Mary I in the papers again

dambarude

Mary I has been getting some bad press lately (most of it justified to some extent at least). It's in it again today, relating to the role of the Catholic Church in the College (The Irish Times), and the role of teacher 'training' colleges in general (again, in The Irish times).

The first article makes some interesting points about the governance of the college, given it is funded publicly:

Mary Immaculate, for example, is managed by a board of trustees: the Most Rev Dermot Clifford, archbishop of Cashel Emly; Sr Peggy Collins, Congregration of the Sisters of Mercy (CSM); Sr Breda Coman, CSM; Sr Thomasina Finn, CSM; Richard B Haslam; Very Rev Tony Mullins, administrator of the diocese of Limerick; Most Rev William Murphy, bishop of Kerry; and Margaret O’Brien.

These trustees appoint the governing body of the college, which controls all affairs of the college, including appointments. The trustees also appoint the president of the college. Posts in two areas – religious education, and theology and religious studies – are also subject to approval by the trustees.

the second one is more general about the future of any of the teacher education colleges:

The review will put smaller colleges under pressure to link up or amalgamate with larger universities. It is also expected to back the establishment of “institutes of education”.

These will provide all levels of teacher education on one campus at centres of excellence around the State. Courses for pre-primary, primary and second-level teachers at undergraduate and postgraduate level could be rolled out in one location, according to education sources.

I've mentioned it here before, but changes are most certainly afoot for Mary I. Changes in every dimension too, not just in ethos and RE provision.

Poxyshamrock

Interesting read. Nice find Dambarude.

I have to say I found Michael Hayes' inauguration speech a bit preachy myself but at the same time, anytime Ive met him he seems like a genuinely nice person.

dambarude

Re changing teacher training colleges into 'institutes of education', Mary I is actually 2/3 of the way there. It already has an early child care course (pre-school), the B.Ed obviously (primary), and UL covers a lot of secondary education. Some amalgamation there would deliver one of these institutes fairly quickly. I don't know what that would mean for the BA though.

Mary I is probably safer than the other small colleges due to its location, being away from Dublin, and because it is the biggest of the primary teacher education colleges. It's also linked with UL already, but that link could grow. CICE and Marino could be in trouble, as the article pointed out.

The role of religion in the college is going to come under some serious pressure though. I've read in at least three separate articles about Minister Quinn 'moving uncomfortably in his seat' during the President's speech. You'd think they'd come up with some other way of saying it;).

peckerhead

dambarude wrote: »

I've read in at least three separate articles about Minister Quinn 'moving uncomfortably in his seat' during the President's speech.

He wasn't the only one.

And then we get something helpful like this from the "President Emeritus".

dambarude

To be honest I personally have no issue with the college being of a Catholic ethos as long as it doesn't impinge on students who are not of the same persuasion.

Prof. Cremin refers to Mary I and the other denominated colleges as "faith-based institutions". I'd like to know in what tangible way that is shown in them, save in physical structures (e.g. statues), more masses and the members on the governing body. The B.Ed in Mary I, of course, spends far too much time on religion. But that appears to be due to legacy issues, and will change with the roll out of the new B.Ed. The BA in Mary I seems to me have no religious input if you're not studying Theology. I can only presume that none of the Masters or Doctorate programmes are tinged due to the "faith-based" nature of the institution.

Much of the objections may be based on principle, and I can understand that. But in practical terms does it make much difference (RE in the B.Ed aside)?

To me, and it might only be me, the college is not much different to others. The biggest differences occurs due to the small size of the college, not its ethos. I'd love to hear other opinions on this!

dambarude

Another article about Mary I and religion. It's more positive this time, but is still suggestive.

Cailin CoisFarraige

dambarude wrote: »

The B.Ed in Mary I, of course, spends far too much time on religion. But that appears to be due to legacy issues, and will change with the roll out of the new B.Ed.

(RE in the B.Ed aside)?

There is definitely too much emphasis on RE in the current B.Ed. programme, but I've always felt this was not on the insistence of the college itself. The 1999 curriculum allocates 30 minutes per day to Religious Education. Science is allocated 1 hour in the entire week. It's not something I personally agree with but it's the reality of the curriculum and surely it's logical that the lecture hours for these subjects reflect this.

The Cert in RE is what adds heavily to the Religion hours. Again, this is not a requirement of the college, or the degree, but from the patrons of Catholic-ethos schools.

McSween

dambarude wrote: »

Quinn 'moving uncomfortably in his seat' during the President's speech. You'd think they'd come up with some other way of saying it;).

The college is approaching squeaky bum time I reckon

dambarude

Slightly more positive mention of the college for once:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0717/1224320253539.html

Chloris

Everybody seems to gain from a deal like that.

I can't help feeling like there's a catch; does anybody see one? I hope there's none, because if there's not then it's a really nice thing for Mary I to do.

dambarude

Chloris wrote: »

Everybody seems to gain from a deal like that.

I can't help feeling like there's a catch; does anybody see one? I hope there's none, because if there's not then it's a really nice thing for Mary I to do.

After that article several other colleges announced the same deal. The only catch is the interest repayment, I would think.

Chloris

But it's reduced! So it's better than just getting a loan from a bank. No, seriously, I'm happy about that; that's a really good deal on the part of the colleges involved. Fair play.

Icarus Wings

Teacher training colleges are said to merge after Ruairí Quinn accepted proposals from a panel of experts. For Mary Immaculate, this means a more official integration with UL along with teacher training in LIT. It's important to note that this is currently only a recommendation.

Further details are here.

dambarude

I think Mary I will be safe Icarus Wings:

The Review Panel appreciates that the recommended integration of MIC into UL, together
with teacher education at LIT, will require negotiation with regard to the location/relocation
of programmes, students and personnel. It understands that the campus at MIC has been
greatly enhanced and extended over recent years and may be the appropriate location for
the new centre for teacher education

Mary I/UL seem to have gotten a good report card, as the alliance is being proposed as a hub for the other centres.

It further recommends that
the integrated UL/MIC entity should be nominated as a Centre of Excellence for Teacher
Education as referred to in the introduction to Section 6.

A sigh of relief for some of the Education staff? It won't be good for the Liberal Arts staff though.

Icarus Wings

Judging by various media reports, the proposals do seem to have more significance for the institutes based in Dublin (St. Pat's, DCU, Trinity, UCD etc).

dambarude wrote: »

A sigh of relief for some of the Education staff? It won't be good for the Liberal Arts staff though.

True. It's a shame to see that greater developments in the Liberal Arts element of the college are not occurring as well...

dambarude

Icarus Wings wrote: »

True. It's a shame to see that greater developments in the Liberal Arts element of the college are not occurring as well...

If anything the Liberal Arts will be squeezed out of the college. The report seems to frown on block funding being spent on areas other than teacher education in teacher education colleges, and the Teaching Council in their report on ITE expressed similar sentiment. UL now offers Arts subjects, and the argument will be made that there is no need for two providers of humanities education in a city the size of Limerick. Could Arts lecturers be transferred to UL, while some UL staff (in education) transfer to Mary I?

It seems it's back to basics for the college - training teachers. It will be interesting to see if the name Mary I will continue, or if whatever college emerges will be called 'Limerick Institute of Education' or some such. Given the clout that the name Mary I brings with it in teaching circles, it would be a pity for it to be lost. Though I know many would be happy to drop the religious connotations.

68Murph68

From reading those integration with UL reports I would imagine the goal longer-term is to get rid of the Catholic ethos in Mary I to reflect the realities of Irish society, save money and integrate it with UL.

The notion of the organisation that is the number one child abuse organisation in Ireland being the central organisation in the Irish education system isn't one that can be maintained long-term.

I'd imagine that the Department of Education understand this and are giving the present generation of religious incumbents a chance to retire rather than force a confrontation it will simply let time do its work. Of the current board I would imagine that very few of them would be there in five years time given the age denomination of religious in Ireland and there clearly wont be anyone to replace them when they are gone, with the next generation of clergy being too scarce to take up posts like this. Look at the number of clergy involved in the frontline of education nowadays.

Given the religious make-up of the board and management I would imagine that while initially it would be a partnership deal with UL and I would imagine that longer term the point of this would be to reduce Mary I to an element of the University of Limerick.

The notion of a standalone Mary I doesnt really make sense from an economic or societal stand point. Making it an element of UL makes too much sense and the subsequent adaption of the ethos will be a relatively organic process. With ULs strong historical science and technology reputation I would expect to filter over to Mary I before too long.

I would imagine a lot will depend on whether Hayes tries to fight integration or accepts the reality of the world. Potentially he could hold up/delay the integration with Mary I by playing awkward but longer term (10+ plus) it hard not to see Mary I's future as an element of UL. If he decides to adopt a positive approach to the integration and work together it would benefit UL and Mary I but if he adopts a negative approach I would imagine it would damage Mary I long-term, with those in UL regarding it as an irritant and nuisance as opposed to a being a benefit (If you have future teachers graduating from UL/Mary I telling child about how good UL was/is it would surely help a university)

gozunda

From the ops first post - the bit that concerns me most is the section from that link that stated...

In 2010 the college was criticised by the Teaching Council, which monitors
professional standards, for spending too much time teaching religion, noting
that subjects such as science, history and geography were allotted 12 hours each
in contrast to the 48 hours allotted to religious education.

Time to take the broom out methinks....

dambarude

A stinging article from the president of Hibernia college on the money being spent on colleges like Mary I.

It's in response to this article which appeared last week.

Seán Rowland fails to address the point made by Jim Gleeson relating to the cap on teacher numbers. This is aspect of Hibernia college that annoys teachers the most. They're flooding the market with teachers at a time when employment is decreasing rapidly. Going by another article in today's papers the employment situation is about to get even worse.

dambarude

MIC gets another mention by Seán Flynn here:

The HEA backs a merger between Cork and Tralee ITs. It also appears to recognise that Mary Immaculate College in Limerick is reluctant to merge with University of Limerick or any other college.

The HEA report itself says:

5. UL/MIC.

The Initial Teacher Education Review recommended that the two institutions should form one integrated centre for teacher education and become a centre of excellence supporting aspects of teacher education and CPD in both NUIG and UCC. Discussions to-date in respect of a full merger of UL and MIC have proved inconclusive and will require some more time to develop an approach that can meet the objectives of the teacher education review. In the meantime, the institutions will enter into a process to fully rationalise provision in the liberal arts/humanities over a period of time, to be agreed with the HEA.

Arts to be rationalised? UL and MIC to be merged? MIC opposing the move? UL opposing the move?

Whether it's representative of the truth or not, MIC is frequently depicted as being particularly obstinate. St. Pats on the other hand is painted as being the opposite.

stakerwallace

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0204/1224329605566.html


It seems now that MIC is digging in and that the HEA are not happy with this attitude.