Mulherin's 'fornication' statements described as primitive

finisklin

Hot off the press......


"There is a certain liberal element in the press that would like to shut me up. Not everyone -- I would like to acknowledge that some sections of the press have been fair. But there are others who want to pigeon-hole me or shut me up.

From here

When in a hole why can't she stop digging?

nuac

She is right about some of the press - many of them dont like plain speaking which does not fit their agenda and worldview

Jim2007

nuac wrote: »

She is right about some of the press - many of them dont like plain speaking which does not fit their agenda and worldview

"I agree with the separation of church and State but for me as an individual I cannot separate my religious side. I don't think my being elected requires me to,"


Here is my problem, I've no idea what she means! How can she agree with the separation of church and state while at the same time saying it does not apply to her, all in the same breath... It is just plain silly!

And reading back over the Dail record, there are plenty more examples of this kind of contradiction and misunderstanding of the topics being discussed.

I think Mayo deserves better.

porsche boy

last comment on this. I have clicked 'unfollow' because this thread is going around in circles and to be honest some peoples views on here belong in the last century.

There are two very different points of view on this thread, mine is that I dont want any elected politician to quote god to me, it is wasted breath as I would consider myself agnostic. But surely it's more offensive again to people who have different religious beliefs to her's. If you heard a politician waxing lyrical about allah and his attitude toward women, how would you feel?

On it's most basic level I want my politicians to be politically motivated, not motivated by their religious beliefs. I know it's a big ask in this religiously bias country but you dont hear mechanic's talking about electrical current. that's the way I see it.

finisklin

Trust The Sun to pick up on Calleary sticking the 'fornication' knife into MM, in the Dail of all places. Priceless. No love lost there, fornication or not.

From here

nuac

Politicians should stop trying to be comedians.

They are funny enough just being politicians

golden lane

if there is proof that a politicians religious belief's is the cause of biased judgements.......they should be made to stand down...........

their job is to represent all of their constituants.....not themself's..............

nuac

golden lane wrote: »

if there is proof that a politicians religious belief's is the cause of biased judgements.......they should be made to stand down...........

their job is to represent all of their constituants.....not themself's..............

Judgements are for judges.

this is still a predominently Christian country. I have no problems about a politician applying Christian values in their work

smithcity

nuac wrote: »

Judgements are for judges.

this is still a predominently Christian country. I have no problems about a politician applying Christian values in their work

Are you suggesting this should be a theocracy based on the dominant religion of the population, or are those just random words that happened to form a legible sentence?

Mickeroo

nuac wrote: »

Judgements are for judges.

this is still a predominently Christian country. I have no problems about a politician applying Christian values in their work

Depends on which values they want to apply in fairness, some christian values belong firmly in the dark ages.

HarryPotter41

golden lane wrote: »

if there is proof that a politicians religious belief's is the cause of biased judgements.......they should be made to stand down...........

their job is to represent all of their constituants.....not themself's..............

All politicians have views that are in disagreement with the views of the voters, that is why it is up to the voter to choose who they vote for. I consider a religious belief to be no different than any other belief they may have, you don't like their belief you vote for someone else.

smithcity

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

All politicians have views that are in disagreement with the views of the voters, that is why it is up to the voter to choose who they vote for. I consider a religious belief to be no different than any other belief they may have, you don't like their belief you vote for someone else.

In a predominantly christian society, non-christians don't have the option to vote for someone else. Conversely, a non-christian voter would have to be as narrow minded as Mulherin to vote for somebody purely because of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof)

You'll notice that these politicians tend to keep quiet about religious matters near election time, for fear of alienating voters.
If she's going to push a christian agenda in government, she should campaign on that premise, rather than sneak it in the back door.

HarryPotter41

smithcity wrote: »

In a predominantly christian society, non-christians don't have the option to vote for someone else. Conversely, a non-christian voter would have to be as narrow minded as Mulherin to vote for somebody purely because of their religious beliefs (or lack thereof)

You'll notice that these politicians tend to keep quiet about religious matters near election time, for fear of alienating voters.
If she's going to push a christian agenda in government, she should campaign on that premise, rather than sneak it in the back door.

So of all the TD's in Mayo how many have espoused views since the last election that are inherently Christian? Again you balance all their viewpoints and pick the one closest to your ENTIRE belief system. I am anti abortion but if I lived in the US I would vote Democrat because overall their beliefs reflect mine and would moot their pro choice stance.

smithcity

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

So of all the TD's in Mayo how many have espoused views since the last election that are inherently Christian? Again you balance all their viewpoints and pick the one closest to your ENTIRE belief system...

You're basically just repeating a skewed version of my point.

Ellis Dee

I would have thought we have quite enough old biddies in bodies like the Legion of Mary and plenty of old fogeys in the church going on about things like that.:rolleyes:

Our TDs are paid (far too much) to look after the economy, health services, education, criminality, the environment, potholes and things like that, not to make themselves - and by extension the whole country - look backward and silly.

It's a bit of an embarrassment to read about her in "this strange world" columns of Nordic newspapers and magazines, where they have a hearty laugh at this anorexic-looking relatively young woman who is talking like a medieval Bible and present her as yet another example of Irish whimsy, from the land of Father Ted, moving statues, poteen and leprechauns.:pac:

Anyway, she'll be out on her ear at the next election, so it doesn't really matter what bible-thumping trip she's on. Most sensible people will just have a good giggle at her and hope she soon gets a life.:D:D

HarryPotter41

smithcity wrote: »

You're basically just repeating a skewed version of my point.

Love you to expalin how?

dlofnep

nuac wrote: »

Judgements are for judges.

this is still a predominently Christian country. I have no problems about a politician applying Christian values in their work

Does that include calling for the death penalty for someone who works on the Sabbath, and stoning of homosexuals? What about legalisation of slavery? All Christian values.

smithcity

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Love you to expalin how?

A non-christian voter can't pick and choose who to vote for based on their religion, or there would be slim to no pickings. They have to weigh each candidate on how they present themselves overall, and the party policies they promote.

The problem arises when the candidate gets elected and decides to do a solo run, pushing a conservative christian agenda that is not representative of the campaign under which she was elected. It's dishonest, exclusionary and unmandated.

dlofnep wrote: »

Does that include calling for the death penalty for someone who works on the Sabbath, and stoning of homosexuals? What about legalisation of slavery? All Christian values.

No no no, it only includes the bits they've decided to remember.

finisklin

I think politicans attitude to religion and the catholic church in particular is changing, and quite fast as well. Look at Inda outburst in the Dail when he rebuked the church for their approach to child sex abuse. On top of that the closure of the embassy in the vatican sent out a massive signel. Maybe MM is tapping into this?

Harry, I think that you'll find the Republican party in the states has a harder line on abortion than democrats.

HarryPotter41

finisklin wrote: »

I think politicans attitude to religion and the catholic church in particular is changing, and quite fast as well. Look at Inda outburst in the Dail when he rebuked the church for their approach to child sex abuse. On top of that the closure of the embassy in the vatican sent out a massive signel. Maybe MM is tapping into this?

Harry, I think that you'll find the Republican party in the states has a harder line on abortion than democrats.

I know they do, but I find every single one of their other policies reprehensible so I would be a Democratic supporter as despite being pro life I would be in alignment with all their other policies. I really don't think the politician or political party exists that everyone would be in agreement with on everything. Thats the point I am making.

nuac

dlofnep wrote: »

Does that include calling for the death penalty for someone who works on the Sabbath, and stoning of homosexuals? What about legalisation of slavery? All Christian values.

In my part of Mayo none of those incidents have happened for many many generations.

I was thinking more of the biblical advice - do unto others as you would they would do unto you ( or something like that )

Mr. Presentable

She's not wrong, and it would seem she speaks from experience. Ye ought to listen :pac:

HarryPotter41

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

She's not wrong, and it would seem she speaks from experience. Ye ought to listen :pac:

What could you possibly be suggesting????

finisklin

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

What could you possibly be suggesting????

Holier than thou?

dlofnep

nuac wrote: »

In my part of Mayo none of those incidents have happened for many many generations.

I was thinking more of the biblical advice - do unto others as you would they would do unto you ( or something like that )

They are still Christian values, irrespective of how you swing it.

Oldtree

You do not have to be a christian to have values or morals, nor does the bible have a moral authority.

qrrgprgua

Oldtree wrote: »

You do not have to be a christian to have values or morals, nor does the bible have a moral authority.

No, But just because you are a Christian does not mean that you have to mute you beliefs when you are a Politician.

What are the Morals and Values that are the Alternate to Christian ones? What are the values that you young people have to look up to when the are deciding on who they will be and what they are?

Its a open question.. I am not saying Christian values are the only ones to live your life against. But for many families there is a complete lack of values. .. Or are we just to let the Tallafornia generation get their values from TV..

Mickeroo

qrrgprgua wrote: »

No, But just because you are a Christian does not mean that you have to mute you beliefs when you are a Politician.

What are the Morals and Values that are the Alternate to Christian ones? What are the values that you young people have to look up to when the are deciding on who they will be and what they are?

I dare say you would be reacting differently if she was trying to impose fundamentalist muslim ideals into politics.

Having said that I have no problem with a politician being openly christian but they should have the cop on to keep that side out of their work. Regardless of how the constitution is worded, in terms of our government Ireland is a secular state, has been for quite some time and our politicians should adhere to that regardless of whether they're christian, muslim, atheist or anything else.

As for alternate moral values to christian ones, well the core values you're talking about (i.e. the nice ones I'm guessing ) are core to many of the major religions because they are at the end of the day, human values. Christians don't have a monopoly on morals and people had moral values for thousands of years before christianity was around, these have changed over time of course and continue to do so, this is part of the reason Mulherin's remarks seemed so archaic.

Oldtree

Nor do you need a religion to have moral values. religion per say does not own the copyright to moral values, nor to moral guidance. Lead by example I say.

Where does that leave us when Cardinal Brady did not follow through? It appears that he allowed cannon law and its dictats and implicit defference to overide common law or even common morals for that matter.

qrrgprgua

Mickeroo wrote: »

As for alternate moral values to christian ones, well the core values you're talking about (i.e. the nice ones I'm guessing ) are core to many of the major religions because they are at the end of the day, human values. Christians don't have a monopoly on morals and people had moral values for thousands of years before christianity was around, these have changed over time of course and continue to do so, this is part of the reason Mulherin's remarks seemed so archaic.

Nobody is saying Christianity has the monopoly on values in Ireland. Certainly Mulherin didn't. She voiced an alternative opinion on the root cause of why 4000+ women (75% of which as under 30) go to the UK for an abortion. What is wrong with saying that love and sex should be part of a committed relationship in which children are conceived? If you ask any woman who has had an abortion, do they regret have sex resulting in conception you would be interested in know that many say they would have done things differently.

Its not about making people holy Christians... Its voicing an alternate opinion to that which goes around. Your actions have consequences... Sex has a deeper meaning than just one night stands.


Archaic...?? I see many people quote for archaic practices to suit themselves.. Norris would quote archaic Greek practices of men have sex with boys to suit his views on sexuality and the Irish median indulges his views.. Nobody calls what he says archaic.

Many people have lived this lives being in love with their soul mate, having children together and raising a family.. Just because Christian values say sex within marriage is right,, does not mean that if you are not a believer or not a Christian that Christian values and morals are wrong.. Because what society offers today as the alternate does not seem to be working.
Ireland may be less religious today.. But we have an all time high Suicide rate... Higher health issues related to Drugs/Alcohol than ever. I great secular society with its secular values is doing a great job..