Do bullies really have low self esteem?

ntlbell

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Why don't you pop off and find that thread, then?

bully.

mikemac1

This was a very interesting thread

It's a wreck now though

Micky Dolenz

ntlbell wrote: »

grow some balls.

Mod

Cop on to yourself or I'm telling teacher.

Pdfile

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

You've clearly never worked in an office.

depends on the office, ive never been bullied... but then again, i've yt to meet folks working theirr with the neck to ?

Duggys Housemate

Anyway, back on topic. I suggest reading the psychopath test. About 1% of the population are psychopaths - not all bullies are psychopaths, but psychopaths are probably bullies - and psychos suffer from a grandiose view of their own self-worth, regardless of circumstance or ability.

I don't believe the low self esteem idea.

Noffles

This thread is attracting the internet tough guys.... very impressive they are too.

ntlbell

Noffles wrote: »

This thread is attracting the internet tough guys.... very impressive they are too.

So I squares up to him..

Casual like

http://tinyurl.com/ckr3ojh

Scanlas The 2nd

foxyboxer wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What about playing a hobby or sport to feel better, would that imply a lack of self esteem?

?

My point was if someone has self-esteem, why would they resort to bullying someone.

For the fun of it, some could be doing it as a result of low self esteem, others could be doing it because they simple enjoy tormenting people.

WindSock

ntlbell wrote: »

grow some balls.

How do you do that? Does it ensure you won't be picked on too?

foxyboxer

WindSock wrote: »

How do you do that? Does it ensure you won't be picked on too?

I would guess he means to retaliate against perceived bullying.
People let themselves get pushed around literally and figuratively.

charlemont

grindle wrote: »

How about a decade being called a "fäggot" and a "queer", being stabbed with compasses, belted with rulers and stones, and pushed around corridors because they knew I'd be too terrified to "squeal" because of the consequences if I did?
Being too scared to leave my house because my estate was littered with scum looking to abuse the weakling?
Multiple suicide attempts and hospitalisations, a short stay in a psychiatric hospital, six years of medication and counselling?
Yeah, sure, bullying's not serious.
Just havin' the craic.

Fair play to you for speaking about it here and I hope you get better, I had similar but nothing as bad as you describe but the one thing I look back on and hate now is how I lost my ambitions and ended up with serious alcohol and legal issues which really screws up my chances of good employment.

ntlbell wrote: »

grow some balls.

Sometimes its not that easy there may be bullying going on in the family home too and its hard to grow balls when your spirit is broken.

I overcame most of my bullies in the end and became friends with some of them but the guy who caused me the worst hassle is doing a Life sentence now and that always brings a smile to my face.

WindSock

foxyboxer wrote: »

I would guess he means to retaliate against perceived bullying.
People let themselves get pushed around literally and figuratively.

That may not always be the case. What if retaliating makes it worse?

OldGoat

Bullying is such a nampypamby term, so very 1900s schoolboyish. It doesn't carry the weight of the the intimidation, aggression and abuse involved. I think we should change it to... intimiagrouse.

ntlbell

WindSock wrote: »

How do you do that? Does it ensure you won't be picked on too?

There's a cream I know that shrinks them, So there must be the equivalent of miracle grow for balls to increase them.

anyway moving on from your hilarious observations. we protect everyone now in western society from the weak and socially inept to the intellectually challenged and give them the resources they need to function in society. So as a human race we can't move forward.

Maybe bullying is a process in selective evolution if the weak and socially inept are bullied enough they'll end their own lives or become recluse so won't have kids. cleaning up the gene pool slightly.

it won't go down well with most but I think it's nicer to think there's a real reason than usually the most liked/popular/strong person in the group having esteem problems or some other form of horse poo.

ntlbell

charlemont wrote: »

the guy who caused me the worst hassle is doing a Life sentence now and that always brings a smile to my face.

Why? does it help with self esteem issues?

FTGFOP

RoverJames wrote: »

There are plenty of pr1cks about who deserve a good slagging during their formative years

Could you describe some examples?

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

Oh, Internet tough guy now. I'm sure he's terrified now.

you learn him.

The irony of you calling someone else an internet tough guy. I wonder if you're as mouthy in real life as you are online?

charlemont

ntlbell wrote: »

Why? does it help with self esteem issues?

No, Seeing his miserable face leaving court is one of the funniest things I'v ever seen. Same fellow was all smiles and chat when I was inside myself but its all fake an absolute psychopath who's friends and cousins all deserted him once they grow up at 18/19.

WindSock

ntlbell wrote: »

anyway moving on from your hilarious observations. we protect everyone now in western society from the weak and socially inept to the intellectually challenged and give them the resources they need to function in society. So as a human race we can't move forward.

Some people argue that is moving forward.

Maybe bullying is a process in selective evolution if the weak and socially inept are bullied enough they'll end their own lives or become recluse so won't have kids. cleaning up the gene pool slightly.

erm.

it won't go down well with most but I think it's nicer to think there's a real reason than usually the most liked/popular/strong person in the group having esteem problems or some other form of horse poo.

Not all popular people are bullies. And not all popular people possess lots of self esteem. Many entertainers for example...

ntlbell

Handsome Bob wrote: »

The irony of you calling someone else an internet tough guy. I wonder if you're as mouthy in real life as you are online?

Don't push me.

St.Spodo

In my experiences, most people from school who apparently had everything going in their favour weren't bullies. Those who were bullies had evident problems below the surface.

ntlbell

WindSock wrote: »

Some people argue that is moving forward.

No, it just increases the burdon on society.

WindSock wrote: »

Not all popular people are bullies. And not all popular people possess lots of self esteem. Many entertainers for example...

In general they would be, it's rare especially in schools some lonley guy with no friends is going around kicking the **** out of everyone. It's usually a lot more clever than that.

grange hill != real life

Duggys Housemate

ntlbell wrote: »

No, it just increases the burdon on society.

In general they would be, it's rare especially in schools some lonley guy with no friends is going around kicking the **** out of everyone. It's usually a lot more clever than that.

grange hill != real life

While that is true in school, the bullies often end up as loud drunken yobs on the dole and proud of it, whilst the bullied become super rich from their script writing, book publishing, software or general creativity.

Thats why the grange hill writers made bullies look like idiots.

ntlbell

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

While that is true in school, the bullies often end up as loud drunken yobs on the dole and proud of it, whilst the bullied become super rich from their script writing, book publishing, software or general creativity.

Thats why the grange hill writers made bullies look like idiots.

That's a lovely story.

A lot of bullies i grew up with became very rich ruthless business men.

some ended up complete average joe soaps.

and some became **** all

so exactly like everyone else?

I don't think it has much baring on the outcome in later life as much as the bitter bullied would like to wish the worst on their bully. life just isn't that fair

WindSock

ntlbell wrote: »

No, it just increases the burdon on society.

What is society moving forward? There are hardly massive advances in societies where the weak are treated poorly. There are plenty more technological advances for instance in places where they are trying to be helped.
Are you saying compassion holds us back?

In general they would be, it's rare especially in schools some lonley guy with no friends is going around kicking the **** out of everyone. It's usually a lot more clever than that.

grange hill != real life

I don't argue that a lot of bullies don't comply with the stereotype of the Beano meathead with cauliflower ears. Yes a lot of them are popular for reasons, some are respected out of fear perhaps. That's not real respect in the end though. Eventually their minions / followers see through that and get sick of being treated like **** and move on.

Logical Fallacy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

While that is true in school, the bullies often end up as loud drunken yobs on the dole and proud of it, whilst the bullied become super rich from their script writing, book publishing, software or general creativity.

Thats why the grange hill writers made bullies look like idiots.

lol, do people really hold on to that fantasy as a way to make themselves feel better?

FTGFOP

OldGoat wrote: »

Bullying is such a nampypamby term, so very 1900s schoolboyish. It doesn't carry the weight of the the intimidation, aggression and abuse involved. I think we should change it to... intimiagrouse.

Neology is the hallmark of a good analrapist.

ntlbell

WindSock wrote: »

What is society moving forward? There are hardly massive advances in societies where the weak are treated poorly. There are plenty more technological advances for instance in places where they are trying to be helped.
Are you saying compassion holds us back?

The least educated for example in general have the most kids. Since we then have to protect these in all manner of ways, they grow up and in turn have a ton of kids and we're ending up with a large percentage of the population that we have to protect therefor being a burden on society.

It's no longer the survival of the fittest because we protect everyone. hence we don't move forward. The morons the weak are no longer been wiped out they're the leaders of the country for example this is not progression.

WindSock wrote: »

I don't argue that a lot of bullies don't comply with the stereotype of the Beano meathead with cauliflower ears. Yes a lot of them are popular for reasons, some are respected out of fear perhaps. That's not real respect in the end though. Eventually their minions / followers see through that and get sick of being treated like **** and move on.

again this would be a lovley little end to the bully story but it's just not based in reality. the bully will have many different outcomes they all don't get left behind to cry into their pillows

Duggys Housemate

ntlbell wrote: »

The least educated for example in general have the most kids. Since we then have to protect these in all manner of ways, they grow up and in turn have a ton of kids and we're ending up with a large percentage of the population that we have to protect therefor being a burden on society.

It's no longer the survival of the fittest because we protect everyone. hence we don't move forward. The morons the weak are no longer been wiped out they're the leaders of the country for example this is not progression.

Are you incorrectly confusing the least educated with the bullied here? I'd say you are. Probably it works the other way.

ntlbell

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Are you incorrectly confusing the least educated with the bullied here? I'd say you are. Probably it works the other way.

I was just giving an example of how society can be held back by protecting the weak

you can replace it with any weakness you like.

WindSock

ntlbell wrote: »

The least educated for example in general have the most kids. Since we then have to protect these in all manner of ways, they grow up and in turn have a ton of kids and we're ending up with a large percentage of the population that we have to protect therefor being a burden on society.


It's no longer the survival of the fittest because we protect everyone. hence we don't move forward. The morons the weak are no longer been wiped out they're the leaders of the country for example this is not progression.

Now you're talking about the uneducated. Don't really know what this has to do with the bully topic but I am sure there are plenty of bullies in that uneducated group too. And those who have more kids are the survivalists. But if you want to remedy this as it doesnt fit into your ideal utopian society then educating them would be a lot less effort than bullying them into killing themselves. Sure plenty of people in this group might have 'grown a pair' aswell and are impervious to the bullies efforts....might even backfire on the bully...

again this would be a lovley little end to the bully story but it's just not based in reality. the bully will have many different outcomes they all don't get left behind to cry into their pillows

They may or may not. A 'bully' is just a person who acts or acted like a dickhead toward others. There is no end to any little story on how a bully may end up. It is just nice poetic justice to think that someones tormentor ended up with a **** life when in reality many may not even be bullies anymore. Or some may be successful CEO's or attentive nurses.

Noffles

ntlbell wrote: »

I was just giving an example of how society can be held back by protecting the weak

you can replace it with any weakness you like.

The Ignorant, the idiots, the bullies... They are all "weak" on one way or another.

Shame they don't fcuk off too

xflyer

Bullies are cowards. Saw enough of them over the years. They never attack the genuine tough guys because they know they'll get the s**t kicked out of them.

They often have a bunch of little followers around them so some people think they're actually popular. But if any of their pets step out of line they end up bullied too.

I was the quiet, sensitive type so was occasionally a target. I was by no means a tough guy but I had a temper. I would take it for a while but eventually lose it. I would retaliate and hit back. I almost got one expelled from school when I lost it in class once. The teacher figured out exactly what was going on and the bastard was in big trouble. I was left well alone after that. Proof that bullies are cowards.

I could also run fast, that kept me out of trouble a lot.

Even so it had it's effect on me. I could see how it would be very damaging to some people.

Micky Dolenz

ntlbell wrote: »

There's a cream I know that shrinks them, So there must be the equivalent of miracle grow for balls to increase them.

anyway moving on from your hilarious observations. we protect everyone now in western society from the weak and socially inept to the intellectually challenged and give them the resources they need to function in society. So as a human race we can't move forward.

Maybe bullying is a process in selective evolution if the weak and socially inept are bullied enough they'll end their own lives or become recluse so won't have kids. cleaning up the gene pool slightly.

it won't go down well with most but I think it's nicer to think there's a real reason than usually the most liked/popular/strong person in the group having esteem problems or some other form of horse poo.

MOD

You haven't copped on. Don't post in this thread again please.

ntlbell

removed.

OldGoat

FTGFOP wrote: »

Neology is the hallmark of a good analrapist.

Naaa, more of a consensual rationalist.

zenno

WindSock wrote: »

That may not always be the case. What if retaliating makes it worse?

Let me put it this way.. If you do not retaliate then you are sure to spend many more years having to put up with bullying.

As hard and crap as it is, the only way to deal with bullying is to squeeze your hand into a fist and forward it directly to the bullys nose or a few times if needed as this will make the bully know that you are not going to sit down and take it anymore. Ok it is not a nice thing to be doing but if you are left with no choice it has to be done to stop this for the health and mental well-being of yourself. Sometimes you need to go this route and it will normally work and never back down because if you do then you will suffer bullying for future years to come.

WindSock

ntlbell wrote: »

yes lets hope some idiots life is ruined because at an age where he generally didn't know any better, he hurt someones feelings.

As an adult having this sort of attidide is much worse than the original bullying

at least at your age you should know better.

Well you have been directed not to reply so I won't carry on whatever the...dunno...debate we are having here is but I will say I never stated someones life should be ruined over anything and I never maintained that attitude or opinion at all in this thread.

Good luck with the miracle grow ball cream.

Tigger

RoverJames wrote: »

Were they actual bullies though?

There are plenty of pr1cks about who deserve a good slagging during their formative years, those doing the slagging may be viewed as bullies by the pr1cks.

Deserve ? By who's criteria ? So jumped up 14 year old?

Duggys Housemate

zenno wrote: »

Let me put it this way.. If you do not retaliate then you are sure to spend many more years having to put up with bullying.

As hard and crap as it is, the only way to deal with bullying is to squeeze your hand into a fist and forward it directly to the bullys nose or a few times if needed as this will make the bully know that you are not going to sit down and take it anymore. Ok it is not a nice thing to be doing but if you are left with no choice it has to be done to stop this for the health and mental well-being of yourself. Sometimes you need to go this route and it will normally work and never back down because if you do then you will suffer bullying for future years to come.

The problem is the bully will have a gang.

WindSock

zenno wrote: »

Let me put it this way.. If you do not retaliate then you are sure to spend many more years having to put up with bullying.

As hard and crap as it is, the only way to deal with bullying is to squeeze your hand into a fist and forward it directly to the bullys nose or a few times if needed as this will make the bully know that you are not going to sit down and take it anymore. Ok it is not a nice thing to be doing but if you are left with no choice it has to be done to stop this for the health and mental well-being of yourself. Sometimes you need to go this route and it will normally work and never back down because if you do then you will suffer bullying for future years to come.

That's all well and good if the bully makes physical threats of violence in school for instance. What if it is a slow, insidious form that chips away at someone over time and they do not have the opportunity to smash them in the face so easily. Some bullies aren't all brawn. Some are manipulative and psychologically abusive, and know exactly how to get away with it.

Corkfeen

ntlbell wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Are you incorrectly confusing the least educated with the bullied here? I'd say you are. Probably it works the other way.

I was just giving an example of how society can be held back by protecting the weak

you can replace it with any weakness you like.

God, you really are an idiot. I don't care if a mod has an issue with me saying this as it has to be said. Firstly you're describing social darwinism which has been pretty much
rejected entirely (holocaust and all of that.) The individuals who bullied me were spineless bastards. I can comfortably say that I am superior to them in every way possible. They stalked and ridiculed me over my appearance which is no longer an issue. They broke my leg at one point and I've suffered from on and off depression since it occurred. They don't have great prospects awaiting them in the future. To say that bullying is some form of survival of the fittest is absurd and to make an effort to condone it is morbidly wrong. I hope you're trolling.

Paparazzo

I remember there was a complete scumbag in school from a rough part of inner city dublin. Definitely what would be described as a bully, and yes, a complete dickhead. Lets call him Nelson.
Then there was this other kid, sterotypical nerd. Always wore glasses, had a stutter and a weird haircut. Really quiet too. Lets call him Millhouse
So, Nelson comes into our classroom cos he used Milhouses desk for that particular subject. Milhouse is getting his books out of his bag to move to a different class. He has his maths book, pencil case, ruler and stuff on his table. Nelson is waiting and he just sweeps his books off the table onto the ground and smiles. Milhouse looks at him, jumps up and kicks the shít out of him!

zenno

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The problem is the bully will have a gang.

You cannot let that stop you, when you finish with the bully 99.9% of the time the rest of the gang will look around and do nothing as they are just weak saps anyway. like I said in my previous post, when i went to town on a bully after weeks of abuse i snapped and done quite a bit of damage on him and the rest of his friends walked away without saying a word and never once looked at me thereafter.

you have to be able to do a good job on said bully to stop it from happening again and it's necessary to do to have peace thereafter. it just has to be done simple as that. And if the bully's mates try to have a go give them the same and if you do get hammered then at least you tried and always keep fighting back as they will eventually give up as this is true.

That's all well and good if the bully makes physical threats of violence in school for instance. What if it is a slow, insidious form that chips away at someone over time and they do not have the opportunity to smash them in the face so easily. Some bullies aren't all brawn. Some are manipulative and psychologically abusive, and know exactly how to get away with it.

If it is slow and insidious, then all the more reason to end it there and then before it does cause you mental health issues. Look I never said it was easy but if a person was in a situation like this then that person needs to act fast and deal with it. practice with a punchbag if you have one or a friends one for a while to strengthen your hands and next time it happens go in fully and then after that i'm sure it will be the end of it from happening again from that person. It's better than spending months or years being bullied and having mental problems because of it so get the job done and you will feel more better with yourself thereafter and never having to put up with been bullied again. as I said before, it has to be done for your own sake and wellbeing otherwise spend the rest of your life being bullied. who said it would ever be easy but people need to stand up for themselves.

shopaholic01

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe bullying is a process in selective evolution if the weak and socially inept are bullied enough they'll end their own lives or become recluse so won't have kids. cleaning up the gene pool slightly.


I think you may have misinterpreted Darwin..........
You could probably argue the same for assholes

harmoniums

I was harassed terribly in school, by two guys in particular.
I won't say I was bullied per se, to be bullied you need to internalize the abuse, I was a bit too aspergey to really do that properly!

Anyway it ended up that both of the guys was a very closeted homosexuals.

I guess they were attracted to me in that weird schoolyard way that you push around the girl you like.

Paparazzo

ntlbell wrote: »

There's a cream I know that shrinks them, So there must be the equivalent of miracle grow for balls to increase them.

anyway moving on from your hilarious observations. we protect everyone now in western society from the weak and socially inept to the intellectually challenged and give them the resources they need to function in society. So as a human race we can't move forward.

Maybe bullying is a process in selective evolution if the weak and socially inept are bullied enough they'll end their own lives or become recluse so won't have kids. cleaning up the gene pool slightly.

it won't go down well with most but I think it's nicer to think there's a real reason than usually the most liked/popular/strong person in the group having esteem problems or some other form of horse poo.

Congratulations of probably the most idiotic post on boards. What makes it even more stupid is that I honestly think that what you believe.
In 5th year school was graded by class. Guess what class had the most bullys in it? The idiot class. 5B1. Class with the most "victims"? 5A
I like the way you start out with "maybe", then you actually start to believe it and it turns into "a real reason".

zenno wrote: »

You cannot let that stop you, when you finish with the bully 99.9% of the time the rest of the gang will look around and do nothing as they are just weak saps anyway. like I said in my previous post, when i went to town on a bully after weeks of abuse i snapped and done quite a bit of damage on him and the rest of his friends walked away without saying a word and never once looked at me thereafter.

you have to be able to do a good job on said bully to stop it from happening again and it's necessary to do to have peace thereafter. it just has to be done simple as that. And if the bully's mates try to have a go give them the same and if you do get hammered then at least you tried and always keep fighting back as they will eventually give up as this is true.



If it is slow and insidious, then all the more reason to end it there and then before it does cause you mental health issues. Look I never said it was easy but if a person was in a situation like this then that person needs to act fast and deal with it. practice with a punchbag if you have one or a friends one for a while to strengthen your hands and next time it happens go in fully and then after that i'm sure it will be the end of it from happening again from that person. It's better than spending months or years being bullied and having mental problems because of it so get the job done and you will feel more better with yourself thereafter and never having to put up with been bullied again. as I said before, it has to be done for your own sake and wellbeing otherwise spend the rest of your life being bullied. who said it would ever be easy but people need to stand up for themselves.

Depends on the bully! I remember my mates brother beat up a "hard man", he had to leave school early for 2 weeks cos there was a gang of local scumbags (hard man's mates) that would wait outside the school each day. A few of them were carrying hammers!

zenno

Paparazzo wrote: »

Depends on the bully! I remember my mates brother beat up a "hard man", he had to leave school early for 2 weeks cos there was a gang of local scumbags (hard man's mates) that would wait outside the school each day. A few of them were carrying hammers!

I see. In situations like this it can be difficult but that can be dealt with as well but there is help if a group of older blokes are carrying weapons, and this is where you talk to older men like your uncles or the garda to take care of that part, unfortunately there is not much you personally can do if this scenario occurs.

I'm talking about younger folk that have to deal with a young bully or bullies.

Now I will admit that this exact same thing happened me once before as I lived in one of the roughest places in dublin called darndale and grew up there for 14 years of my life and after I dealt with the bully in belcamp college I found out that there was around 7/8 blokes in their 20's waiting for me with dogs and machetes at the gates of the college so obviously i didn't walk out but i got a lift home from a teacher and had a chat with my uncles a while later explaining what happened and myself and 3 uncles went looking for them and found them and a few words were said and after that I never had any more of a problem. Ok sometimes you do need a little backup but in a situation like this, with way older guys that are armed you either have to get help or call the garda to deal with it.

Like I said before though, the bully I dealt with, his friends never bothered me again but whoever these grown men were is beyond me as they were many years older than me so all I can think of is that they were the bully's older brothers friends. nasty predicament to be in though but there's always help when it comes to adults attacking a young teenager.

libnation

Everyone has bullied someone and everyone has been bullied. But not everyone lets it get to them

Acacia

I don't know if bullies have low self-esteem, and I never bought the 'they're just jealous' argument either. My parents used to to tell me that and it never made me feel better, because I just couldn't see the logic. I'm at peace now at why I was targeted by bullies (quiet, shy, studious, goth-y- all the usual clichés!)... but I'll never believe the people who did it to me actually saw something in me that they envied. Sure if that was the case wouldn't they have been intimidated by me and left me alone?

Anyhoo, I do think the reasons for bullying vary from bully to bully and from victim to victim. I think at the root of most of it , is simply somebody using the weakness of another to make themselves feel better. Whether that stems from wanting power/attention/an ego-boost or just plain dickishness , I don't know. The bullies I knew certainly didn't seem to lack self-esteem in any way ( were popular, loud, confident.)