Gamsat 2013

DeadEight

Riibiik wrote: »

...individuals such as myself who haven't grasped how the CAO works yet (I am foreign and the systems I have used previously were quite different).

From the CAO Handbook (http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index10.htm)

It is MOST IMPORTANT that you state your course choices in view of genuine preference and/or career plans. IT IS A MISTAKE to base your choices only on your present expectation of examination performance or the points levels of previous years.

Graduate Entry Medicine is based on pecking order. Those with the highest GAMSAT score get their first preference, until the places in one of the courses are exhausted. At that point they start to award second preferences where necessary, until all places are gone.

There may be more rounds, based on an offer being refused. If you are offered your second preference in round one there is no penalty in accepting it. In round two (or three, etc) you can still be offered your first preference. In fact, this has happened after students have started the academic year! Effectively, you get first refusal. However, you might not get a second offer. You will never be offered a course where you already have been offered a higher preference course. When they say order of Preference, they really mean it.

Confused?

House_QC

DeadEight wrote: »

From the CAO Handbook (http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index10.htm)



Graduate Entry Medicine is based on pecking order. Those with the highest GAMSAT score get their first preference, until the places in one of the courses are exhausted. At that point they start to award second preferences where necessary, until all places are gone.

There may be more rounds, based on an offer being refused. If you are offered your second preference in round one there is no penalty in accepting it. In round two (or three, etc) you can still be offered your first preference. In fact, this has happened after students have started the academic year! Effectively, you get first refusal. However, you might not get a second offer. You will never be offered a course where you already have been offered a higher preference course. When they say order of Preference, they really mean it.

Confused?

I can understand the confusion on the part of non-Irish residents. Certainly, the CAO system as a whole is less efficient and less straightforward than the UK's UCAS system, for example. Even the CAO guidelines are not 100% definitive compared to the UCAS one.

It's certainly a different system to one I'm used to. I understand that some people think that it is more fair than one where the top students can receive multiple offers and then choose the best one at the last minute. I prefer the latter system because it keeps my options open until I'm sure about which university I want to attend. It's a question of preference, however.

At the moment, my first choice is UCD, followed by RCSI and UCC. UL is my last choice and I don't fancy PBL. A hybrid or mixed methodology would be best I think. It seems there is little qualitative difference between the courses at UCD, RCSI and UCC. The key question, therefore, is whether I want to live in Dublin or Cork including, whether I am willing to pay the extra accommodation and living expenses associated with the former.

I'd rather live in Dublin quite frankly especially as I have good friends there and I wonder whether the clinical exposure would be preferable in Dublin given its more cosmopolitan nature vis-a-vis Cork. I don't know much about Cork at all but I'm doing my research now.

As a few participants are at pains to point out, it's up to each of us to do our own research, which of course we are all doing. But surely there's no harm in asking a few questions on the forum as well to help speed up or better inform our research? As long as we don't keep on asking relatively ignorant questions, I think we should all be more encouraging towards those who are not so familiar yet with the Irish system.

Anyway, good luck to you all. I have a 62 overall so hopeful of passing the threshold for UCD and UCC... although it may not be enough for RCSI I think.

Cheers.

Riibiik

pc11 wrote: »

Ok, calm down, no need to overreact like that. I, and the other user who replied to you, are pointing out that you need to do some research of your own, regardless of where you went to college before. The information is freely available and it's your duty to understand it.

I'm sorry if you feel that I've overreacted-Maybe I am a little sensitive as you seem to imply that I have no place in college if I am unable to find this information on my own.

DeadEight wrote: »

From the CAO Handbook (http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index10.htm)

Graduate Entry Medicine is based on pecking order. Those with the highest GAMSAT score get their first preference, until the places in one of the courses are exhausted. At that point they start to award second preferences where necessary, until all places are gone.

There may be more rounds, based on an offer being refused. If you are offered your second preference in round one there is no penalty in accepting it. In round two (or three, etc) you can still be offered your first preference. In fact, this has happened after students have started the academic year! Effectively, you get first refusal. However, you might not get a second offer. You will never be offered a course where you already have been offered a higher preference course. When they say order of Preference, they really mean it.

Confused?

Thank you for clearing up the confusion!

House_QC wrote: »

I can understand the confusion on the part of non-Irish residents. Certainly, the CAO system as a whole is less efficient and less straightforward than the UK's UCAS system, for example. Even the CAO guidelines are not 100% definitive compared to the UCAS one.

It's certainly a different system to one I'm used to. I understand that some people think that it is more fair than one where the top students can receive multiple offers and then choose the best one at the last minute. I prefer the latter system because it keeps my options open until I'm sure about which university I want to attend. It's a question of preference, however.

At the moment, my first choice is UCD, followed by RCSI and UCC. UL is my last choice and I don't fancy PBL. A hybrid or mixed methodology would be best I think. It seems there is little qualitative difference between the courses at UCD, RCSI and UCC. The key question, therefore, is whether I want to live in Dublin or Cork including, whether I am willing to pay the extra accommodation and living expenses associated with the former.

I'd rather live in Dublin quite frankly especially as I have good friends there and I wonder whether the clinical exposure would be preferable in Dublin given its more cosmopolitan nature vis-a-vis Cork. I don't know much about Cork at all but I'm doing my research now.

As a few participants are at pains to point out, it's up to each of us to do our own research, which of course we are all doing. But surely there's no harm in asking a few questions on the forum as well to help speed up or better inform our research? As long as we don't keep on asking relatively ignorant questions, I think we should all be more encouraging towards those who are not so familiar yet with the Irish system.

Anyway, good luck to you all. I have a 62 overall so hopeful of passing the threshold for UCD and UCC... although it may not be enough for RCSI I think.

Cheers.

Thank you all for your input, very useful comments (yes, you too pc11, though diplomacy clearly isn't your forte). Best of luck to everyone!

beardedmaster

House_QC wrote: »

Certainly, the CAO system as a whole is less efficient and less straightforward than the UK's UCAS system, for example.

I don't think I get this at all... it seems very efficient to me, to be honest. You apply to the Central Applications Office, and they make sure that only one University gets back to you, the one with your most preferred course that you are eligible for. There's none of the individual too-and and fro-ing between one person and multiple Universities, with each of them sending multiple acceptances and declines.

Plus we get 10 choices for Level 8 courses to apply to (Honours Bachelor degree standard). 10!

I'm not looking for an argument - that's all I'm saying. But I think saying that it's less efficient or straightforward than another system is a bit of a folly - it all depends on what you're used to.

House_QC

beardedmaster wrote: »

I don't think I get this at all... it seems very efficient to me, to be honest. You apply to the Central Applications Office, and they make sure that only one University gets back to you, the one with your most preferred course that you are eligible for. There's none of the individual too-and and fro-ing between one person and multiple Universities, with each of them sending multiple acceptances and declines.

Plus we get 10 choices for Level 8 courses to apply to (Honours Bachelor degree standard). 10!

I'm not looking for an argument - that's all I'm saying. But I think saying that it's less efficient or straightforward than another system is a bit of a folly - it all depends on what you're used to.

Haha! Yeah, it's totally arguable

My opinion is just based on my own experience with both systems, especially as I was in Australia at the time and I had to make more queries directly with CAO than with UCAS re: documents, etc. I'm sure plenty of others have found the opposite to be true.

Flange/Flanders

I have to say I've had nothing but good experiences of the CAO, I got the letter last year saying that due to lack of documentation I was inelligible, rang them up to clarify and it was just that I didnt get my parchment certified, all grand after that. The day the offers came out last year, I was expecting an offer from limerick but my account was acting up. Some high up fella rang me up and was very apologetic about my account not working, he apologised about 3 times and I wasnt even giving out!

Dreamer4

Hey does anybody have any experience applying for or know anybody successful in obtaining the Limerick scholarship? I know this has been discussed in other threads but as this is a more recent discussion I thought I'd ask,
also does anybody know how the loan is handed over I.e. cheque payable to college, cash( wahoo off to the Bahamas) or just direct money transfer to said college (booo).
And finally campus or private accommodation? What are we thinking??

eire_245

Dreamer4 wrote: »

Hey does anybody have any experience applying for or know anybody successful in obtaining the Limerick scholarship? I know this has been discussed in other threads but as this is a more recent discussion I thought I'd ask,
also does anybody know how the loan is handed over I.e. cheque payable to college, cash( wahoo off to the Bahamas) or just direct money transfer to said college (booo).
And finally campus or private accommodation? What are we thinking??

yep know a few people with the scholarship! its such a huge amount of money that if i could do it all again UL and that scholarship would have been my first choice! Cant emphasise enough how big a deal finances are!

loan is sent directly from UB to UL you never get to see the money as its paid directly for fees.

Campus v Off campus is a tough one, defnately cheaper off campus, quigley the accom beside the med school is very nice and literally seconds away from the new med building but expensive and you will literally be around med 24/7 but its a personal choice really

Dreamer4

I think on campus could be good for someone like myself, poor time management, (forget laptop 30s walk back ect) especially for 1st year, then maybe get to know few classmates of similar mindset to share house with,

Wonder how many scholarships are on offer, also I think the curve is a little bit to the left ie lower points this year but I would not want to get anybody with boarder line scores hopes up, ( if I am incorrect I'm sorry and accept criticism)

eire_245

Dreamer4 wrote: »

I think on campus could be good for someone like myself, poor time management, (forget laptop 30s walk back ect) especially for 1st year, then maybe get to know few classmates of similar mindset to share house with,

Wonder how many scholarships are on offer, also I think the curve is a little bit to the left ie lower points this year but I would not want to get anybody with boarder line scores hopes up, ( if I am incorrect I'm sorry and accept criticism)

yep could be a good choice for 1st year! id say there is between 5-10 scholarships on offer....but you dont find out you have it until after you start as far as i know! there should be a university of limerick class of 2017 for you to join, will be loads of info and you get to meet some of your new canadian class mates already on there!

welcome to UL

Dreamer4

eire_245 wrote: »

yep could be a good choice for 1st year! id say there is between 5-10 scholarships on offer....but you dont find out you have it until after you start as far as i know! there should be a university of limerick class of 2017 for you to join, will be loads of info and you get to meet some of your new canadian class mates already on there!

welcome to UL

Cool!thanks, Is that a Facebook page? Getting excited now! Just need to keep saving for next few months... facilities look great in ul.

chips365

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

Dreamer4

chips365 wrote: »

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

If you can cycle a bike it's because you got up after falling off,

Hypnos

chips365 wrote: »

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

I wouldn't be too bummed out about it. I don't think the GAMSAT indicates how competent you would be as a doctor. I think it just adds a tough obstacle in the way so that the course isn't saturated. This way the people that work hard and persevere at the GAMSAT stand out and end up passing because they try it again and don't give up as soon as they hit difficulty.

If you really want to do it (and you know yourself) you will sit it again and if you're like me for a 3rd time. It pays off. I'd spend time working on it a few times a week over the summer. Keep your head up. Very few people get it on their first go.

WoolahUrma

chips365 wrote: »

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

Well boss!!

Sounds like you didn't learn the exam timing/ how to structure your essays effectively. I got 59 total. That was down to timing for the science especially and I used an essay correction service in the weeks prior to the exam. This was the most important thing for me. I got 69 written. I'm non science and it was my first time.

The science was a bitch for me but if you internalize your timing and polish up you essay structure, you'll fly it

Hypnos

WoolahUrma wrote: »

Well boss!!

Sounds like you didn't learn the exam timing/ how to structure your essays effectively. I got 59 total. That was down to timing for the science especially and I used an essay correction service in the weeks prior to the exam. This was the most important thing for me. I got 69 written. I'm non science and it was my first time.

The science was a bitch for me but if you internalize your timing and polish up you essay structure, you'll fly it

He's right on this. Timing is the most important thing you need to control during the exam. It's not a coincidence that my worst score was when my timing was off and I was spending too much time on hard questions and too little on the ones I found easier and I missed out on loads of questions I could have potentially answered because I was stubbornly trying to work out the ones I couldn't (S1 + 3).

I got 70 in S2 this time around. As a science student this is definitely what saved me as S1 is my weak spot. A little drop from the last time because of the more abstract essay topics, but I just prepared lots of little essays on a wide range of topics across the spectrum (poverty, war, education, humor, welfare etc) and these can cross over into more specific topics. I had an assertive tone and a bit more articulate expressions and language than I'd normally use and it payed off. I think Section 2 is the section that can make or break anyone. It's the one section where everyone has to most potential to accumulate marks.

But sure give it another go. Practice timing on S1+3 in particular and expression on a spectrum of topics in S2 and you'll get though it and find out your biggest weakness in the exam and start working on it. Everyone has the potential to do well. Some of use just need more time.

letsdothis

chips365 wrote: »

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

Well I'm non-science (A bad science junior cert in the 90s, anyone?) and have only started in the last few weeks for September so if I believe it's doable, you have to too! You've an extra year to save now and 2 more attempts at the exam so why wouldn't it be possible? Learn from where you went wrong and focus on those areas - like was already said question practice looks like it's crucial for you because you ran out of time so start gathering the questions together and do them under timed conditions. I'm not at the stage yet where I can really answer SIII questions but I'm working on SI and II under timed conditions a couple of times per week and will (hopefully) be in a position to do the same with SIII in about a months time (assimilation of Organic Chemistry pending...)

If this is what you really want, dust yourself off and get back into it. Who knows, might be seeing you in UL in 2014

Hypnos

Anyone who is a non-science student and is planning on sitting it again, I can't recommend the youtube channel "Khan Academy" enough. It is a really helpful tool for grasping concepts in science quickly. Helped with the Physics for sure, and I owe it credit considering there were a few questions on that exam in Physics that I learned off that channel and wouldn't be able to understand possibly from a book, being an amateur in Physics.

pc11

chips365 wrote: »

My first attempt this year, got 51, 50 and i'm ashamed to say 39 for the science. I knew my science was terrible i ran out of time. No prep for section 2 really and completely flunked the question on boredom (think i wrote maybe 2.5 paragraphs. I knew the science information but just didn't practice the questions. Anyone care to give me a confidence boost or am i wasting my time pursuing this for GAMSAT UK. And a massive congrats to everyone!

Ok, here's the tough love answer. Only you can answer whether it's a waste of time. Given what you told us, you didn't put in any serious prep and frankly you got a bad score. Dressing it up any other way would do you no favours. I think your trouble was more than poor timing.

Now, you can get up and register for the UK in September, and if you're serious about this, you would be crazy not to. But, if you found it so hard to get going the last time, you need to ask yourself some tough questions: why was it so hard to do the work? why did you do so little prep? do you *really* want this?

These are not questions to answer here. You need to think about them yourself and get the true answers. If you want this, you should go hard for it. But, if it's just not there, that's ok; it's not for everyone. I don't yet know if it's definitely for me either but at least I got the score.

It's your life, your call. Good luck. This is a tough process, it's not easy for anyone.

WoolahUrma

Big shout out for the khan academy from me too. Professional grinds tutors take a good gander at it. Great site and yes again, the essay seems to be somewhere to really carve out a score. If you have a knack for language you have to grove the structure that works for you. That means practice a lot as has already been mentioned above.

I would think that you need to be tough to resit this one. Don't bother if your not 100% committed. Well done again to everyone

RoundBox11

pc11 wrote: »

Ok, here's the tough love answer. Only you can answer whether it's a waste of time. Given what you told us, you didn't put in any serious prep and frankly you got a bad score. Dressing it up any other way would do you no favours. I think your trouble was more than poor timing.

Now, you can get up and register for the UK in September, and if you're serious about this, you would be crazy not to. But, if you found it so hard to get going the last time, you need to ask yourself some tough questions: why was it so hard to do the work? why did you do so little prep? do you *really* want this?

These are not questions to answer here. You need to think about them yourself and get the true answers. If you want this, you should go hard for it. But, if it's just not there, that's ok; it's not for everyone. I don't yet know if it's definitely for me either but at least I got the score.

It's your life, your call. Good luck. This is a tough process, it's not easy for anyone.

Extremely condescending and self righteous post there buddy.

Way to encourage the person!

WoolahUrma

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Extremely condescending and self righteous post there buddy.

Way to encourage the person!

Gotta disagree with you on that one. If someone wants to kick on for gamsat they're gonna need to be hardy enough to take some realistic suggestions on

pc11

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Extremely condescending and self righteous post there buddy.

Way to encourage the person!

If you read my post like that, I'm afraid you will struggle with Section I of the GAMSAT.

Riibiik

pc11 wrote: »

If you read my post like that, I'm afraid you will struggle with Section I of the GAMSAT.

I'm afraid you might struggle with other aspects of life if you assume and expect everyone to be as tough-skinned as you are. Some people are sensitive, some less so. As we say in French, it takes all kinds to make a world.

pc11

Riibiik wrote: »

I'm sorry if you feel that I've overreacted-Maybe I am a little sensitive as you seem to imply that I have no place in college if I am unable to find this information on my own...

Thank you all for your input, very useful comments (yes, you too pc11, though diplomacy clearly isn't your forte).

My post wasn't intended to be 'diplomatic'. It was intended to tell you about the reality of GEM and of getting into it and how you need to find out about it. And it's funny how you're blind to the other posters telling you the same thing.

I have taken it on myself to read everything I could, to visit every college, to call the admissions offices and banks multiple times with questions, and talk to other students. Many other here have done the same.

I have contributed actively to this forum for more than a year. I have researched GEM carefully and shared much of what I've learned here, and received more information in turn. I have probably worked on getting into GEM every single day for 15 months, on saving money, finding funding, planning to look after others, deciding whether to give up my life for this. I have made mistakes and learned from them. I have changed my life to pursue this. I travelled to the UK to take the GAMSAT when I was so ill I could barely stand. Yeah, I'm a bloody martyr.

Maybe I'm expecting too much to expect others to do the same. If you have questions, ask them, but do your homework and meet us half way and you'll learn way more. There are dozens of people on here who have done this; they got their GAMSAT today and they are psyched. At the risk of speaking for them, they don't have time to help someone who won't help themselves.

And it will help to learn to take criticism before you become a doctor. And read the damned CAO site, for your own sake, before it's too late. Or not, it's up to you.

SunshineGirl22

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Extremely condescending and self righteous post there buddy.

Way to encourage the person!

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm incredibly disheartened after reading many responses on this thread and other older threads. I'm happy with my score today and I will hopefully be starting Medicine this year.

Being realistic is one thing. Being arrogant is another. The last time I checked, the ability to feel empathy is fundamental for a career in medicine.

For those who are disappointed today, there is nothing to lose by trying again. You will eventually get it. In my opinion, the GAMSAT exam does not accurately define a person's intelligence or aptitude towards the career. Some people get it first time, most don't. It's hit and miss. As someone said before on this thread - it is simply an obstacle.

pc11

Riibiik wrote: »

I'm afraid you might struggle with other aspects of life if you assume and expect everyone to be as tough-skinned as you are. Some people are sensitive, some less so. As we say in French, it takes all kinds to make a world.

You think I'm tough-skinned? No, I'm not actually, and I struggle with life as much as everyone.

I know what I wrote was true and of more use to the poster than platitudes. I am confident he will realise that.

RoundBox11

pc11 wrote: »

If you read my post like that, I'm afraid you will struggle with Section I of the GAMSAT.

Haha well lucky for me i dont need to do the GAMSAT then eh?

I think your case and point that Ireland really needs to have interviews as part of the application process

pc11

SunshineGirl22 wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm incredibly disheartened after reading many responses on this thread and other older threads. I'm happy with my score today and I will hopefully be starting Medicine this year.

Being realistic is one thing. Being arrogant is another. The last time I checked, the ability to feel empathy is fundamental for a career in medicine.

For those who are disappointed today, there is nothing to lose by trying again. You will eventually get it. In my opinion, the GAMSAT exam does not accurately define a person's intelligence or aptitude towards the career. Some people get it first time, most don't. It's hit and miss. As someone said before on this thread - it is simply an obstacle.

I was being nothing but empathic. I have been in exactly the same boat as the poster. I was writing from bitter experience of my own. What I needed was a strong dose of reality, to decide what I really wanted, and how to pursue it.

I was supporting him in the possibility that maybe GEM is not for him and that's ok. This is exactly what he asked for. I was typoreflecting to him that his difficulty in prepping well sounded like he didn't truly want it. That may be wrong, of course, only he can know that ultimately.

I'm all for repeating GAMSAT, I have written many posts urging exactly that. But, I am also urging realism and facing up to what needs to be done.

I'm baffled if you read my post as arrogant, sorry.

And I didn't say anything about what the GAMSAT measures. But the reality is you need to do well in it to get in, nothing can change that. If he wants this, he has to find a way to do that.

Hypnos

pc11 wrote: »

I was being nothing but empathic. I have been in exactly the same boat as the poster. I was writing from bitter experience of my own. What I needed was a strong dose of reality, to decide what I really wanted, and how to pursue it.

I was supporting him in the possibility that maybe GEM is not for him and that's ok. This is exactly what he asked for. I was reflecting to him that his difficulty in prepping well sounded like he didn't truly want it. That may be wring, only he can know that ultimately.

I'm all for repeating GAMSAT, I have written many posts urging exactly that. But, I am also urging realism and facing up to what needs to be done.

I'm baffled if you read my post as arrogant, sorry.

And I didn't say anything about what the GAMSAT measures. But the reality is you need to do well in it to get in, nothing can change that. If he wants this, he has to find a way to do that.

I think that chips is a she