**MOD NOTE UPDATED**Limerick woman complains about living in 3 bed house with 4 kids

yore

micropig wrote: »

lets ignore the fact that students and farmers are actually productive members of society, are the grants they recieve to the tune of 40000+/year with free housing and medical thrown in on top? i think not

I wasn't giving out about either. The previous poster made a very generalising and irrelevant reference to them.
Both are means tested and both are less than the dole! that's all I was saying. If you made both stop studying/producing and go onthe dole, their payments from the state would be larger!

micropig

yore wrote: »

I wasn't giving out about either. The previous poster made a very generalising and irrelevant reference to them.
Both are means tested and both are less than the dole! that's all I was saying. If you made both stop studying/producing and go onthe dole, their payments from the state would be larger!

yes, it was more the other poster that question was aimed at, i agree with you


madness to think you would get paid more for doing nothing

mloc

The whole system is so fundamentally wrong.

With the exception of those who are simply unable to work, social welfare should be about subsistance. It should not pay a mortgage, pay for holidays, pay for booze and cigarettes or anything else other than simply making sure people don't starve and can get up in the morning to look for work. That's it. That's all it should ever do.

El Weirdo

yore wrote: »

Did you make a genuine mistake or do you just like talking about stuff that you have no clue about?

Ironic question is ironic.

yore wrote: »

2) What payouts do students get? There used to be grants but again they were means assessed off the parents income. And the rates were far far less than the dole.

Four words:

Back
To
Education
Allowance

micropig

El Weirdo wrote: »

Ironic question is ironic.

Four words:

Back
To
Education
Allowance

.
i'd rather pay the money to someone trying to better themselves through education and increasing their employability, than to someone with no other ambition to live off the state lashing out the sprogs...and then complaining it's not enough

The King of Moo

micropig wrote: »

.
i'd rather pay the money to someone trying to better themselves through education and increasing their employability, than to someone with no other ambition to live off the state lashing out the sprogs...and then complaining it's not enough

Like Serinna, who's planning on going to UL to study midwifery?

cofy

The King of Moo wrote: »

Like Serinna, who's planning on going to UL to study midwifery?

The same Serinna who was going to start a facebook campaign, supporting parents of children with ADHD?

micropig

The King of Moo wrote: »

Like Serinna, who's planning on going to UL to study midwifery?

Back to Education Allowance (BTEA). This weekly allowance is paid at a standard rate and is not means-tested. In addition to your weekly BTEA payment, you also get an annual Cost of Education Allowance of €500, paid at the start of each academic year.


Not Means tested, So they won't take all her allowances and maintenance in to account. They won't consider the value of her medical card and the value of the council house rent. (in relation to market rents)


I have no problem giving her the back to education allowance when she goes back to college, fair play...but she is not working at the moment to help support herself achieve this goal. College doesn't start until October, so in the mean time we support her and her lifestyle and hand her a bigger house?

She will still be receiving the same amount now, as she will, when she goes to college...so we pay the same to people who do nothing as we do to those who are trying?

She already has 4 children and 1 on the way..Who is going to mind these while she studies? She already had to give up her job to mind one of her children, how is she going to mange to mind this child while at college?

She is planning to go because she wants to..That doesn't mean she'll get it (although I hope she does)


Maybe she should have sorted out her career and her house before having all these children..personal responsibility and all that

Will her partner still be on the dole? Why did she have to give up her job to mind the child, couldn't her partner have done it?



Still no mention of how much maintenance she receives


Edit: Still waiting on the campaign on ADHD to kick off, she had lots of air time to promote this

El Weirdo

micropig wrote: »

Means tested, I hope they take all her allowances and maintenance in to account. Will they consider the value of her medical card and the value of the council house rent? (in relation to market rents)

Did you even read what you copy-pasta'd?

micropig wrote: »

Back to Education Allowance (BTEA). This weekly allowance is paid at a standard rate and is not means-tested. In addition to your weekly BTEA payment, you also get an annual Cost of Education Allowance of €500, paid at the start of each academic year.

micropig

El Weirdo wrote: »

Did you even read what you copy-pasta'd?

Whoops am I bad, so not means tested, none of her allowances & maintenance will be taken in to account

El Weirdo

micropig wrote: »

Whoops am I bad, so not means tested, none of her allowances & maintenance will be taken in to account

As I understand it, the BTEA will essentially replace whatever basic payment she is in receipt of now.

I know when I got it, I went from being on the dole to getting the BTEA. Same amount, iirc.

She will possibly receive an increase for the children, but no more than what she would be getting now and no more than anyone on the dole would be getting.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works but I am open to correction.

micropig

El Weirdo wrote: »

As I understand it, the BTEA will essentially replace whatever basic payment she is in receipt of now.

I know when I got it, I went from being on the dole to getting the BTEA. Same amount, iirc.

She will possibly receive an increase for the children, but no more than what she would be getting now and no more than anyone on the dole would be getting.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works but I am open to correction.

that's what I thought, and that's fine, she's studying in education....but she's not at the moment..

I wouldn't be so hard on her if her story was

'I'm at college, my husband is working (regardless of wage/job type), we're not managing, I'd like another baby but I'm not in a position to do so at the moment..'


How long is she between jobs? She receives a lot of support already from the state. Maybe next year isn't the best year to be planning on going to college (new baby and all) and lots of people have to wait until they are in a secure position to support themselves through university, especially if they have children to think of

It's the mentality of I want, so I'll get because I am entitled to it, I have an issue with as well as the cash and other benefits they receive from the state..If they are motivated enough to complain, they should be motivated enough to get out there and do a days work

And this from my previous post

She will still be receiving the same amount now, as she will, when she goes to college...so we pay the same to people who do nothing as we do to those who are trying?

cofy

As a housewife (basically a non existant person) no SW payments apart from child benefit and I am not paying PAYE but my husband is. With all the entitlements there are out there, I am just thinking how much we would benefit if my husband asked for reduction in his pay then, we would qualify, (I definitely would not use the word entitled), for FIS and so, so very much more.

The whole system needs to be looked at again and properly.

cofy

^^^
The reason for me being a full-time housewife child care costs/ and availability.

FutureGuy

micropig wrote: »

no. you ruined your chance the day you got a job. bad move i'm afraid.:mad:

But am I not entitled to make a bad move??? I'm entitled to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

micropig

FutureGuy wrote: »

But am I not entitled to make a bad move??? I'm entitled to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, We'll allow you 1..once you don't go and get 5 by accident:p

IrishAm

micropig wrote: »

l farmers are actually productive members of society, are the grants they recieve to the tune of 40000+/year

Eh, its generally a lot more than that.

European Commission data shows Irish companies and farmers received over €2 billion from CAP in 2008; 550 farmers and companies received more than €100,000 each

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016587.shtml

IrishAm

Ireland received net 40 billion euro from the EU since we joined. How much of that went to the farmers? An awful lot of it.

In 2008, we received 2 billion, but contributed 1.5 into the EU faults. Farmers got 2 billion from CAP.

These lads were also receiving crazy prices so the state could build roads through part of their land, even if it was only a poxy bog. Loads of them are slum landlords too, and are making a packet in rent allowance payments from the state.

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

Eh, its generally a lot more than that.

European Commission data shows Irish companies and farmers received over €2 billion from CAP in 2008; 550 farmers and companies received more than €100,000 each

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016587.shtml

So close, the important word there is companies .Here's the breakdown;)


Some 550 farmers and companies received more than €100,000 each in payments.



Food group Greencore received €83,377,557 - - mainly compensation relating to the end of sugar production. The Irish Dairy Board Co-op was in second place with €6,551,384. Kerry Ingredients Ireland was third with €5,056,628.

Farmers Tom and Aoife Browne from Killeagh, Co Cork received a total of €432,564. Tim Sheahan from Mallow, Co Cork received a total of €381,892.

Other company recipients were were Dublin-based RA Bailey, producer of Baileys Irish Cream, which was paid €2,861,538. Glanbia Foods Society Ltd, based in Dungarvan, Co Waterford received a total of €558,182.

Commercial Mushroom PRS Co-op in Co Monaghan was listed as having received €2,851,824.

Ashbourne Meat Processors received €1,164,792, while Rosderra Irish Meats Group was paid €715,218. A total of €698,123 was paid to Wyeth Nutritionals Ireland in Co Limerick, Co Cavan-based Abbott Ireland received €680,898 and Oliver McAvinia Ltd in Drogheda Co Meath €664,911


Not exactly every farmer generally receiving €40,000, housing and medical now is it? The normal farmers who did receive big payments, what size are the farms, how productive are they, how much do they contribute to the economy? How many people do they employ? Would you rather we import our food?

hairyprincess

El Weirdo wrote: »

As I understand it, the BTEA will essentially replace whatever basic payment she is in receipt of now.

I know when I got it, I went from being on the dole to getting the BTEA. Same amount, iirc.

She will possibly receive an increase for the children, but no more than what she would be getting now and no more than anyone on the dole would be getting.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works but I am open to correction.

It is the maximum amount of whatever payment she is on now, so if she is on OPF, then she will get OPF and allowances for four kids, maintenance is not taken into account. Cost of Education Allowance was reduced to €300 in the last budget

IrishAm

Are you a farmer or the son of a farmer?

IrishAm

The SFP payment is an average of 14,000 euro a year.

So, in the last decade, the average farmer has already received a similar payment from the state as this woman is trying to claim(five bed in Limerick).

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

The SFP payment is an average of 14,000 euro a year.

So, in the last decade, the average farmer has already received a similar payment from the state as this woman is trying to claim(five bed in Limerick).

She has been claiming/council list for how long?
14000/year does not equal 40,000/year + medical + housing /year


How many do they employ?
How much does the goods they produce generate in the economy
Would you rather import food?


How many does Serinna employ?
How much does the goods Serinna produces generate in the economy?
Would you rather import food?


I'm not a farmer, nor a farmers son, and I'm only minding d'farm, till the farming F*cker comes:pac::pac:

IrishAm

micropig wrote: »

14000/year does not equal 40,000/year + medical + housing /year

Its a nice chunk of change. On the one hand you want to be treated like business people and on the other, you want the state to subsidise you.

If you cant make money, you must go out of business, simple as.

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

micropig wrote: »

14000/year does not equal 40,000/year + medical + housing /year

Its a nice chunk of change. On the one hand you want to be treated like business people and on the other, you want the state to subsidise you.

If you cant make money, you must go out of business, simple as.

& if you don't want to get a job you can keeping having children & get a house, holidays & free medical care courtesy of the state;);)right;)


Fairly mountainous country here it Tipperary, not ideal farmland, but the sheep seem to do well;) Have you seen the price lambs are selling at lately:eek::eek:

cofy

Ah come on now are we really going to get into subsidising an industry that produces income compared to someone ............... (I'm sorry words fail me).

micropig

cofy wrote: »

Ah come on now are we really going to get into subsidising an industry that produces income compared to someone ............... (I'm sorry words fail me).

Yes, excuses and reasoning seem to be thin on the ground:D

I hope Limerick Leader do a follow up story:P

IrishAm

micropig wrote: »

& if you don't want to get a job you can keeping having children & get a house, holidays & free medical care courtesy of the state;);)right;)

Do the farmers not receive child benefit and would they not qualify for the medical card too?

I am not a hypocrite. If I wanted children, but couldnt afford them, I wouldnt have them. Until I could afford them.

Same as if I owned a business, but couldnt afford to keep it going, as I was shite at my business, I wouldnt expect the state to subsidise me indefinitely.

The farmers have been looked after better than any other industry/sub-group since the foundation of the state.

A farmer giving out about others sponging off the state is like a junkie lecturing a mormon on the benefits of clean living.

IrishAm

cofy wrote: »

Ah come on now are we really going to get into subsidising an industry that produces income compared to someone ............... (I'm sorry words fail me).

Fairly easy to generate some income when you are you being subsidised by CAP to the tune of 2,000,000,000 per annum.

And the fuckers still scream poverty.

Look up Nama and cross reference the number of lads involved who come from a farming background.

grenache

IrishAm wrote: »

The SFP payment is an average of 14,000 euro a year.

So, in the last decade, the average farmer has already received a similar payment from the state as this woman is trying to claim(five bed in Limerick).

In case you haven't noticed, farmers actually contribute to the state. This woman just leeches off it.

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

Its a nice chunk of change. On the one hand you want to be treated like business people and on the other, you want the state to subsidise you.

If you cant make money, you must go out of business, simple as.

Have you told that to the public sector:pac:
If you can't afford a child you don't have one, simple as
If you can't afford to house more children, stop having them, simple as

IrishAm wrote: »

Do the farmers not receive child benefit and would they not qualify for the medical card too?

Child benefit: yes, it's universal (should be means tested)
Medical Card: It guess it depends on income


How many farmers do you know in council housing?

IrishAm wrote: »

I am not a hypocrite. If I wanted children, but couldnt afford them, I wouldnt have them. Until I could afford them.

Why defend those that do but can not afford them?

IrishAm wrote: »

Same as if I owned a business, but couldnt afford to keep it going, as I was shite at my business, I wouldnt expect the state to subsidise me indefinitely.

The farmers have been looked after better than any other industry/sub-group since the foundation of the state.

A farmer giving out about others sponging off the state is like a junkie lecturing a mormon on the benefits of clean living.

So import food and all farmers on the dole..sounds like a plan. Where you ever approached to be a government advisor?


Food industry & related jobs would be gone aswell,good thinking

Logical Fallacy

grenache wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed, farmers actually contribute to the state. This woman just leeches off it.

But she is making babies etc.

IrishAm

micropig wrote: »

Why defend those that do but can not afford them?

I didnt defend anyone. I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Is this young lady not looking to go back to education and eventually become a taxpayer?

Ergo, will she then not need further subsidising?

micropig wrote: »

So import food and all farmers on the dole..sounds like a plan. Where you ever approached to be a government advisor?

The competent will survive, the useless will not.

Thats how business works, right?

Too many useless fat lads, rooting around in the rushes, driving around using green diesel and living off subsidises just because his daddy gave him some land and hes part of a particular voting bloc. Load of bollix.

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

I didnt defend anyone. I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Is this young lady not looking to go back to education and eventually become a taxpayer?

Eventually...hopefully, what's does her partner do? Is he working?

IrishAm wrote: »

Ergo, will she then not need further subsidising?

I don't know, I am not privy to her future earnings, and neither are you

IrishAm wrote: »

The competent will survive, the useless will not.

So people who recklessly produce children & expect the state to pick up the tab are competent and those who plan for their children are not ..OK

IrishAm wrote: »

Thats how business works, right?

Yes this is exactly how business works, the business of making babies:pac:

IrishAm wrote: »

Too many useless fat lads, rooting around in the rushes, driving around using green diesel and living off subsidises just because his daddy gave him some land and hes part of a particular voting bloc. Load of bollix.

:pac: Any links?


* Heads out to fill up car with green diesel & party with my particular voting bloc crew:D

cofy

IrishAm wrote: »

Do the farmers not receive child benefit and would they not qualify for the medical card too?

I am not a hypocrite. If I wanted children, but couldnt afford them, I wouldnt have them. Until I could afford them.

Same as if I owned a business, but couldnt afford to keep it going, as I was shite at my business, I wouldnt expect the state to subsidise me indefinitely.

The farmers have been looked after better than any other industry/sub-group since the foundation of the state.

A farmer giving out about others sponging off the state is like a junkie lecturing a mormon on the benefits of clean living.

I'm not sure about who you are referring to here, but just because you qualify for child benefit does not mean you qualify for the medical card too. Every one who has a child in living in Ireland qualifys for the child benefit.

I am not a farmer, a farmers daughter, nor a farmers wife. My brother in law is a farmer, as are my neighbours, I see them work morning, noon and night.

Have you ever even been on a farm?

grenache

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

But she is making babies etc.

And? Each one of which will cost the state more in child benefits, and all of whom will probably grow up to be a dole scrounging leeches just like their mother.

micropig

cofy wrote: »

I see them work morning, noon and night.

farmers work the exact same amount of hours these people don't 24 hours a day 365/6 days a year, rarely can get away over night without hiring some one in to do the milking..never mid a week in Spain /Disneyland courtesy of the tax payer

IrishAm

micropig wrote: »

Eventually...hopefully, what's does her partner do? Is he working?

Sells crack to blind kids and works overtime releiving grannies of their handbags.

The fuck am I meant to know what her partner does?

micropig wrote: »

I don't know, I am not privy to her future earnings, and neither are you

Hence the reason I used a question mark. Attending college courses would give the impression that she hopes, one day, to re-join the workforce.

micropig wrote: »

So people who recklessly produce children & expect the state to pick up the tab are competent and those who plan for their children are not ..OK

I didnt say that. Reread my post. I was referring to those fat incompetent farmer lads who would go out of business if their subsidises were cut.

micropig wrote: »

:pac: Any links?

No, no I made that up. No farmer has ever inproperly used green diesel or rooted around in the rushes for the day.

micropig wrote: »

* Heads out to fill up car with green diesel & party with my particular voting bloc crew:D

If the farmers are not a voting bloc, then why do they spend millions on sending lobbyists over to Brussels?

IrishAm

cofy wrote: »

I'm not sure about who you are referring to here, but just because you qualify for child benefit does not mean you qualify for the medical card too. Every one who has a child in living in Ireland qualifys for the child benefit.

If a farmer can claim something, chances are he is.

cofy wrote: »

I am not a farmer, a farmers daughter, nor a farmers wife. My brother in law is a farmer, as are my neighbours, I see them work morning, noon and night.

Have you ever even been on a farm?

Then they should do a part time course on time management, stop rooting around in the rushes looking for non existent rats and stop talking garbage for hours on end to any chap that comes within a 100 yard radius of them.

LH Pathe

what about the couple with similar complaint who have 8, due to increase to 10. "I like having babies. My wife likes having babies.." and you can't argue with that. unless...

Does he mean having toddlers about the place albeit for a limited time only, or making them, or teh plopping of them out. Be specific, spunkmonkey

cofy

IrishAm wrote: »

If a farmer can claim something, chances are he is.



Then they should do a part time course on time management, stop rooting around in the rushes looking for non existent rats and stop talking garbage for hours on end to any chap that comes within a 100 yard radius of them.

Ah I get you now your a TROLL:D:D:D

grenache

IrishAm wrote: »

If a farmer can claim something, chances are he is.



Then they should do a part time course on time management, stop rooting around in the rushes looking for non existent rats and stop talking garbage for hours on end to any chap that comes within a 100 yard radius of them.

You don't half talk a load of sh*te. Did a cow pi$$ on your head some time, to say that you have such a hatred of the very industry that's helping to keep this country alive at the minute? Probably not, judging from the rubbish you spout, you've never dirtied your hands, nevermind set foot on a farm.

IrishAm

cofy wrote: »

Ah I get you now your a TROLL:D:D:D

And you are a typical culchie who looks up to the local farmer, parish priest and publican as some sort of pillar of the community.

When they are anything but.

Sad, really.

micropig

IrishAm wrote: »

Sells crack to blind kids and works overtime releiving grannies of their handbags.

The fuck am I meant to know what her partner does?

It made no mention of him working, so...we'll assume he has no sidelines and his income is from benefit

IrishAm wrote: »

Hence the reason I used a question mark. Attending college courses would give the impression that she hopes, one day, to re-join the workforce.

What's the job situation for nurses at the moment? Don't you have to qualify as a nurse first and then go on to do midwifery post grad? Funding has been cut for a lot of post grads. That's nearly 6 years of college ahead before earning so thing may have changed, there may be more children


Totally off topic but:

IrishAm wrote: »

I didnt say that. Reread my post. I was referring to those fat incompetent farmer lads who would go out of business if their subsidises were cut.

Oh right!

IrishAm wrote: »

No, no I made that up. No farmer has ever inproperly used green diesel or rooted around in the rushes for the day.

Is it widespread this 'rooting around in the rushes'. Do the farmers think they are ducks? I don't know..some sort of disorder?

IrishAm wrote: »

If the farmers are not a voting bloc, then why do they spend millions on sending lobbyists over to Brussels?

I don't know much about what the farmers are lobbying about TBH but http://www.ifa.ie/"]this website might help inform you further

IrishAm

grenache wrote: »

You don't half talk a load of sh*te. Did a cow pi$$ on your head some time, to say that you have such a hatred of the very industry that's helping to keep this country alive at the minute? Probably not, judging from the rubbish you spout, you've never dirtied your hands, nevermind set foot on a farm.

If it is keeping us alive, then why does it need to be subsidised to such an extent?

I mightn't have ever worked on a farm, but Ive worked to subsidise them. And will have to do so for as long as I remain in this country.

cofy

IrishAm wrote: »

And you are a typical culchie who looks up to the local farmer, parish priest and publican as some sort of pillar of the community.

When they are anything but.

Sad, really.

Deluded assumptions at best.:pac:

grenache

IrishAm wrote: »

If it is keeping us alive, then why does it need to be subsidised to such an extent?

I mightn't have ever worked on a farm, but Ive worked to subsidise them. And will have to do so for as long as I remain in this country.

Did you ever think that the middle man i.e. the milk dairies, meat companies, etc, are giving the farmers a relatively poor price for their produce? A 2 litre bottle of milk costs on average 1.60 in the supermarket - farmers get 30c of that. Now, you tell me how farmers are expected to survive without receiving subsidies, when the middle man is creaming it and taking the farmer, and the country, for a ride!

cofy

IrishAm wrote: »

And you are a typical culchie who looks up to the local farmer, parish priest and publican as some sort of pillar of the community.

When they are anything but.

Sad, really.

Yes I am a culchie. I do respect my neighbours who have been there for us through hard times.

Parish Priest - I am not a fan - I will pm you to tell you why.

Local publican - definitely not a fan.

As I have already said - you are making unfair assumptions.

grenache

IrishAm wrote: »

And you are a typical culchie who looks up to the local farmer, parish priest and publican as some sort of pillar of the community.

When they are anything but.

Sad, really.

No what is sad is your extremely narrow-minded and cliched ridden view of people who live in the country.

From the sounds of it you rarely leave your urban jungle.

You'd do well to get out into the country once in a while. The fresh air might knock some sense into you.

IrishAm

grenache wrote: »

Did you ever think that the middle man i.e. the milk dairies, meat companies, etc, are giving the farmers a relatively poor price for their produce? A 2 litre bottle of milk costs on average 1.60 in the supermarket - farmers get 30c of that. Now, you tell me how farmers are expected to survive without receiving subsidies, when the middle man is creaming it and taking the farmer, and the country, for a ride!

We would all be better off if these subsidies were scrapped and food prices were allowed to find their own level. The average joe is scrimping on by, paying his rent and subsidising these chaps just because their great granda was part of a land grab during the WoI. Load of bollix.