Is Mourinho the best manager of modern times?

Where To

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

cgpg5

Where To wrote: »

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

Got us to champs league too! Legend

dreamers75

Where To wrote: »

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

cgpg5 wrote: »

Got us to champs league too! Legend

nearly is the key word there.

Happy Monday

Always lukewarm on Ferguson and his achievements.

Always had the big cheque book out to buy Rooney, Ferdinand and others.

Jose to win leagues in 4 different countries so young and multiple CLs is the greatest.

Fuhrer

Happy Monday wrote: »

Always lukewarm on Ferguson and his achievements.

Always had the big cheque book out to buy Rooney, Ferdinand and others.

Jose to win leagues in 4 different countries so young and multiple CLs is the greatest.

Youre lukewarm on Fergie because hes always had lots of money but not of Jose?

monkey9

Happy Monday wrote: »

Always lukewarm on Ferguson and his achievements.

Always had the big cheque book out to buy Rooney, Ferdinand and others.

Jose to win leagues in 4 different countries so young and multiple CLs is the greatest.

This is a good post! I don't believe Ferguson could have been a success at Barca, Madrid etc! He found his club!

Mourinho on the other hand could make it anywhere!!

dfx-

It is Mourinho's first win at the Nou Camp as far as I can think...at about 15-20 attempts with three clubs. It's one win...he needs to do it more often than that.

He also left Inter in a genuine quagmire that they're still in from his short-term outlook.

Fuhrer

monkey9 wrote: »

This is a good post! I don't believe Ferguson could have been a success at Barca, Madrid etc! He found his club!

Mourinho on the other hand could make it anywhere!!

Really, you think hed win it with Stoke?

dundalkfc10

dreamers75 wrote: »

nearly is the key word there.

Happy Monday

monkey9 wrote: »

Happy Monday wrote: »

Always lukewarm on Ferguson and his achievements.

Always had the big cheque book out to buy Rooney, Ferdinand and others.

Jose to win leagues in 4 different countries so young and multiple CLs is the greatest.

This is a good post! I don't believe Ferguson could have been a success at Barca, Madrid etc! He found his club!

Mourinho on the other hand could make it anywhere!!

Exactly.

Not sure Fergie throwing cups at players in his Govan drawl would work in Milan or Madrid.

To be honest Arsene Wenger is a greater coach.

Jose, Arsene and Pep would be my top choices.

RoryMac

Where To wrote: »

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

How does getting beat in a World Cup semi final = nearly winning it??

No doubt Robson was a good manager but England were nowhere near winning what was one of the worst World cups in terms of quality

Happy Monday

RoryMac wrote: »

Where To wrote: »

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

How does getting beat in a World Cup semi final = nearly winning it??

No doubt Robson was a good manager but England were nowhere near winning what was one of the worst World cups in terms of quality

They did get beat on penalties by the team that won it.

Dont know how you can say that!

Not one of the great managers for all that though.

Mr. Presentable

Mourinho, yeah, or maybe Capello.

Ferguson doesn't work for me because he never tested himself with a club outside Britain - never had to learn a language or experience a new culture. He should be rightly lauded for his success in Scotland but the very thing so many use to disqualify other managers and clubs is what worked to his advantage in England - most money, most fans.

Also depends on what OP means by "modern times". Last decade, this century, since the back pass rule was introduced? Clough better than all aforementioned IMO.

IvySlayer

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Mourinho, yeah, or maybe Capello.

Ferguson doesn't work for me because he never tested himself with a club outside Britain - never had to learn a language or experience a new culture. He should be rightly lauded for his success in Scotland but the very thing so many use to disqualify other managers and clubs is what worked to his advantage in England - most money, most fans.

Also depends on what OP means by "modern times". Last decade, this century, since the back pass rule was introduced? Clough better than all aforementioned IMO.

But Clough never tested himself outside of Britain either

Blatter

IvySlayer wrote: »

But Clough never tested himself outside of Britain either

And Ferguson hasn't had the most money to spend in England over the last 9 years either.

dreamers75

Blatter wrote: »

And Ferguson hasn't had the most money to spend in England over the last 9 years either.

just to be clear what United spent on players the club earned, no sugar daddy involved.


/not a united fan but needs to be posted.

joshrogan

I'd really like to see him take an international job, it'll probably be towards the end of his career that he takes one though

dreamers75

joshrogan wrote: »

I'd really like to see him take an international job, it'll probably be towards the end of his career that he takes one though

ireland ?

kitakyushu

I think Mourinho is the best. Sure he's had a lot of top clubs to work with but he's actually won stuff with them whereas other managers may have (and have) failed time and again with the same resources.

TBH during his first season with Real I never saw him closing the gap on Barca but he's increasingly proving that even that's not a bridge too far for him.

Hannibal

dreamers75 wrote: »

just to be clear what United spent on players the club earned, no sugar daddy involved.


/not a united fan but needs to be posted.

That's true but United have consistently been the biggest spenders and regularly breaking transfers records since around 1991 or 1992. Obviously City and Chelsea are off the radar with the levels of spending they done over a short period.

In terms of managers it's always difficult to say who is the best especially across generations.

Mourinho has spent a fortune at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid and had squads worth a hell of a lot more than his competitors and that always has to be in mind when saying he's the best.

I as a Liverpool fan might be biased towards Paisley over what he achieved in just 9 years or Shankly in terms of club building. Same as a United fan will shout for Busby or Ferguson. Clough has to be remembered as he achieved success with Derby and Forest.

Looking abroad you have Trapattoni then maybe Capello, Lippi or Hitzfeld. Guardiola and Cruyff achieved success and both built a footballing style that was beautiful on the eye or Benitez for twice winning the league with Valencia in the time of the Galacticos.

Mourinho has built a personality cult and a media fan club. I would love to see Mourinho come to a club where money isn't readily available for a wish list and see if he could then work his magic. I do think he has his eye on the Man City job next for the resources thats available.

Hank Scorpio

Dotsey wrote: »

Mourinho has spent a fortune at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid and had squads worth a hell of a lot more than his competitors and that always has to be in mind when saying he's the best.

Now trying to be smart but what fortune did he spend at inter? Also you omitted porto.

I would love to see Mourinho come to a club where money isn't readily available for a wish list and see if he could then work his magic. I do think he has his eye on the Man City job next for the resources thats available.

This relates to the earlier question I posted! Im honestly curious

Yakult

One of the managerial greats. Right now he is the best imo. Will be interesting to see where and if he settles or what he does next. Wonder would he go for a national side?

grenache

nuxxx wrote: »

In winning the league title for the fourth consecutive time, Inter joined Torino and Juventus as the only teams to do this and the first to accomplish this feat in the last 60 years.
.

4 consecutive Scudetti maybe, but lets look at the backdrop to how they were won. One of them was awarded to them due to the Calciopoli scandal after Juve were stripped of the title and demoted to Serie B. City rivals Milan were also hit with a significant points deduction due to their involvement in it.

So in terms of actually "winning" titles, it's really only 3 in 3 years for Inter. And that's with their two main rivals severely handicapped.

Now, i do agree with your sentiment in general about Mourinho, he did a great job at Inter, and can truly be labelled as the greatest manager of the modern era. But at the San Siro, he certainly had it easier than it would have been where it not for the fallout from Calciopoli.

grenache

Where To wrote: »

Does no one here remember Bobby Robson?
The man nearly won the world cup with a below average England side ffs!

I'll have to pull you on that one. That 1990 side was certainly not "below average". As England teams go it was probably the best they've had since '66. Gazza was in his prime, Lineker was one of the most consistent strikers in Europe, they had a very talented midfield that included Barnes, Platt, Waddle and Beardsley, as well as quite a solid back four too. They were certainly better than any team England has produced since the turn of the century. Robson was a great manager indeed, and did a good job with England, but you can't say he didn't have the players. I wouldn't have him in the top 10 managers list though! He's certainly not on a par with Mourinho, Fergie, Paisley, Clough, etc.

stovelid

Happy Monday wrote: »

Not sure Fergie throwing cups at players in his Govan drawl would work in Milan or Madrid.

I very much doubt he manages in this style these days.

I agree Jose is one of the great managers and the speed with which he moulds winning teams from big names is incredible. I do agree with the comment though that there seems to be a short term mental intensity about his teams that leaves them almost lost when he leaves and the next manager has to try and take over.

inmyday

Jose is the best. What a manager! He has done it in 4 countries. To win the champions league with inter and porto proves he is the best. And my money is on him to win it this year again.


He is like a genius, so clever, and he can speak so many languages(not sure how many). He is also a man management genius.

As a barca fan, it is not hard to say this. The man is the best, he deserves admiration from everyone.

speedboatchase

Yes. Silly to think anyone would disagree

jimjimjimmy

grenache wrote: »

4 consecutive Scudetti maybe, but lets look at the backdrop to how they were won. One of them was awarded to them due to the Calciopoli scandal after Juve were stripped of the title and demoted to Serie B. City rivals Milan were also hit with a significant points deduction due to their involvement in it.

So in terms of actually "winning" titles, it's really only 3 in 3 years for Inter. And that's with their two main rivals severely handicapped.

Now, i do agree with your sentiment in general about Mourinho, he did a great job at Inter, and can truly be labelled as the greatest manager of the modern era. But at the San Siro, he certainly had it easier than it would have been where it not for the fallout from Calciopoli.

It was actually 5 successive Scudetti, with Mourinho winning the last 2. After calciopoli and before Mourinho got there, Milan won a CL title, so its not like all the other teams were chumps. Calciopoli affects Mancini's legacy more than Mourinho's to be fair.

Mourinho clearly the best manager of modern times, if they win the CL along with La Liga this season he will be, for me, the best manager of all time.

Dubit10

daddydick wrote: »

SAF hands down, unquestionably the best manager of this generation and in my opinion will go down as the greatest football manager of all time.

Your having a laugh. Ferguson is great no doubt but the greatest ever? I would argue his return of only two European cups in a quarter of a century in charge of one the richest clubs in the world is pretty average tbh.

Mourinho as much as i dislike him is the best at the moment followed by Pep.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Yes, his European record coupled with his domestic one is second to none. No other current manager anyways can boast a similar record, other than maybe Pep, but he needs to maintain his trophy haul for another 5 years at least before they can be compared. Mourinho doing it in 4 of the top 6 leagues in the world though should give him the edge over anyone. If, however, Pep wins another 2/3 CL titles then he should be talked about on the same level as Mou.

kitakyushu

Incidentally (if he wins La Liga this year - which looks odds on now) will he be the first manager to have won the 'big 3' leagues? (England / Italy / Spain)?

Turtwig

I don't think so. I think that accolade goes to Guardiola. It'd be close, but I think the way Guardiola basically revolutionised so many established conventions in football should not be taken lightly.

Mourinho and Guardiola are to me the best managers to face the game. And in the tactical stakes going on head to heads Guardiola seems a cut above Mourinho.

Helix

Jernal wrote: »

I don't think so. I think that accolade goes to Guardiola. It'd be close, but I think the way Guardiola basically revolutionised so many established conventions in football should not be taken lightly.

Mourinho and Guardiola are to me the best managers to face the game. And in the tactical stakes going on head to heads Guardiola seems a cut above Mourinho.

if guardiola does the same thing again elsewhere, then maybe

otherwise he can't be classed as a modern great at all

G.K.

Helix wrote: »

if guardiola does the same thing again elsewhere, then maybe

otherwise he can't be classed as a modern great at all

Completely disagree. Guardiola is regarded as one of the modern greats and rightly so.

Turtwig

Helix wrote: »

if guardiola does the same thing again elsewhere, then maybe

otherwise he can't be classed as a modern great at all

You see I do not get this argument at all. It's incredibly narrow to suggest a manager has to be successful at two different clubs before he can be classed as a modern great. He's a modern great regardless of whether he coaches again or not. He had a win rate of over 70%. He brought a club that were look despot back to the pinnacle of football and then set a new standard altogether. He might be the greatest of the modern era, I think he is, but to suggest he's not even a great is incredibly narrow minded and a tad ignorant of what the guy has achieved.

Helix

G.K. wrote: »

Completely disagree. Guardiola is regarded as one of the modern greats and rightly so.

i dont think you can be a great after what, 4 years in the management game? we have to see what he does in future

mourinho is a great
fergie is a great

guardiola very much looks like he'll become one, but he's not there yet

Helix

Jernal wrote: »

You see I do not get this argument at all. It's incredibly narrow to suggest a manager has to be successful at two different clubs before he can be classed as a modern great. He's a modern great regardless of whether he coaches again or not. He had a win rate of over 70%. He brought a club that were look despot back to the pinnacle of football and then set a new standard altogether. He might be the greatest of the modern era, I think he is, but to suggest he's not even a great is incredibly narrow minded and a tad ignorant of what the guy has achieved.

not at all, it just means we have very different definitions of what the word great means

guardiola was certainly a revolutionary manager. he's definitely been up there with the best during his time active as a manager. but is he better than mourinho? is he better than ferguson? no, he's not shown that yet

G.K.

Considering he is the biggest reason why Barca have achieved so much under him, than yes, I'd call him a great.

And considering he's beaten Ferguson and Mourinho most times he's faced them, I fail to see why you can't call him better.

bucketybuck

Jernal wrote: »

I don't think so. I think that accolade goes to Guardiola. It'd be close, but I think the way Guardiola basically revolutionised so many established conventions in football should not be taken lightly.

Mourinho and Guardiola are to me the best managers to face the game. And in the tactical stakes going on head to heads Guardiola seems a cut above Mourinho.

Wut?

You vastly overstate Guardiola's importance. Cruyff revolutionised conventions. Beckenbauer revolutionised conventions.

Guardiola simply managed Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in their prime to dominance in Spain and Europe.

I dont want to diminish his achievements but I firmly believe that a team of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta plus the likes of Villa, Ibrahimovic or Eto, Valdes etc etc would have been dominant anyway. He was an important part of Barcalonas progress, but he was not a revolutionary.

Helix

G.K. wrote: »

I fail to see why you can't call him better.

because i dont buy that greatness can be achieved over such a short time period. the greats, in my opinion, are the ones who are the best who have ever lived. the ones who showed time and time again that they could do it at the top.

pep doesnt qualify. he won loads of stuff, came under a bit of pressure after losing in the cl semi and losing the league, and he said he couldnt handle it and needed a break

bucketybuck

G.K. wrote: »

Considering he is the biggest reason why Barca have achieved so much under him, than yes, I'd call him a great.

And considering he's beaten Ferguson and Mourinho most times he's faced them, I fail to see why you can't call him better.

He has beaten them with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Move to Italy, and then beat Mourinho/Fergie most times he plays them, and then we'll talk greatest ever.

bucketybuck

Heres a question.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest Basketball coach of all time?

Daly was the coach of the 1992 American olympic basketball team. On average they outscored the opposition by 51 points on their way to winning the gold medal. No other team could touch them. In a game often decided by 3/4/5 points, they won the final 127 points to just 80. They completely dominated the whole tournament.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest ever?

Or was the fact that his team included Micheal Jordan, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing a mitigating factor against his claim to be the greatest ever? Of course it was.

So why is this not the case for Pep Guardiola?

Paparazzo

I hate Jose, but have to agree that he probably is the best manager of modern times. What he's done at so many clubs will probably never be done again.

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

because i dont buy that greatness can be achieved over such a short time period. the greats, in my opinion, are the ones who are the best who have ever lived. the ones who showed time and time again that they could do it at the top.

pep doesnt qualify. he won loads of stuff, came under a bit of pressure after losing in the cl semi and losing the league, and he said he couldnt handle it and needed a break

Ah ffs, he said he needed a break two years ago and last year. He wouldn't leave the club though with the elections coming up. He said it would be unfair for him to do that. He could trod on now and not be at his best but he is smart enough to take a break when he needs it.

If he never manages a team again he will go down as a great. Obviously as he is still young he can go downhill in the future but as of right now he is a great.

eagle eye

bucketybuck wrote: »

Heres a question.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest Basketball coach of all time?

Daly was the coach of the 1992 American olympic basketball team. On average they outscored the opposition by 51 points on their way to winning the gold medal. No other team could touch them. In a game often decided by 3/4/5 points, they won the final 127 points to just 80. They completely dominated the whole tournament.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest ever?

Or was the fact that his team included Micheal Jordan, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing a mitigating factor against his claim to be the greatest ever? Of course it was.

So why is this not the case for Pep Guardiola?

No the comparison is Phil Jackson and not Chuck Daly. And Phil Jackson was considered a great long before he went to LA.

Turtwig

bucketybuck wrote: »

Heres a question.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest Basketball coach of all time?

Daly was the coach of the 1992 American olympic basketball team. On average they outscored the opposition by 51 points on their way to winning the gold medal. No other team could touch them. In a game often decided by 3/4/5 points, they won the final 127 points to just 80. They completely dominated the whole tournament.

Was Chuck Daly the greatest ever?

Or was the fact that his team included Micheal Jordan, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing a mitigating factor against his claim to be the greatest ever? Of course it was.

So why is this not the case for Pep Guardiola?

I don't know basketball so I can't honestly answer this question. He might have been a great, getting the players to play as a team might have counted for everything. I honestly don't know. I can ask the following questions though.

• Is a single tourney the same as a entire season of football? Let alone four?
• Were the US team in disarray when Daly overtook them?
• How tactical do the teams need to be to win the Olympics, it wasn't as if Guardiola's Barca were leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else. Let's not forget Hiddink schooled him in both legs. But he continued to learn and refine since then.
• Surely that US team would have been considered the favourites from the outset, Barca grew into becoming favourites. Utd and CR7 were favourites to thewin UCL final.
• Has not Sir Alex, Mourinho, Ancellotti, etc. not inherited great players in their squads also? The players are mitigating factor of course, but Guardiola (and Mourinho's) way utilising of their abilities was nothing sort of revolutionary. Why hasn't Messi done it for Argentina?

G.K.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Wut?

You vastly overstate Guardiola's importance. Cruyff revolutionised conventions. Beckenbauer revolutionised conventions.

Guardiola simply managed Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in their prime to dominance in Spain and Europe.

I dont want to diminish his achievements but I firmly believe that a team of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta plus the likes of Villa, Ibrahimovic or Eto, Valdes etc etc would have been dominant anyway. He was an important part of Barcalonas progress, but he was not a revolutionary.

Actually you've underrated it. Sure, Rijkaard had them knocking about decent stuff but Guardiola revolutionised Barca's style. he didn't simply manage some prime players. Tiki-Taka in how Barcelona play it is Guardiola's style of football - the pressing, the team ethic etc... It was nowehere near like that before he came to Barca.

gosplan

dreamers75 wrote: »

cgpg5 wrote: »

Yes as he was consistently brilliant with 4 different clubs. Would personally love him back in the prem.

reckon he is nailed on to be next united manager.

I always lol at these comments.

Hannibal

The question should be is Giovanni Trapattoni the best manager of modern times, still doing it at 73

plasmaguy

Barcelona were a good team when Guardiola took over and were still a good team in his first season or two. But he has turned them into a great team in his time there although he inherited the building blocks of a great team to be fair.

Mourinho shades it for me, largely because of winning the European Cup with Porto and Inter, two teams who were average at best in Europe before he took over. He achieved success at Chelsea and has now done it a Real Madrid. That's 4 teams Mourhinho has delivered outstanding success at in less than 10 years in management.

If Guardiola goes to another club, let's say in Italy or England and wins a league and a Champions League, then we can talk about him being better than Mourinho.