Renault's Shocking E.V Offer!!!

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Now? Why??

I'd wager the the vast majority of motorists would like to be able to drive more then 200-300kms in one go, or drive somewhere without having to worry if there is a charging point, or do more then 15k a year without having to pay extra for it?

IMO an EV is by no means the logical choice for most people buying a new car as their only form of transport ATM.



Also ICE has stood for In Car Entertainment for years before the EV heads decided to use it to describe the enemy.

I guarantee you if people had the choice between 100, 200 or 300 miles and the cost went up per 100 miles. I bet you would find most people will buy the 100 mile range car rather than carry a big expensive battery for the odd time they do more than 100 miles.

Faster charging is more important than 300 miles of expensive battery. And if zoe can do that in 30 mins, for me that's good enough, or the Leaf.

I doubt i'm the only person who thinks that.

Nissan doctor

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee you if people had the choice between 100, 200 or 300 miles and the cost went up per 100 miles. I bet you would find most people will buy the 100 mile range car rather than carry a big expensive battery for the odd time they do more than 100 miles.

Faster charging is more important than 300 miles of expensive battery. And if zoe can do that in 30 mins, for me that's good enough, or the Leaf.

I doubt i'm the only person who thinks that.

Neither do I, but I very much doubt you are in the majority.

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

Must have a crap lawnmower and hoover.

The motors in them items do give problems. No torque in them. Not a problem for a vacuum cleaner as much. The lawnmower relies on high speed in the blade. Hit heavy grass and it bogs down. Single phase induction motors just cant have good torque, and universal ones have the brushes to wear down.

The single phase universal brushed motors in them items compared to the type of motors used in electric cars or any industrial applications, would be like comparing a cheap office projector to a UCI cinema projector.

Matt Simis

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Matt Simis wrote: »

I dont care if I had no or low emissions. You are way off on the pricing though, my Audi S8 plus LPG is way way cheaper to buy and therefore total cost of ownership much much lower.

No you are missing the point, this discussion is about buying new ice V new e.v!

The original quote was about my LPG S8 and your reply on how I would save much more money by buying an EV. Which is of course rubbish from a TCO perspective.

LPG can be added to any awesome used car at far lower cost than buying any EV. Electric motors cannot be added to anything outside some limited fringe experiments. Unfair to compare new vs used? Sure, but I don't care for fairness.


LPG is an augmentive technology, EV is an all or nothing offer.

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

The motors in them items do give problems. No torque in them. Not a problem for a vacuum cleaner as much. The lawnmower relies on high speed in the blade. Hit heavy grass and it bogs down. Single phase motors just cant have good torque.

The single phase universal brushed motors in them items compared to the type of motors used in electric cars or any industrial applications, would be like comparing a cheap office projector to a UCI cinema projector.

Yes and the early electric bike hubs had brushes and were not that reliable or their controllers blowing fet's all the time.

The motor in my bike is 3 phase and all that moves is the wheel itself, it doesn't get more simple than that!

Saab Ed

I know if you've nothing good to say then you shouldn't say anything at all but ....

These E.V. threads always turn into a "my cock's bigger than your cock" battle. The EV owners unrelenting defence and prejuduce towards all things electric is almost offensive in its bias while the doubters non relevent arguments are just a bore.

E.V.s are better suited to some peoples needs as are ICEs. Thats it. Its like trying to figure out the intelligence of a fish by asking it to climb a tree. If you live in Athlone, have no charge point in work and drive to Dublin every day then an E.V. is useless, just useless. If you live in D4 and work in D24 then its perfect.

Can the E.V owners please stop insulting my own knowledge by insisting that anything can be done in an E.V. cause it can't. E.Vs are brilliant at what they do but stop claiming they are something they're not. It just puts everybody on the defensive when they have to listen to bullsh!t.

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

Not just handling/roadholding but ride and safety.

Trust me afaik that problem is nearly sorted out.

I think bosch have cracked it or almost. I'll see if I can dig up the article.

Nissan doctor

Saab Ed wrote: »

I know if you've nothing good to say then you shouldn't say anything at all but ....

These E.V. threads always turn into a "my cock's bigger than your cock" battle. The EV owners unrelenting defence and prejuduce towards all things electric is almost offensive in its bias while the doubters non relevent arguments are just a bore.

E.V.s are better suited to some peoples needs as are ICEs. Thats it. Its like trying to figure out the intelligence of a fish by asking it to climb a tree. If you live in Athlone, have no charge point in work and drive to Dublin every day then an E.V. is useless, just useless. If you live in D4 and work in D24 then its perfect.

Can the E.V owners please stop insulting my own knowledge by insisting that anything can be done in an E.V. cause it can't. E.Vs are brilliant at what they do but stop claiming they are something they're not. It just puts everybody on the defensive when they have to listen to bullsh!t.

Well said!

Speaking of hub motors or direct drive motors, washing machines are coming with direct drive, check this out.

Bruthal

It has to be noted as well, that if everyone had an EV next year, they would have some sort of tax on them, reducing or removing any cost advantages they have now. Taxing the "fuel" could be a tricky one, but some method would be used.

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

It has to be noted as well, that if everyone had an EV next year, they would have some sort of tax on them, reducing or removing any cost advantages they have now. Taxing the "fuel" could be a tricky one, but some method would be used.

There is tax on them ? v.a.t on purchase, road tax, tax on electricity!

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

There is tax on them ? v.a.t on purchase, road tax, tax on electricity!

Yea but petrol cars have all that.

Electricity is taxed 13.5 percent though. Petrol is probably 65 percent. The motor tax is a lot cheaper on EV`s at present is it not?

Either way, there would be a big reduction in motoring tax takes if everyone went EV. So its likely there would be some way found to make it up.

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

I know if you've nothing good to say then you shouldn't say anything at all but ....

These E.V. threads always turn into a "my cock's bigger than your cock" battle. The EV owners unrelenting defence and prejuduce towards all things electric is almost offensive in its bias while the doubters non relevent arguments are just a bore.

E.V.s are better suited to some peoples needs as are ICEs. Thats it. Its like trying to figure out the intelligence of a fish by asking it to climb a tree. If you live in Athlone, have no charge point in work and drive to Dublin every day then an E.V. is useless, just useless. If you live in D4 and work in D24 then its perfect.

Can the E.V owners please stop insulting my own knowledge by insisting that anything can be done in an E.V. cause it can't. E.Vs are brilliant at what they do but stop claiming they are something they're not. It just puts everybody on the defensive when they have to listen to bullsh!t.

e.v's are not suited to just some people, but quiet a lot that don't do more than 100 miles a day. That's a lot of people. Not you but you are not most people!

And I'm not an e.v owner, well apart from the bike lol

lavine7

Link to actual press release anyone?

keithclancy

Matt Simis wrote: »

The original quote was about my LPG S8 and your reply on how I would save much more money by buying an EV. Which is of course rubbish from a TCO perspective.

LPG can be added to any awesome used car at far lower cost than buying any EV. Electric motors cannot be added to anything outside some limited fringe experiments. Unfair to compare new vs used? Sure, but I don't care for fairness.


LPG is an augmentive technology, EV is an all or nothing offer.

Especially here and in Germany looking at the 5 year average price of LPG and CNG



And you can give an old car a new lease of life! Rather than stick it on the scrap heap and get a new one.

Preferably something V8 or V12

jackbauer

RoverZT wrote: »

An electric M5 with a 80kwh motor capable of 0-60 in 4 secs with no emissions would be a game changer.

Working on that. Well , an M3 actually. With two motors

Nissan doctor

Deleted User wrote: »

e.v's are not suited to just some people, but quiet a lot that don't do more than 100 miles a day. That's a lot of people. Not you but you are not most people!

And I'm not an e.v owner, well apart from the bike lol

There are many people who don't do more then 100 miles a day, but that doesn't mean they never do, maybe they do every weekend, or once a month. So and EV, as their only car, still doesn't suit them.

Currently IMO , full EV's are only suitable for people who commute from within the commuter belt to a city center location that has charging points etc and have a second family car for normal use.

There argument, which many EV advocates will conveniently forget, is that most people who could operate within the range of an EV, could also use public transport instead.

Matt Simis

jackbauer wrote: »

RoverZT wrote: »

An electric M5 with a 80kwh motor capable of 0-60 in 4 secs with no emissions would be a game changer.

Working on that. Well , an M3 actually. With two motors

What are these creations insured as and with who? I'm doing LPG and m3 engine transplants too and I know the issues of insurance and that's for established ICE stuff.

RoverZT

Matt Simis wrote: »

What are these creations insured as and with who? I'm doing LPG and m3 engine transplants too and I know the issues of insurance and that's for established ICE stuff.

Mad Lad said insurance will be grand.

Chassis, brakes will be grand as well, just have to watch for hot cables.

Once you hack into the controller to up the amps it's a piece of cake.

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea but petrol cars have all that.

Electricity is taxed 13.5 percent though. Petrol is probably 65 percent. The motor tax is a lot cheaper on EV`s at present is it not?

Either way, there would be a big reduction in motoring tax takes if everyone went EV. So its likely there would be some way found to make it up.

The motor tax is something like 40 euro's cheaper.

Water charges, property tax. That will earn the government a hefty few quid!

lavine7

lavine7 wrote: »

Link to actual press release anyone?

Jesus why do people only half read threads ?

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are many people who don't do more then 100 miles a day, but that doesn't mean they never do, maybe they do every weekend, or once a month. So and EV, as their only car, still doesn't suit them.

How so ? for that occasion they can charge the Leaf in 30 mins on a fast charger or wait for Zoe who can charge in 1 hr currently or 30 mins once the chargers are upgraded. There are many more ac chargers than dc.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Currently IMO , full EV's are only suitable for people who commute from within the commuter belt to a city center location that has charging points etc and have a second family car for normal use.

2nd car for normal use, is commuting not normal use ? most people will charge at home for their daily less than 50 mile commute, the rest can charge at various points or take the bus or use ice car. But most will charge at home.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There argument, which many EV advocates will conveniently forget, is that most people who could operate within the range of an EV, could also use public transport instead.

Indeed they could but unless the Government ban people driving within the commuter areas people won't give up their cars. Or ban city driving.

There are many places that coming from outside of Dublin bus is not practical.

But I completely agree with you for once, most of us use our cars way too much, I've cut down since I converted Leccy!

Electric bikes are more than capable of 20 miles a day commute and cheaper than the Bus, but people don't like rain and cold!

jackbauer

Matt Simis wrote: »

What are these creations insured as and with who? I'm doing LPG and m3 engine transplants too and I know the issues of insurance and that's for established ICE stuff.

Insured with AXA fully comprehensive as an electric vehicle conversion. Did take some doing though!

lavine7

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus why do people only half read threads ?

Why do people not reference material in their OPs?
I've been keeping close track on this thread and have yet to come across a mention of where you obtained that press release. Even a quick Google search fails to yield the location of the source!
How there is no mention of this on the Renault.ie makes it all the more baffling!

Please enlighten me as to what I've been missing.

jackbauer

jackbauer wrote: »

Working on that. Well , an M3 actually. With two motors

Still using the headways ?

jackbauer

Nope. A123 M1 cells. 250V and 1200A for about 250kw electric , 210kw at the shaft and 250hp at the wheels. In theory!

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea but petrol cars have all that.

Electricity is taxed 13.5 percent though. Petrol is probably 65 percent. The motor tax is a lot cheaper on EV`s at present is it not?

Either way, there would be a big reduction in motoring tax takes if everyone went EV. So its likely there would be some way found to make it up.

Deleted User wrote: »

The motor tax is something like 40 euro's cheaper.

Water charges, property tax. That will earn the government a hefty few quid!

The water charges and property tax are irrelevant to the point Robbie made If loads of the population sold their cars and bought a Leaf or similar a huge revenue deficit would be created. The folks in government would realise why and come up with a very simple way of recouping it


Just thinking there about the home charging, that's a non runner for anyone with on street parking or an apartment presumably?

jackbauer

jackbauer wrote: »

Nope. A123 M1 cells. 250V and 1200A for about 250kw electric , 210kw at the shaft and 250hp at the wheels. In theory!

Have you tried to get your hands on the 20ah pouch cells that A123 seemingly won't let anyone have ?

And I thought I was doing good with 7kw on my Bicycle!

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

The water charges and property tax are irrelevant to the point Robbie made If loads of the population sold their cars and bought a Leaf or similar a huge revenue deficit would be created. The folks in government would realise why and come up with a very simple way of recouping it


Just thinking there about the home charging, that's a non runner for anyone with on street parking or an apartment presumably?

Yes for now, I spoke to my brother whom I'm trying to convert to e.v and is buying a brand new A6, waiting 12 weeks, I really want to drive a leaf and he only does 14 miles a day!

EDIT---- I meant to say My brother said he couldn't get a charger in his appt space because he doesn't own it and sometimes he has to park in another part of the carpark.

I don't really know how apartment spaces work, but I'm sure you would need to contact the management agency ? You don't own it afaik ?

They would have to be a real ass not to allow you install a charger, hopefully there won't be many anti e.v people who makes those decisions.

As for on street parking maybe they can install an on street charger. But that would cost more for you to charge as they could not take it from your apt supply.

jackbauer

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you tried to get your hands on the 20ah pouch cells that A123 seemingly won't let anyone have ?

Got em;)