Two arrested following discovery of body

1967

The chap who died was a harmless individual and never put in or out on anybody,yes he liked a drink but that does in no way mean he should have his life taken,the guy arrested is not out of prison long for a very violent offence in the same area five or six years ago,for the intuative people on this forum the guy arrested has a brother with a few dogs

merlante

abouttobebanned wrote: »

it seems you're missing the point too. These "wrong people" were living in this area. Hence, in my opinion, it's not a grand place to live.

Sure, but maybe they live in other areas too. At 1/2 murders per year in the city we'd have to wait about 100 years for any reasonable statistics!

I take the point that there *may* (and I'm not convinced about this) be more dubious people in the Scotch quay/Canada sq. area than there are generally in the city. (It's very difficult to say for certain one way or the other.) But to me this is yet another story about the company people keep. You're entitled to your opinion, but in my view, the area is a good place to live and better than most facilities-wise, where -- unless you hang around with dubious people -- you are unlikely to experience any trouble.

merlante

mikom wrote: »

Tell that to Shane Geoghegan.

Like I said, if ordinary bystanders start getting killed then the problem is far worse.

By the way, just before people do the lazy thing and respond without reading the thread, I am not a) advocating murder, b) saying that murders behind closed doors are okay or c) suggesting that people who hang out with scumbags deserve to die. I hope these things are obvious!

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

For me its not a choice between violent attacks in the home or on the street. I've never lived in an area which had either issue.

If you go back in time, even the areas which would be considered very tough didn't have this sort of carry on. It has slowly crept into society and become normal for some people. If this man died because he knew the wrong people, I certainly wouldn't want to count them as neighbours or even friends of my neighbours.

The incident in the park - I've never brought children there at 3am. It was always dodgy there at night and still is.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

For me its not a choice between violent attacks in the home or on the street. I've never lived in an area which had either issue.

If you go back in time, even the areas which would be considered very tough didn't have this sort of carry on. It has slowly crept into society and become normal for some people. If this man died because he knew the wrong people, I certainly wouldn't want to count them as neighbours or even friends of my neighbours.

The incident in the park - I've never brought children there at 3am. It was always dodgy there at night and still is.

Jesus, where have you lived? In fairness, there are 100 cops in Waterford and they are there for a reason. You wouldn't necessarily hear about everything that goes on in your area.

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

Statistically speaking, if you want to predict a chance of something really bad kicking off in a group, the criminal records, education and occupations of the group members will be a much better predictor of serious crime than the area one of them happens to live in. Particularly, when there are plenty of students and quite a few families in the area in question and, realistically, they are much less likely to be killing each other.

I would also hope that if and when the perpetrator is charged and put away that there wouldn't be too many other would-be murders in the area!

Re the park, it's a lot safer than it used to be, even a few years ago. 3am is probably not the safest time to be wandering around anywhere.

Potential-Monke

merlante wrote: »

You wouldn't hear about everything that goes on in your area.

FYP.

merlante wrote: »

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

According to this link, the statistics show that Homicide has been steadily increasing in Ireland since 1953 (up to the latest, 2007). There is no breakdown by area, but it still shows a trend...

merlante

Potential-Monke wrote: »

According to this link, the statistics show that Homicide has been steadily increasing in Ireland since 1953 (up to the latest, 2007). There is no breakdown by area, but it still shows a trend...

Cool.

Looking at the Homicide Rate per 100,000 pop, it's definitely up between 1991 and 1996. Only up slightly, I would say, between 1996 and 2006, but the 2005-2007 taken together looks like things have taken a turn for the worse. Not sure how statistically significant those changes are. Still, it does seem to get worse over time since 1951. Would be interesting to see the recession figures! (Maybe people's perceptions are right and things are getting worse?)

I guess from the 70's/80's on you're seeing the gangland stuff come in to boost the numbers. Pity we don't have figures for murders arising from pissups gone sour.

mike65

The per 100,000 thing is crazy for murder in Waterford or indeed any Irish county, 1 person get done in its 1 in 100,000 2 get done in its 1 in 50,000 but are you now twice as likely to get murdered? Nope. In 2006 one of the dead was killed by someone passing through if I recall correctly.

abouttobebanned

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

ex_infantry man

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

did you hear that also???

abouttobebanned

Yes and I'm hoping its a nasty rumour.

cocoshovel

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes and I'm hoping its a nasty rumour.

Has been spread many times before, so Id be skeptical.

cocoshovel

From RTE website

Gardaí are treating the death of Joe O'Brien as suspicious.

hardybuck

merlante wrote: »

Jesus, where have you lived? In fairness, there are 100 cops in Waterford and they are there for a reason. You wouldn't necessarily hear about everything that goes on in your area.

Murders are rare enough. They are always felt to be bizarre/horrifying/out of place, wherever they happen, because they are thankfully rare. I would say, without checking the statistics, that murders are down over time. I mean, you only have to go back to the troubles and the formation of the state, etc.

Statistically speaking, if you want to predict a chance of something really bad kicking off in a group, the criminal records, education and occupations of the group members will be a much better predictor of serious crime than the area one of them happens to live in. Particularly, when there are plenty of students and quite a few families in the area in question and, realistically, they are much less likely to be killing each other.

I would also hope that if and when the perpetrator is charged and put away that there wouldn't be too many other would-be murders in the area!

Re the park, it's a lot safer than it used to be, even a few years ago. 3am is probably not the safest time to be wandering around anywhere.

Jesus where have you lived!? If Gardai ever entered where I grew up in Waterford (Newtown) it would be to investigate a burgulary rather than someone getting attacked on the street or stabbed in the home. If someone didn't cut their grass once a week people would hear about it. I'm sorry if violent attacks became a normal part of life where you lived, and I don't think it should be classed as normal.

The criminal records, education and occupation will have an impact on income, and therfore where people decide to live. So basically some areas are rougher than others, i.e. the area where this occured. Thanks for backing up my piont for me.

Back to point though, these types of attacks are becoming increasingly frequent. We can't really blame politicians or Gardai for this, people are just getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent. Were incidents like this happening 20 or 30 years ago?

jo06555

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Please tell me that it wasn't how do that was killed

Serious??? I taught him straight away for some reason , harmless owl fella hope not true , only seeing him other day with his plastic cup down on mall

cocoshovel

jo06555 wrote: »

Serious??? I taught him straight away for some reason , harmless owl fella hope not true , only seeing him other day with his plastic cup down on mall

See my post down below that with the RTE quote. They name who the person was. I dont think thats his name.

merlante

hardybuck wrote: »

Jesus where have you lived!? If Gardai ever entered where I grew up in Waterford (Newtown) it would be to investigate a burgulary rather than someone getting attacked on the street or stabbed in the home. If someone didn't cut their grass once a week people would hear about it. I'm sorry if violent attacks became a normal part of life where you lived, and I don't think it should be classed as normal.

The criminal records, education and occupation will have an impact on income, and therfore where people decide to live. So basically some areas are rougher than others, i.e. the area where this occured. Thanks for backing up my piont for me.

Back to point though, these types of attacks are becoming increasingly frequent. We can't really blame politicians or Gardai for this, people are just getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent. Were incidents like this happening 20 or 30 years ago?

I can assure you that, even in Newtown, people have been arrested for assault at various points.

Let break it down for you: some areas have a mix of people, some of whom have criminal records, low education and low-income occupations, and others of whom come from various other backgrounds, i.e. students, economic migrants etc.; other areas have predominantly people who have criminal records, low education and low-income occupations -- these are the bad areas. If you think scotch quay is one of the more dangerous areas of the city then I find it hard to take your argument seriously. (Obviously a few very hard men on here -- who are clearly scumbags -- probably lording it down in Limerick now.)

The homocide figures that were cited earlier clearly show that although murders have increased over the years, society has not suddenly erupted into carnage in very recent times. But anyway, I have no idea what point you are trying to make, when you imply a) that stabbings are so rare you'd hear all about it, and b) attacks are increasingly frequent and people are "getting out of their minds and becoming more and more violent". If you mean that things have *suddenly* gotten worse, that doesn't appear to have happened. Do you think maybe you might have an overly rosy picture of your childhood and are just watching the news more these days?

Bluezar

Just asked a Garda outside our flat and it was not How do that was killed

BlaasForRafa

1967 wrote: »

The chap who died was a harmless individual and never put in or out on anybody,yes he liked a drink but that does in no way mean he should have his life taken,the guy arrested is not out of prison long for a very violent offence in the same area five or six years ago,for the intuative people on this forum the guy arrested has a brother with a few dogs

Think I know who you're talking about because I heard that rumour tonight as well.

Adyx

merlante wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. That man who died, died not because he went for a walk along Scotch quay. He died because he knew the wrong people. If the group had been over in his house, instead, we'd be talking about a 'suspicious death' in Spring Garden alley.

Where would you prefer to live? Somewhere where every once in a while somebody gets beaten up on the street, or somewhere where nobody ever gets beaten up on the street but where somebody gets killed by acquaintances behind closed doors? I'd take the safe streets, personally. And there'd want to be a lot more murders and stabbings before I'd be reluctant to recommend an area in which I have never witnessed any violence. There are plenty of housing estates where people haven't been murdered but where gangs roam and occasionally attack people. That is not where I would like to live.

I remember one year Waterford was named 'murder capital' for its murder rate. Did we all stop recommending Waterford as a place to live? (That was for 4 (!) murders in the city and county that year, by the way.)

As far as I'm concerned, these violent incidents are a function of the sort of people the victims hang around with. Until members of the general public start getting preyed upon, beaten up, robbed, etc., I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an area to someone. (You may remember that an individual was beaten to death in the park by a couple of guys with hurleys a few years back. This has stopped neither parents bringing children to the park nor joggers running late into the evening -- and rightly so -- it was a private matter.)

mike65 wrote: »

The per 100,000 thing is crazy for murder in Waterford or indeed any Irish county, 1 person get done in its 1 in 100,000 2 get done in its 1 in 50,000 but are you now twice as likely to get murdered? Nope. In 2006 one of the dead was killed by someone passing through if I recall correctly.

I didn't think I'd be agreeing with Merlante after the last thread but to be honest this is pure sense. Unless you're in with the wrong crowd I think Waterford is in general a very safe place. You're always going to have your scumbags knocking around but even walking home from town to Cherrymount along the Cork/Tramore Road at 2:30-3:00 in the morning, I've never felt in any real danger. Relatively speaking, I think Waterford is quite safe for your average person.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Think I know who you're talking about because I heard that rumour tonight as well.

Longish grey/white hair is the rumour I heard but I hope not. Obviously RIP to whoever it may be.

cocoshovel

I dont think anybody has read my previous posts

jo06555

cocoshovel wrote: »

I dont think anybody has read my previous posts

Yes we know the name Joe o brien but most people would not know these lads on real name terms although I think I'm getting idea of the man would he be wearing cap most times and shouting my town??? Skins I think I remember nickname no??

calvin_zola

the murdered is an ex factory worker, and cabbie according to the sun....

mike65

wsopchamp wrote: »

As to the debate going on about the safeness of the Scotch quay area..i think crime doesn't discriminate,,all areas are fair game for criminals (in their eyes )..anyone can be murdered,beat up, assaulted, robbed in any area at any time..these people just don't care ,,,although not an every day occurrence it is getting more and more common.

That's much truer in theory than fact, just as you can trace much of the prison population back to a handful of locations, the majority of violent crimes tend to occur in a relatively small number of areas.

For example in Waterford you are much more likely to get done over in Michael Street than Lower Newtown despite the population of the former being much smaller.

Potential-Monke

jo06555 wrote: »

Yes we know the name Joe o brien but most people would not know these lads on real name terms although I think I'm getting idea of the man would he be wearing cap most times and shouting my town??? Skins I think I remember nickname no??

It's not that lad, this city couldn't be fortunate enough for him to be involved in something like that... (Having to listen to him on a near daily basis, you'd agree).

calvin_zola

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's not that lad, this city couldn't be fortunate enough for him to be involved in something like that... (Having to listen to him on a near daily basis, you'd agree).

yeah its definitly not 'my town'... was talking to a fella who knew him, said he was a small lad, ran the roads quite a lot

gobo99

Is it a boards.ie policy now that people can speculate wildly in situations like this, I always thought at least a link might be required before declaring someone dead. Or maybe it's just the unfortunate few without homes that this doesn't apply to.

wsopchamp

mike65 wrote: »

That's much truer in theory than fact, just as you can trace much of the prison population back to a handful of locations, the majority of violent crimes tend to occur in a relatively small number of areas.

For example in Waterford you are much more likely to get done over in Michael Street than Lower Newtown despite the population of the former being much smaller.

stats might well back up your point and i would not argue the fact that certain ares of all cities have there troublesome parts,
my point was that crime can (and does)happen in all regions ..it probably does happen in Michael st more than in Lower Newtown.... but crime does happen in lower Newtown the same as it happens in other "poshish " areas.
And i have just come from the lower Newtown area within the last hour and i didnt see 1 door left open..so obviously the residents of that area dont share your views;)

kryogen

I have an inkling of who it might have been, the victim that is, does the nickname Crocodile Joe mean anything to anyone? From description, age etc it sounds like him.

mike65

wsopchamp wrote: »

And i have just come from the lower Newtown area within the last hour and i didnt see 1 door left open..so obviously the residents of that area dont share your views;)

Sunny over there is it? :pac: