ALTER2EGO's Questions & Answers Thread

Alter2Ego

dead one wrote: »

I ain't getting your point-- Are you saying both Christianity and Judaism are true religion... As you said, "Judeo-Christian Bible is the only one that presents proof of Divine authorship by means of almost 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies"

ALTER2EGO -to- DEAD ONE:

Judaism only accepts the Old Testament, whereas the Judeo-Christian Bible has both the Old Testament and the New Testament. As a reminder, the Jews to this day do not accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. By rejecting Jesus Christ, they reject salvation, because the Bible makes it clear that without Jesus as mediator, one cannot hope for salvation.

"{5} For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, {6} who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all -- this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times."
(1 Timothy 2:5-6)

dead one wrote: »

It might not interest you to know that Islamic karon has corrected Judeo-Christian Bible -- Bible tells Jesus was Prophet of God -- Same is message of Quran...

ALTER2EGO -to- DEAD ONE:

Since the Quran is not inspired of God and actually copied parts of the Hebrew/Old Testament, I can't imagine where you're getting the idea that the Quran corrected the Bible.

There is nothing in the Judeo-Christian Bible that needs correcting. The Bible does not say anything about Jesus being a mere prophet. It clearly describes him as the created son of Jehovah.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all CREATION;.." (Colossians 1:15)

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." (John 1:14)

The words "firstborn" and "begotten" apply to CREATED BEINGS according to any English dictionary.

dead one wrote: »

In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where jesus himself claimed to be God or asked someone to worship him...
If you interested, neutrally read the below book.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12280074/200-ways-the-Quran-Corrects-the-Bible

The reality is all these folks were prophet of God and they preached oneness of God to their people, monotheism... But people didn't believe in them and associate partners with God... and created new religions..

I agree with you 100%. I'm not a Trinitarian. Just try telling what you're telling me to the Trinitarians on this website and see where it will get you. Nowhere.

Medicine333

There is a JW thread already set up for your kind of belief system(contrary as it is to the Bible, but each to their own I suppose).

Alter2Ego

philologos wrote: »

Alter2Ego: How could a man take on sin? We're told that all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If Jesus were not divine, Jesus would have fallen into sin (Romans 3:23, Psalm 14, Psalm 51). How could Jesus have been blameless were He not divine?

ALTER2EGO -to- PHILOLOGOS:
Jesus was sinless because he was not born of a man. Remember, it was through Adam--a once perfect man--that sin passed to all of humanity. It therefore required a perfect man to pay the ransom and repurchase what Adam lost.

"That is why, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."(Romans 5:12)

Adam lost the possibility of everlasting life before he had offspring. So when he started siring children, he passed on Adamic death to all of humanity. Adamic death is permanent death from which there is no resurrection. What was needed was a perfect man whose shed blood would repurchase humanity from Adamic death.

Jesus' prehuman life force was transferred into the womb of a virgin named Mary. Since his life force was that of a perfect angel prior to his coming to earth, he was born a perfect, sinless man. He literally became human. When he died for humanity, he replaced Adam as our father. That's why he's also described as the "last Adam."

"It is even so written: 'The first man Adam became a living soul.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45)


Of course, after his resurrection, Jesus returned to heaven as a spirit person--which is what he formerly had been. The resurrected Jesus is the most powerful angel and is second in command to his heavenly father, Jehovah. He is God's reigning king.

doctoremma

A whole self-dedicated thread so you can teach people what you think. Up yourself, much?

Medicine333

This thread will be closed.

Who do you think you are trying to preach your misinterpretation of God's teachings to Christians?

We have ye coming to our doors annoying us and now you come onto the Christianity forum spouting your inaccuracies too.

Sonics2k

Medicine333 wrote: »

This thread will be closed.

Who do you think you are trying to preach your misinterpretation of God's teachings to Christians?

We have ye coming to our doors annoying us and now you come onto the Christianity forum spouting your inaccuracies too.

Well, clearly that's all open to interpretation. Surely the point of the Christianity forums is to debate the numerous forms of it. There are after all Catholics who think Mormons have it wrong, and Mormons who think the Amish have it wrong, and Amish who think Catholics have it wrong, and so on.

As for the thread itself

PDN
Mod Direction
Alter-Ego, instead of creating or spamming multiple threads propagating Jehovah's Witness teachings, can you please create a new thread to discuss JW teachings and confine that stuff to there.
This forum is for the discussion of Christianity in general, and it is not reasonable to expect that discussion of the doctrines of a small heterodox group should dominate the board.

Though I don't think this is quite what PDN had in mind, Alter2ego was told to make one thread for the JW debates.

Benny_Cake

Sonics2k wrote: »

Though I don't think this is quite what PDN had in mind, Alter2ego was told to make one thread for the JW debates.

The other thread was actually started by ISAW and Alter2Ego hasn't showed up there yet, so it's basically a group of people arguing with no one in particular - and we wondered why some people think we're crazy!!

I think discussions about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses have their place here - although heterodox, they have emerged out of the Christian tradition and are a part of the Christian family in a sense (they'd probably be the crazy, third cousin once removed part of the family, but nonetheless..). What I would question is the quantity of Alter2Ego threads and the tone of his posts. He hasn't yet admitted to being a Jehovahs Witness afaik although the beliefs and terminology in his posts read like something from the Watchtower or Awake.

Medicine333

Soniks2k, I have no problem with the subject of the thread. My problem is with Alter-Ego's insistence on having his own thread. There is already a JW thread up.

Alter2Ego

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

Below is instructions given to me by the moderator identified as PDN. I was instructed to open a thread to post info on controversial religious doctrines. To see the original moderator instructions to me, you can go to the closed thread entitled: "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From?" by using the following weblink. The moderator's instructions will be the last post on page 1 of the thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056614380


You will also find the moderator's instructions to me on page 2 of the closed thread entitled: "Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?"
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056613660&page=2

Mod Direction
Alter-Ego, instead of creating or spamming multiple threads propagating Jehovah's Witness teachings, can you please create a new thread to discuss JW teachings and confine that stuff to there.
This forum is for the discussion of Christianity in general, and it is not reasonable to expect that discussion of the doctrines of a small heterodox group should dominate the board.

Medicine333

Alter2Ego wrote: »

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

Below is instructions given to me by the moderator identified as PDN. I was instructed to open a thread to post info on controversial religious doctrines. To see the original moderator instructions to me, you can go to the closed thread entitled: "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From?" by using the following weblink. The moderator's instructions will be the last post on page 1 of the thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056614380


You will also find the moderator's instructions to me on page 2 of the closed thread entitled: "Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching?"
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056613660&page=2

Mod Direction
Alter-Ego, instead of creating or spamming multiple threads propagating Jehovah's Witness teachings, can you please create a new thread to discuss JW teachings and confine that stuff to there.
This forum is for the discussion of Christianity in general, and it is not reasonable to expect that discussion of the doctrines of a small heterodox group should dominate the board.

Yes, and ISAW created one. There is no need for this thread, so it will more than likely be transferred over to ISAW's thread.

prinz

Something about this thread makes me wish I was having a piece of halibut for dinner.

Alter2Ego wrote: »

Jesus was sinless because he was not born of a man. Remember, it was through Adam--a once perfect man--that sin passed to all of humanity. It therefore required a perfect man to pay the ransom and repurchase what Adam lost..

That's actually an interesting concept although I recall coming across similar before outside of JW teachings, although I fail to see a whole lot of sense in arguing between Jesus being "a perfect angel" and not being one part of the trinitarian godhead. It just kicks the problem down the line a bit. Then you have to ask why Jesus was a perfect angel, as opposed to a regular angel, who made Him that way and why was He chosen for this role?

Then you'd have to ask if a perfect angel can become a perfect man, couldn't God the Son so to speak also become a perfect man - or do angels have some ability God doesn't have? If God can't and angels can, why? If God can, isn't it possible that God did? Therefore Jesus as God but also as perfect man fulfilled the need for a perfect man to pay the ransom?

Seems to me it creates more questions than it answers.

georgieporgy

I'd given up drinking but now I'm going to start again :pac:

Alter2Ego

Medicine333 wrote: »

Alter-Ego, God is Jesus Christ: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. One body. Take a look at this:

In John 10:30, Jesus said "I and my Father are one’’, i.e. Jesus is one with God.

ALTER2EGO -to- MEDICINE333:
That verse of scripture is with reference to unity of purpose, being in total agreement with one another. Because you are ignoring the context—the surround words, verses, or chapters—it's causing you to not get the correct understanding. Remember this: Without context, it is impossible to get the correct meaning of individual verses.

I will now quote from further in the same book of John and show you what Jesus meant when he said "I and my Father are one." (Remember, context includes surrounding chapters.) I want you to keep your eyes on the words in bold print within the quoted scripture.

"{20} I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; {21} in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order the world may believe that you sent me forth. {23} Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one." (John 17:20-22)


Now let me ask you this rhetorical question: Is Jesus saying that all his disciples will become one person in combination? Logic tells us that's not the case and that instead Jesus is referring to unity of purpose. Yet, when he uses the exact same terminology with reference to himself and his heavenly Father, Trinitarians jump on that and insist that it's proof of a 3-prong god.

Alter2Ego

Medicine333 wrote: »

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

ALTER2EGO -to- MEDICINE333:
You are ignoring the context again—meaning the surrounding words, verses, and chapters. Part of the context is right there in the very verse you are quoting from. You ignored everything else and focused only on the part that says "and the Word was God." That part is a translation blunder that was done by Trinitarian translators to deliberately promote the Trinity dogma.

Remember, in order to get the correct understanding of scriptures, one must pay attention to the rest of the words within the verse, and one must also pay attention to surrounding verses and chapters. Not doing that is a disservice to oneself. It makes it easier for one to be misled by doctrines that are not in the Bible.

Notice the break-down of John 1:1. I will print each part of it in dark red.

1."In the beginning was the Word,.." Those first three words, "in the beginning" automatically indicate that "the Word" (Jesus Christ) was created. The pre-human Jesus was created before he came to earth as a human. The expression, "In the beginning" could never apply to God the Father, because Jehovah does not have a beginning. He is eternal.
"Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even FROM TIME INDEFINITE to TIME INDEFINITE you are God." (Psalms 90:2 -- NWT)

"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even FROM EVERLASTING to EVERLASTING, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2 -- KJV)

The scripture at Psalms 90:2 makes it clear that Jehovah God does not have a beginning. Therefore, it would be impossible for Jesus to be combined into a trinity "godhead" with Jehovah--in which they are supposed to be CO-EQUAL and CO-ETERNAL.

DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL":
Eternal means not having a beginning or an end.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal?


2. "and the Word was WITH God,.." This indicates that there are two separate individuals involved as a result of the use of the word "with." If the argument is that Jesus and Jehovah are combined into a "godhead," that would amount to God being with himself, which makes no sense.


3."and the Word was God."This last part of John 1:1 is questionable and is in fact a deliberate translation blunder by translators who are Trinitarians. Let's use the logic God gave us. You can't be a created being and at the same time be "with God" (which amounts to being with yourself) and at the same time also be God Jehovah. A created being is automatically subservient to the God who created him. The pre-human Jesus is a powerful god, but he is not part of a trinity with Almighty God Jehovah.

I will expand on this some more after I hear from you.

Alter2Ego

Medicine333 wrote: »

The Word is who? John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." The Word became flesh, Jesus became a man. Jesus is the Word.

ALTER2EGO -to- MEDICINE333:
I agree with everything you said in this section. But you don't realize implications of what you are reading in this verse of scripture. You are using a New International Version which deliberately changed the words of John 1:14 to say: "the glory of the One and Only." That is a translation blunder aka an error, and a deliberate one. The correct translation is as follows according to several Bibles. Keep your eyes on the words in bold print within the quoted scriptures.

VARIOUS TRANSLATIONS OF JOHN 1:14

New World Translation
"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an Only-Begotten Son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth."


New American Standard Bible
"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.


Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Darby Bible Translation
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), full of grace and truth;


DEFINITON OF "BEGOTTEN":Begotten means something created something else or someone fathered a child.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/begotten

Plowman

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