Is sex with a Prostitute Rape?

mariano rivera

Just Reading, this book On the Game Prostitution in Ireland by Stephen Rogers

According to this book, a lot of Eastern European and African women are trafficked here and forced to work as sex slaves

Question: If a customer has sex with one of these girls is he guilty of rape?

token101

You thread title and opening post are two totally different things!!!

golden lane

mariano rivera wrote: »

Just Reading, this book On the Game Prostitution in Ireland by Stephen Rogers

According to this book, a lot of Eastern European and African women are trafficked here and forced to work as sex slaves

Question: If a customer has sex with one of these girls is he guilty of rape?

yes, but, unknowingly...i would say.....

Mickey Dazzler

No, just desperation.

micropig

mariano rivera wrote: »

Just Reading, this book On the Game Prostitution in Ireland by Stephen Rogers

According to this book, a lot of Eastern European and African women are trafficked here and forced to work as sex slaves

Question: If a customer has sex with one of these girls is he guilty of rape?

Depends
Is the girl a prostitute willingly?
Is she trafficked?

Rape is sex against a persons will, not what they do for a living

tfitzgerald

Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

DEFTLEFTHAND

Interesting one. If she consents to sexual intercourse then no rape occurs, but as you stated if the girl has been brought here illegally and is under duress from a third party to perform intercourse it could be a bit of a grey area really.

eth0

<obligatory unfunny joke about rape to get me banned goes here>

Chuck Stone

You could just as easily say that our laws facilitate rape, abuse and trafficking of prostitutes.

The more that prostitution is criminalised and driven underground the more it becomes a revenue stream for criminals and thugs.

Legalise.

Regulate.

Offer services to prostitutes.

DarkJager

No. That's like saying buying a pair of runners which were created in a sweatshop makes you guilty of supporting the practice. You're paying for something, it's not your responsibility to know where it came from.

strobe

DarkJager wrote: »

No. That's like saying buying a pair of runners which were created in a sweatshop makes you guilty of supporting the practice. You're paying for something, it's not your responsibility to know where it came from.

More than that even, it'd be like saying 'buying a pair of runners which may or may not have been created in a sweatshop from someone that gives every impression that they created them willingly for you to purchase makes you guilty of violation of employment law'...

So nah, doesn't make much sense.

I guess you could make the argument that if there is any possibility that someone has been exploited in the production of the runners, despite how things may outwardly appear, then you should ere on the side of caution and not purchase them... but that's a little different than the 'guilty of rape' thing.

Eric Cartman

the only thing thats a rape is the price :pac:

Rocket19

I wouldn't label it "rape". It's a difficult issue.
I would say though, that it could be very morally objectionable, especially if the context of the situation would suggest the girl has been trafficked, has been subject to coercion, etc.
However, there is also a lot of grey area to consider here, because I'd say few women are actually in the prostitution business for "kicks". Sure, having a pimp controlling her is obvious duress, but what about a woman who can't feed her kids and sees no other way to earn money? What about a girl who has serious self-esteem issues, who doesn't even see how selling herself may hurt her? No-one is holding a gun to her head in either case, but I'm not sure that makes it right.

I suppose it's up the guy (if he must pay for sex, and let's face it, this is always gonna happen) to gouge the situation, and the most he can really do is give her respect.

Effects

DarkJager wrote: »

No. That's like saying buying a pair of runners which were created in a sweatshop makes you guilty of supporting the practice. You're paying for something, it's not your responsibility to know where it came from.

It does show that you support sweat shops. Just because you might not think about it or choose to blank it out doesn't mean you aren't supporting it. Of course it's your responsibility to know where the goods you buy come from. You might not care where they come from but should think about it.

I don't think its a grey area if she was trafficed then she has no free will she is a slave . She has no consent to give unless she wants a beating . So In essence it is rape IMO

IM0

depends. can he mind read?

Casillas

Either way it's illegal;

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1206/limerick.html

juan.kerr

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

even if it's her night off work and she consents?

44leto

Nearly all prostitution in Ireland is consensual. It is done out of the prostitutes freewill.

Some are forced into it to support an addiction but that is another problem.

It is not rape as they actively tout for the business.

If the prostitute is trafficked, by my definition it is rape, but not by the client, by the people who have forced the prostitute to have sex with the client.

The client would not know if a pro is trafficked or not.

juan.kerr

44leto wrote: »

The client would not know if a pro is trafficked or not.

And if he does know he has a duty to report her to Immigration control so she can be sent home.

micropig

eth0 wrote: »

<obligatory unfunny joke about rape to get me banned goes here>

Made by a Garda:pac::pac:

Battered Mars Bar

Sadly alot of these career women may need to find another profession in the not so distant future as robot prostitutes will be the way to go.

admiralofthefleet

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

or is it shoplifting?

IvySlayer

Casillas wrote: »

Either way it's illegal;

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1206/limerick.html

No women charged?

What grinds my ****ing gears is women who go out and sell their bodies and then come back and say they're the victims.

Legalise it.

juan.kerr

IvySlayer wrote: »

No women charged?

What grinds my ****ing gears is women who go out and sell their bodies and then come back and say they're the victims.

Legalise it.

Yeah so we can tax their earnings and charge VAT.

Guy:Incognito

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Interesting one. If she consents to sexual intercourse then no rape occurs, but as you stated if the girl has been brought here illegally and is under duress from a third party to perform intercourse it could be a bit of a grey area really.

Even if shes being a prostitute against her will, how do you know unless you discuss the ins and outs of why she is a prostitute. So either way it cant be rape surely (possibly unless you do actually waste a few mins of the expensive time your paying for having a chat )

micropig

juan.kerr wrote: »

Yeah so we can tax their earnings and charge VAT.

Would they be entitled to free parking too?

IvySlayer

juan.kerr wrote: »

Yeah so we can tax their earnings and charge VAT.

Works in Nevada.

Sauve

IvySlayer wrote: »

What grinds my ****ing gears is women who go out and sell their bodies and then come back and say they're the victims.

Who does this? ^^

If it's a young girl that's been trafficked and forced into prostitution, then yes, she is a victim, plain and simple.

Prostitution, as it is intended, is not rape. It is consensual, a business transaction. Trafficking is a whole 'nother issue imo.

Robdude

If sex with a prostitute is rape; my boss is guilty of kidnapping me M-F from 8:00am - 6:00pm.

So long as both parties consent to the sexual act; it's not rape. If it takes money to get someone to consent, so be it. That's entirely legal in Ireland.

juan.kerr

micropig wrote: »

Would they be entitled to free parking too?

The prossies or the clients? She could probably 'validate parking' for the duration of session.

IvySlayer

Sauve wrote: »

Who does this? ^^

If it's a young girl that's been trafficked and forced into prostitution, then yes, she is a victim, plain and simple.

Prostitution, as it is intended, is not rape. It is consensual, a business transaction. Trafficking is a whole 'nother issue imo.

They arrested 21 men in an article above, nothing do with trafficking or forced prostitution. They were arrested and charged for ''soliciting prostitution services''.

Why have no women been charged in the above investigation? And yes, I've seen some slags offering themselves on the street. I've seen some lads tell them to piss off and the women start playing the victim card.

Sauve

IvySlayer wrote: »

Why have no women been charged in the above investigation?

"Judge Eamon O'Brien ordered all 21 to pay €470 to Doras Luimni, a support organisation for migrants, asylum seekers and refugees, as well as those who are victims of human trafficking or the sex industry."

There must be some reason for him to have done this - there's possibly an investigation on the girls in questions' backgrounds?

eviltwin

It should be legal. I don't think its rape if the woman is doing it herself out of free will. Even if that free will is driven by addiction. Obviously trafficking is a whole different story. Some men are well aware that the women are not doing it out of free will but don't care. They are as guilty as the traffickers and should be held accountable.

MrPudding

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

Joking...?

MrP

IvySlayer

Sauve wrote: »

"Judge Eamon O'Brien ordered all 21 to pay €470 to Doras Luimni, a support organisation for migrants, asylum seekers and refugees, as well as those who are victims of human trafficking or the sex industry."

There must be some reason for him to have done this - there's possibly an investigation on the girls in questions' backgrounds?

I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

No doubt in my mind if a prostitute gets caught they'll say not guilty and come up with some sob story. Wasting police and court time. Making it all the harder to find real traffickers.

Sauve

IvySlayer wrote: »

I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

Possibly. Hopefully tbh.
I don't have a problem with prostitution per se, but it is the responsibility of the client to ensure that the service he is seeking (in this case a girl), is there of her own free will.
It's bad enough that it has to be done illegally no matter what the circumstances, but a basic level of humanity and morailty should be employed by the guys visiting them.

Robdude

IvySlayer wrote: »

They arrested 21 men in an article above, nothing do with trafficking or forced prostitution. They were arrested and charged for ''soliciting prostitution services''.

Why have no women been charged in the above investigation? And yes, I've seen some slags offering themselves on the street. I've seen some lads tell them to piss off and the women start playing the victim card.

If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.

the men approached two plain clothes detectives and offered to pay for a sexual act.

juan.kerr

Robdude wrote: »

If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.

Was Stagg involved?

Battered Mars Bar

IvySlayer wrote: »

I don't know what happened, but if these men had sex with women involved in trafficking or having sex with women who were there against their will they would gotten more than fine though.

The investigation was a sting operation, the gardai guised as prositutes so no sexual act took place.

Sauve

Robdude wrote: »

If I'm understanding the article correctly; there were no women involved.

Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??

micropig

juan.kerr wrote: »

Was Stagg involved?

I don't believe so:D

Sauve wrote: »

Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??

Yep, most costume shops have the uniforms;);):D

Robdude

Sauve wrote: »

Ehhh, ladies can be detectives??

Yes - but being a detective is not a crime.

From the article - 21 men were arrested for 'soliciting prostitution services'. There were no women involved in the crime of soliciting prostitution services. Hence, none were charged.

howamidifferent

Not unless she forces you against your will...

Spunge

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Sex with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay

nah, that's theft.

true

howamidifferent wrote: »

Not unless she forces you against your will...

wonder if the OP was raped by a prostitute or what the problem is;)

or maybe just the wallet was raped.:D

enda1

Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.

Sauve

enda1 wrote: »

Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.

That's right, there's some loophole or other isn't there?

enda1

Sauve wrote: »

That's right, there's some loophole or other isn't there?

No. Well it's not a loophole really. Propositioning, street walking etc. are illegal, but paying for sex or being paid for sex is not.

44leto

enda1 wrote: »

Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland by the way for all the above posters who seem to think it is.

Yes it is and brothels are illegal, but you can be an escort and come to an arrangement as consenting adults.

Sauve

enda1 wrote: »

No. Well it's not a loophole really. Propositioning, street walking etc. are illegal, but paying for sex or being paid for sex is not.

44leto wrote: »

Yes it is and brothels are illegal, but you can be an escort and come to an arrangement as consenting adults.

Yep, had heard this before alright.
Doesn't make sense really, as if you can't proposition someone, then how do you come to an arrangement?!
Pull someone, then hope they pay you?