NGB Regular upto 8mb - NOT !!

teevanke

Hi, signed over to Eircom NGB Regular upto 8Mb last month and they activated it last Friday, no notice, was working from home and the internet just dropped ! anyway, I reconfigured the router and was back on-line quickly. As this was a new service I began testing the speed ! not impressed.

Last month the eircom sales rep called to the door and said - "hello your phone line is eligible for NGB and you can get upto 8Mb Uncongested" I said I had no problems with my current provider and he came in and we did a speed test - 7.1Mb Down and 0.69 Up - "that's good" he said "but we can do same and better cos our line is Uncongested" --

I have tested the speed over the weekend and have never gotten anything better than 6.29Mb down - it also varies a lot ! is it really NGB Uncongested?? (Wicklow Town).

I spoke to Eircom support this morning and they informed me the best I can ever get with them is 7Mb down!! I spoke to customer service about this as well stating I was told this service would be "Same and Better". But from the support's point of view I will never get SAME or BETTER as 7Mb is the max I can get from them. (www.homevision.ie line check states my line can handle upto 14.14Mb).

I then decided I'll cancel the new service as I was getting a better service before and the 'cooling off period' was 7 days - I actually remember the rep stating the cooling off period started from the time the broadband was activated as I pointed out that made sense as you couldn't cancel something you didn't have !! I was wrong on that, the cooling off period is from the date of contract sign which was a month ago ! Crazy, the contract does state from data of contract sign, so my fault.

Up shoot now is I'm signed into a contract for a service that is worse than what I was originally getting from a different service provider - all Eircom keep saying is "Contract states upto 8Mb and your getting a service'. I checked the router after the call with Eircom pasted in below - reads to me like the eircom circuit is configured for 7.1Mb so it cannot ever be a max of 8Mb !

The following is from my router which appears good from a attenuation/noise point of view so why can't Eircom provide me with the max of 8Mb ?

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7168 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 25.0 db 14.0 db
Noise Margin 13.4 db 22.0 db


Is the Wicklow Town exchange configured for NGB ? The map they have has nothing around Wicklow Town ?

eircom: Ant

teevanke wrote: »

Hi, signed over to Eircom NGB Regular upto 8Mb last month and they activated it last Friday, no notice, was working from home and the internet just dropped ! anyway, I reconfigured the router and was back on-line quickly. As this was a new service I began testing the speed ! not impressed.

Last month the eircom sales rep called to the door and said - "hello your phone line is eligible for NGB and you can get upto 8Mb Uncongested" I said I had no problems with my current provider and he came in and we did a speed test - 7.1Mb Down and 0.69 Up - "that's good" he said "but we can do same and better cos our line is Uncongested" --

I have tested the speed over the weekend and have never gotten anything better than 6.29Mb down - it also varies a lot ! is it really NGB Uncongested?? (Wicklow Town).

I spoke to Eircom support this morning and they informed me the best I can ever get with them is 7Mb down!! I spoke to customer service about this as well stating I was told this service would be "Same and Better". But from the support's point of view I will never get SAME or BETTER as 7Mb is the max I can get from them. (www.homevision.ie line check states my line can handle upto 14.14Mb).

I then decided I'll cancel the new service as I was getting a better service before and the 'cooling off period' was 7 days - I actually remember the rep stating the cooling off period started from the time the broadband was activated as I pointed out that made sense as you couldn't cancel something you didn't have !! I was wrong on that, the cooling off period is from the date of contract sign which was a month ago ! Crazy, the contract does state from data of contract sign, so my fault.

Up shoot now is I'm signed into a contract for a service that is worse than what I was originally getting from a different service provider - all Eircom keep saying is "Contract states upto 8Mb and your getting a service'. I checked the router after the call with Eircom pasted in below - reads to me like the eircom circuit is configured for 7.1Mb so it cannot ever be a max of 8Mb !

The following is from my router which appears good from a attenuation/noise point of view so why can't Eircom provide me with the max of 8Mb ?

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7168 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 25.0 db 14.0 db
Noise Margin 13.4 db 22.0 db


Is the Wicklow Town exchange configured for NGB ? The map they have has nothing around Wicklow Town ?

Hi teevanke,

Thanks for posting on the eircom Boards Forum.

To answer your last query first, the Wicklow Town exchange is enabled for NGB. It is possible that you are connected to a different local exchange and this may not be NGB enabled, though if you PM your home phone number I will be able to confirm this.

The following website may be helpful with different broadband terms, including Sync and attentuation:

Broadband terms

It is difficult for an Internet Provider (ISP) to verify results of a 3rd party website. In which case it is always best to test a broadband connection using objective tests and verified results. The following standard broadband checks will normally confirm if there are any internal setup problems. This will also give broadband support a good idea of where any broadband issue may lie. It should also help improve your broadband connection overall:

Improve your Broadband Connection /Setup

If you need further technical assistance :

Broadband Technical Support : 1890 260260 (locall); Hours : 08:00 - 22:00 (7 days).

Best wishes,
Ant

teevanke

Thanks Ant, PM sent, appreciate your comments, I understand the links you sent, my biggest query is the router stating the Connection Speed 7168 kbps 512 kbps - this means the line is configured for 7.1Mb which then makes my connection speeds of 6.1Mb (avg) correct - however I've ordered the NGB 8Mb so I am expecting my router to say 8128 kbps - then if i get 6Mb or 5Mb etc it may be a local issue on either my side or Eircom's in which case I have no problem troubleshooting - I already spoke to eircom support and they said the best I could get was 7Mb, I assumed at the time that the line was configured for 8Mb and taking into account overheads etc I accepted the 7Mb - but if the line is configured for 7168 kbps, then with overheads etc I will never get 7Mb ! (before I was getting 7.2Mb avg from previous supplier).

You should have my details via the PM so can you tell me the following please :

1) Exactly what is the line configured for - 7168 kbps or 8128 kbps
2) If it is 7168 kbps (as my router is telling me it is), Why is it not 8128 kbps
3) If it is 7168 kbps, can it be configured correctly to 8128 kbps

Appreciate your help.

Sponge Bob

Hang on a sec, it is an 'up to' product and you are nearly at 8mbits so if you upgraded to 'up to' 24mbits you would likely get 18-20mbits anyway.

So chill.! I don't think you are on a different exchange as there are no exchanges around there with NGB bar the town.

teevanke

Sponge Bob, yes it is an 'upto' (a max) of 8Mb but if the line is configured at 7Mb then I'll never get over 7Mb - I'm getting 6.1Mb Average because the line is configured for 7Mb and not 8Mb (according to my router, hoping Ant can confirm this) - my point is - if the line is configured for 8Mb then I think I should be getting about 7.1Mb as I was before, (if the line is configured for 8Mb then I can do further troubleshooting).

I purchased a service 'upto' 8Mb - with the current configuration as I believe it is (i.e. circuit speed = 7168kps), I am getting a service which is 'upto' 7Mb and not 8Mb -

With the 'up to' argument then why don't providers offer upto 1Gb - sure if you only get 1Mb then so what - your getting something - that's why is it 'up to a Max' which means the max must equal the configured speed, I believe the Max speed is not 8Mb and I just want to get that confirmed.

eircom: Ant

teevanke wrote: »

Thanks Ant, PM sent, appreciate your comments, I understand the links you sent, my biggest query is the router stating the Connection Speed 7168 kbps 512 kbps - this means the line is configured for 7.1Mb which then makes my connection speeds of 6.1Mb (avg) correct - however I've ordered the NGB 8Mb so I am expecting my router to say 8128 kbps - then if i get 6Mb or 5Mb etc it may be a local issue on either my side or Eircom's in which case I have no problem troubleshooting - I already spoke to eircom support and they said the best I could get was 7Mb, I assumed at the time that the line was configured for 8Mb and taking into account overheads etc I accepted the 7Mb - but if the line is configured for 7168 kbps, then with overheads etc I will never get 7Mb ! (before I was getting 7.2Mb avg from previous supplier).

You should have my details via the PM so can you tell me the following please :

1) Exactly what is the line configured for - 7168 kbps or 8128 kbps
2) If it is 7168 kbps (as my router is telling me it is), Why is it not 8128 kbps
3) If it is 7168 kbps, can it be configured correctly to 8128 kbps

Appreciate your help.

Hi teevanke,

I think your query is categorically answered by Sponge Bob. As our (eircom) Adsl fixed line broadband is rate adaptive based, it is measured in terms of 'up to', rather than fixed. That is, your provider will try to give you the best possible broadband speed that's available at that time; hence it is stated as 'up to', rather than a fixed speed (which might be much lower).

Your other 3 questions appear to be really the same question.

I will reply to your PM, after checking if your broadband is up to 8Mb, or if it is up to 7Mb.

Best wishes,
Ant

Johnboy1951

teevanke,
get onto support again, and try to find someone who is knowledgeable and helpful -- might take a few calls

Ask them to change your line sync to a higher rate.

You will be advised that this may cause problems due to whatever (line attenuation and such) but ask them to try it, as it was previously synced at a higher rate.

I was lucky I got a very helpful guy when I complained about my line being synced at 3Mb/s
He said it could take 4Mb/s and possibly 5Mb/s ..... so he tried it at 5 and it seemed ok ..... I then asked for 6 and after the usual warnings about lost connection he tried it ..... it held for the few minutes I was speaking to him and so he left it at that ...... telling me to ring back if I found the connection unstable, and he would drop it back to 5.

That was months ago.

I regularly have download speeds of 5 to 5.2Mb/s .... and I have little doubt this is the limit of my line at present. I have no connection difficulties at all.

So another call might be worth the effort to get them to sync the line at 8Mb/s and see if it stable.

regards.

eircom: Ant

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

teevanke,
get onto support again, and try to find someone who is knowledgeable and helpful -- might take a few calls

Ask them to change your line sync to a higher rate.

You will be advised that this may cause problems due to whatever (line attenuation and such) but ask them to try it, as it was previously synced at a higher rate.

I was lucky I got a very helpful guy when I complained about my line being synced at 3Mb/s
He said it could take 4Mb/s and possibly 5Mb/s ..... so he tried it at 5 and it seemed ok ..... I then asked for 6 and after the usual warnings about lost connection he tried it ..... it held for the few minutes I was speaking to him and so he left it at that ...... telling me to ring back if I found the connection unstable, and he would drop it back to 5.

That was months ago.

I regularly have download speeds of 5 to 5.2Mb/s .... and I have little doubt this is the limit of my line at present. I have no connection difficulties at all.

So another call might be worth the effort to get them to sync the line at 8Mb/s and see if it stable.

regards.

Thanks for advise, JohnboY1951,

I have given a PM reply with case reference. Like wise if you need to re-contact Technical Support or if additional technical help is required it is important that you call into Technical Support.

I have conveyed the case reference which was opened by the customer yesterday. This will help greatly as the case will help confirm the status of their existing broadband.

Broadband Technical Support : 1890 260260 (locall); Hours : 8am - 10pm (7 days).


Regards
Ant

teevanke

Hi Ant, I replied to your PM, thanks again, as I said in PM, as I was getting over 7Mb previously (without issue for years) with old provider then Eircom must be able to sync higher that the 7168kpbs they are currently providing - I'll contact support again requesting increase and then see if line drops etc as suggested by Johnboy1951. Cheers

Sponge Bob

The limiting you describe is called a profile, eg an up to 8mbit line can have a lower max speed set by the DSLAM ...generally after stability issues are noted. The tech staff can manually implement a faster profile and override that. Even back when eircom gave fixed speed products not 'up to' products profiles were used and were often the only way to stabilise a long line with lots of disconnects.

Generally it isn't someone in eircom messing around with you unless some klutz switched on the c.160kbit 'test mode' feature and left it on after the test.

arctan

out of interest, I don't suppose your previous provider was vodafone ?

thret

Well I get 26db Down
Supposed to be on 24mb, but they set up my profile as 15mb max.
Getting approx 12.1 on Speedtest.

bkehoe

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Hang on a sec, it is an 'up to' product and you are nearly at 8mbits so if you upgraded to 'up to' 24mbits you would likely get 18-20mbits anyway.

So chill.! I don't think you are on a different exchange as there are no exchanges around there with NGB bar the town.

Why should the OP chill? He's been put on an artificially limited speed profile like so many other customers once migrated to NGB or changing package. If his phone line is capable of 8Mbit, which it is, he's every right to demand he gets what he's paid for and in addition to that they sold the package to him on the basis that it would be the same or better.

Sponge Bob

Define "artifically limited" for us. ???

Johnboy1951

A lower sync rate than his line is capable of and for which he has contracted? If his line is capable should he not be on higher 'profile' as per the contract?

arctan

but the line might not be able to. That's why I'm asking was he with Vodafone. Their ASAM's seem to always work on ADSL2 (12 meg max) whereas Eircom might only have ADSL (G.DMT or ADSL 1) as an option, which is 8megs max

ADSL2 uses the same bandwidth, but a different modulation system, which always seems to squeeze about half a meg to a 1 meg more in some cases down a line compared to ADSL

bkehoe

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Define "artifically limited" for us. ???

Where the prequal value is the limiting factor in profile selection and the attainable rate is ignored. Before the NGB rollout Eircom/bitstream resellers could easily override the prequal and set the line to a higher profile but these days its more or less impossible.

As an example my parents have a line which previously worked solid for several years at 5120, prequaled at 2048, attainable of 4096 and which is now limited to 2048 because the system won't allow a profile of more than the prequal to be set. Line stats the same but the wholesale system simply won't permit an increase in profile any more even though it's aware of the attainable rate.

In the UK and other countries peoples line profiles are set based on the attainable rates or the highest that their router will negotiate.

I believe Eircom's policy these days is cost/bandwidth saving!

Sponge Bob

Bloody hell that is an artificial limit. I didn't realise the techs had such little control over Ngb profiles.

arctan

I've been there 4 or 5 times when Vodafone said they'd up the speed for a customer ...

although, there is the scenario it may have been prequaled at a higher speed and they had the headroom to do it

bkehoe

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Bloody hell that is an artificial limit. I didn't realise the techs had such little control over Ngb profiles.

It's not just limited to NGB profiles - it was a change in systems/policy that came in around the time of the NGB rollout. It mostly seems to tie the hands of the bitstream resellers as I've heard stories of Eircom tech support being able to work around the system and increase a profile if pushed hard by the customer whereas the resellers are stuck with the system telling them the line can do (for example) 4 mbit but the max they can select is 2mbit because of the prequal.

The prequal is a very inaccurate way of testing a line for its capacity as the test only tests a small portion of the frequencies used to carry DSL on the line and as such does not give an accurate reflection of the attenuation over the entire spectrum of frequencies used for DSL. Whereas the attainable value is worked out based on the real world line conditions.

blindsider

eircom: Ant wrote: »

Hi teevanke,

I think your query is categorically answered by Sponge Bob. As our (eircom) Adsl fixed line broadband is rate adaptive based, it is measured in terms of 'up to', rather than fixed. That is, your provider will try to give you the best possible broadband speed that's available at that time; hence it is stated as 'up to', rather than a fixed speed (which might be much lower).

Your other 3 questions appear to be really the same question.

I will reply to your PM, after checking if your broadband is up to 8Mb, or if it is up to 7Mb.

Best wishes,
Ant

eircom eh? Plus ca change!

I could write pages, but I'd probably get in trouble.....LOL!

As an e.g. when eircom say 'uncongested' most people take this to mean 'uncontended' (quite a reasonable assumption IMO). Well, it doesn't.

We all know what 'uncontended' means, but what exactly does 'uncongested' mean?

Is there a PTO in the EU with a worse bb service than eircom?

I seriously doubt it!

teevanke

arctan wrote: »

out of interest, I don't suppose your previous provider was vodafone ?

Hi, yes it was Vodafone, after numerous calls etc the line is now configured at 8, no idea why it wasn't from the start.

Nonoperational

In fairness I'm on NGB and it never ever deviates from the 10Mbit or so, syncing at around 11.5.

Johnboy1951

teevanke wrote: »

Hi, yes it was Vodafone, after numerous calls etc the line is now configured at 8, no idea why it wasn't from the start.

to see that the calls had the desired effect