Gamsat 2013

Hypnos

House_QC wrote: »

I don't think it's up to individual practitioners to carry the burden for an unsustainable system. It's a political issue and should be taken up by politicians at the behest of those who suffer, i.e. patients and clinicians alike. So by all means agitate for reform but don't suffer needlessly and accept relatively inhumane working conditions and low salaries if you don't have to. That would be unreasonable.

Ok I understand where you're coming from but did you not think that being a doctor would be intense with a lot of lost sleep and stress from time to time. The only thing that bothers me is they fail to pay you for overtime and still expect your presence. I wouldn't call the working conditions here "inhumane". No doubt they are unfair and it's not your fault but if it's a political issue and if they were intent on solving it they would have already. Primary concern for them is to keep the cash flow going their way and fluck the rest. If you pull your weight as an intern and do well you can go into private practice where it's a lot easier and less stressful with more money. I do think that in 4 years the situation will be better than it is now. Can't get much worse as it is, but I know about the "horror" stories the interns talk about and it still doesn't turn me off the career path.

Agnieszka_88

Hypnos wrote: »

Ok I understand where you're coming from but did you not think that being a doctor would be intense with a lot of lost sleep and stress from time to time. The only thing that bothers me is they fail to pay you for overtime and still expect your presence. I wouldn't call the working conditions here "inhumane". No doubt they are unfair and it's not your fault but if it's a political issue and if they were intent on solving it they would have already. Primary concern for them is to keep the cash flow going their way and fluck the rest. If you pull your weight as an intern and do well you can go into private practice where it's a lot easier and less stressful with more money. I do think that in 4 years the situation will be better than it is now. Can't get much worse as it is, but I know about the "horror" stories the interns talk about and it still doesn't turn me off the career path.

The thing that makes me want to leave Ireland after school right now is not the working conditions (although the fact that the contracts are being broken, hours unpaid, and everyone is too scared to really protest is simply disgusting) or the wages (lets face it, 80k is a lot of money), it's the fact that the chances of making consultant level at our age, after gradmed, is practically impossible. There are no free consultant posts, and when one opens, the competition is huge. We will have a 60+k euro debt and about 10 years of career building less than a "normal" graduate, so no fancy US fellowships for us, there is no way we will ever make it in Ireland. I won't even mention that consultant posts tend to stay "in the family", at least in smaller hospitals.
There will be no positive change in the HSE, the people that really make the decisions have no interest in it. There will be some cosmetic measures, but the whole thing must collapse completely before things get better, and I do not want to be here when this whole ship sinks.

House_QC

Hypnos wrote: »

Ok I understand where you're coming from but did you not think that being a doctor would be intense with a lot of lost sleep and stress from time to time. The only thing that bothers me is they fail to pay you for overtime and still expect your presence. I wouldn't call the working conditions here "inhumane". No doubt they are unfair and it's not your fault but if it's a political issue and if they were intent on solving it they would have already. Primary concern for them is to keep the cash flow going their way and fluck the rest. If you pull your weight as an intern and do well you can go into private practice where it's a lot easier and less stressful with more money. I do think that in 4 years the situation will be better than it is now. Can't get much worse as it is, but I know about the "horror" stories the interns talk about and it still doesn't turn me off the career path.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying. My issue is that if you have the opportunity to work in another country which has better working conditions and/or higher salaries, then surely it is perfectly reasonable to take advantage of those opportunities? I did say "relatively inhumane" after all, i.e. relative to others in different countries. Of course, in other countries, conditions may be similar or even worse so each opportunity would have to be analysed on a case-by-case basis.

Anyway, of course it doesn't put me off medicine but it's certainly worth investigating to make sure we're not closing out our future options by studying in Ireland. From what I've read so far, it seems that there shouldn't be many problems working abroad afterwards if that's what we wanted. So, it looks increasingly likely that I will take the plunge and study in Ireland come September (if I'm offered a place of course!).

So RCSI, UCD or UCC? That is the question.

House_QC

PS - It's a question of being able to lobby successfully the government to firstly consider change, set up a study group with all relevant stakeholders to analyse this question, and finally to implement such changes by passing a bill/amendment in parliament. There has to be a lot of motivation for change. It will not be dealt with overnight. Ultimately, there has to be an economic imperative to implement change as well.

I certainly don't want to get involved in this except to support any proposed reforms. I want to become a doctor, not a politician or advocate. One of the reasons I'm going into medicine is because I want to get away from politics, law, etc. We can't do everything ourselves. I don't want to waste my life fighting for others, honourable though that may be. I want complete my objectives in life which in turn will help others on a much smaller scale. I gladly leave the rest to politicians, lobbyists, pressure groups, etc.

House_QC

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

The thing that makes me want to leave Ireland after school right now is not the working conditions (although the fact that the contracts are being broken, hours unpaid, and everyone is too scared to really protest is simply disgusting) or the wages (lets face it, 80k is a lot of money), it's the fact that the chances of making consultant level at our age, after gradmed, is practically impossible. There are no free consultant posts, and when one opens, the competition is huge. We will have a 60+k euro debt and about 10 years of career building less than a "normal" graduate, so no fancy US fellowships for us, there is no way we will ever make it in Ireland. I won't even mention that consultant posts tend to stay "in the family", at least in smaller hospitals.
There will be no positive change in the HSE, the people that really make the decisions have no interest in it. There will be some cosmetic measures, but the whole thing must collapse completely before things get better, and I do not want to be here when this whole ship sinks.

I'm curious about this notion that as grad-med doctors, we would not be able to successfully challenge for a consultant position eventually. Is that really true? Does the criteria for being a consultant include length of service afterwards? Surely if one is good enough, a consultant post is not beyond the realms of possibility? Is it not then a meritocracy after all? Is nepotism and corruption really that rife in the medical profession? Networking is part and parcel with all professions but if it's more than that, then that really is problematic.

I think we ought to be more positive anyway. Yes, the system - nay, all human created systems - is not ideal. But, nothing is perfect in this world except perhaps the universe itself. So, all we can do is make the best of what comes and make sure that we retain an objective perspective in anything we do. Make connections, be reasonable but don't lose sight of our place within the universe. Existence is unique after all. It will never happen again (at least not that I'm aware of). Embrace it, dread it, live it. Ultimately, there is no objective meaning to life or death. All we can do is subjectively create our own meaning and accept that that is never going to fully satiate our curiosity or quest for something more...

Hypnos

I guess I never looked at it from that perspective. Well the average gradmed student is 25 and graduates by the age of 29. To get to the consultant level you're looking at 10-11 years right? I think we ought to be more qualified for consultant positions. Older with more education and more experience. It would seem illogical if it wasn't that way. I'm lucky in the sense that I'll be still 21 towards the end of 1st year GEM if everything goes smoothly from herein.

UCD is more internationally recognized and a higher rank university and RCSI interacts with you more personally so I don't know. I'm leaning towards UCD since that was my undergrad home.

One of the reasons I'm going into medicine is because I want to get away from politics, law, etc. I will tell you that in 5th and 6th year so the final two years of med you will be studying a lot of law. Medical law. Nowadays everyone wants to sue you. I'm sure it's less boring than it sounds.

House_QC

Luckily, the legal side should come easier for me than those without a legal background.

Anyway, I need to get off this forum. It has a way of sucking you in!

Good luck and maybe see you at med school.

Agnieszka_88

House_QC wrote: »

I'm curious about this notion that as grad-med doctors, we would not be able to successfully challenge for a consultant position eventually. Is that really true? Does the criteria for being a consultant include length of service afterwards? Surely if one is good enough, a consultant post is not beyond the realms of possibility? Is it not then a meritocracy after all? Is nepotism and corruption really that rife in the medical profession? Networking is part and parcel with all professions but if it's more than that, then that really is problematic.

I think we ought to be more positive anyway. Yes, the system - nay, all human created systems - is not ideal. But, nothing is perfect in this world except perhaps the universe itself. So, all we can do is make the best of what comes and make sure that we retain an objective perspective in anything we do. Make connections, be reasonable but don't lose sight of our place within the universe. Existence is unique after all. It will never happen again (at least not that I'm aware of). Embrace it, dread it, live it. Ultimately, there is no objective meaning to life or death. All we can do is subjectively create our own meaning and accept that that is never going to fully satiate our curiosity or quest for something more...

What I mean is that there aren't many free consultant positions, there is quite a "bottleneck" situation, so these 5-10 years additional experience must count somehow in the process, as logically you have less "on the job" experience than other candidates your age. Of course, you have other qualities and experiences, but I'm speaking strictly about your work as a doctor. Excluding all nepotism and so on (and they are rife), based only on your career, it must count towards how your potential employer sees you. After all, a younger employee is usually seen as more dynamic and creative. Of course, you can prove that you are an outstanding candidate, work on your own development, but valuable further education in the medical field is very expensive, and again, most of us will be saddled with a huge debt to pay off.

It's true that nothing in the universe is perfect, but I prefer to make this decision with my eyes wide open. Being positive is great, it helps and motivates, but the path through medicine is going to be harder the later you start, and these are some of the things you can prepare yourself for beforehand. In short: it will not be enough to be just as good as other candidates, we will have to be better and work harder, maybe choose less competitive fields to specialise in. I'm simply being realistic here. Other counties aren't much better, actually, but Ireland is kind of special because there are so little consultant positions on offer and I've read that there are plans to cut them even further.

WoolahUrma

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

The thing that makes me want to leave Ireland after school right now is not the working conditions (although the fact that the contracts are being broken, hours unpaid, and everyone is too scared to really protest is simply disgusting) or the wages (lets face it, 80k is a lot of money), it's the fact that the chances of making consultant level at our age, after gradmed, is practically impossible. There are no free consultant posts, and when one opens, the competition is huge. We will have a 60+k euro debt and about 10 years of career building less than a "normal" graduate, so no fancy US fellowships for us, there is no way we will ever make it in Ireland. I won't even mention that consultant posts tend to stay "in the family", at least in smaller hospitals.
There will be no positive change in the HSE, the people that really make the decisions have no interest in it. There will be some cosmetic measures, but the whole thing must collapse completely before things get better, and I do not want to be here when this whole ship sinks.

Sounds like someone got outta the wrong side of the bed.

There is no merit to much of what you have posted here. Why are you interested in gem if you are this pessimistic about your future?

I know some junior doctors and since getting my score I've spoken to my GP/ family friend. Turns out that the prospects for people that qualify with a degree in medicine are good!! Consultancy is a tough game to get into but as a subsequent poster suggested, there are opportunities for candidates with the right qualifications and experience.

House_QC

Agnieszka_88 wrote: »

What I mean is that there aren't many free consultant positions, there is quite a "bottleneck" situation, so these 5-10 years additional experience must count somehow in the process, as logically you have less "on the job" experience than other candidates your age. Of course, you have other qualities and experiences, but I'm speaking strictly about your work as a doctor. Excluding all nepotism and so on (and they are rife), based only on your career, it must count towards how your potential employer sees you. After all, a younger employee is usually seen as more dynamic and creative. Of course, you can prove that you are an outstanding candidate, work on your own development, but valuable further education in the medical field is very expensive, and again, most of us will be saddled with a huge debt to pay off.

It's true that nothing in the universe is perfect, but I prefer to make this decision with my eyes wide open. Being positive is great, it helps and motivates, but the path through medicine is going to be harder the later you start, and these are some of the things you can prepare yourself for beforehand. In short: it will not be enough to be just as good as other candidates, we will have to be better and work harder, maybe choose less competitive fields to specialise in. I'm simply being realistic here. Other counties aren't much better, actually, but Ireland is kind of special because there are so little consultant positions on offer and I've read that there are plans to cut them even further.

Damn it, Agnieszka! Just when I thought I was free of this forum, you go and make another point that I'm just going to have to reply to.

Why would we be competing with doctors our own age? Surely, we'd be competing with those younger than us and therefore with comparable experience as a doctor? If there is a backlog, and we're competing for positions with those with more experience as a doctor, then yes, I can see that as being a problem. We'd just have to manage that as best as possible. Sleep with the enemy, perhaps?

As for going into a medical career with your "eyes wide open", I totally agree with that. That's exactly why I've been researching my options after med school.

Good luck... and by all means be practical, but come on, this is your shot to be a doctor. If that's your passion, don't let the negatives outweigh the positives before you've even started. It'll be fine. It sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders so to speak. No doubt you'll make the right decision.

WoolahUrma

The point of interest for me here is that there could be better opportunities abroad after gem.

So where do we go to maximise these opportunites? This is the trouble that I'm having right now. Personally, I have no problem with traveling and if the wages, t&c's and prospects are better elsewhere, my only concern is finding the best route over.

This means do I go to ucd or rcsi?

thomasdavis

Does anyone have views on choosing between undergrad med and grad med? Here's the way I see it.

Undergrad
Pros - cheaper fees, less intense and more time for life outside study, can take more time to explore fundamentals of medicine in first 3 years, more time for a part time job
Cons - one extra year

I'm beginning to think that the extra year would be worth it in terms of better quality of life in first 3 years?

Biologic

Hypnos wrote: »

UCD is more internationally recognized and a higher rank university and RCSI interacts with you more personally so I don't know. I'm leaning towards UCD since that was my undergrad home.

One of the reasons I'm going into medicine is because I want to get away from politics, law, etc. I will tell you that in 5th and 6th year so the final two years of med you will be studying a lot of law. Medical law. Nowadays everyone wants to sue you. I'm sure it's less boring than it sounds.

I'd agree that UCD is more internationally recognised as a university, but RCSI is more recognised as a medical school. Also, on the law thing, I'm a final med as of next week and have yet to do any appreciable level of law. I thought it would feature on the curriculum like you did, but essentially they just teach you do be a safe doctor and communicate properly.
Lastly, I think this patriotic view on workin in Ireland to give back to your country, though admirable, is a bit misplaced. The system here seems to screw doctors at every opportunity possible. I started med school with the full intention of staying in Ireland. Now, having seen the realities of career progression, working conditions, attitude from management and the general public, and lack of progress toward a solution, I've decided to bail to the states the hour I get my medical degree and never look back. I don't mean to discourage anyone from doing medicine (it's the best decision I've ever made), but don't enter it doe-eyed thinking that people care about the problems of doctors and are working to fix them. Nobody seems to care and the same problems have been there for ages.

Hypnos

Biologic wrote: »

I'd agree that UCD is more internationally recognised as a university, but RCSI is more recognised as a medical school. Also, on the law thing, I'm a final med as of next week and have yet to do any appreciable level of law. I thought it would feature on the curriculum like you did, but essentially they just teach you do be a safe doctor and communicate properly.
Lastly, I think this patriotic view on workin in Ireland to give back to your country, though admirable, is a bit misplaced. The system here seems to screw doctors at every opportunity possible. I started med school with the full intention of staying in Ireland. Now, having seen the realities of career progression, working conditions, attitude from management and the general public, and lack of progress toward a solution, I've decided to bail to the states the hour I get my medical degree and never look back. I don't mean to discourage anyone from doing medicine (it's the best decision I've ever made), but don't enter it doe-eyed thinking that people care about the problems of doctors and are working to fix them. Nobody seems to care and the same problems have been there for ages.

Oh, I'm completely aware that it's better to do medicine in a medical college. I made a very similar analogy earlier above in comparing J. Hop and Harvard. Though Harvard is higher ranked, a med degree from J.Hop is more impressive than a med one from Harvard since J. Hop is the highest ranked med school. Nothing to deny there. If you were planning to do research as well though and crossover into science from time to time it would be worth your while to seek UCD which has a huge amount of funding.

Ah didn't mean to sound patriotic. I think I might have failed to express myself properly. I'm just slightly* (ever so slightly ) bitching about a lot of people saying they're honored to get a position in med school and dedicated to the program, then say after they're almost in or through "Ehh... Don't like the working conditions here. Gonna leave the first chance I get." I don't blame them from what I hear but do you know how many doctors would be in Ireland if all of them left? I kind of expected it to be pretty sucky for the first 2 years or so after graduation. Isn't that it all careers? Start from the bottom and move up...

Biologic

Hypnos wrote: »

Ah didn't mean to sound patriotic. I think I might have failed to express myself properly. I'm just slightly* (ever so slightly ) bitching about a lot of people saying they're honored to get a position in med school and dedicated to the program, then say after they're almost in or through "Ehh... Don't like the working conditions here. Gonna leave the first chance I get." I don't blame them from what I hear but do you know how many doctors would be in Ireland if all of them left? I kind of expected it to be pretty sucky for the first 2 years or so after graduation. Isn't that it all careers? Start from the bottom and move up...

Sorry the patriotic part wasn't directed at you, it was at the guy who was saying something about Martin Luther King and "ask not what your country can do for you". And I agree with you about the science bit. RCSI does have a pretty comprehensive health/medical sciences department and research building, but not near the scale of UCD.
I get what you're saying about what situation would result from mass medical emigration, but the situation developing now isn't much better. Doctors can't strike because of a weak union, ethical issues and no public support. And they can't effect change from within because of a lame HSE. Couple that with working conditions that are killing doctors, both in terms of suicide and as a byproduct of fatigue (car crashes etc), and you have a situation where doctors feel like they're in a pretty depressing stalemate. In many ways, emigration is the only option open to doctors, not only to improve their own plight, but also as a form of protest about current conditions. I honestly think mass emigration would give the HSE the kick in the arse it deserves and, in the medium to longer term, result in a better, safer environment for doctors and patients.

pc11

Money, spreadsheets and budgeting consume my every thought these days...

Does anyone know when is realistic on graduation to actually get to start the intern post and therefore earning the pittance that awaits us? I assume we finish around May/June depending on which college, but when do the intern posts typically start?

Dreamer4

pc11 wrote: »

Money, spreadsheets and budgeting consume my every thought these days...

Does anyone know when is realistic on graduation to actually get to start the intern post and therefore earning the pittance that awaits us? I assume we finish around May/June depending on which college, but when do the intern posts typically start?

I also was thinking/ calculating which is the best way to clear debt fast, there seems to be big variation between pay (ie overtime ect) in different hospitals, America is worth considering how quick could one get set up theoretically, is internship longer or could be exempt after completing internship here in ireland? Any opinions or links to information would be appreciated.

House_QC

Biologic wrote: »

I'd agree that UCD is more internationally recognised as a university, but RCSI is more recognised as a medical school. Also, on the law thing, I'm a final med as of next week and have yet to do any appreciable level of law. I thought it would feature on the curriculum like you did, but essentially they just teach you do be a safe doctor and communicate properly.
Lastly, I think this patriotic view on workin in Ireland to give back to your country, though admirable, is a bit misplaced. The system here seems to screw doctors at every opportunity possible. I started med school with the full intention of staying in Ireland. Now, having seen the realities of career progression, working conditions, attitude from management and the general public, and lack of progress toward a solution, I've decided to bail to the states the hour I get my medical degree and never look back. I don't mean to discourage anyone from doing medicine (it's the best decision I've ever made), but don't enter it doe-eyed thinking that people care about the problems of doctors and are working to fix them. Nobody seems to care and the same problems have been there for ages.

Hi Biologic,

I've started reading up on the USMLE three-step process. If you have any advice, tips, general thoughts and/or links to further information on the process of transferring to the States following medical school, that would be much appreciated.


Cheers.

WoolahUrma

House_QC wrote: »

Hi Biologic,

I've started reading up on the USMLE three-step process. If you have any advice, tips, general thoughts and/or links to further information on the process of transferring to the States following medical school, that would be much appreciated.


Cheers.

The ucc website has a lot on the usmle, Its no joke by all accounts.

Hypnos

Does it make sense to think so far into the future? It never goes the way you planned anyway. It's always somehow different for better or for worse. Anyone else have their mind preoccupied on the next step, getting an offer and securing a loan? Rather than planning about US med license and what to do after? They're all little victories just like the gamsat was and thinking so far ahead seems intimidating surely. I'm still happy about the gamsat there and how it went. That was a nice little victory that took a couple attempts and sleepless nights worrying about the exam and the score.

I'm sure we all remember how daunting the prospect of doing well on the GAMSAT was and I'm sure the USMLE's feel the same. Seems difficult and intimidating now, but sure when the time comes and when you're better prepared, they won't seem as bad. Relax a little... Till late July

Abby19

pc11 wrote: »

Money, spreadsheets and budgeting consume my every thought these days...

Does anyone know when is realistic on graduation to actually get to start the intern post and therefore earning the pittance that awaits us? I assume we finish around May/June depending on which college, but when do the intern posts typically start?

All intern posts start at the same time in early July. Which is why you _really_ don't want to be sick then. And rotate in 3/6/12 month posts. Used to be the 1st of the month, but apparently the January 1st changeover used to be disastrous. And interns usually have a week's training before being let loose on the wards.

Lub

I haven't been able to look at this thread until now because I've been so sour over my abysmal score of 48. Coming from a non science background I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I came out with an embarrassing 30 in S3. Bloody 30. I may as well have guessed every answer. Very happy with my S2 score of 76, though that means absolutely nothing if I can't get my arse into gear with the science!

Well done to everyone though, lots of great scores! Best of luck with your studies next year and feel free to contribute to my science4thehopeless foundation. London here I come!

WoolahUrma

Lub wrote: »

I haven't been able to look at this thread until now because I've been so sour over my abysmal score of 48. Coming from a non science background I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I came out with an embarrassing 30 in S3. Bloody 30. I may as well have guessed every answer. Very happy with my S2 score of 76, though that means absolutely nothing if I can't get my arse into gear with the science!

Well done to everyone though, lots of great scores! Best of luck with your studies next year and feel free to contribute to my science4thehopeless foundation. London here I come!

I'm the same as you mate. Non science. 76 is amazing in s2. What did you do for s3? You don't need to be an s3 genius to get through with 76 in s2

Lub

WoolahUrma wrote: »

I'm the same as you mate. Non science. 76 is amazing in s2. What did you do for s3? You don't need to be an s3 genius to get through with 76 in s2

Thanks. I was banking on S1 and S2 to make up for my science, but that clearly was not enough in my case. I just read back a few pages and see you got a 59. That's fantastic. You must be chuffed!

I covered a lot of organic chemistry using Khan Academy (which is amazing for a total novice like me) and devoured Organic Chemistry for Dummies, I also worked through the MCAT orgo workbook. Honestly, I was OK with a lot of the concepts. I understood the theory and was able to understand what was going on in my little dummy book.... but I never even anticipated how difficult the questions would be on the GAMSAT. I recognised a lot of things, but it was so different to what I had studied. So much more complex (obviously). I felt like everything I had learned was useless.

So basically, nobody should ever do what I did! :pac: What was your approach?

On a serious note though, can anyone recommend a workbook or anything with more complex organic chem, similar to what was on the GAMSAT? Should I invest in a University textbook? I'm definitely going to seek out some grinds too.

WoolahUrma

I got the gold standard which was good to orientate my study and I got the osimed papers which helped with timing.

Important: you didn't mention timed practice tests. This is the most important prep for the science I think. I thought the test was really tough too but I stuck to the timing do I got 51 which is no great shakes but it was enough and it would be more than enough for you with the 76!

Cover everything, know graphs, drill timing

I didn't do grinds but I've heard mixed reports!
Khan academy is brilliant

Biologic

House_QC wrote: »

Hi Biologic,

I've started reading up on the USMLE three-step process. If you have any advice, tips, general thoughts and/or links to further information on the process of transferring to the States following medical school, that would be much appreciated.


Cheers.

There's a thread in the health sciences education forum about the USMLE. It has quite a good bit of info you might find useful. If there's any other details you need just ask them in that thread and I'd be glad to help if I can.

PLAYSTATION4

I don't know if this will be helpful to any of you. I sat GAMSAT last year and scored a 63 (60-63-65) and applied for an international spot in 2013.

I was accepted at UCD & UL. Rejected by RCSI (pre-interview). I withdrew my application from UCC after receiving the UCD acceptance so I don't know what would have happened there.

An Claidheamh

Hi guys,
had to down a few before checking results. After the test a couple of months ago, I heard the test was harder than expected from many (from non-science myself), can anyone tell me if the scores and entry have actually shifted to the left?

Cheers.

nomoreexams

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Hi guys,
had to down a few before checking results. After the test a couple of months ago, I heard the test was harder than expected from many (from non-science myself), can anyone tell me if the scores and entry have actually shifted to the left?

Cheers.

Obviously I have no idea for definite until cao offers come out but points have been slowly dropping every year. There's no guarantee but my magic 8 ball guess is that they will all drop by 1 point but not everyone will be guaranteed a place at that reduced score. But what do I know?! It's purely speculation.

Also if boi go hard on people and reject loan applications (which becomes increasing likely in this climate) more people will have to reject offers, thus reducing scores further. Again, absolute speculation on my part and should be taken with a pinch of salt!

EDIT: I should add, I heard the graph is steeper than last years (haven't looked at last years myself) which means scores are worse.

An Claidheamh

Thanks nomorexams, I guess Hope Springs Eternal and only time will tell, appreciate it.