Renault's Shocking E.V Offer!!!

jackbauer

jackbauer wrote: »

Got em;)

Nice!

How about the Dow Kokam LiPo Cells ?

LiPo is the best for me due to the smaller size and weight, but you probably wouldn't want so much Zippy's in your BMW!

The Dow Kokam stuff seems to be great stuff though!

eringobragh

Jaysus Mad Lad you are like a child 2 months before Christmas!

Buy yourself an EV already for feck sake

eringobragh

eringobragh wrote: »

Jaysus Mad Lad you are like a child 2 months before Christmas!

Buy yourself an EV already for feck sake

I got one

Joe 90

Although I would reckon that the current crop of EVs can only realisticy considered as appealing to a nice market, I would think that in time they will become more practical for more people.
A couple of points though about what might happen when they do become more widespread.

What will the running costs be like when the government decides that they are going to recoup the tax from them that would be paid if they were powered by fossil fuels? There is no doubt that it will happen when they reach a critical mass. The only question is as to what mechanism will be used as trying to tax electricity at somewhere near 200% might make for a somewhat unhappy populace.
Ignoring the tax end of running costs I would reckon that we will have no real idea of what they are until a significant number of EVs have cycled from production line to breakers yard via several owners. Don't forget the first owner will be fairly well heeled and able to look after it as intended whereas the final owner or two will probably need to spend more money on it but will be unable to do so in big chunks. Hence he will probably spend more in dribs and drabs than the guy who can afford to do it properly. Happens in all walks of life.

Now people here are talking a fair bit about fast charging. Assuming that batteries are developed which are cost effective when fast charged, by that I mean that their useful life realtive to their cost is reasonable, I would think that a fast charge is still going to take a fair bit more time than pumping in a few gallons of motion lotion. Therefore you need more of these fast charge points than fuel pumps.

Zubeneschamali

Joe 90 wrote: »

A couple of points though about what might happen when they do become more widespread.

IF they become more widespread. I don't see it happening, I think they are just niche products for people who think they are cool, like the Prius.

They'll stay that way until batteries improve by a factor of 10 (which is hard, not like electronics where how to improve them is understood), or the oil runs out without any new breakthroughs, in which case the EV will be better than a horse and cart.

I don't drive a prius because I think it's cool, I bought it because it cost me 4 grand less than the cheapest half decent diesel I could find with far less miles and it's very good on petrol. That's the sole reason I bought it and because it's a decent size car, I didn't have to to a tiny diesel to boast about getting 60 mpg because it's half the size of a prius.



Joe90

Sure will need a lot more chargers, but they will be installed as the need arises. The e.s.b know at any time what points are being used and how often.

The problem is the fast dc chargers are a lot more expensive than the ac ones, and the zoe has the fast charger on board so all the esb have to do is provide the power, unfortunately the Leaf can only charge from a few fast dc chargers while zoe will be able to charge in 1 hour from any public point, 30 mins once they are upgraded.

I know what you are saying about the loss of revenue on fuel, but as long as ice's are on the road, they will have much higher tax!

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't drive a prius because I think it's cool, I bought it because it cost me 4 grand less than the cheapest half decent diesel I could find with far less miles and it's very good on petrol.

Fair enough, Parker's car comparison gizmo for the UK reckons a second hand '09 Prius and Golf 140 have the same fixed costs, and the Prius saves on running costs (including £0 road tax in UK), but maybe priusses suffer worse depreciation here in Ireland.

Joe 90

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't drive a prius because I think it's cool, I bought it because it cost me 4 grand less than the cheapest half decent diesel I could find with far less miles and it's very good on petrol. That's the sole reason I bought it and because it's a decent size car, I didn't have to to a tiny diesel to boast about getting 60 mpg because it's half the size of a prius.



Joe90

Sure will need a lot more chargers, but they will be installed as the need arises. The e.s.b know at any time what points are being used and how often.

The problem is the fast dc chargers are a lot more expensive than the ac ones, and the zoe has the fast charger on board so all the esb have to do is provide the power, unfortunately the Leaf can only charge from a few fast dc chargers while zoe will be able to charge in 1 hour from any public point, 30 mins once they are upgraded.

I know what you are saying about the loss of revenue on fuel, but as long as ice's are on the road, they will have much higher tax!

What I am saying is that about the revenue is that it will be recouped. You may find that, failing road pricing, the tax on the EVs jumps rather more than you might expect. Think about what is expected to happen on the tax for low emission cars.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Fair enough, Parker's car comparison gizmo for the UK reckons a second hand '09 Prius and Golf 140 have the same fixed costs, and the Prius saves on running costs (including £0 road tax in UK), but maybe priusses suffer worse depreciation here in Ireland.

Maybe they do suffer more depreciation, but that's all the better for the person that knows where true value is, and it's certainly not always Diesel that is value for money, 8 cent per litre difference and maybe, maybe 10 mpg that's not a lot if it costs 4-5 grand more to buy the diesel with higher mileage, where is the value in that ?

All that needs doing in the Prius is oil and filter, sparks when needed, simple and I've been giving it to Toyota, to service only because of the 8 year hybrid warranty but stuff that. I'll be doing it myself from now on as I did with the A4 for 100,000 miles, only I don't have cam belt in the Prius! Just changed the disks and pads a few weeks ago 110,000 kms, shouldn't have needed to but the previous owner must not have bothered to drive it properly because when I come back from a drive the disks are stone cold, should last a very long time now!

No starter motor, no alternator all done by the electric motors sandwiched between the engine and cvt, a/c is electric. The new prius is even simpler.

I do like it but I miss my old A4, I hope it's being looked after!

Joe 90

Joe 90 wrote: »

What I am saying is that about the revenue is that it will be recouped. You may find that, failing road pricing, the tax on the EVs jumps rather more than you might expect. Think about what is expected to happen on the tax for low emission cars.

The balance might shift, but what I'm saying is that the ice car will always be taxed higher and higher as Ireland has now failed to meet Kyoto, or is about to, so watch out, carbon credits are expensive! Muppets that signed us up to that should be shot in a country that has to import most of it's energy!

NIMAN

I have another question re EV's, I often hear about charging it using cheaper electricity at night.

Just checked my bill, I own have a single 24hr rate.

Do we have an option for night time electricity in this country?

beazee

NIMAN wrote: »

Just checked my bill, I own have a single 24hr rate.

Do we have an option for night time electricity in this country?

It will involve switching to dual tariff and having the meter replaced
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72427696

The dual meter has a higher standing charge, and a higher day rate, but I wouldn't let that put you off as the savings on going electric are huge, if buying a car of the same price compared to anything petrol or diesel.

You can always set the washing machine or clothes dryer to turn on at night and the immersion saying you more!

A diesel car that can do 50 mpg per tank that does 15,000 miles a year is costing around 2100 Euro's, 2100 Euro's will get you about 80,000-90,000 miles in Electric!!!

n900guy

ShadowHearth wrote: »

It is really weird. It is like you own the car, but you don't own part of it. I am not sure about second hand sales of this now.

Sounds strange but not that much different to e.g., you own a computer but don't own the OS - you have a license to use it.

reboot

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

While reading any EV thread on here, you would swear most people are completely against EV's. What I will say though is, since I started posting my experiences of EV ownership since April last year, I have received many private messages from people who are very interested in purchasing an EV, but not 100% sure yet.

This is just my opinion, but from talking to people in the street and on Boards, I would say there is a huge interest in owning EV's. There is an initial obstacle to overcome which is that the technology is new to the consumer and people just need a little reassurance and a little more information. This is what Renault are trying to do and I hope the succeed!

Couldn't agree more,I am amazed that people have not been told that,(Here in the North ) The electricity in the street is completely Free, so far I have 6000 miles up on my Zoe, a free home charger worth £1500,and No road tax. Where is the marketing guy for Renault? Well done Boards,what took you so long?

Sesshoumaru

Funnily enough I know the marketing department in Renault read Boards.ie. Sometimes I think though that they have given up on Ireland. I don't see any big effort from Renault to get people driving EV's here.

reboot

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Funnily enough I know the marketing department in Renault read Boards.ie. Sometimes I think though that they have given up on Ireland. I don't see any big effort from Renault to get people driving EV's here.

Yet if you look at irishevowners, hardly ever a mention of any other EV ownership than the Leaf? in the republic, They recently came North for a get together at Ikea,about 20 Leaf, I was the only Zoe? Far be it for me to say,but as others have mentioned at around about half the price,the Zoe is twice the car? At one time everyone bought the Model T!

reboot

NIMAN wrote: »

I have another question re EV's, I often hear about charging it using cheaper electricity at night.

Just checked my bill, I own have a single 24hr rate.

Do we have an option for night time electricity in this country?

Power NI do an economy 7 which is 8p/unit (KWhr) between 1am and 9am,then it reverts to about 17p,ESB must do something similar? Means the whole house ,washing mc,dishwasher etc is half price before 9 in the morning.

kdouglas

reboot wrote: »

Yet if you look at irishevowners, hardly ever a mention of any other EV ownership than the Leaf? in the republic, They recently came North for a get together at Ikea,about 20 Leaf, I was the only Zoe? Far be it for me to say,but as others have mentioned at around about half the price,the Zoe is twice the car? At one time everyone bought the Model T!

EV ownership in general is heavily biased towards the Leaf at the moment, it's the highest selling EV in the world and the most readily available.

The Zoe has been available in the North and UK for 6, maybe 12 months now? Still not available in Ireland. That doesn't mean the Leaf is the best, but give it a few years and you'll have the likes of the eGolf, eUp, Focus EV, i3, Zoe and more.

kdouglas

reboot wrote: »

Power NI do an economy 7 which is 8p/unit (KWhr) between 1am and 9am,then it reverts to about 17p,ESB must do something similar? Means the whole house ,washing mc,dishwasher etc is half price before 9 in the morning.

Yup, the rates vary, but I have the night rate meter, I think it's around 8c/unit at night and 20c/unit during the day. Standing charge is slightly higher too, but if you do any kind of reasonable mileage, it works out cheaper to go with the night rate meter for charging the car, and you get the added benefit that if you run your appliances at night, they are cheaper to run then too.

kdouglas

kdouglas wrote: »

That doesn't mean the Leaf is the best, but give it a few years and you'll have the likes of the eGolf, eUp, Focus EV, i3, Zoe and more.

Well the Leaf may very well be the best, All Euro electrics will not have ChaDeMo, and there are very few ccs chargers, you can't even find out this information on the e-cars map which is just simply ridiculous, you can't ever get the charger power for the standard chargers.

You can't get the information on the E-cars map if the charger is ChadeMo or CCS.

All you get is AC/DC.

E-car map is a joke.

The leaf is also cheaper than the E-golf.

The E-golf is smaller.

The Euro car makers should be made offer a ChaDeMo adapter.

Zoe is Small, underpowered and the 44 kw on board ac charger is fantastic, sure, but there are also very few fast a/c chargers, though it can charge in under an hour form the 22kw street chargers.

reboot

kdouglas wrote: »

EV ownership in general is heavily biased towards the Leaf at the moment, it's the highest selling EV in the world and the most readily available.

The Zoe has been available in the North and UK for 6, maybe 12 months now? Still not available in Ireland. That doesn't mean the Leaf is the best, but give it a few years and you'll have the likes of the eGolf, eUp, Focus EV, i3, Zoe and more.

Agreed,I got one of the first Zoe,and as posted,have it over a year now,at about half the Leaf price and twice as fast to charge(on AC),its a great buy,but the point I keep going back to is ,do we really need more and more Rapid chargers,(120Amp DC) at enormous expense,when as you rightly point out advances in EV and battery technology is not far away.These big chargers,Zoe doesn't need them,may look light Pink Elephants in a very short while.

reboot

reboot wrote: »

at about half the Leaf price and twice as fast to charge(on AC),its a great buy

The Zoe is 15.195 Ppunds V Leaf 18,490 EX battery. Not a big difference really. Considering the Leaf is a bigger car and more powerful.

You're still paying full price whether you lease the battery or not, though the lower lease plans can actually work out cheaper. + you're not paying interest on the full price of the car either.

reboot wrote: »

the point I keep going back to is ,do we really need more and more Rapid chargers,(120Amp DC) at enormous expense,when as you rightly point out advances in EV and battery technology is not far away.These big chargers,Zoe doesn't need them,may look light Pink Elephants in a very short while.

Yes we need hundreds more rapid chargers because there are already queues at some of the busier sites.

The future is DC you can't have a 130 KW + charger on board capable of such power. AC maybe great for most usage but on a run DC is King.

Now that Tesla have opened their patents we may finally have a proper infrastructure. Though I doubt we'll see a super charger in Ireland soon considering the state of our network.

As batteries get cheaper and we can put more Kwh in a car then our reliance on fast charging will not be as high but the need will still be there on long trips.

noelf

Deleted User wrote: »

The Zoe is 15.195 Ppunds V Leaf 18,490 EX battery. Not a big difference really. Considering the Leaf is a bigger car and more powerful.

You're still paying full price whether you lease the battery or not, though the lower lease plans can actually work out cheaper. + you're not paying interest on the full price of the car either.




Yes we need hundreds more rapid chargers because there are already queues at some of the busier sites.

The future is DC you can't have a 130 KW + charger on board capable of such power. AC maybe great for most usage but on a run DC is King.

Now that Tesla have opened their patents we may finally have a proper infrastructure. Though I doubt we'll see a super charger in Ireland soon considering the state of our network.

As batteries get cheaper and we can put more Kwh in a car then our reliance on fast charging will not be as high but the need will still be there on long trips.

according to this weeks Autocar 25 june page 27 tesla will have a supercharger network in ireland by the end of december 2015 .. belfast/dublin/cork and galway :pac:

noelf

noelf wrote: »

according to this weeks Autocar 25 june page 27 tesla will have a supercharger network in ireland by the end of december 2015 .. belfast/dublin/cork and galway :pac:

I read that there, thought they had no plans for Ireland.

Even if a leaf could use the super chargers it wouldn't make it from one to the other.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

The Zoe is 15.195 Ppunds V Leaf 18,490 EX battery. Not a big difference really. Considering the Leaf is a bigger car and more powerful.

You're still paying full price whether you lease the battery or not, though the lower lease plans can actually work out cheaper. + you're not paying interest on the full price of the car either.




Yes we need hundreds more rapid chargers because there are already queues at some of the busier sites.

The future is DC you can't have a 130 KW + charger on board capable of such power. AC maybe great for most usage but on a run DC is King.

Now that Tesla have opened their patents we may finally have a proper infrastructure. Though I doubt we'll see a super charger in Ireland soon considering the state of our network.

As batteries get cheaper and we can put more Kwh in a car then our reliance on fast charging will not be as high but the need will still be there on long trips.

Nikola is turning in his grave!