iPhone 5 - Discussion [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST]

TBi

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Where did I suggest otherwise? I did read the links. If Apple sell less phones than Samsung but make more profit on them that means they're over priced and people are happy to pay.

Overpriced? Where exactly do you think they get the money to pay all the software engineers? Android is free, google does 80% of the work for Samsung. Apple created iOS from scratch and maintain it internally using engineers paid for by these 'overpriced' phones.

Not to mention the designers, i'd bet that Apple spends a lot more money on design than Samsung.

Also this is the equivalent of people saying macbook's are overpriced. To get an equivalent quality Dell (not just speed, I mean build quality, LCD quality, keyboard quality) you must buy a latitude which in most cases is equivalent in cost to a Macbook.

Zascar

Ehhhhhhh..... Whether you argue that point or not - have a look at this re the actual cost of producing the iPhone: http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx

Apple make staggering amounts of money - this is why they are such in impressive company. Their marketing is simply astonishing. Steve Jobs created desireable products with a cult like following. As much as I may criticise certain aspects of how Apple work I will always have the highest levels of admiration for how they achieve this.

Sad Professor

That's not the actual cost of producing an iPhone, that's just the cost of the components. How much do you think software development, advertising, shipping, assembly, warehousing, and research & development cost?

How much do the components in an equivalent Android handset cost?

Quazzie

whiterebel wrote: »

And yet I still haven't heard one good reason why Android is better, apart from the stock answer - widgets and customisable.....both of which are doable with a jailbreak. .

I recently changed from a iPhone 4 to a Samsung Galaxt S2, and whilst on most things I find them comparable, or even the iPhone superior in a few cases, but the biggest thing for me that makes me believe the Samsung Galaxy S2 is better than the iPhone is that I no longer have to use iTunes. That alone makes Android better than iPhones imo

Tora Bora

Zascar wrote: »

Ehhhhhhh..... Whether you argue that point or not - have a look at this re the actual cost of producing the iPhone: http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone-4S-Carries-BOM-of-$188,-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx

Apple make staggering amounts of money - this is why they are such in impressive company. Their marketing is simply astonishing. Steve Jobs created desireable products with a cult like following. As much as I may criticise certain aspects of how Apple work I will always have the highest levels of admiration for how they achieve this.

Not an insignificant part of the financial success of Apple, is the way they outsource their production, to Foxconn in China. Workers rights abuses, human rights abuses, are part and parcel of the business. It's a shocking, shocking indictment of Apple!

murpho999

Quazzie wrote: »

I recently changed from a iPhone 4 to a Samsung Galaxt S2, and whilst on most things I find them comparable, or even the iPhone superior in a few cases, but the biggest thing for me that makes me believe the Samsung Galaxy S2 is better than the iPhone is that I no longer have to use iTunes. That alone makes Android better than iPhones imo

Why....do you spend all your time syncing?

It's funny....I hardly ever have to use iTunes. Updates are now over the air. As is contact syncing etc
So the only time I have to use it is to transfer non Itunes store music is to transfer new non -itunes acquired music and that's really easy.

whiterebel

Tora Bora wrote: »

Not an insignificant part of the financial success of Apple, is the way they outsource their production, to Foxconn in China. Workers rights abuses, human rights abuses, are part and parcel of the business. It's a shocking, shocking indictment of Apple!

And no-one else uses Foxconn?

Tea 1000

TBi wrote: »

Overpriced? Where exactly do you think they get the money to pay all the software engineers? Android is free, google does 80% of the work for Samsung. Apple created iOS from scratch and maintain it internally using engineers paid for by these 'overpriced' phones.

Not to mention the designers, i'd bet that Apple spends a lot more money on design than Samsung.

Also this is the equivalent of people saying macbook's are overpriced. To get an equivalent quality Dell (not just speed, I mean build quality, LCD quality, keyboard quality) you must buy a latitude which in most cases is equivalent in cost to a Macbook.

Where do they get the money to pay the engineers? Same place any other company does. What's your argument here? That Apple are special and are allowed to charge more because they pay engineers? Just open your eyes and look at the staggering profits! Profit for a company is money that isn't going to engineers. It's money AFTER paying engineers.
I'm not saying they're bold boys for making too much money, I'm calling it like it is. They've over-priced their products because the demand is such that it allows them to. Fair play to them, I'd do the same. It's what companies who aim to be considered a premium brand do. Doesn't make it great value or necessarily the best product.

squonk

Quazzie wrote: »

I recently changed from a iPhone 4 to a Samsung Galaxt S2, and whilst on most things I find them comparable, or even the iPhone superior in a few cases, but the biggest thing for me that makes me believe the Samsung Galaxy S2 is better than the iPhone is that I no longer have to use iTunes. That alone makes Android better than iPhones imo

I cannot remember the last time I synced any of my devices with iTunes. You don't need to use iTunes anymore on a dedicated PC. Heck, even if you're not using iCloud you can back your phone up wirelessly now so the only interaction needed is to actually fire up iTunes and let it sit there.

tigershould

whoever said Apple dont innovate should look back at history...

computer GUI + mouse = Apple 1984 (microsoft 1985 - we know who dominated)

imac = Apple 1998 (no more dull beige boxes)

ipod = Apple 2001 (ok there were other mp3 players so maybe not so much innovated as market domination)

itunes = Apple 2003 (changed the way we buy music)

iphone = Apple 2007 (game changer extrodinaire!)

appstore = Apple 2008 (Gapps still playing catch up)

ipad = Apple 2010 (ok there were other 'tablets' before but the iPad name is becoming synonomous with tablets now - ask your mum: & they're dominating the market)

siri = Apple 2011 (apple think we will be controlling our devices with voice in the future)

Quazzie

tigershould wrote: »

whoever said Apple dont innovate should look back at history...

computer GUI + mouse = Apple 1984 (microsoft 1985 - we know who dominated)

imac = Apple 1998 (no more dull beige boxes)

ipod = Apple 2001 (ok there were other mp3 players so maybe not so much innovated as market domination)

itunes = Apple 2003 (changed the way we buy music)

iphone = Apple 2007 (game changer extrodinaire!)

appstore = Apple 2008 (Gapps still playing catch up)

ipad = Apple 2010 (ok there were other 'tablets' before but the iPad name is becoming synonomous with tablets now - ask your mum: & they're dominating the market)

siri = Apple 2011 (apple think we will be controlling our devices with voice in the future)

That's more of a list of marketing success rather than innovation tbh.

itzme

Quazzie wrote: »

That's more of a list of marketing success rather than innovation tbh.

Ok so give an example of a modern company and a list of their multiple innovative successful products please

Duggys Housemate

Zascar wrote: »

BTW for those that think Android is just a shadow in the background compared to Apple, here are the latest ComScore stats:





So android now has 51% of the market, opposed to Apple's 30.7%. Samsung has 26% of the phone market - Apple has 14%.

Samsung are about to release the S3 in a few days and it's rumoured to be pretty impressive. Unless Apple come out with something 'truly' revolutionary - their days of total dominance are numbered.

It has little to do with Samsung's high level stuff, and a lot to do with their low level stuff. As it happens that is Apple's highest market share in the US - people forget where RIM were just about 18 months ago. Nokia have never been anywhere.

As for the stats, all the main carriers who delineated the stats for their market share in the US gave Apple the lead, Apple had 60+% of AT&T, 50+% percent of Verizon, and about 49% of Sprint. The latter two being new.

That leaves T-Mobile. I cant see where those scores therefore come from.

Here is a link to someone who agrees:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/02/winning-in-neither-name-nor-spirit/

In any case Apple are not really competing for market share at the moment, they tend to keep margins high until they have a new product with big margins, I think they may release the iPhone 5 - if it has a bigger screen - as a higher end model, allowing them to drop prices on the 3GS - which I see going forward as the lower end model. It can even get a chip upgrade. Something like the Mac line.

In that case I can see them dropping the 3GS to $200 off contract, all the way up to $1000+ for the high end model. This is the iPod strategy. Apple will be better at locking people in too, and there coiuld well be an iPad halo.

copacetic

Why does everything turn into silly off topic fanboy arguments? Do people not realise how ridiculous they look?

Duggys Housemate

copacetic wrote: »

Why does everything turn into silly off topic fanboy arguments? Do people not realise how ridiculous they look?

The forum is for apple media devices. Which tends to get Android fans coming in extolling the latest Samsung, or Android market share, and to a large extent that is trolling. We do react though.

murpho999

So The Samung Galaxy SIII is now launched.


Is it the game changer?

Screen nearly heading for tablet size.

720p HD AMOLED screen.
Lots of processors with lots of cores.

A rippliing lock screen that sounds like a piano (wow)

Claims that phone knows what you want to do

NFC

Camera with multi burst and lots of intelligence

For me all just spec bumps.....this "game changer" that people are demanding is just not going to happen.

whiterebel

tigershould wrote: »

whoever said Apple dont innovate should look back at history...

computer GUI + mouse = Apple 1984 (microsoft 1985 - we know who dominated) - Originally from Rank Xerox, Jobs and Woz asked could they use them.

imac = Apple 1998 (no more dull beige boxes) - also got rid of the floppy drive, making the CD drive standard.


itunes = Apple 2003 (changed the way we buy music) - Originally SoundJam, bought by Apple

Sorry to be pedantic.....

TBi

whiterebel wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic.....

I like your line "Originally SoundJam, bought by Apple"

Might i change it as so

"Android: Originally iOS, blatantly copied by Google (without permission)"

TBi

murpho999 wrote: »

So The Samung Galaxy SIII is now launched.


Is it the game changer?

Screen nearly heading for tablet size.

720p HD AMOLED screen.
Lots of processors with lots of cores.

A rippliing lock screen that sounds like a piano (wow)

Claims that phone knows what you want to do

NFC

Camera with multi burst and lots of intelligence

For me all just spec bumps.....this "game changer" that people are demanding is just not going to happen.

Game changer? The iPod changed how people viewed music players, the iPhone changed how people viewed phones, the iPad changed how people viewed tablets. Those are game changers.

I already know what the Samsung S3 is going to be, 5", 2GHz+ quad core, 4 gb ram. The same as before... just bigger, faster. At this rate the iPad will be small compared to the galaxy SX (10). Nothing game changing.

murpho999

TBi wrote: »

Game changer? The iPod changed how people viewed music players, the iPhone changed how people viewed phones, the iPad changed how people viewed tablets. Those are game changers.

I already know what the Samsung S3 is going to be, 5", 2GHz+ quad core, 4 gb ram. The same as before... just bigger, faster. At this rate the iPad will be small compared to the galaxy SX (10). Nothing game changing.

You might want to go to Google and discover the the S3 was launced today.

My gamechanger comment was in relation to 'fandroid' posters coming on here and saying that Apple were in trouble and that they needed a gamechanger.

Sad Professor

whiterebel:

I assume tigershould was referring to the iTunes Store rather than the iTunes application, which still bore very little resemblance to SoundJam. SoundJam was just an MP3 player, where as iTunes was a full blown music organiser and database. There was nothing else like it on the Mac or PC at the time, not for free anyway.

And it's mistake to give Xerox all the credit for the GUI. Apple did a lot of work on it and the finished result bore relatively little resemblance to the Alto. The way the took that idea and made it work is probably the best example of Apple's innovative spirit.

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

whiterebel:

I assume tigershould was referring to the iTunes Store rather than the iTunes application, which still bore very little resemblance to SoundJam. SoundJam was just an MP3 player, where as iTunes was a full blown music organiser and database. There was nothing else like it on the Mac or PC at the time, not for free anyway.

And it's mistake to give Xerox all the credit for the GUI. Apple did a lot of work on it and the finished result bore relatively little resemblance to the Alto. The way the took that idea and made it work is probably the best example of Apple's innovative spirit.

I don't think taking someone else's idea and changing it can be classed as innovation, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

1ZRed

I've just looked at the SIII and it's so ugly!
I don't care how fast, big and great the screen is, it's a beast.
I really liked the S2, why did they fall of the wagon this time with design is beyond me.
I said I wouldn't buy an iP5 if it had the 3GS design but I would take it in a heart beat over this!

drunkmonkey

Mr.S wrote: »

IMO, iPhone/Apple will always be ahead. iOS is by far the best UI on any smartphone. Any android phone i've tried is always complicated and cluttered.

Thats not a fanboy statement, i'd love to buy a Galaxy S2 (and now a S3) just the software is meh

Saying that iPhone/Apple will always be ahead is ludicrous as there already behind in market penetration of iOS when it comes to Smartphones. Remember Nokia used to be the number 1 maker of smartphones and is still the number one box shifter of mobile phones today.
Androids problem is it's open source, it can be put on to any device from the very cheap to the very very expensive with no Pier body making sure of the quality of each device it is released on. It does not mean Android is bad but you will pay Apple prices if you want the best and more than Apple prices if you really want to showboat it.

Calling android meh shows a lack of understanding about Android. Boot up one of Android's Top phones like the HTC One X and you will be very impressed. I know a few people who have all traded in iphone4's for the One X, it is a long way from meh.
iOS is outdated compared to Ice cream sandwich. Apple are not ahead and if anything there about to go pop. They are in an almighty bubble at the moment. Sell, Sell, Sell.

murpho999

Sad Professor wrote: »

whiterebel:

I assume tigershould was referring to the iTunes Store rather than the iTunes application, which still bore very little resemblance to SoundJam. SoundJam was just an MP3 player, where as iTunes was a full blown music organiser and database. There was nothing else like it on the Mac or PC at the time, not for free anyway.

And it's mistake to give Xerox all the credit for the GUI. Apple did a lot of work on it and the finished result bore relatively little resemblance to the Alto. The way the took that idea and made it work is probably the best example of Apple's innovative spirit.

You're wasting your time.

Don't you know that Apple either just steal technology, copy competition or just buy them.

Never think of anything themselves, employ vacuous people who create nothing but charge premium prices for their products despite the competition being cheaper and better,have them manufactured by cheap Chinese labour employed in a torture camp and sell enough of the products to gullible brainwashed sheep fans to make them the largest technology company in the world despite releasing products like iPhone 4 that just dropped calls.
Their days are clearly numbered until they are found out.

Sad Professor

whiterebel wrote: »

I don't think taking someone else's idea and changing it can be classed as innovation, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sure it is:

innovate |ˈinəˌvāt|
verb [ no obj. ]
make changes in something established, esp. by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.

There's a difference between invention and innovation. I would never claim that Apple invented the GUI.

tigershould

@copacetic yeh, ihate to get embroiled in fanboy wars and find it hilarious/embarrasing where these android vs iPhone debates end up.

I find these debates interesting though because I want someone/something to convince me to move from iPhone (which I've had since the first gen was launched and I upgraded from my Nokia)

my problem now is that I'm intertwined (sic) into the who apple eco system and I quite like it.

why would I move from itunes where all my music is stored nice and tidy

why would I purchase all my apps on another device (lk,e tom tom $99?)

maybe apple have me trapped now - but I'm kinda enjoying it

whiterebel

murpho999 wrote: »

You're wasting your time.

Don't you know that Apple either just steal technology, copy competition or just buy them.

Never think of anything themselves, employ vacuous people who create nothing but charge premium prices for their products despite the competition being cheaper and better,have them manufactured by cheap Chinese labour employed in a torture camp and sell enough of the products to gullible brainwashed sheep fans to make them the largest technology company in the world despite releasing products like iPhone 4 that just dropped calls.
Their days are clearly numbered until they are found out.

If you're aiming that at me, mate, you couldn't be much more wide of the mark . I've never owned a PC, first computer was a Performa 5300, and have had Macs ever since. Having worked for them, I don't believe all the hype though. I do love my iPhone and iPad, and have looked at Android, but I have all the apps I need, so there's no way I'd start again. There's so little difference in the OS's I can't see what the fuss is about.

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

Sure it is:



There's a difference between invention and innovation. I would never claim that Apple invented the GUI.

And I have this:

You see here's where the differences come in:
in·no·vate
   [in-uh-veyt] Show IPA verb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.

That's what I would consider innovative.

murpho999

whiterebel wrote: »

If you're aiming that at me, mate, you couldn't be much more wide of the mark . I've never owned a PC, first computer was a Performa 5300, and have had Macs ever since. Having worked for them, I don't believe all the hype though. I do love my iPhone and iPad, and have looked at Android, but I have all the apps I need, so there's no way I'd start again. There's so little difference in the OS's I can't see what the fuss is about.

Wasn't aimed at you at all, mate (why do people say that, let alone type it).

More aimed at the general anti-apple comments one can see here!

I agree with you about the OS's , nothing in Android to make me want to change. Will stick with iOS for the foreseeable future.