Renault's Shocking E.V Offer!!!

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't like the idea of paying €22k - €30k for a car, then having to pay 80 odd every month for a battery. This is another thing that will put prospective buyers off.

Not exactly, if you are going to buy a new car it will make total sense if you want to go electric. As it will cost no more than a car that gets a real 55 mpg per tank!

The 30k Leaf has no battery rental, that's why it costs 30K.

There are many diesel cars costing 20+k to buy new so why not buy electric if it meets your needs range wise, Zoe will have the best range of them all, rumours of a real 120 miles, we will see!

Renault will be making their own batteries in Europe in 2015, they are investing several million in the factory!

The leaf will be built in the U.K along with the batteries from 2015 reducing the cost.

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

Interesting offer.........def worth thinking about..........

Hold on - you mean the car heretofore did not include a method of charging at home - and you needed to fork out another €1k ??

So, how would you charge it at work, as-is ??

It's not worth €1,000, more like €500. The car uses a J1772 port to charge, you just need a compatible socket on the wall of your home. It's the same type of port as other cars use e.g Ford Focus, Nissan Leaf, Opel Ampera, Mitsubishi i MiEV, Tesla Model S, Fisker Karma, Volvo C30, VW Golf etc etc. It was probably worth a €1,000 over a year ago, but prices are already dropping rapidly and the ESB would buy them in bulk.

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

The 30k Leaf has no battery rental, that's why it costs 30K.

25k

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Lads, I am really not being smart, but can anyone explain me the whole battery renting?

So what if in 1 year I decide to sell my electric car? Does the new owner takes over payments? Or do I still have some sort of contract with Renualt?

Or if you write off car. Do you still pay?

I really like idea of electrc car after I heard more about Nissan leaf, but this battery thing is just weird.

The new owner will take out a new lease on the battery, probably the same battery not a new one, I would very much doubt a new battery would be installed. But I can't say for sure!

Your insurance will have to cover the battery.

From a guy in Holland (I think he might work for renault )

In Holland Renault made a document for isurance companies and the rules they must follow to insure a Twizy. Because the battery belongs to RFG (Renault Finance Group) and it states that the battery has to be fully insured at all time and that RFG will always be the benificiary when something happens to the battery. The document even says that the insured value of the battery is 3800 euro's and the write off is 10% per year.

You can find the Dutch document here: http://nivre.nl/userfiles/downloads/Flits%20januari%202012%20Renault%20ZE%20batterijverzekering.pdf

Free translation with google:
Information for insurance companies -insurance Introduction HE battery from Renault in November 2011 introduced a period of 1 year 4 electric cars on the Dutch market.Renault uses the term Z.E. which stands forZero Emission. The motto of Renault is that an electric car should be accessible to everyone!The Z.E. Renault business model is characterized by the unbundling of the car and the battery. The battery remains during the economic lifetime ownership of RenaultFinancial Services (RFS). Customer benefit is that the initial investment is low and monthlyrent is paid for the battery. Renault and RFSguarantee the quality of the battery: if by a technical fault, the battery capacity is insufficient, then it is replaced at no charge tothe customer. This business model does haveimplications for the insurance: the batteryshould be ensured, even if she has a different owner than the car. This document describesthe conditions required insurance must complybattery and put the product characteristics of the battery RFS ZE insurance at a glance

Sesshoumaru

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It must have been a while ago? The Leaf currently costs 25k



See my thread on the topic

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056608500

I also gave some hard data on how much I drive in one month and how much it cost me. See link to my post #38 in that thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78173980&postcount=38

So basically it now costs less than a 2.0 TDI Gold DSG by about 3 k! :eek:

What's that I hear about e.v's being too expensive ?

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Right... What if I manage to bend my brand new electric car around the tree outside dealership. Do I still pay battery rental, or do I pay a few grand to Reno for the battery in my car I newer owned?

Your insurance will cover the battery cost of about 10k, but if you wrap it around a tree chances are the battery will be the least effected!

Sesshoumaru

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

25k

Yes I saw that, impressive and hopefully not a limited time offer!

Cheaper than a 2.0 TDI Gold DSG, And costs a tiny fraction to run the Leaf compared to the Golf. Brilliant!

ShadowHearth

Deleted User wrote: »

Your insurance will cover the battery cost of about 10k, but if you wrap it around a tree chances are the battery will be the least effected!

It is really weird. It is like you own the car, but you don't own part of it. I am not sure about second hand sales of this now.

godtabh

Deleted User wrote: »

But most people won't get 55 mpg by the time they drive through Dublin or any other town, or for people who do school runs every day, So in reality you would probably save. You would without doubt save a lot of money over the 2 years!

I get 5.6l/100km (approx 50mpg) doing a daily commute of motorway/some city of about 40km and at least one 100km each way trip per week. Thats in a C4 1.6 hdi

To me that would leave the two cars on par with a day to day cost ie battery rental/fuel.

After reading this thread I am not sure if I would still go for one.

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Your comparing apples and oranges

Sorry I was wrong the Golf 2.0 TDI dsg High spec is 31,260 :eek:

The 1.6 TDI 105hp DSG high spec is 28,730. :eek:

It's not comparing apples and oranges it's a car v a car +the Leaf has a higher spec, for instance add remote activation of heating in a golf costs about 1500 Euro's, and about the same in a Passat if the option is even available in Ireland. And you certainly can't remote activate a/c

If I'm buying a car I take specification into consideration and value for money, bear in mind the Golf will cost much more to fuel than the Leaf. In my old A4 I worked out that 600 miles was about 96 Euros at the time and electricity would cost 12-14 Euro's absolute worst case!

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

I get 5.6l/100km (approx 50mpg) doing a daily commute of motorway/some city of about 40km and at least one 100km each way trip per week. Thats in a C4 1.6 hdi

To me that would leave the two cars on par with a day to day cost ie battery rental/fuel.

After reading this thread I am not sure if I would still go for one.

Is that your per tank measurement ? then an Fluence won't cost you any more to run and for the first 2 years rent free would save you a lot.

But if it were me I would wait for Zoe with it's much faster charging from a street charger, longer range. there simply isn't enough fast dc for the Leaf outside of Dublin! Where there are many ac esb chargers. For me to go to Galway and charge while I have a meal is perfect, or to whatever town has a fast charger to do my shopping etc. perfect!

OSI

OSI wrote: »

Cool, except by the time the Golf has to refuel from a full tank, you'll have to have charged the Leaf at least 5 times.

But at the high cost of Diesel, I couldn't give a Shi^

godtabh

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that your per tank measurement ? then an Fluence won't cost you any more to run and for the first 2 years rent free would save you a lot.

But if it were me I would wait for Zoe with it's much faster charging from a street charger, longer range. there simply isn't enough fast dc for the Leaf outside of Dublin! Where there are many ac esb chargers. For me to go to Galway and charge while I have a meal is perfect, or to whatever town has a fast charger to do my shopping etc. perfect!

Pretty much my per tank measurement along with the car trip computer over the last 10k km.

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It is really weird. It is like you own the car, but you don't own part of it. I am not sure about second hand sales of this now.

I would kill for a 2nd hand one at a good price! ;)No more ICE for me, the Prius is the last one, guaranteed!

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

Pretty much my per tank measurement along with the car trip computer over the last 10k km.

Not bad but it doesn't beat my Prius!

mad m

How fast does these electric cars go....

Sesshoumaru

mad m wrote: »

How fast does these electric cars go....

I know the Nissan Leaf can reach an indicated top speed of 167kph. No idea on the Fluence or Zoe.

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It is! People keep mentioning this remote heating like its the greatest option in the history of cars. The golf has features and abilities that the leaf doesnt have and vice versa. Get over it!

You get over it, Remote heating was just one example.

The cost to fuel being the biggest advantage.

2nd the lack of maintenance is another!

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

You get over it, Remote heating was just one example.

The cost to fuel being the biggest advantage.

2nd the lack of maintenance is another!

Not being able to complete one leg of my bi-daily commute is another major negative.

Also the Leaf is ugly as sin.

And not very enjoyable to drive if you care for that and many do.

A Bluemotion 1.6 TDI Golf is €25,500

If I had the choice between a cheap as chips Leaf to run or a manual Golf Diesel, I know I wouldn't be spending my money on the Golf!

Sesshoumaru

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It is! People keep mentioning this remote heating like its the greatest option in the history of cars. The golf has features and abilities that the leaf doesnt have and vice versa. Get over it!

These features are standard @ 25k on the Leaf. I actually just took this from an old post of mine from last year. I think it compares favorably to a 25k Golf BlueMotion.

7" touch screen computer for controlling everything from sat-nav to bluetooth and multimedia.
Telematics service built-in and free of charge. Can update itself online and even do neat stuff like read RSS feeds to you.
ESP and ABS are standard
Reversing camera is linked to 7" touch screen, put her in reverse and you have reverse camera with guide lines.
Everything from mirrors to windows and folding mirrors are electric.
Seats are extremely comfy and are well made (another leaf owner told me his son puked up in the car and it left no stain nor did fluids sink in - water repellent).
Wipers and and lights are all automatic and controlled by light/rain sensor
All lights that can legally be LED are LED and front light are auto levelling
Rear glass is tinted
Full automatic climate control
keyless entry and push start button
The cars bluetooth can pair with several different phones for calling or multimedia.
Climate and charging can be controlled remotely from PC or Android/iPhone
Electric parking brake
Cruise control and speed limiter

Paparazzo

Deleted User wrote: »

people are sceptical of new technology. And most people think they need an electric car with 300 miles range when they rarely need more than 50 a day.

Fine if they want to carry around a very expensive battery for the times they "think" they need it. As I keep saying faster charging is far more important than 300 miles range!

Or keep paying for petrol and diesel.

"rarely" is the key word there! Rarely means they still do need range, just the odd time. Even if you do 5 long drives a year, range is still a hassle that people don't want.
I think people (on boards.ie anyway) are very open to the electric car, but range and charging points is the killer.
Plus, we've all bought electronics with batteries and the manufacture battery life and the real world battery life aren't in the same ball park. That also makes people skeptical.

Sesshoumaru

Paparazzo wrote: »

"rarely" is the key word there! Rarely means they still do need range, just the odd time. Even if you do 5 long drives a year, range is still a hassle that people don't want.
I think people (on boards.ie anyway) are very open to the electric car, but range and charging points is the killer.
Plus, we've all bought electronics with batteries and the manufacture battery life and the real world battery life aren't in the same ball park. That also makes people skeptical.

The battery in your laptop and phone is completely different to the one in a Renault or Nissan EV.

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Not being able to complete one leg of my bi-daily commute is another major negative.

Also the Leaf is ugly as sin.

The Golf is not much better, I'd rather they both look like a Punto evo Abarth!

Sure if it doesn't meet your daily commute needs then you are going to have to be screwed for petrol or diesel. Or find a fast dc charge, or if I was going to Dublin and back every day I could charge in the Luas red cow and it's charged when I get back, charged and warm! oh yes!

Remember Zoe will charge from 0 in an hour or 0-80% in 30 mins when the charge points are upgraded.

Nissan are testing 10 min charging to 80% they have no eta yet, but they have it all the same!

For Forks Sake

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

These features are standard @ 25k on the Leaf. I actually just took this from an old post of mine from last year. I think it compares favorably to a 25k Golf BlueMotion.

7" touch screen computer for controlling everything from sat-nav to bluetooth and multimedia.
Telematics service built-in and free of charge. Can update itself online and even do neat stuff like read RSS feeds to you.
ESP and ABS are standard
Reversing camera is linked to 7" touch screen, put her in reverse and you have reverse camera with guide lines.
Everything from mirrors to windows and folding mirrors are electric.
Seats are extremely comfy and are well made (another leaf owner told me his son puked up in the car and it left no stain nor did fluids sink in - water repellent).
Wipers and and lights are all automatic and controlled by light/rain sensor
All lights that can legally be LED are LED and front light are auto levelling
Rear glass is tinted
Full automatic climate control
keyless entry and push start button
The cars bluetooth can pair with several different phones for calling or multimedia.
Climate and charging can be controlled remotely from PC or Android/iPhone
Electric parking brake
Cruise control and speed limiter

Big woop, my Golf has pretty much all those and more...

And this

OSI

OSI wrote: »

As they are both Li-Ion, what's so different?

There are incredible differences, Li-Cobalt as in laptops has a much much shorter life about 200-300 full cycles, nissan renaults are LiNm 1000 full cycles, but 1500-2000+ can be expected as you will never run it to 0 and they never allow a 100% charge.

Laptop batteries can easily go on fire but have a higher energy density but a much lower discharge rate, or power delivery. While the batteries in the leaf and renaults are safe and can deliver the power for acceleration!

The NMC coming in 2015 should have 1500-2000 full cycles, 100 miles real range would be 150k- 200k miles as I said you will not be allowed 100% cycles so I can see them lasting far longer.

The Ni-Mh batteries in the toyota rav-4 before Chevron Texaco pulled the plug on the batteries preventing further e.v development lasted over 150-000 miles!

The Prius batteries go for 400,000+ miles but obviously are far less stressed than a full e.v

MidlandsM

So, typically how much will it ADD to the esb bill to fully charge an E.V. overnight in my electric socket at home?

How would it impact on a typical home domestic electricity bill ?

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

The Golf is not much better, I'd rather they both look like a Punto evo Abarth!

Sure if it doesn't meet your daily commute needs then you are going to have to be screwed for petrol or diesel. Or find a fast dc charge, or if I was going to Dublin and back every day I could charge in the Luas red cow and it's charged when I get back, charged and warm! oh yes!

Remember Zoe will charge from 0 in an hour or 0-80% in 30 mins when the charge points are upgraded.

Nissan are testing 10 min charging to 80% they have no eta yet, but they have it all the same!

I would not be a fan of Volkswagen products but the Golf is infinitely better looking than a Leaf. The Leaf is a bulbous, bland and tacky design. It looks 20 years out of date.

30 minutes charging isn't practical for people to need to do on the way to and from work. Suppose (and this is not beyond possibility) that one should be required to make an emergency trip - same problem.

They have a limited market at the moment as a result of their range and charging times/locations. Until that changes drastically this offer smells of Renault (and others) selling cars that are not practical for a high percentage of buyers cheaply to drum up business and pay for development.

Sesshoumaru

OSI wrote: »

As they are both Li-Ion, what's so different?

I'll quote another Boards poster who built his own EV - www.evbmw.com

jackbauer wrote: »

Not to bore everyone to death but a point needs to be made regards EV batteries. The last time I checked the term "Lithium-ion Battery" actually encompassed some 27 different cathode chemisteries. The type fitted to mobile phones etc are COMPLETLY different from that fitted to a modern EV. Yes , certainly if I used cheap and nasty phone batteries in my car then I wouldn't get far or last long. On the other hand if I used an ev battery to power my phone I could talk until the end of time. The Lithium iron phosphate cell is gauranteed to reach at least 5000 cycles to 80% DOD and recent tests have shown this going out beyond 8000 cycles. Oh , and they have no measurable self discharge. The cell does not have a mechanism to allow it. So assuming no parasitic loads I can park my car at the airport , go on a 5 year holiday , come back and drive home.

Oh and on the cost issue. Two years ago my battery cost 4,500 euros delivered in a single quantity. Priced it last week. 3,250. I could buy a 24kwh battery off the shelf today (same capacity as the leaf) for 7,500 delivered in a single qty.

MidlandsM

MidlandsM wrote: »

So, typically how much will it ADD to the esb bill to fully charge an E.V. overnight in my electric socket at home?

How would it impact on a typical home domestic electricity bill ?

Many many times less than your petrol or diesel bills!!!

Roughly 1.60 for an off peak charge for 60-70 miles @60 mph and that's for a charge from 0 which you will never have.

People will see their electricity bill go up from say 80 euro's a bill to maybe 90 or whatever and think it's expensive where it would probably be costing 20 times that at a petrol or diesel pump but they don't see that go as easily.

A bit like the mobile bills, some people don't see it cheaper to go on bill pay as it's another bill, but if they are spending more money pm they don't see it handing over cash at the till for credit!