re hdmi

dharn

can a hdmi lead pass analogue signals ? , i am trying to connect a dvd player with no hdmi out to a denon home cinema amp and send the video via hdmi to the flatscreen tv,the video out is connected by composite outs to the amp the manual indicates that composite can be connected and upscaled and sent to the tv via hdmi, i am also trying to use arc to send audio from tv to amp this does not work either ! any advice

andy1249

can a hdmi lead pass analogue signals ?

No , no HDMI interface , sender or receiver , passes analog signals.

ARC is an optional feature of some HDMI 1.4 chipsets. Both sending and receiving devices must support this feature.
The cable has nothing to do with whether or not arc will work.

HDMI chipset version numbers have never applied to cables, though some sellers would like you to believe that they do.

the video out is connected by composite outs to the amp the manual indicates that composite can be connected and upscaled and sent to the tv via hdmi,

This feature is called "upconversion" and should not be confused with upscaling which is a different thing altogether.
Upconversion takes analog inputs and converts them to a Digital format compatible with the HDMI interface , for output over the HDMI connection.

Whether or not this feature of the amp also allows upscaling on these inputs , or if arc works with such inputs , is not a given , and should be checked in the amps specifications.

dharn

thanks for reply andy, i have a denon avr 2311 which claims it can do upconverting etc, the problem i have is i have a dvd player, and a chorus set top box that i can only connect successfully to the panasonic flatscreen tv with scart, so i have to keep swapping scart from set top box to dvd player as the tv has only 1 scart socket ,it is a new tv designed for hdmi so i am trying to connect the dvd player to the denon av amp and send the picture to the tv via hdmi, the audio out from dvd player goes to the amp via digital coax and works fine but i cant get picture to tv using composite to amp and hdmi to tv, attached is a page from the manual showing what i am trying to do but cannot make sense of it

mossym

1)connect your dvd player to one of the composite inputs on the amp. take note of which one

2)on your amp, switch to the input you'd like to use for the dvd player, go into the menu, select input assign( or something similar,should be under manual or video setup) and assign the composite input you used in the first step above to the input you selected on the amp. This assigns that composite input to be used whenever you select the input on the amp


if that isn't clear enough i'll have to download the manual and check the exact process

dharn

thanks mossy i made some progress today the output on the dvd player had to be changed to composite rather than rgb ,i needed to have it connected via scart first to see the on screen menu then go back to the composite inputs on the amp and found the picture coming through from the dvd player, but at the wrong screen size, and i could not change it it said it was being output at 16:9 but it was only half the screen with the ratio settings on the tv did not solve it either, modern technology seems to make life more complicated

mossym

dharn wrote: »

thanks mossy i made some progress today the output on the dvd player had to be changed to composite rather than rgb ,i needed to have it connected via scart first to see the on screen menu then go back to the composite inputs on the amp and found the picture coming through from the dvd player, but at the wrong screen size, and i could not change it it said it was being output at 16:9 but it was only half the screen with the ratio settings on the tv did not solve it either, modern technology seems to make life more complicated

when you say half the screen, what do you mean? black bars top and bottom? missing half the picture? whole picture but small?

dharn

whole picture but small like as if it was set to older tv ratio, but its not the dvd player is definitely set to 16:9. tv is also seeing the signal as wide as it pops up on screen for a second wide (it indicates wide ) but there is a large area to the left and right that is blank

andy1249

If the source material , that is the material from the DVD player , is native 4:3 then the upconversion process will add black bars to the sides to make a 16:9 picture.

It will automatically do this rather than distort the picture by stretching, distortion being always treated as a bad thing to do.

Likewise with widescreen content that is not natively 16:9 , black bars will be added bottom and top of the content rather than distort.

Given that the final upconverted "16:9" image is made up with black bars , there will be no adjustments possible within the amp or on your TV to "correct" this.

Settings on the original source player would be your only options , if they exist in relation to the composite output , which they may not.

mossym

there is a video processing technology in your avr as well, if you go into teh menu for the avr can you confirm it is set to be a 16:9 output as well? better off telling it to scale everything to 1080p.

dharn

i thought composite was superior to scart, everything worked fine with scart but i need the scart socket on tv for chorus settop box ,so am trying to get dvd via composite through amp and out via hdmi, after much work i have got to the point where i am getting the picture on screen but a very small version of it, in fact when i turn on the dvd player first and only have blue screen on telly from dvd that is small also the onscreen menu from the player for adjustment purpose is also small so it is not a question of differnt screen ratios with black bars being added top and bottom or at the sides

dharn

mossym wrote: »

there is a video processing technology in your avr as well, if you go into teh menu for the avr can you confirm it is set to be a 16:9 output as well? better off telling it to scale everything to 1080p.

ya thats what i was thinking mossy but the menu structure on the denon amp is really confusing at times sometimes i can find menus and sometimes cannot, you have to have a hdmi source playing to get in to hdmi setting menus, some time i find i can only change thing in manual settings which changes all the the audessy settings but i will keep at it , thanks for all the help

mossym

andy1249 wrote: »

Given that the final upconverted "16:9" image is made up with black bars , there will be no adjustments possible within the amp or on your TV to "correct" this.

.

not sure hat you mean by correct, but for dherns benift most tv's have modes that will stretch the center of the image and lose information form the sides(either top or bottom). for example, put on a 16:9 sports feed from sky or any channel, and most tvs will have at least 1 picture mode which will move the scores shown in the top left corner off screen, almost like an over bloated overscan.

i'm guessing you mean correct without stretching, which is why you "" it.

dharn

ya i could change the zoom level to fill the screen but it took 2 levels of zoom to fill it and at that stage it looked awful

andy1249

i'm guessing you mean correct without stretching, which is why you "" it.

Yes , without stretching , or otherwise making it worse. Thats why I have it in quotes.

Most TV's do indeed have some kind of zoom , but results are so poor that this is pretty much useless , and given that the original source was composite in the first place , zooming would certainly not help things.

i thought composite was superior to scart,

In terms of video quality , from the worst to the best it goes like this ...

Composite
Component S Video
Component RGB or YUV

Scart is an analog interface that carries both composite and component RGB video , it can be hacked to carry S video but this is not officially part of the standard.
Scart is limited to SD only.

Component RGB or YUV goes to 1080i HD only. 1080p is carried by some devices , but 1080p has never been , and never will be , officially supported by the standard.
Component interfaces capable of HD video come in sets of 3 RCA connectors.

HDMI is currently the best and most common interface available for Home video equipment. It is entirely digital.

Converting from any of the analog formats to the HDMI format is possible , but results vary hugely. Converting electronics are very expensive and are far from equal in terms of the quality of results , the method of conversion , and so on.

dharn

thanks andy it still does not explain why i am getting a reduced size image on the monitor ,not with black bars at the top and bottom or the sides just almost square in shape and not adjustable

dharn

i got it sorted... had to get in to input setup ...video and change output to full rather than 16 : 9 i am using ordinary phono leads for component connections at present, and seem to be losing a lot of picture quality, is this to be expected, i know the makers of the leads will say yes, but what about the real world

andy1249

i got it sorted... had to get in to input setup ...video and change output to full rather than 16 : 9 i am using ordinary phono leads for component connections at present, and seem to be losing a lot of picture quality, is this to be expected, i know the makers of the leads will say yes, but what about the real world

The cables are not the problem , rather the nature of the signal you are using is , Composite is the bottom of the pile in terms of quality , its a very sharp drop in quality from SD DVD , and of course no comparison at all to HD.

Phono or RCA cables are all capable of HD picture quality that would be hard to tell from HDMI. But the interface itself must support that. Composite does not. Its the most basic video signal of them all.

dharn

thanks andy, when you say composite do you mean component, i am connecting with component sockets green blue and red between dvd player and home cinema amp in order to avoid having to use scart for reasons already explained , the signal is being converted and passed via hdmi to tv with poor results, i was thinking if i connected the dvd player via component to tv perhaps i would get better results,(should i ) i have not tried it yet

andy1249

thanks andy, when you say composite do you mean component,

No , i just checked to make sure and I have not mixed up composite and component anywhere.

You have though , you said earlier in your first post that you were using composite , and repeated that many times later.

If you are using 3 x RCA sockets colored green blue and red then that is component video , not composite , composite video out on a DVD player is typically a single yellow connector accompanied by two more , which are usually red and white for stereo audio.

Component outputs on DVD players are usually limited to 480p video , if this looks bad after processing by your amp , then yes , try connecting directly to the TV and see if its better.

dharn

thanks andy will report back when i get time to try it its like something from the starship enterprise at the back of my home cinema amp

dharn

connected dvd via component directly to tv much better result, thanks all for your input