this whole blaming it on others gets on my wick

coolbeans

eth0 wrote: »

only a typical self-loathing paddy would blame the people

You've just displayed the lack of critical thinking that makes people like me an SLP as you term it.
The blame for the situation Ireland finds itself in lies with the banks who lent irresponsibly, the government who failed to regulate them and yes, many, many people who borrowed irresponsibly, and more seriously, who sanctioned this by voting in a populist government that couldn't and wouldn't govern. This style of governing suited a huge proportion of the electorate despite their obvious shenanigans and inability to take tough decisions. the recent scandals re the planning system are only the tip of the iceberg and attempts to clean it up were greeted with derision by huge numbers of ordinary folk many of whom are suffering now. The fact that people like yourself can't or won't recognise this saddens me personally and guarantees that we are doomed to repeat this in the future if the Germans don't take control of the purse strings. to continue denying the truth is simply immature.

im invisible

Let the people look after themselves and let the banks look after themselves,,, oh, wait

im invisible

And blaming the people for voting for the government? They're the guys who are meant to have a clue, meant to know what they're doing, i never pretended to have a clue

aquaman

im invisible wrote: »

And blaming the people for voting for the government? They're the guys who are meant to have a clue, meant to know what they're doing, i never pretended to have a clue

Who says their meant to??

Any ejit can stand for election. And a lot of ejits get elected. I say it takes a fool to elect a fool.

true

battle_hardend wrote: »

the state sector for not regulating the banks properly

+1. And the government for encouraging people to invest in section 23 and section 27 tax incentive properties for their pensions, and to create a bigger stock of modern designed / constructed properties for the rental market. And the govt for continually extending the deadlines for the extingushment of such tax incentives. People were encouraged to provide for their future and invest in property and create jobs. People in many areas around the country were assured "decentralisation" would happen and people would come to occupipy these properties.

coolbeans

im invisible wrote: »

And blaming the people for voting for the government? They're the guys who are meant to have a clue, meant to know what they're doing, i never pretended to have a clue

So ignorance is your defence? Makes sense I suppose.

Frank Black

true wrote: »

+1. And the government for encouraging people to invest in section 23 and section 27 tax incentive properties for their pensions, and to create a bigger stock of modern designed / constructed properties for the rental market. And the govt for continually extending the deadlines for the extingushment of such tax incentives. People were encouraged to provide for their future and invest in property and create jobs. People in many areas around the country were assured "decentralisation" would happen and people would come to occupipy these properties.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the number of people who took out a mortgage because of a decentralisation promise to be approximately 0.01%.

Some people will look for any reason to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

im invisible

I never voted either, so...

true

black francis wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the number of people who took out a mortgage because of a decentralisation promise to be approximately 0.01%.

you would be surprised in some counties how much people were fooled;) by the government hype and by the government sponsored schemes ( section 23 ) in such designated area / disadvantaged counties to provide accopmodation for such people.

R0ot

Missing a "both" option.

Royal Legend

Enda said it wasn't our fault, we were not to blame..

Although he whispered to the EU afterwards that it was our fault

true

our politicians in this country do not know their ars from their elbow, that and their greed is why we got in to the mess.

LilyCricket

my personal opinion


you gotta suck it up

aquaman

black francis wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that the number of people who took out a mortgage because of a decentralisation promise to be approximately 0.01%.

Some people will look for any reason to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

OK leaving out the decentralisation thing. Which may have caused a lot of houses to be constructed in small rural towns if not purchased. ..

What are these actions people should take responsibility for?

Things like saving for years to afford the deposit on house.
Rushing to buy a house at a time when although expensive prices were rising by 10%+ p.a.
This coupled by the vast majority of the "experts" including those lending the money and all political parties saying that there would be a deceleration and eventual "soft landing" of house prices. A "10 - 15% correction at most" was the mantra even when things were looking quite bleak.

It is understandable that in these conditions a lot of people who at the time had good incomes purchased homes for themselves.

Even the few voices in the wilderness predicting a property crash didn't predict its magnitude.

People who bought houses in these conditions are in frightening numbers of cases now in severe financial difficulty, with un-saleable houses and not the means to pay for them (often due to unforseen wage cuts/ job losses).

These people surely deserve at least sympathy for their hardships.