Pregnant women smoking and drinking

prinz

eviltwin wrote: »

..... all the things pregnant women are told not too etc.

..and why are they told not to? Could it be...............there is actually a right and wrong? :eek:

Stupify

prinz wrote: »

It's my opinion that Foetal Alcohol Syndrome exists, and is caused by the mother ingesting alcohol while pregnant?

I wasn't talking about the existence of FAS. I can see how it may have come across as that tough.

It is your opinion that women who consume alcohol during pregnancy are wrong, and I would agree with your opinion. And so might the woman who is doing it but we cannot lock her up or anything like that to prevent her from drinking.

iguana

Mindkiller wrote: »

Yeah, but the reason I mentioned iron content is because the idea of pregnant women drinking Guinness seems to have always been grounded on this belief that it is a good source of iron. While in reality it only accounts for a really minute amount of a person's RDA.

Maybe there are other benefits I haven't heard of

Guinness is a decent source of anti-oxidants, as is red wine. That's where the reasoning that it is good for you comes from. Of course lots of things that pose no risk at all to the foetus are also good sources of anti-oxidants like certain fruits and vegetables. As long as you give them a good wash before eating them they'll be nothing but good for both parties. Eating a handful of dried berries/figs will give you all of the goodness you will get from drinking wine/Guinness with none of the harmfulness of the alcohol and with extra vitamins and aid your bowel movements (something critical in most pregnancies as constipation is common for pregnant women).

But the reason it is unlikely this can ever really be legislated for is because where does it stop? There are lots of potentially harmful foods that you should avoid completely in pregnancy, like uncooked meats, paté, raw eggs, mouldy cheeses, etc. Do you ban those too? What about things that are ok in moderation but harmful if too much is taken, like coffee, tea, cola, fish, herbal teas? How do you police that? Give women weekly ration cards? What about the fact that different countries have different guidelines, for example the UK limit on caffeine is about half that recommended in the US? What about general diet? If a woman is going to do the very, very, very best for the foetus, Ideally she should be eating only an organic, non-processed, fruit and veg filled diet, including fish, of limited variety and amount but definitely including it. But what if she has a generally healthy diet but indulges in a bag of chips, a fizzy drink or a chocolate bar on occasion? Does that make her a terrible mother? Some people would think so, so where do you draw the line?

Stark

iguana wrote: »

Guinness is a decent source of anti-oxidants, as is red wine. That's where the reasoning that it is good for you comes from.

The theory that anti-oxidants are beneficial to health is largely disproven I believe. (Not that it stops health "gurus" pawning them off on people).

Julia London

Tayla wrote: »

I think most people would remain in denial regardless and still wouldn't change their diet but we have to start somewhere because as a nation it's getting worse. I spent a lot of time in hospital during my second pregnancy due to unexplained bleeding and so I met a lot of ladies who were overweight and in there due to high blood pressure, which may have been linked to their weight in the first place and a lot of them would be giving out about the smokers too, they were all high and mighty thinking they were better than them. Of course there was also some pregnant overweight smokers too, one in particular stood out, she was extremely obese and could barely breathe, she had an oxegen mask most of the time but she still made her way out for cigarettes and her visitors used to bring her in loads of crappy food and smokes



Yes the studies all suggest that all those things are a risk, there is also a link between asthma and the pregnant women being obese or overweight.

I have never heard of the link between ashtma and overweight mothers. its certainly not something your doctor advises you of.
But then im normal weight on my pregnancies maybe they tell overweight mothers this?
But ur defo advised dont smoke and dont drink much.
I would think smoking and drinking is far far worse then being overweight and pregnant. If your overweight and pregnant and eating the the required vitamins that is etc not just scoffing cream buns.
Also the majority of women i met in the maternity were normal, some maybe a bit overweight. But i never saw one who was huge and couldnt walk or breathe. Maybe in USA.
Be interested to see if there is any doctor/nurse on boards who could give advise?

eviltwin

Stark wrote: »

The theory that anti-oxidants are beneficial to health is largely disproven I believe. (Not that it stops health "gurus" pawning them off on people).

Is it full of iron? I'm old enough to remember the days you would get a pint after a blood donation, ah them were the days

iguana

Stark wrote: »

The theory that anti-oxidants are beneficial to health is largely disproven I believe. (Not that it stops health "gurus" pawning them off on people).

They are good for helping reverse sperm dna fragmentation, that's all I know for sure.

micropig

iguana wrote: »

They are good for helping reverse sperm dna fragmentation, that's all I know for sure.

Also has an anticoagulant effect like Asprin, reduces the risk of blood clots

Neyite

All a woman can do is make an informed choice. I dont think a woman's rights should be taken away from her purely because she is pregnant.
Maybe I'm biased, but since there are such conflicting opinions in the medical profession alone with some doctors saying a small glass here and there is no harm and others believing strongly that even the smallest drop of alcohol could cause harm.

To give another example, in preventing SIDS, in the seventies, babies were supposed to lie on their tummy, in the early eighties new mammies were told to lie them on their side, then in the early naughties, they were told to swaddle them and have them on their back, now I'm being told not to swaddle, and to lie baby on their back.

We are being told that cot bumpers and pillows are dangerous for a baby who rolls into them and cannot roll back can suffocate. And to use a cellular blanket instead of a duvet for baby. So because they are potentially dangerous to the health of the baby, we are told by our health service not to use them. Yet all the baby shops show cutsey matching bumpers, pillows, and duvet sets for cots that are unsafe according to the HSE.

I quit smoking several years before I became pregnant. I did so, because like Iguana has posted, I knew smoking can affect not only my overall health, but also my fertility. I always drank moderatly so dont feel as if I am missing out massively by not having an alcoholic drink for a short time out of my life.

I personally dont understand the women who choose to drink or smoke through pregnancy, but judging them? I wouldnt. Instead they deserve all and any support systems in place to ensure that they make the better choice for them and baby. To me, this should include all aspects of the health of the mother and baby, including obesity as Tayla has pointed out - some do use their pregnancy to over-indulge, saying they are eating for two. If a newborn baby's tummy is the size of a large marble, how much "eating for two" is actually used by baby?

I have avoided bagged salad, unwashed raw produce, alcohol, anything with raw eggs - mayonnaise based things like coleslaw, tiramsu, carbonara, dessert mousses, cheesecakes, cured meats and fish, all shellfish, all unpasteruised cheeses and dairy products, general junk food and drink, smoky or crowded venues, animals that I was told to avoid, since August. Yet it seems no matter what I do or do not do, someone will judge me - I had someone eyeball me at christmas because I had a can of coke, (which a midwife and a GP and a nutritionist had told me was perfectly acceptable.) That person would sooner eat cheese that possibly contains listeria, which can cause foetal death, yet me making the baby a bit giddy for 30 mins was me being deemed a terrible person.

prinz

Neyite wrote: »

I personally dont understand the women who choose to drink or smoke through pregnancy, but judging them? I wouldnt. Instead they deserve all and any support systems in place to ensure that they make the better choice for them and baby.

But you are judging them. You are judging that they are making bad choices in choosing to drink or smoke, and as it happens if a mother is drinking during a pregnancy she is also far more likely to be a smoker (it may be vice versa) than drinking or smoking individually which doubles the threat. Don't be afraid of the J word. Judging their decisions to be poor doesn't preclude help and support.

iguana

Neyite wrote: »

Yet it seems no matter what I do or do not do, someone will judge me - I had someone eyeball me at christmas because I had a can of coke, (which a midwife and a GP and a nutritionist had told me was perfectly acceptable.) That person would sooner eat cheese that possibly contains listeria, which can cause foetal death, yet me making the baby a bit giddy for 30 mins was me being deemed a terrible person.

If you don't have any other source of caffeine you can drink 5 cans of coke a day during pregnancy and still fall below NHS guidelines. I wouldn't necessarily drink that much, pregnant or not, but having a little every now and then is fine. I avoided it until 12 weeks but I'll have small glass on occasion now though lime juice and soda is my drink of choice at the moment.

Neyite

prinz wrote: »

But you are judging them. You are judging that they are making bad choices in choosing to drink or smoke, and as it happens if a mother is drinking during a pregnancy she is also far more likely to be a smoker (it may be vice versa) than drinking or smoking individually which doubles the threat. Don't be afraid of the J word. Judging their decisions to be poor doesn't preclude help and support.

Probably judging them is the wrong word I used then. What I meant was I wouldnt walk past a pregnant woman smoking outside my antenatal clinic and think "scumbag bad mother" I'd think its an addiction that has her caught the way I used to be a slave to the things.

I was lucky enough to plan to give up the smokes long before I got pregnant. If I'd had an unplanned pregnancy while a smoker I dont know if I would have managed to quit then.

Tayla

Julia London wrote: »

I have never heard of the link between ashtma and overweight mothers. its certainly not something your doctor advises you of.

There are has been several studies done on the link between the two.

Julia London wrote: »

But then im normal weight on my pregnancies maybe they tell overweight mothers this?

I'm not overweight either, I was told by one doctor only "don't eat cakes or sweets etc, it's very bad for baby" but he didn't go into detail

Julia London wrote: »

I would think smoking and drinking is far far worse then being overweight and pregnant. If your overweight and pregnant and eating the the required vitamins that is etc not just scoffing cream buns.

I'm not sure in regards to drinking, I am completely against it, personally I would probably regard drinking alcohol as probably the worst one out of the 3 but i'm not completely sure but would class smoking and being overweight as equally as dangerous as each other.


If you're overweight but eating correctly and getting the right amount of vitamins then i'm not sure if the fact that somebody is overweight does have a negative effect on the baby, I haven't seen such a study but in reality I wouldn't imagine very many pregnant women (overweight or not) have the required amounts of vitamins needed (especially without taking multivitamins)

Julia London wrote: »

Also the majority of women i met in the maternity were normal, some maybe a bit overweight. But i never saw one who was huge and couldnt walk or breathe. Maybe in USA

A study in 2010 of 5800 pregnant women showed that 28% were overweight, 13% were obese and 2% were morbidly obese, that's too high.

iguana wrote: »

If you don't have any other source of caffeine you can drink 5 cans of coke a day during pregnancy and still fall below NHS guidelines. I wouldn't necessarily drink that much, pregnant or not, but having a little every now and then is fine. I avoided it until 12 weeks but I'll have small glass on occasion now though lime juice and soda is my drink of choice at the moment.

Yes but if you drink 5 cans of coke a day (and going by the parenting forum I use it's actually quite common for excessive coke drinking in pregnancy) you're taking in an obscene amount of sugar which is not good for the baby.
http://www.avivahealth.ie/whats-new/general-health/2011/12/13/801237233/index.xml

Julia London

Maybe doctors need to be singing from the same hymbook. I was told bt mine to gain as much weight as i liked! that plenty of time after to loose weight. Thankfully i gained 1.5 stone only.
My sister in law was overweight (not obese), she went on a low GI diet throughout her pregnancy and stuck to it. She still was overweight but she really did stop eating crap and was eating better than most healthy people.
Antenatal vitamins should be given out at your first app. I would hope most pregnant women are taking pre natal vitamins and folic acid.
I still think smoke and alcohol coming down on a baby is worse than sugar. But im totally opening to hearing more about it.

Mod: re-reg Banned.

iguana

Tayla wrote: »

Yes but if you drink 5 cans of coke a day (and going by the parenting forum I use it's actually quite common for excessive coke drinking in pregnancy) you're taking in an obscene amount of sugar which is not good for the baby.
http://www.avivahealth.ie/whats-new/general-health/2011/12/13/801237233/index.xml

Yeah I know that, that much coke isn't good for anyone, pregnant or not. But in Neyite's story she was getting judged for the caffeine. If she'd been drinking 7up or Fanta she probably wouldn't have been getting the stink eye.

iguana

Julia London wrote: »

Antenatal vitamins should be given out at your first app. I would hope most pregnant women are taking pre natal vitamins and folic acid.

Ideally a woman should be taking the folic acid for at least 3 months before she gets pregnant. Not easy to do for an unplanned pregnancy but anyone trying to conceive should start them before they try.

Abi

prinz wrote: »

It's my opinion that Foetal Alcohol Syndrome exists, and is caused by the mother ingesting alcohol while pregnant?

I don't know about you Prinz, but it has come to my attention reading this thread that not everyone should be allowed to reproduce..

I'd quit while you're ahead, with that kind of mentality you will never make them see the light.

Stupify

Abi wrote: »

I don't know about you Prinz, but it has come to my attention reading this thread that not everyone should be allowed to reproduce..

I'd quit while you're ahead, with that kind of mentality you will never make them see the light.

Nobody was saying that FAS did not exist or that it isn't caused by the mother ingesting alcohol while pregnant.

Neither do I remember this being some sort of race where some people are "ahead" of others.

Everyone here takes this seriously and nobody is suggesting that it’s ok to smoke and drink while pregnant.

But people seem to want to make it illegal to do this which for one thing won’t stop the problem because some would still do it and it would be impossible to police. Never mind that it wouldn’t stand up in the European courts.

one4on

MellowToast wrote: »

nope don't make it illegal. if they are stupid enough to do that to their unborn child then **** them.

WE DON'T NEED LAWS FOR MORONS

Yes, but what about the rights of the unborn child? To be honest most of these people doing it are social welfare recipients and/or are completely unfit parents. They should have their child seized at birth and put up for adoption. Human rights keeps getting in the way of proper punishment and justice for scum like these mothers who abuse their unborn children.

senordingdong

one4on wrote: »

Yes, but what about the rights of the unborn child? To be honest most of these people doing it are social welfare recipients and/or are completely unfit parents. They should have their child seized at birth and put up for adoption. Human rights keeps getting in the way of proper punishment and justice for scum like these mothers who abuse their unborn children.

I'll go one further than that and say that these people (like alot of other people in our societies) should have restrictions on their reproduction to begin with.

one4on

Julia London wrote: »

Maybe doctors need to be singing from the same hymbook. I was told bt mine to gain as much weight as i liked! that plenty of time after to loose weight. Thankfully i gained 1.5 stone only.
My sister in law was overweight (not obese), she went on a low GI diet throughout her pregnancy and stuck to it. She still was overweight but she really did stop eating crap and was eating better than most healthy people.
Antenatal vitamins should be given out at your first app. I would hope most pregnant women are taking pre natal vitamins and folic acid.
I still think smoke and alcohol coming down on a baby is worse than sugar. But im totally opening to hearing more about it.

Mod: re-reg Banned.

Interesting Username, you wouldn't happen to be JulieLondon would you??

El Weirdo

one4on wrote: »

Interesting Username, you wouldn't happen to be JulieLondon would you??

Interesting. You wouldn't happen to be

• bananarama22
• why_oh_y
• KeithM89..
• claphappy
• pjmcginty
• anglican
• I_am_troll
• ShamrockShakes
• usrename
• fatbastard
• fish_sticks
• gator_or_croc
• KiethM89
• troll_is_back
• homolytically
• Fluoresence

would you?


Banned.

Sure the state hands out methodone to expectant mothers, cigs and alcohol seem rather tame in comparison.

parc

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Is it harmful for a pregnant woman to drink alcohol? Obviously, getting pissed out of her head at eight months, yes, but - complete abstinance?

yes complete abstinence when pregnant is an absolute must. i remember the first time I saw a fully pregnant woman smoking (and I don't see it too often tbf) and it was truly shocking.

do any amount of drink and drugs when not pregnant, if you want to, but if you do it when you're pregnant, then you're scum

Stark

parc wrote: »

yes complete abstinence when pregnant is an absolute must.

Is that a medically qualified opinion?

analucija

parc wrote: »

yes complete abstinence when pregnant is an absolute must. i remember the first time I saw a fully pregnant woman smoking (and I don't see it too often tbf) and it was truly shocking.

do any amount of drink and drugs when not pregnant, if you want to, but if you do it when you're pregnant, then you're scum

As my obstetrician said, if my wife couldn't drink wine or coffee we'd have no children.

ceadaoin.

prinz wrote: »

I'm not. Plus if you go back the Independent article I linked to previously showing the study on some of the maternity hospitals you'll see three cases of FAS were identified, one from a case involving IIRC 0-5 units of alcohol per week, that could be two glasses of wine a week.

I'm sure that if someone were drinking to excess during pregnancy they might be reluctant to admit it. A study of 400,000 pregnant mothers in the US didn't find a single case of FAS when the alcohol consumption was under 8.5 drinks per week

DonQuay1

dark crystal wrote: »

I don't think it should be made illegal, no. There's no way to really police it.

Besides, a glass of wine every now and then isn't going to do any harm.

I do think it would be a good idea if the health boards could provide quit-smoking packs and aids free of charge to pregnant women who smoke. Even when pregnant, it's a very hard habit to break.

Who pushed people to smoke in the first place? (Please - not the 'peer pressure' (I have no mind of my own) argument).

More free (It's NOT free - the TAXPAYER pays for it!!) stuff on the welfare!!! Is the social welfare supposed to provide women with everything?
You know that a couple of glasses of red wine a week are not bad for women these days? Maybe after the the pregnancy, women could ask the HSE to provide you with a bottle a week to get you up to pre-pregnancy levels of intake? If it's not bad for you - it must be good for you.
Would you like a holiday with that? You'll probably need some foreign sun to help your body with Vitamin C so ........ ask the HSE.
How about some 'free' 'quit-smoking packs and aids' .... for your 'partner' while you're at it? After all ... don't want him smoking around the children someday.
But - if you DON'T stop smoking .... with this 'free' help .... do you repay the taxpayer??

SusieBlue

It will never be made illegal but I really wish it could be enforced in some way.

Its only 40 weeks, I don't see why women can't just stop for 40 weeks. Especially knowing all the facts we currently know about how smoking affects the growing fetus, including stunting the growth and making a premature birth more likely.

Quitting is hard, I've given up smoking myself. My health and finances were enough to motivate me to do it, but I'd imagine a growing baby would give any woman an even bigger push to kick the habit.

I know current guidelines say that a small amount of alcohol every now and then during pregnancy is okay, but guidelines 10 years ago said 4-5 units was okay until they retracted that finding a while back because new data should that 4-5 units could cause damage. The current guidelines are 1-2 units.

Its just not a risk I'd be willing to take, God forbid anything bad were to happen I'd question my decisions forever. I definitely think knowledge is the key, that women are able to make informed choices based on a lot of personal research and medical opinions. If, after that, they can enjoy a fag or a drink, power to them. They're clearly comfortable in their decisions and its not for us to judge.

Its just not something I'd do myself, my mother smoked 20 a day while she was pregnant on me and I've got severe asthma now.

PrincessLola

senordingdong wrote: »

I'll go one further than that and say that these people (like alot of other people in our societies) should have restrictions on their reproduction to begin with.

restrictions on reproduction, you say?



That sounds totally humane not morally disgusting at all :pac:

The Radiator

It's a disgrace, Joe

senordingdong

PrincessLola wrote: »

restrictions on reproduction, you say?



That sounds totally humane not morally disgusting at all :pac:

It's morally disgusting for someone who isn't fit to look after one child, has a few and leaves them to run wild while the tax payer suffers the consequences and picks up the bill.

And that's just the situation here.

"It's my body and i'll **** my baby up if i want to."
Silly girls