iPhone 5 - Discussion [READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST]

tigershould

I consider apple to have innovated the current smart phone market.


I'm with whiterebel - very little difference between iOS and Android

Sad Professor

whiterebel wrote: »

And I have this:

You see here's where the differences come in:
in·no·vate
   [in-uh-veyt] Show IPA verb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.

That's what I would consider innovative.

Well, you know what they say about "new", don't you?

But I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about here. That Apple isn't innovative because they took or bought ideas from others? If taking what Xerox did and turning it into the world's first successful personal computer isn't innovation then I don't know what is.

murpho999

whiterebel wrote: »

And I have this:

You see here's where the differences come in:
in·no·vate
   [in-uh-veyt] Show IPA verb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.

That's what I would consider innovative.

Well like the whole adage about Ford, he didn't event the car but his approach of assembly line, mass manufacturing and making it affordable was certainly innovative and groundbreaking.

You can be innovative in more ways than inventing stuff.

Apples approach to MP3 players was innovative.
Their approach to GUI's and how they could be used was innovative, getting it to was market innovative and new.

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

Well, you know what they say about "new", don't you?

But I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about here. That Apple isn't innovative because they took or bought ideas from others? If taking what Xerox did and turning it into the world's first successful personal computer isn't innovation then I don't know what is.

I guess we just.....think differently:D

murpho999

whiterebel wrote: »

I guess we just.....think differently:D

Would you say for example that Facebook are innovative or not as they certainly didn't invent social networks?

whiterebel

murpho999 wrote: »

Would you say for example that Facebook are innovative or not as they certainly didn't invent social networks?

Again, depends on which definition you use. The way I've always thought of innovative, no, they wouldn't be.

murpho999

whiterebel wrote: »

Again, depends on which definition you use. The way I've always thought of innovative, no, they wouldn't be.

Dyson then? Promise you and mods that this is my last one.

They didn't invent vacuum cleaner or hand dryers but they have certainly been innovative in those markets.

whiterebel

murpho999 wrote: »

Dyson then? Promise you and mods that this is my last one.

They didn't invent vacuum cleaner or hand dryers but they have certainly been innovative in those markets.

If you look at the definitions I provided, you'll see you can ask the same about probably most companies.
According to the first definition that I have above no, according to the second one, yes.

MiniNukinfuts

So......iPhone 5.......i want it to have a hand drier

Jev/N

whiterebel wrote: »

And I have this:

You see here's where the differences come in:
in·no·vate
   [in-uh-veyt] Show IPA verb, in·no·vat·ed, in·no·vat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.

That's what I would consider innovative.

There's a distinction between the transitive and intransitive uses of the word though

To innovate is to make changes in something established

To innovate X is to introduce X as new


/nerd hat off

Doodah7

The OP asked when is the iPhone 5 going to be out and the thread is now a flame war and a discussion on the correct grammatical definition of the word innovate...

:rolleyes:

MiniNukinfuts

the word innovation derives from the Latin word innovatus, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," stemming from in—"into" + novus—"new".

Owen

I've had the iPhone since the first one came out and I'd to import it from the States. Had a 3g, 3gs, and now a 4 - no 4s for me yet. I love iOS, I think it's more polished than Android (And I have an ICS Android Tablet, and an Android I'm Watch on the way).

BUT. Samsung really upped the ante last night with the launch of the S3. I think the form factor with the larger screen is beautiful, the replaceable batteries, the charging stand that can charge the phone and a spare battery at the time, the NFC payments system on board, optional induction charging, full HD video, 50GB Dropbox account, Siri-like assistant, Quad Core and a gig of ram, and 8.6mm at the thickest point its nearly as thin as the DROID Razr.

Apple are going to have to up their game substantially IMHO.

jack presley

Is it just phones/tablets/computers that have these fanboy arguments? You never hear owners of different brands of TVs etc getting all worked up over whether theirs is better than the alternatives

murpho999

Owen wrote: »

I've had the iPhone since the first one came out and I'd to import it from the States. Had a 3g, 3gs, and now a 4 - no 4s for me yet. I love iOS, I think it's more polished than Android (And I have an ICS Android Tablet, and an Android I'm Watch on the way).

BUT. Samsung really upped the ante last night with the launch of the S3. I think the form factor with the larger screen is beautiful, the replaceable batteries, the charging stand that can charge the phone and a spare battery at the time, the NFC payments system on board, optional induction charging, full HD video, 50GB Dropbox account, Siri-like assistant, Quad Core and a gig of ram, and 8.6mm at the thickest point its nearly as thin as the DROID Razr.

Apple are going to have to up their game substantially IMHO.

It's funny I think the opposite.

Think it's too big.....is lacking in design....the plastic backing is awful.

The charging thing is an accessory, and apparantly has been done before and is slow.

Full HD....doesn't I phone have that?

Quad Core....this makes me laugh...the latest tech buzz word but the iPhone is working perfect on it's dual core.

50gb dropbox...nothing to do with phone and I'm sure Apple will respond.

NFC, yes it will be nice but it's hardly a clincher.

Watch a show on The Verge last night and the nerds there were very unimpressed by it, particularly the design.

I real don't think Apple are quaking in their boots on this one.

This 'have to raise their game' is said a lot too.....is it not Apple who made others raise their game? Especially when you look at Smartphones pre-iPhone.?

murpho999

jack presley wrote: »

Is it just phones/tablets/computers that have these fanboy arguments? You never hear owners of different brands of TVs etc getting all worked up over whether theirs is better than the alternatives

I know, you don't really hear people do it as much with computers though apart from Mac v PC.

Football clubs is the closest I can comparison I can find though

drunkmonkey

I don't think Android/Windows users rubbish the iPhone they just choose to not get an iPhone just like people choose not to buy a Toyota.
iPhone users on the other hand seem to completely rubbish the competition, android is meh, iphone already does that, who needs a bigger screen, two cores are fine, bluetooth not much use, who needs flash anyway.
Murphy I think you couldn't admit there is a better phone right now than the iPhone 4S even though there is, that's a bit sad it re-enforces the stereo type I have of the majority of iphone users, not all but the vast majority.

MiniNukinfuts

murpho999 wrote: »

50gb dropbox...nothing to do with phone and I'm sure Apple will respond.

Nothing to do with either android or apple, dropbox did the same when the originally launched the iPhone app. They recently ended the promotion for the 50GB free.

Owen

murpho999 wrote: »

This 'have to raise their game' is said a lot too.....is it not Apple who made others raise their game? Especially when you look at Smartphones pre-iPhone.?

That's a bit of a moot argument, the 4 was Apple's last real leap forward. The 4s was an appauling release IMHO (And the opinion of many others). Those who had a 4 felt no compulsion to upgrade to a 4s. Even the gyroscope which Apple lauded for the release of the 4 has hardly ever been used. I think I used it for 'gyro drums' for about 30 seconds, that was it.

Your argument seems to be 'new stuff iPhone doesn't have - I don't care' over and over again. The thing is, while I do love my iPhone, and iOS, the things in the Samsung are the things I'd expect Apple to innovate with. Wireless charging? Apple should be the kings of that - there's nothing geekier! A super slim form factor but still having a large display and a decent battery? NFC? These are all the things we would have expected Apple to innovate with a few years back.

I'm holding on for the iPhone 5, but if it's another incremental step forward with a Futurama 'Shut up and take my money' marketing campaign hoping that those loyal to Apple will just buy it anyway, then I will be jumping ship to Android. I like having new tech and new ways of doing things.

boreder

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think Android/Windows users rubbish the iPhone they just choose to not get an iPhone just like people choose not to buy a Toyota.
iPhone users on the other hand seem to completely rubbish the competition, android is meh, iphone already does that, who needs a bigger screen, two cores are fine, bluetooth not much use, who needs flash anyway.
Murphy I think you couldn't admit there is a better phone right now than the iPhone 4S even though there is, that's a bit sad it re-enforces the stereo type I have of the majority of iphone users, not all but the vast majority.

:pac:

whiterebel

Owen wrote: »

That's a bit of a moot argument, the 4 was Apple's last real leap forward. The 4s was an appauling release IMHO (And the opinion of many others). Those who had a 4 felt no compulsion to upgrade to a 4s. Even the gyroscope which Apple lauded for the release of the 4 has hardly ever been used. I think I used it for 'gyro drums' for about 30 seconds, that was it.

Your argument seems to be 'new stuff iPhone doesn't have - I don't care' over and over again. The thing is, while I do love my iPhone, and iOS, the things in the Samsung are the things I'd expect Apple to innovate with. Wireless charging? Apple should be the kings of that - there's nothing geekier! A super slim form factor but still having a large display and a decent battery? NFC? These are all the things we would have expected Apple to innovate with a few years back.

I'm holding on for the iPhone 5, but if it's another incremental step forward with a Futurama 'Shut up and take my money' marketing campaign hoping that those loyal to Apple will just buy it anyway, then I will be jumping ship to Android. I like having new tech and new ways of doing things.

The days of changing every 12 months are gone for smartphones. 2 year contracts and €600 phones being changed every year don't mix. When I got the iPhone 4, I was never going to get the next one, no matter how great it was.

murpho999

Owen wrote: »

That's a bit of a moot argument, the 4 was Apple's last real leap forward. The 4s was an appauling release IMHO (And the opinion of many others). Those who had a 4 felt no compulsion to upgrade to a 4s. Even the gyroscope which Apple lauded for the release of the 4 has hardly ever been used. I think I used it for 'gyro drums' for about 30 seconds, that was it.

Your argument seems to be 'new stuff iPhone doesn't have - I don't care' over and over again. The thing is, while I do love my iPhone, and iOS, the things in the Samsung are the things I'd expect Apple to innovate with. Wireless charging? Apple should be the kings of that - there's nothing geekier! A super slim form factor but still having a large display and a decent battery? NFC? These are all the things we would have expected Apple to innovate with a few years back.

I'm holding on for the iPhone 5, but if it's another incremental step forward with a Futurama 'Shut up and take my money' marketing campaign hoping that those loyal to Apple will just buy it anyway, then I will be jumping ship to Android. I like having new tech and new ways of doing things.

I really think though that the 4s was not aimed at 4 users just like the 3gs was not aimed at 3 users, but it was a big leap for me going from 3gs to 4s.
Why would people want to upgrade their very expensive phone after a year anyway? Do you buy a new laptop every year?

I think people should realise that Apple are also trying to attract new customers who have no smartphone so a phone like a 4s can be attractive to them too. The fact that it still had 4 in the title showed it was just an enhancement model rather than a new phone.

I'm by no means an Apple fan boy, iPhone is the only Apple product I have ever had, and it works for me. If I saw a better phone I would have no brand loyalty and would jump ship. I do wish battery would last more than a day and some other things in the OS but overall I'm very happy with it.

I saw nothing in yesterday's presentation (which was awfully pretentious by the way ....'built for humans'.) that would make me want to jump.

If NFC is something you feel is missing in your life then so be it, or plugging a cable in to charge is a hassle then off you go to Samsung (that wireless charging is nothing new and not brilliant) but for me it's too big, heading for tablet size......looks cheap in design, plastic backing and apparently feels very very light.

No one has convinced me about Android either as all I hear is widgets and 'customisable', nothing more.

seamus

Owen wrote: »

Wireless charging? Apple should be the kings of that - there's nothing geekier! A super slim form factor but still having a large display and a decent battery? NFC? These are all the things we would have expected Apple to innovate with a few years back.

I'm holding on for the iPhone 5, but if it's another incremental step forward with a Futurama 'Shut up and take my money' marketing campaign...

While I don't disagree with the latter point, it's worth noting that Apple don't necessarily innovate technologically. So far with the iPhone they're taken widely available and tested technologies and jammed them in together. They didn't come up with any new technologies - GPS, accelerometers, etc etc etc - all well established and tested technologies.

Wireless charging, NFC, not so much. Inductive charging has no kind of standard developed and is still a good bit off being an "accepted" technology generally. Overall I fail to see the benefit of leaving the device sitting on a mat, or leaving it with a cable plugged in. A mat that lets you charge multiple devices at once - now you're talking. But that requires a standard. Which we don't have.

NFC is an established standard, but useless on 99.999% of the planet.
There is an argument that the iPhone could have been a primary driver for the rollout of these two things, but at the end of the day it's still another piece of technology which needs to be massively scaled down and squeezed into a tiny form factor. So they need to weigh up the potential usefulness of these things.
NFC in particular would have been a waste even 12 months ago. Adopting of NFC can't be "forced" by writing useful apps that take advantage of it, it requires that 3rd parties adopt their own hardware to interconnect with it.

Even an iPhone 5 released this year without NFC wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. It would be like adding true 4G connectivity to the iP5 - cool that they managed to jam it into the little box, but completely irrelevant since I have no way of using it in this country.

murpho999

boreder wrote: »

Originally Posted by drunkmonkey
I don't think Android/Windows users rubbish the iPhone they just choose to not get an iPhone just like people choose not to buy a Toyota.
iPhone users on the other hand seem to completely rubbish the competition, android is meh, iphone already does that, who needs a bigger screen, two cores are fine, bluetooth not much use, who needs flash anyway.
Murphy I think you couldn't admit there is a better phone right now than the iPhone 4S even though there is, that's a bit sad it re-enforces the stereo type I have of the majority of iphone users, not all but the vast majority.

I never said the 4s was the best phone.

I do feel it's best for me and that's what's important to me.

The fact that you have a stereotype in your head of an iPhone user is worrying.

I have no idea what an Samsung or HTC owner would be like!

All just phone users at the end of the day.

DubDJ

Just came across this concept for the next ten iPhone and have to say it's one of the better one's i've seen. Really like most of the design although the rear looks a bit strange. Full gallery of images are here.

As well as that if anyone is interested the usb cable shown in the pictures is actually a real product that's on Kickstarter now. Thinking of getting one myself.

whiterebel

DubDJ wrote: »

Just came across this concept for the next ten iPhone and have to say it's one of the better one's i've seen. Really like most of the design although the rear looks a bit strange. Full gallery of images are here.

As well as that if anyone is interested the usb cable shown in the pictures is actually a real product that's on Kickstarter now. Thinking of getting one myself.

It looks thicker than the current one.....

Gumbo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

that's a bit sad it re-enforces the stereo type I have of the majority of iphone users, not all but the vast majority.

I think that when people have stereo types of other people based on what phone they use is a bit sad to be honest.
its a piece of plastic in your hand, people need to get over themselves if im honest!

Are we really that low that we hold judgements against people like that, it reminds of the BMW driver stereotype era.

onlinepaul

how much will it cost

Duggys Housemate

tree fiddy

Zascar

lots of money