Why are alcoholics idolised in this country?

ForeverYoung90

Saw Paul McGrath on the late late last night and what a gentleman he is.He was so well spoken and is clearly a naturally shy person.Although he was just before my time I can appreciate that he was a seriously talented footballer.
He is very clear in the fact that he was/is:o an alcoholic.But although he has his problems he is looked up to as a hero by so many people ala George Best,Eminem,Eric Clapton etc.Just got me thinking.

aidan_walsh

I don't recall too many people being looked up to because of the fact that they are alcoholics. Should all other achievements be forgotten because they have a drinking problem?

dirtyden

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Saw Paul McGrath on the late late last night and what a gentleman he is.He was so well spoken and is clearly a naturally shy person.Although he was just before my time I can appreciate that he was a seriously talented footballer.
He is very clear in the fact that he was/is:o an alcoholic.But although he has his problems he is looked up to as a hero by so many people ala George Best,Eminem,Eric Clapton etc.Just got me thinking.

Paul McGrath is looked up to because he is one of the greatest sportsmen Ireland has ever produced, not because of his drink problems.

Silly example and silly thread.

jaffacakesyum

They're not idolised FOR being alcoholics though. They're idolised for different reasons, and they just happen to be alcoholics.

ForeverYoung90

dirtyden wrote: »

Paul McGrath is looked up to because he is one of the greatest sportsmen Ireland has ever produced, not because of his drink problems.

Silly example and silly thread.

Can I just quickly respond to that.Many would say Kevin Moran was equally as good as McGrath.I believe his troubles off the field cemented his ledgenary status.

Agricola

OP, I see the point your trying to make. It doesnt apply to Paul Mcgrath though. There was a certain mystique and star quality to G Best due to his heavy drinking and womanising, but first and foremost it was his football that made people pay attention to him.

themadchef

It got you thinking we look up to Paul because he was a savage drinker?

jimthemental

They are idolised for other achievements. I don't think McGrath was ever supported for the things he did while drunk, which were crazy to be honest. Shane MacGowan isn't famous and loved by so many for his drinking, it's because he is a very talented songwriter, same goes for Clapton.

My name is URL

Addiction is the new cocaine

Caraville

We idolise them because of their talents in other areas beyond drinking.

Unfortunately, it's those talents that often end up driving them towards alcohol as a coping mechanism.

Sunnyisland

Its more to do with there celebrity status than there alcoholism,But having an addiction does get the medias and peoples attention,People love to see people fall down and get back up.

Superbus

My name is URL wrote: »

Addiction is the new cocaine

Sure I'm addicted right now, and loving it.

Chuck Stone

Paul McGrath cannot be spoken of with ill will.

A pox upon the houses of all who speak of The Great One with ill will.

Kylo Ren

Why are alcoholics idolised in this country? They're not. They're idolised for what they do. eg. Paul McGrath was idolised for being a great footballer, who happened to also be an alco.

It's like saying Lance Armstrong was idolised for having cancer. No he was idolised for being a great cyclist who happened to have Cancer.

Clareman

I don't think we idolize alcoholics, in fact of the 4 people you mentioned 3 aren't from "this country", I would like to think that we appreciate talented people who overcome difficulties to get to the top of their profession, sometimes we might even resent people who seem to have everything come to them easy.

Bob the Seducer

Paul was one of the finest footballers this country ever produced, that's why people look up to him, not because of his personal problems/alcoholism.

I don't think you'll find any George Best fan who thinks:

"Good man yourself George, destroyed your liver with booze, got a transplant, couldn't stop yourself from doing it again and put yourself in an early grave"

Again, his ability as a footballer was what made him something special not his ability as a drinker. I'd prefer if he never drank, achieved twice as much in his career and was still with us today. Paul is still here, and I hope he continues to be for a long time to come.

I know the angle you're coming at this from, the whole George Best, Ollie Reed, Shane McGowan - legendary hellraiser thing. The vast majority of fans of these people wouldn't want to live with them, nor would they want to live with a family member who behaved in a similar fashion. That suggests it isn't the alcoholism that is the main attraction.

dirtyden

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Can I just quickly respond to that.Many would say Kevin Moran was equally as good as McGrath.I believe his troubles off the field cemented his ledgenary status.

I dont think even Kevin Moran's mum would say that.

Kevin Moran was a good centre half, Paul McGrath was a great centre half, however that is a discussion for the soccer thread.

ForeverYoung90

aidan_walsh wrote: »

I don't recall too many people being looked up to because of the fact that they are alcoholics. Should all other achievements be forgotten because they have a drinking problem?

If Paul McGrath was a a great footballer and clean living person all his life and Kevin Moran was the well known great footballer and alcoholic then would the legenday status be reversed?

mickrock

Paul McGrath is/was one of Ireland's greatest alcoholics.

philstar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_Dcl2aUzsc

oranbhoy67

eminem was a bit of a random inclusion !

Fromthetrees

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

If Paul McGrath was a a great footballer and clean living person all his life and Kevin Moran was the well known great footballer and alcoholic then would the legenday status be reversed?

We love football in Ireland, he was a legend (see below), IMO he won us the game against Italy IN '94 (not even the eventual winners Brazil beat them in normal time and needed penalties). Ronnie Whelan was on the Saturday night show tonight (another Ireland legend but NOT an alcoholic).
First time Ireland are in an international competition in 10 years, expect alot of the soccer legends of the past wheeled out. Why not?
Oh and Ray Houghtan is on ****ing Harvey Norman ads every ****ing day. I'm so annoyed with you I wish I was after a few drinks.

LEGEND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ObXxJ6tfnk

Rhys Essien

OP,this is a bit of a silly thread.

Paul McGrath was idolised because he was a great footballer.

I can safely say that I wasnt even aware that Paul was fond of the bottle in his playing days.

Had I known,was I suddenly supposed to think less of his ability on the field?

bnt

Maybe "idolize" is the wrong word, but I do think that talent gets excessive drinkers a "free pass". I'm reminded of playwright Brendan Behan, who got laughs by describing himself as a "drinker with a writing problem". He died at 41, of drink-related problems, while drinking. :rolleyes:

celticcrash

Some times we like our heros flawed like ourselves.

philstar

there's always been a curious admiration for the hard drinkers in this country...

fellas that can hold down ten pints without a bother

Matt Talbot, Brendan Behan, Richard Harris, George Best, Alex Higgins, Shane McGowan, Ronnie Drew, The Fureys etc etc

Drink!!!! *hiccup*

Wild Bill

We are all chemical animals.

Think your endorphins are a product of God?

Your work, relationships, health, luck, food, drink - including alcohol - all impact on your neural/physical being in myriad ways.

Don't get too anal about **** - it's a sign of lack of perspective :cool:

Birdie086

Sure isn't Ireland disneyland for alcoholics

philstar

we even name bridges after mentally ill alcoholics

matt talbot

bnt

Reading a bit more about Behan: it wasn't just Ireland where he his drinking were accepted. In 1956 he appeared on a TV talk show in the UK, drunk, and not only did that go down well with the audience, he made a new friend in another guest, American comedian Jackie Gleason.

Even before then, the "drunken Irishman" was seen as a harmless stereotype: I recently watched the film Bringing Up Baby (1938), which included respected actor Barry Fitzgerald as an Irish gardener who was hiding flasks of whiskey in the stables. :rolleyes:

DEFTLEFTHAND

Not Irish I know but I idolised Oliver Reed and Keith Moon in my youth and I grew up to be a heavy drinker, is there a connection there somewhere, did I aspire to become something awful?

Wild Bill

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I am drinking atm could you put that in layman terms please?

Bottoms up!

charlemont

Paul McGrath is still fondly remembered in Carrigaline, It was some moment when he appeared in Rosies with another Carrigaline favourite "Follow the box".

Wild Bill

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

You think your the sh&t with your smart ass answer dont you?Well you are a sad man.

I thought you were being humorous.

If you have a problem with drink, then apologies.

Balmed Out

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

If Paul McGrath was a a great footballer and clean living person all his life and Kevin Moran was the well known great footballer and alcoholic then would the legenday status be reversed?

No as good a player as Moran was Mcgrath was better, for Ireland anyhow imo. Probably the best performer in the charlton years. Put in some amazing performances in a green jersey. Most of our better results against top opposition had a lot to do with McGrath's defending.

ForeverYoung90

Wild Bill wrote: »

I thought you were being humorous.

If you have a problem with drink, then apologies.

I was being stupid sorry for that reply man.:o

token101

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

Saw Paul McGrath on the late late last night and what a gentleman he is.He was so well spoken and is clearly a naturally shy person.Although he was just before my time I can appreciate that he was a seriously talented footballer.
He is very clear in the fact that he was/is:o an alcoholic.But although he has his problems he is looked up to as a hero by so many people ala George Best,Eminem,Eric Clapton etc.Just got me thinking.

Think harder next time.