Toiler's Constant

BennyMul

Celine Tall Molding wrote: »

I just grunt, make loud noises and try smile through it knowing it will all be over soon enough and the endorphins will then kick in.:o

and what do you do on the bike then:D

Kurt Godel

Thurs 2,400m swim

Christ, I felt tonights session. What happened to the nice gentle coach from last week? 400m warm-up, ascending effort. Then 4x(50m kick, 50m swim, 15sec rest), which was a lot tougher than it should have been, if you think "runners" should have strong legs. Then into the main set:
4x (4x50m off 60, target in on 45; 2x100m off 2:00, target in on 1:30, 60 sec rest)

These were bloody tough! First set I managed to hit the targets, but was drifting towards 1:35 for the second set of 100's. I'll be honest, my arms were hanging off, I was drinking water, and looking for reasons to bail. Time's like this, there's no-one better to have behind you than Abhainn, who is a machine for pain, so no way could I quit. Third set, 50's came in 45-47sec, but the 100's were hitting 1:37, 1:39 (I was cramping in my calf which didn't help). Form was all over the gaff, which I knew as I swam, but its great to have someone at the end to tell you exactly what you're doing wrong. I settled back into a better stroke, and gave it what I had for the last set, hit the 50's, and came in about 1:34, 1:33, for the 100's.

Probably the hardest session I ever did. I'm annoyed that I didn't hit the 1:30 for all the 100's, hopefully that annoyance will carry through into next week's session.

Dory Dory

A good coach will always push your limits, so don't worry about being a little off on those 100s. Besides, just remember - when you start hitting those 100s, the ante will go up and your target time will go down....and the cycle will begin again. Nice work!

Your calf cramps...do they cramp when you run or bike? Seems to be a recurring theme with swimming so I wonder if there's something going on with your kick or foot position? Maybe Interested would have some insight?

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

A good coach will always push your limits, so don't worry about being a little off on those 100s. Besides, just remember - when you start hitting those 100s, the ante will go up and your target time will go down....and the cycle will begin again. Nice work!

Your calf cramps...do they cramp when you run or bike? Seems to be a recurring theme with swimming so I wonder if there's something going on with your kick or foot position? Maybe Interested would have some insight?

Calf's cramps... I'd say I need to take a bit of salt or quinine before swimming. Sometimes happens on the bike, has happened running. As it is, I drink lots of water in the hours before, which probably flushes salt from the system. The kicking drills probably set it off.

Moving targets... my first thought upon opening my eyes this morning was annoyance at not hitting 1:30. But I'm determined to be annoyed in a few weeks at not hitting 1:25.

Abhainn

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Thurs 2,400m swim

2,600m - You forgot the 200 WD at the end

When we finished the 50 kick set and it was still only 8:20 on the watch I didn't know I'd make it to 9pm.

Sort out the salt issue for next week and the 100's in 1:30's will be just an ease

Oryx

I had issues with cramp last year when I was training hard. Affected every discipline. I was recommended hi5 zero, which I started taking every day, and whether it was coincidental or not, the cramping dissappeared. I still take it regularly now, and never have issues with cramp.

Now, Im sure there are cheaper methods of getting salt intake, but that worked for me.

Dory Dory

And maybe try some calf stretches too - like the one where you go up on your toes then back down to your feet then you lift your toes.

joey100

I find my calves cramp more on the bike than anything else, but they have done a few times in the pool. Find it mainly happens when I'm turning at each end if I drop lower in the water and push off the wall. If I stay on top of the water and push off I never have any problems. Think I've tried nearly everything to stop them but still get them every now and again, it's just taking longer and longer to get them the more and more I do.

interested

Its January ... sorry February
Lots of 'talk' of targets.
In addition to tackling some stroke issues, these next couple of months for swimming are when steps have to be taken to move towards achieving those targets. Whilst holding efficient stroke as you tire, the body will learn to adapt in the right way to meeting the baby steps necessary to put together the swim you are targetting later in the year.

Of course - adaptation takes a little time - but things have to move from the 'getting to know you' to the 'sorry, a cramp is not a valid excuse' relationship between the swimmers and coach - since there's only 8 hours left in the block of work.

re: cramps - everyone differs - too much water during the day can flush salts etc from the body. Pushing harder off a wall to make an interval time to buy you a few extra seconds of rest is something those muscles will get used to.

Kurt Godel

interested wrote: »

Its January ... sorry February
Lots of 'talk' of targets.
In addition to tackling some stroke issues, these next couple of months for swimming are when steps have to be taken to move towards achieving those targets. Whilst holding efficient stroke as you tire, the body will learn to adapt in the right way to meeting the baby steps necessary to put together the swim you are targetting later in the year.

Of course - adaptation takes a little time - but things have to move from the 'getting to know you' to the 'sorry, a cramp is not a valid excuse' relationship between the swimmers and coach- since there's only 8 hours left in the block of work.

re: cramps - everyone differs - too much water during the day can flush salts etc from the body. Pushing harder off a wall to make an interval time to buy you a few extra seconds of rest is something those muscles will get used to.

Despite the copious amounts of bullsh!t, waffle, and verbose fluff on this log (which essentially functions as a dumping ground for my hobby musings), I actually prefer straight talk, in the sense that everyone knows where they stand. So I'd like (you) to think we're at the stage where you can tell me straight 'sorry, a cramp is not a valid excuse'- as you say, we've limited time to play with. For my part, I'll endevour to recognize that when you ask me to come in on 1:30, its not an arbitrary figure you've just plucked from the air, its a defined part of this rolling program. So I failed that part yesterday- its meant to hurt more than I was willing to let it. I'm wasting your time if I can't keep my end of the deal up. Won't happen again.

interested

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Despite the copious amounts of bullsh!t, waffle, and verbose fluff on this log (which essentially functions as a dumping ground for my hobby musings), I actually prefer straight talk, in the sense that everyone knows where they stand. So I'd like (you) to think we're at the stage where you can tell me straight 'sorry, a cramp is not a valid excuse'- as you say, we've limited time to play with. For my part, I'll endevour to recognize that when you ask me to come in on 1:30, its not an arbitrary figure you've just plucked from the air, its a defined part of this rolling program. So I failed that part yesterday- its meant to hurt more than I was willing to let it. I'm wasting your time if I can't keep my end of the deal up. Won't happen again.

as before, we're in this together champ - its about steps along a path and finding the envelope and why there are limiters. Technique or fitness and finessing the grey areas.
All this talk of 'hurt' is not what it's about. For 3 people that hadn't done alot of structured sessions you guys applied yourself in EXACTLY the right way. EXACTLY the right attitude that has allowed you to progress to where you are today and will bring you on to the next level.

Btw, I decide whats a waste of my time see you next week.

Kurt Godel

Fri 3,000m swim

Today I know I have to up my swim game. With that in mind, I'm determined to give this 10-week block my best shot. I can't allow such huge variance between 100's (for instance) just because I'm tired, or cramping, or just not putting in the effort. Lane to myself tonight at the pool, great.

500m wu
5x (100m ripple, 100m hip point)

Main set:
4x100m off 1:50 (1:36, 1:36, 1:37, 1:38)
50m easy
4x100m off 1:45 (1:34, 1:37, 1:38, 1:39)
50m easy
4x100m off 1:40 (1:34, 1:38, 1:40, 1:38)

200m wd

Tough set, the arms were tired but I kept a good stroke up. Drills beforehand certainly helped this aspect. Gave it what I had on the last set, but I'd have liked to seen them all come in under 1:35. Still, positives are this descending set is off 5 seconds faster than I've done a few days back.

Kurt Godel

interested wrote: »

All this talk of 'hurt' is not what it's about.

I appreciate that, but a limiter is allowing perceived hurt to destroy form. I controlled that better tonight.

interested wrote: »

Btw, I decide whats a waste of my time see you next week.

Ha, try keeping me away

shotgunmcos

What OW swims will you enter? A head to head might be interesting after this set of lessons

Kurt Godel

shotgunmcos wrote: »

What OW swims will you enter? A head to head might be interesting after this set of lessons

Head to head indeed:) I see lack of chocolate is starting to affect your brain (that or you've a funny sense of humour;)). Valentia Sprint is the first, and I'll fit in whatever other Tris fit the calendar later in the year, and hopefully have a better showing at some Bray aquathons. But swim-only races? I'm doing Beginnis come hell or high water. Would like to do Lough Dan 5k or 10k once the calendar is out (but you need to be in a swim club and my local one has a waiting list). Beyond that I don't know. I'll swim Glendalough again if its on, thats a magical place. Really it depends on what I can squeeze in with the family.

How 'bout youself?

shotgunmcos

Was thinking of Be finish too but the Warrior of the Sea may suit better as I plan to do the Croagh Patrick IMRA run the next day as a training run practice for Gaelforce. Otherwise a sub3 10k is a main goal. Maybe the i3 later in the autumn. Like you, depends on calender and family

Kurt Godel

Sat 12km steady

All of todays Rugby match was spent, more usefully, but less enjoyably, in a tutorial on Primitive Recursive functions. The change of scenery after that was running around Marlay Park, was most welcome. Nice day for it. Steady pace, pushing a little on the uphills. There's still a long ways to go before run fitness is anywhere decent. But the knee doesn't hurt anymore, and beggars can't be choosers.

Kurt Godel

Sun 2hr turbo

Kept the cadence at a steady pace, first hour flew by, second hour dragged, but I think the legs needed this one.

Weekly Summary|Session|Comment

Monday|4,00m swim|3x(4x100) descending off 1:55,1:50,1:45
Tuesday|7k run|Tempo, decent pace.
Wednesday|62min turbo|"Downward Spiral", really hard effort
Thursday|2,400 swim|Coached, very hard set
Friday|3,000m swim|3x(4x100) descending off 1:50,1:45,1:40
Saturday|12k run| Steady
Sunday|2hr turbo| Steady pace

Weekly km|Swim 9.4k Bike 85k Run 19k|Very intense week
2013 km|Swim 45.05 Bike 265 Run 129.5


This was a very intense weeks training, and it went well. Swimming is coming on strongly, bike is ticking over, and the runs are starting to get faster. Need to hold a couple more weeks like this one.

Kurt Godel

Mon 3,000m swim

500m w/u
1000m drills (ripple, point, pull bouy)
400m in 6:26
200m easy
4x100m off 1:50
warm down

The drills went well, swimming with the pull bouy gives them a new dimension. After a while I was at a loss of what to do, so I decided to give a 400m a lash, concentrating on maintaining a solid stroke throughout. So, it wasn't really a full TT, but more about pacing at effort. Although its a pb and takes 9 seconds off last months time, I'm more pleased to look at the length splits and see that the pacing was solid (a couple of anomalies at the start and finish, but mainly coming in 24.4- 24.9secs). So while it was a fairly tough effort, I'm beginning to trust the new stroke, and see it pay dividends. There's another chunk waiting to come off, by adding a bit more effort to this disciplined stroke.

(PS One of the girls from the Tri club was there tonight in the lane beside me. She couldn't swim at all before the first lesson 2 weeks back, but tonight she was showing a strong kick and moving well with her kick board, delighted to see that progress!)

RacoonQueen

What watch are you using 910 or garmin swim? Thinking of getting a proper swim watch...

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Slow down a little on those 400 swim improvements, I have a target etched on your back:)

edit to add: and that Abhainn lad as well.

Kurt Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What watch are you using 910 or garmin swim? Thinking of getting a proper swim watch...

Garmin Swim. I find it very good, easy to operate/read, its not too bulky either so can be worn as a regular watch. There's no beep every 100m though, like there is with the 910, so thats something to bear in mind. I was put off the 910 by talk of fogging, which hasn't happened to my Swim. If you already have a run/bike garmin, its a no-brainer, get the Swim.

Kurt Godel

Celine Tall Molding wrote: »

Slow down a little on those 400 swim improvements, I have a target etched on your back:)

edit to add: and that Abhainn lad as well.

You're more than welcome to try:) I'm already swimming as fast as I can to stop Abhainn catching up. In fact I'm adding Day-Glo paint to your target, bring it on!;)

RacoonQueen

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Garmin Swim. I find it very good, easy to operate/read, its not too bulky either so can be worn as a regular watch. There's no beep every 100m though, like there is with the 910, so thats something to bear in mind. I was put off the 910 by talk of fogging, which hasn't happened to my Swim. If you already have a run/bike garmin, its a no-brainer, get the Swim.

Ta' the problems I have with transferring workouts from the 310 is the only thing that puts me off. Will check out the other options as well anyway.

Kurt Godel

Tue 7km tempo run

There's a few new boys who have joined our run group, and some of them are pretty fast. That's great news, as it pushes on the guys at the front, and that increase in tempo feeds on right down the pack.

I led off (as usual), and started into the work of the first long hill. By half way up I was caught, so kept the effort hard to lead at the turn by the church. If I'm at this position in these Tuesday night runs, I'm happy. The lads (led by some new faces) kept up the fast pace downhill, but I'm wary of running fast down on hard surfaces (knee problems), so I had a gap put into me, and was passed by a few more from behind with it. No hassle, I picked up my pace again once we were flat, and started chasing down the two in front. They weren't giving much though, and I was still chasing by the second steep hill. Here I ground out a steady ascent, and kicked into a pace off the top. I still had the two ahead, so the last kilometer became a real tempo run at fast (racing) pace. I found another gear to close the gap and pass, and finished strong.

Very happy with these group runs, there's honest effort to be given at all stages. Running with the group for tempo's makes the session.

Kurt Godel

Wed 1:20 turbo

Steady pace rather than last weeks energy-sapping sufferfest, now that I'm more aware of what's coming tomorrow.

Kurt Godel

Thurs 2,250 club swim

400m wu (50m swim, 50m hip; ascending effort)
8x50m kick, 15sec between each
10x50 off 70, to come in 45; minute rest
10x50 off 60, to come in 46; minute rest
10x50 off 50, to come in 47
50m wd

Last weeks session is a fond memory. and seems easy in comparison to tonights. The kick drills were tough, although I found another gear by utilizing my hip in a better way, and started to get some motion. Slight cramp started, but soon left. I had taken tonic water (quinine) a few hours previous.

Into the main set. The first 10 all came in under target time, being between 37-42 secs. That's something I'll have to work on, as I was robbing seconds for this pace from the last set. Nevertheless, stroke felt good and controlled.

Second 10 were tough, I was drinking water and working hard to hold the stroke. These were closer to target pace, 44-46 secs. The last few of them felt very hard.

I was wrecked for the last set. First few came in 47,48, 48, and boy are those two seconds rest welcome! My stroke was starting to collapse as the set continued, and I was hitting 50. A halt was called to proceedings after 8 of them.

So overall I'm happy enough- there is still the agenbite of inwit (look it up;)) that annoys from not getting the last set, but I have to learn discipline in not doing the first set too fast. My stroke felt better and more fluid and natural than before, so thats a positive. Tough, but a decent session.

Dory Dory

Looked it up....and understand the meaning and connection.

And the math/logic book came today. Thank you!

Oh, and some very nice swimming going on here.

Kurt Godel

Fri 2.5km swim

One of interested's swim sets from that excel sheet:

400m ascending effort wu (7:23)
60 secs rest
400m off 9 mins (in 6:49)
400m off 9 (in 6:56)
200m off 4:10 (in 3:29)
200m off 4:10 (in 3:29)
200m off 4:10 (in 3:31)
100m off 1:50 (in 1:43)
100m off 1:50 (in 1:46)
100m off 1:50 (in 1:47)
60 secs rest
100m off 1:50 (in 1:42)
100m off 1:50 (in 1:50)
100m off 1:50 (in 1:44)
200m wd
Garmin Link

The two 400's went good enough, I was trying out a new aerodynamic glide from push-off that was demonstrated last night. Seemed to gain a meter or so by using it. 200's were all about keeping it steady, ditto the 100's. I was glad of the minute rest between them (although I was joined by a breaststoking lady who decided against joining the guy breaststoking in the lane next to me...), the last three were done on arms that carried last nights efforts.

Kurt Godel

Sat 14km hilly run

I was marshalling on the summit of Micks Annacurra race, so ran up and meandered a bit to kill time. Good turnout, and met some heads who I hadn't seen in a while, very enjoyable day, well done Mr. Race Director. Coincidental spot prize winner, score!