the stress of been fat!!!!

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Oh, by the way, I am fully aware of the New England MJ, who recently announced that 15% of cancer deaths were linked with being overweight!

I know what I'm talking about, believe me. Bariatrics is an area in which I do a heck of a lot more research that you do.

So, before you try to excuse being overweight, and try to condone that it is in any way at all healthy, get you facts right first and stop trying to sway the path of those who are trying to inform people of the REAL dangers of being overweight/obese.

Being overweight is never, EVER healthy.

Oh jeez, all the 'research' you've posted is opinion pieces on websites, and they all lump in people of BMI 26 with people of BMI 40 like they're one homogeneous group. No one is debating the health risks of having an obese amount of body fat. But carrying an extra bit of body fat when otherwise in good shape is not the alarmist issue you are trying to make of it.

If you're such a whiz at research (and I don't doubt that you are!), show me a study (actual) of people showing having a BMI of 26 is less healthy than someone of BMI 24.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Unfortunately, it is this sort of careless and callous attitude which has led to the overweight/obesity crisis that is becoming apparent in this country.

It is wrong for anyone to condone being an unhealthy weight and say that there is nothing wrong with it with regards to one's health.

It is a fatally mis-guided attitude.

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Oh jeez, all the 'research' you've posted is opinion pieces on websites, and they all lump in people of BMI 26 with people of BMI 40 like their one homogeneous group. No one is debating the health risks of having an obese amount of body fat. But carrying an extra bit of body fat when otherwise in good shape is not the alarmist issue you are trying to make of it.

If you're such a whiz at research (and I don't doubt that you are!), show me a study (actual) of people showing having a BMI of 26 is less healthy than someone of BMI 24.

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/Lifedeath.html

From a medical journal independently written by Oxford graduates.

Scroll down and you will see that as you go from a BMI of 20-24 to 28-30 the probability of death within 15 years increases.

I am still looking for proof, graphs included, that being overweight is healthy in the long-term.

While you're at it, find me a reputable research paper that says a BMI of 26 is healthier than a BMI of 24.

Gumbi

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Nobody said that. Stop being childish. Your ignorance astounds me.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Why must you bring sarcasm and hyperbole into a debate? It undermines your argument, which is weakening.

I am not looking to make people who are overweight or obese feel bad, simply trying to abolish your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

It is not, never was and never will be. I was overweight for quite some time and I decided to get off my backside and do something about it.

It was quite simple really, eat healthier and exercise. I am now at a perfect, HEALTHY weight and I have seen vast health improvements-physically and mentally.

So please, never say that I am trying to 'shame' overweight people. I know how it feels to be in their position.

However, making indefensible excuses is not what is best. Action is required, not excuses.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/Lifedeath.html

From a medical journal independently written by Oxford graduates.

Scroll down and you will see that as you go from a BMI of 20-24 to 26-28 the probability of death within 15 years increases.

I am still looking for proof, graphs included, that being overweight is healthy in the long-term.

While you're at it, find me a reputable research paper that says a BMI of 26 is healthier than a BMI of 24.

Did you actually read the paper? It says nothing of the sort. If you look at the table there is a tiny almost negligable difference in risk. 0.87 for 24-25.9 and 0.90 for 26-27.9. Oh and look, people with BMI 21 have a higher risk of death than people with BMI 29.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Why must you bring sarcasm and hyperbole into a debate? It undermines your argument, which is weakening.

Because it's fun.:)

Medicine333 wrote: »

I am not looking to make people who are overweight or obese feel bad, simply trying to abolish your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

It is not, never was and never will be.

And yet the data say that indeed as long as you are not obese it can be.. who to believe?:pac:

Do me a favour, never coach people to lose weight, you would be terrible at it.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Did you actually read the paper? It says nothing of the sort. If you look at the table there is a tiny almost negligable difference in risk. 0.87 for 24-25.9 and 0.90 for 26-27.9. Oh and look, people with BMI 21 have a higher risk of death than people with BMI 29.

Quote that out please, with the whole paragraph.

'Having a body mass index of 26 or higher increased the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. A body mass index of 26-27.9 increased the risk by 28%; the risk doubled with a body mass index of more than 30, compared with an index of 20-21.9 (relative risks 1.42 and 2.11, 95% confidence intervals 1.06 to 1.56, 95% confidence intervals 1.71 to 2.62).

All levels of exercise reduced the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. The optimum was a moderate level which reduced the risk by 40% (relative risk 0.60, 95% confidence interval 0.50 to 0.72).'

I'd say that is quite significant, wouldn't you?

You are trying to argue a point which is not viable.

A person who is a healthy weight has lower risks of disease etc. than someone who is overweight.

You still have not given me any proof to even remotely support your point.

You provided a graph, with no axes, from a blog page, with it unclear what it was even detailing.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Quote that out please, with the whole paragraph.

'Having a body mass index of 26 or higher increased the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. A body mass index of 26-27.9 increased the risk by 28%; the risk doubled with a body mass index of more than 30, compared with an index of 20-21.9 (relative risks 1.42 and 2.11, 95% confidence intervals 1.06 to 1.56, 95% confidence intervals 1.71 to 2.62).

All levels of exercise reduced the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. The optimum was a moderate level which reduced the risk by 40% (relative risk 0.60, 95% confidence interval 0.50 to 0.72).'

I'd say that is quite significant, wouldn't you?

You are trying to argue a point which is not viable.

A person who is a healthy weight has lower risks of disease etc. than someone who is overweight.

You still have not given me any proof to even remotely support your point.

You provided a graph, with no axes, from a blog page, with it unclear what it was even detailing.

You still haven't read the paper have you? You do realise the abstract is not the paper right? I posted a link to a paper up the page.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Because it's fun.:)




And yet the data say that indeed as long as you are not obese it can be.. who to believe?:pac:

Do me a favour, never coach people to lose weight, you would be terrible at it.

In comparison to you, I'd be a Jillian Michaels.

Are you serious? Here you are saying that it is healthy to be overweight, and me saying it's not, and then you have the absolute audacity to suggest I would be terrible at coaching overweight people to lose weight?!

The ridiculous arguments that you have come out with are pathetic, at best.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

You still haven't read the paper have you? You do realise the abstract is not the paper right? I posted a link to a paper up the page.

Yes, I have. Now quote the whole paragraph.

Oh, you mean your mathematically-incorrect graph?

Or, your link which 'says' it's healthier to be overweight than a healthy weight?

Orla K

Medicine333 wrote: »

This is a great insight into your immaturity and inherently puerile attitude.

2 words

pot, kettle...

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

In comparison to you, I'd be a Jillian Michaels.

Are you serious? Here you are saying that it is healthy to be overweight, and me saying it's not, and then you have the absolute audacity to suggest I would be terrible at coaching overweight people to lose weight?!

The ridiculous arguments that you have come out with are pathetic, at best.

The fact that you think Gillian Michaels is a good example says everything really.

I'm saying you can be overweight with an overweight BMI of less than 27 and be perfectly healthy. Saying otherwise is to ignore the evidence.

Medicine333 wrote: »

Yes, I have. Now quote the whole paragraph.

Oh, you mean your mathematically-incorrect graph?

Or, your link which 'says' it's healthier to be overweight than a healthy weight?

No, I mean the table, table 1 in the paper that you clearly haven't read. Seriously, I don't know why you're getting so upset about this, maybe low blood sugar?:pac:

Hanley

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Needless to say you haven't done any research in this area. I suggest you do and then come back to me.

...a disappointingly restrained reply

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

The fact that you think Gillian Michaels is a good example says everything really.

I'm saying you can be overweight with an overweight BMI of less than 27 and be perfectly healthy. Saying otherwise is to ignore the evidence.



No, I mean the table, table 1 in the paper that you clearly haven't read. Seriously, I don't know why you're getting so upset about this, maybe low blood sugar?:pac:

You have failed to produce any evidence of your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

You even resorted to immature comments like the above to mask the fact that your argument is flawed.


Being overweight is not healthy. A range of conditions stem from being above the healthy weight for your height and build, and as I said before, it is this mal-informed attitude like you have 'argued', that needs to change in this country if we are to find a solution to this crisis which is costing our country billions annually and causing people who are overweight many health problems, physically and psychologically.

whatsthedeal

There is no proof that obesity is the causal factor related to the many health implications in which doctors like to associate it. I am not trying to say that there are not health problems with obesity but there is not enough proof to blame fat as the main cause.

A report done by the Royal College of Physicians show that fat people have higher incidence of diabetes, gall-bladder disease, hypertension, arthritis, respiratory problems and cancer.

HOWEVER 'midly obese' middle aged people had the lowest mortality rates and also that there was a lower mortality rate in fat cancer patients towrads thinner patients. It is said that fat people have an incresed risk of developing osteo-arthritis, but arthritis is affected by weigth not caused by it.
It was also found that fatness alone is far less a factor in coronary heart disease than age, sex, blood pressure, smoking, life style and raised blood fats.
It is not fattness that causes these illnesses, it is fattness that takes the blame for them. A thin person dying of heart disease is a sad occasion, but a fat person dying of heart disease should have seen it coming?

The real health risk to fat people's health is in our attempts to lose weight!

It is the prejudice and harassment that sadly means that a lot of overweight people lose out on preventative healthcare because it is so difficult to find non-judgmental healthcare in this weight obsessed culture we live in!

Irish adults reported to be 37% overweight and 24% obese according to the National Adult Nutrition Survey earlier this year. The prevalance of obesity in adults ranging from the ages of 18 to 64 has increased significantly since 1990 with percentiles increasing from 8% to 26% in men and from 13% to 21% in women.

The simple fact that average body weights and 'obesity' prevalance have been increasing in Ireland at a time of increased weight loss attempts suggests that weight loss is not successful.!!

Maybe if there were less people with such small minded opinions, then people of all weights would be able to enjoy their lives without the low self esteem issues they have to deal with, without people like you @medicine333 maybe those who are overweight or even just body conscious could have the pleasure of going to the gym or for a swim without the fear of been judged and ridiculed!!

rocky

Deep down, you're not happy with yourself, and try to blame it on other people. There's no small minded opinions about fat people, only your projections.

Blame genetics for fatness.
Blame other people for mental anguish about your fatness.
Blame diets for being ineffective in losing weight.

I see a pattern here... are you responsible for anything at all in your life?

whatsthedeal

ha rocky I laugh so hard at all your comments, not that its any of your business or that I feel like I should have to explain myself to you, but I am not looking for excuses nor am I unhappy.
In fact I am quiet happy, I am a 21 year old student with my hole life ahead of me, I am a size 14 and rather comfortable with it to be honest. I am actually studying the sociology of the body in my final year at university and took particular interest in this subject. I posted in this forum simply to see what people thought of the idea of a non-judgmental environment to live in, clearly it would be you that would have the low self esteem issues then!!

rocky

whatsthedeal wrote: »

...clearly it would be you that would have the low self esteem issues then!!

Clearly we have a different understanding of what 'clearly' means...

puzzle factory

i like fat gurls

whatsthedeal

rocky wrote: »

Clearly we have a different understanding of what 'clearly' means...

Thankfully we have different understandings of a lot of things :rolleyes:

Hanley

Stop flirting you two

Medicine333

whatsthedeal wrote: »

There is no proof that obesity is the causal factor related to the many health implications in which doctors like to associate it. I am not trying to say that there are not health problems with obesity but there is not enough proof to blame fat as the main cause.OTE]

This is one of the most horribly mis-informed opinions I have seen in a long time. Are you seriously stating that being obese is not a health concern? Maybe you are not aware, but when you are obese, you are at a dangerously high risk for:

1) IR: Insulin resistance develops when the pancreas can no longer keep producing enough insulin to regulate the blood glucose level. Blood glucose levels rise, the person becomes hyperglycaemic, resulting in type 2 Diabetes.

2) Atheriosclerosis: IR is a scientifically proven to be a stage in the development or atheriosclerosis. This is the hardening of the arteries, reducing blood flow into and throughout your heart. This puts a huge strain on your heart, massively increases you risks for a heart attack, aortic dissection, stroke etc. It is a serious condition.

3) Type 2 Diabetes: This risk increases with the duration and degree of obesity. When you're obese, you are not eating the correct foods. You are eating too much and too unhealthily. This leads to type 2 Diabetes which needs to be controlled or serious complications do and will arise.

4) Hypertension: The vast majority of obese people have a high BP. This puts massive strain on the heart, which is already struggling to pump blood around the body. Yet another serious complication of obesity.

5) Stroke

6) Hypercholesterolemia

7) Heart attack: For every 2.2 pounds gained, a Finnish study has found that your increase in risk of a heart attack rises by 1%. Also, in patients who have had a second heart attack, obesity is linked to an increase risk in having a second heart attack.

8 ) Congestive heart failure

9) Gout

10) Sleep apnoea

11) Cancer: Obesity is being increasingly linked with breast cancer in post-menopausal women(this is because fat tissue is important in the production of oestrogen, and long-term exposure to high levels of oestrogen increase you risk of breast cancer significantly), as well as many other observational studies showing significant correlations between being overweight/obese and increased risk of rectum and prostrate cancer in men, cancer of gallbladder and uterus in women and colonic cancer in both men and women.

12) Gout

13) Osteoarthiritis

A report done by the Royal College of Physicians show that fat people have higher incidence of diabetes, gall-bladder disease, hypertension, arthritis, respiratory problems and cancer.

This is rather obvious and is weakening your flimsy argument.

HOWEVER 'midly obese' middle aged people had the lowest mortality rates and also that there was a lower mortality rate in fat cancer patients towrads thinner patients. It is said that fat people have an incresed risk of developing osteo-arthritis, but arthritis is affected by weigth not caused by it.
It was also found that fatness alone is far less a factor in coronary heart disease than age, sex, blood pressure, smoking, life style and raised blood fats.

Of course it is caused by excess weight, it's putting severe pressure on the body. If the person wasn't overweight or obese, they wouldn't be inflicted with degenerative arthiritis! You're proving my point again!

It is not fattness that causes these illnesses, it is fattness that takes the blame for them. A thin person dying of heart disease is a sad occasion, but a fat person dying of heart disease should have seen it coming?

So what causes them? Being overweight/obese means the person is not eating a healthy diet and not exercising enough. Excess weight, high glucose levels, high cholesterol all of this and so so much more contributes to these many conditions and illnesses and vastly increased health risks that they must deal with.

Your argument here is flawed again, and almost paradoxical.

The real health risk to fat people's health is in our attempts to lose weight!

If it's not done properly, yes there are risks. I have seen it myself.

However, the REAL risk to overweight/obese people's health is being overweight or obese. Make no mistake about that.

It is the prejudice and harassment that sadly means that a lot of overweight people lose out on preventative healthcare because it is so difficult to find non-judgmental healthcare in this weight obsessed culture we live in!

Are you serious? Non-judgemental healthcare? There is a multitude of facilities for people who are obese and overweight in this country. Doctors specialising in bariatrics, health nurses, weight agencies, organisations-and you come out and say that they can't find non-judgemental health services?!!

They make excuses, just like you are making there, for not doing something about their weight before it's too late, and with people like you who haven't the first clue what their talking about, these people will continue to be mis-informed and regard their lifestyle and diet as 'healthy.'
Irish adults reported to be 37% overweight and 24% obese according to the National Adult Nutrition Survey earlier this year. The prevalance of obesity in adults ranging from the ages of 18 to 64 has increased significantly since 1990 with percentiles increasing from 8% to 26% in men and from 13% to 21% in women.

The simple fact that average body weights and 'obesity' prevalance have been increasing in Ireland at a time of increased weight loss attempts suggests that weight loss is not successful.!!

So they should give up? Are you suggesting that?

Maybe if there were less people with such small minded opinions, then people of all weights would be able to enjoy their lives without the low self esteem issues they have to deal with, without people like you @medicine333 maybe those who are overweight or even just body conscious could have the pleasure of going to the gym or for a swim without the fear of been judged and ridiculed!!

I'm small-minded?!

My argument is such a simple one:

It is not healthy to be overweight or obese. It is not and never will be healthy.

Quite frankly, it worries me that there are people like you and El Dangeroso who believe that it is even healthier to be overweight than to be a healthy weight.

You are making excuses for people who need to make a change in their lifestyles.

Also, please refrain from saying that I discriminate against overweight or obese people. It is untrue and quite obviously a personal attack against me to hide the fallacies of your dwindling argument.

Oryx

maybe those who are overweight or even just body conscious could have the pleasure of going to the gym or for a swim without the fear of been judged and ridiculed!!

I also have a problem with such a sweeping statement. Could it be that those with a poor self image are projecting their own beliefs and thoughts onto how they imagine they are being regarded in the gym or pool? Cos to be honest, most people in training, simply don't care what anyone else is doing, or looks like.

kate.m

Just looking at some of the studies posted, isn't using bmi as an index to measure if someone's a healthy or unhealthy weight flawed?I thought it there was something to do with taking the body fat percentage/ bone density into account?

Think it was posed as a link in the nutrition 101/off topic thread here...

(just wondering! )

feelgoodinc27

People always go on and on about their rights but never their responsibilities, informing yourself about and making a real effort to enhance your health is probably the best action you can take improve your life and to improve this country's health service.

Why? Any decent doctor will tell you that preventative medicine is the best way forward. Imagine what our health service would be like if everyone didn't smoke, drank alcohol only in moderation, got a bit of regular exercise in and informed themselves on healthy eating.

So really what I'm saying is its not ok to be fat (as common sense will tell you that if your fat your probably unhealthy) because by not taking responsibility for your health you are having a negative impact not just on yourself but on society at large.

Medicine333

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

People always go on and on about their rights but never their responsibilities, informing yourself about and making a real effort to enhance your health is probably the best action you can take improve your life and to improve this country's health service.

Why? Any decent doctor will tell you that preventative medicine is the best way forward. Imagine what our health service would be like if everyone didn't smoke, drank alcohol only in moderation, got a bit of regular exercise in and informed themselves on healthy eating.

So really what I'm saying is its not ok to be fat (as common sense will tell you that if your fat your probably unhealthy) because by not taking responsibility for your health you are having a negative impact not just on yourself but on society at large.

Excellent post, and a very good point there in bold.

A lot of people who are overweight or obese make excuses rather than action about their weight, and that is not the way forward, both for their own well-being and society too.

rocky

kate.m wrote: »

Just looking at some of the studies posted, isn't using bmi as an index to measure if someone's a healthy or unhealthy weight flawed?I thought it there was something to do with taking the body fat percentage/ bone density into account?

Think it was posed as a link in the nutrition 101/off topic thread here...

(just wondering! )

IT's not flawed, just not extremely accurate in all cases. If you're a rugby player training heavily, you can ignore the BMI. If you have a BMI of 34 and are a couch potato, think again...

El_Dangeroso

Jesus christ the judgemental attitude of people is fecking hilarious.

There's still no evidence that carrying a little extra body fat is harmful if you are fit and eat healthy (and you can totally be overweight while eating healthy).

I mean what do you people actually want? For someone to lecture fat people on their weight? For fat people to be denied access to health services?

I work with people to train them to maintain a healthy weight and I have to say it's exactly these kinds of judgemental attitudes that keep people trapped in the low-selfesteem/comfort-eating cycle.

I hope to god none of my patients ever encounter the likes of ye. Fuking keyboard warriors..

Oryx

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jesus christ the judgemental attitude of people is fecking hilarious.

There's still no evidence that carrying a little extra body fat is harmful if you are fit and eat healthy (and you can totally be overweight while eating healthy).

I mean what do you people actually want? For someone to lecture fat people on their weight? For fat people to be denied access to health services?

I work with people to train them to maintain a healthy weight and I have to say it's exactly these kinds of judgemental attitudes that keep people trapped in the low-selfesteem/comfort-eating cycle.

I hope to god none of my patients ever encounter the likes of ye. Fuking keyboard warriors..

Judgemental how? See this is what Im missing here. Yes, youre being argued with over the health issues of being overweight, but judgemental attitudes? I dont see much evidence of that. Noone is saying negative stuff about overweight people, simply stating that the condition of being overweight is not the best for your health.

whatsthedeal

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jesus christ the judgemental attitude of people is fecking hilarious.

There's still no evidence that carrying a little extra body fat is harmful if you are fit and eat healthy (and you can totally be overweight while eating healthy).

I mean what do you people actually want? For someone to lecture fat people on their weight? For fat people to be denied access to health services?

I work with people to train them to maintain a healthy weight and I have to say it's exactly these kinds of judgemental attitudes that keep people trapped in the low-selfesteem/comfort-eating cycle.

I hope to god none of my patients ever encounter the likes of ye. Fuking keyboard warriors..

I could not agree more, well said

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jesus christ the judgemental attitude of people is fecking hilarious.

There's still no evidence that carrying a little extra body fat is harmful if you are fit and eat healthy (and you can totally be overweight while eating healthy).

I mean what do you people actually want? For someone to lecture fat people on their weight? For fat people to be denied access to health services?

I work with people to train them to maintain a healthy weight and I have to say it's exactly these kinds of judgemental attitudes that keep people trapped in the low-selfesteem/comfort-eating cycle.

I hope to god none of my patients ever encounter the likes of ye. Fuking keyboard warriors..

There are no judgmental attitudes here, only common sense.

You said being overweight is healthy and even healthier than being, paradoxically, a healthy weight.

Frighteningly, whatsthedeal said being obese encompasses no health risks.

Misinformation is a dangerous thing, and that's one thing ye are spreading around this thread.

It is never healthy to be overweight or obese.

whatsthedeal

Medicine333 wrote: »

Frighteningly, whatsthedeal said being obese encompasses no health risks.

could you please quote me on that??????:mad:

Medicine333

whatsthedeal wrote: »

There is no proof that obesity is the causal factor related to the many health implications in which doctors like to associate it.

Why don't you get me evidence on that from a medical journal?

whatsthedeal

whatsthedeal wrote: »

There is no proof that obesity is the causal factor related to the many health implications in which doctors like to associate it. I am not trying to say that there are not health problems with obesity but there is not enough proof to blame fat as the main cause.

please don't make it look like something it is not, here is the full quote of what i said and I most definitely do not see me saying that there is no health risks with obesity, in fact I say the opposite!!!

All of the health problems you named out in an earlier post happen to thin people too, there is no disease or health risk that concerns ONLY fat people. Therefore who can say that fattness causes these illnesses and that a person could not get heart disease regardless of their weight?

weight AFFECTS these health conditions it does not CAUSE them!!

Medicine333

whatsthedeal wrote: »

please don't make it look like something it is not, here is the full quote of what i said and I most definitely do not see me saying that there is no health risks with obesity, in fact I say the opposite!!!

All of the health problems you named out in an earlier post happen to thin people too, there is no disease or health risk that concerns ONLY fat people. Therefore who can say that fattness causes these illnesses and that a person could not get heart disease regardless of their weight?

weight AFFECTS these health conditions it does not CAUSE them!!

Being overweight or obese drastically increases the chances of acquiring these conditions. Don't make it out as if people who are a healthy, safe weight get them in the same number. You see, this is where you have a deficiency in medical knowledge and your bias is tripping up your argument.

Being overweight or obese does cause these conditions.

Also, the quote you have above shows that you think it is acceptable to be obese and not to have increased health risks because of it.




Show me proof right now that being overweight/obese does not cause any health risks, or increase them. Oh, and before you go off to a blogspot and get a half-drawn graph like El_Dangeroso did, you might actually want to find an article off reputable sites like I have done e.g. Harvard Medical College, New England Medical Journal and the NHS site.

Stop making excuses. You have a vested interest in this which is unhelpful to your objectivity too, unfortunately.

whatsthedeal

Medicine333 wrote: »

Show me proof right now that being overweight/obese does not cause any health risks, or increase them. Oh, and before you go off to a blogspot and get a half-drawn graph like El_Dangeroso did, you might actually want to find an article off reputable sites like I have done e.g. Harvard Medical College, New England Medical Journal and the NHS site.
.

First off do not tell me what to do "right now"!!! and secondly are you too stuck up your own back side to actually read what is been said, I have never said that obesity does not increase health risks.

And yes I am saying that it is not the cause of these health conditions, because there are many factors that need to be taking into consideration when finding the cause of someones health condition and weight is just one of many.

kleefarr

Eating bean curd would help to keep the been fat off I would think.

Medicine333

whatsthedeal wrote: »

First off do not tell me what to do "right now"!!! and secondly are you too stuck up your own back side to actually read what is been said, I have never said that obesity does not increase health risks.

And yes I am saying that it is not the cause of these health conditions, because there are many factors that need to be taking into consideration when finding the cause of someones health condition and weight is just one of many.

It is not just simply 'one of many.' It is the main cause in the vast majority of these cases.

If you don't feel the desire to link to medical journals, then it tells me a lot about your argument, to be honest. The fact is, you wouldn't be able to find anything to support your notion that being overweight is healthy and the same with obesity.

You didn't have the decency to even respond to my long post outlining the many conditions caused by being overweight or obese.

Your argument is simply wrong, I'm afraid.

You cannot be overweight or obese and healthy.

whatsthedeal

Yes you are right, you cant be overweight or obese and healthy, certainly not with people like you around!!

Medicine333

whatsthedeal wrote: »

Yes you are right, you cant be overweight or obese and healthy, certainly not with people like you around!!

That's the type of nonsensical argument you've been spouting out on this thread.

This is the recipe for a healthy weight:

Good, nutritious food with a well-balanced diet and exercise.

It is so simple.

Stop blaming people for being overweight or obese. People who are unhealthy in this way need to accept responsibility and stop making excuses like you're doing.

Oryx

whatsthedeal wrote: »

Yes you are right, you cant be overweight or obese and healthy, certainly not with people like you around!!

What do you even mean by that? Someone elses opinion doesn't affect your health. And please don't cite prejudice against you because of your weight. We don't even know your weight.

SBWife

Being fat should be stressful, it's bad for you, costs more in taxpayer funded healthcare and impinges on others space on public transport.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

There are no judgmental attitudes here, only common sense.

You said being overweight is healthy and even healthier than being, paradoxically, a healthy weight.

Frighteningly, whatsthedeal said being obese encompasses no health risks.

Misinformation is a dangerous thing, and that's one thing ye are spreading around this thread.

It is never healthy to be overweight or obese.

So it's not possible to be a size 14 and be healthy is that what your saying?

I'm saying the risks of being slightly overweight (BMI <27) are statistically not that high, in fact according to your paper (you know the one you didn't read), you have more risk of dying from being BMI 21 than BMI 26 when you are over 50. You keep ignoring this fact.

Gummy Panda

SBWife wrote: »

Being fat should be stressful, it's bad for you, costs more in taxpayer funded healthcare and impinges on others space on public transport.

How much more is it costing the taxpayer?

SBWife

Being overweight today not only signals increased risk of medical problems but also exposes people to serious psychosocial problems due mainly to widespread prejudice against fat people. Prejudice against obese people seems to border on the socially acceptable in Ireland. It crops up consistently in surveys covering groups such as employers, teachers, medical and healthcare personnel, and the media. It occurs among adolescents and children, even very young children.

Because obesity is associated with premature death, excessive morbidity and serious psychosocial problems the damage it causes to the welfare of citizens is extremely serious and for this reason government intervention is necessary and warranted. In economic terms, a figure of approximately €30million has been estimated for in-patient costs alone in 2003 for a number of Irish hospitals. This year about 2,000 premature deaths in Ireland will be attributed to obesity and the numbers are growing relentlessly. Diseases which proportionally more obese people suffer from than the general population include hypertension, type 2 diabetes, angina, heart attack and osteoarthritis. There are indirect costs also such as days lost to the workplace due to illness arising from obesity and output foregone as a result of premature death. Using the accepted EU environmental cost benefit method, these deaths alone may be costing the state as much as €4bn per year.

From the National Taskforce on Obesity Report published in 2005.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

So it's not possible to be a size 14 and be healthy is that what your saying?

I'm saying the risks of being slightly overweight (BMI <27) are statistically not that high, in fact according to your paper (you know the one you didn't read), you have more risk of dying from being BMI 21 than BMI 26 when you are over 50. You keep ignoring this fact.

No. Yet another inaccurate inference to try to make your dwindling argument not seem so pathetic. A size 14 on a 6 foot woman, for example, does that make her overweight? Unlikely. We're talking BMI here.


I did read that article. I posted an article from Harvard, you posted an unlabelled graph from a blogspot. The article stated that you are more at risk when you are overweight or obese than if you're a healthy weight.


Like I have said so many times, it is this sort of attitude where being overweight/obese is seen as not so bad in these people's eyes that they fail to do anything about it, that is responsible for the crisis our country is in right now with regards to obesity.

It is this 'Ah, shure it'll be grand, even if I'm overweight there's only a slight risk to my health' outlook, and people like you who haven't the first clue what they're talking about, that is contributing to this mess.

GummyPanda, the unhealthy weight of a huge portion of people in Ireland is costing the government an estimated €3 bn annually. Actually, it's costing us €3 bn annually. The extra costs are incurred from dealing with heart disease, heart attacks, diabetes, sleep apnoea and so so many other illnesses.

Medicine333

This thread has dragged on and on, with some people even stating that being overweight 'ain't bad for your health', and another saying that obesity is only a 'small factor' in conditions like sleep apnoea and diabetes.

It is time some people woke up to the facts and accept that being overweight or obese is harmful, physically and psychologically, and is costing Ireland billions annually.

Our country is a mere 10 years behind America in terms of its obesity crisis.

We do not need excuses, or the problem will deteriorate further. Action and acceptance of responsibility from those who are overweight/obese to change their lifestyles is the only way forward.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

No. Yet another inaccurate inference to try to make your dwindling argument not seem so pathetic. A size 14 on a 6 foot woman, for example, does that make her overweight? Unlikely. We're talking BMI here.

How many 6ft women do you know? My question was, and I don't think it should be too difficult to answer, it's a pretty direct question; Are all women who fall within 1 standard definition of mean height, about 5'3" to 5'9" (if you want specifics) unhealthy?

Medicine333 wrote: »

I did read that article. I posted an article from Harvard, you posted an unlabelled graph from a blogspot. The article stated that you are more at risk when you are overweight or obese than if you're a healthy weight.

You read an article, you didn't actually read the paper that the article is based on. You did not read the primary source which actually contradicts your point. Why do you keep evading the point that the paper that article references states clearly people of BMI 21 have a higher risk of dying than BMI of people with a BMI of even 29. You say you have done lots of research but considering that you don't even know the difference between an article and the actual paper leads me to believe you don't know what research actually means.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

How many 6ft women do you know? My question was, and I don't think it should be too difficult to answer, it's a pretty direct question; Are all women who fall within 1 standard definition of mean height, about 5'3" to 5'9" (if you want specifics) unhealthy?




You read an article, you didn't actually read the paper that the article is based on. You did not read the primary source which actually contradicts your point. Why do you keep evading the point that the paper that article references states clearly people of BMI 21 have a higher risk of dying than BMI of people with a BMI of even 29. You say you have done lots of research but considering that you don't even know the difference between an article and the actual paper leads me to believe you don't know what research actually means.

I asked you to quote that and you thus far have not.

Also, if you are over the recommended weight for your height and build, you are overweight/obese and that is not healthy.

Again, I quoted from a Harvard source, while you embarrassingly quoted an unlabelled graph and tried to tell me it was saying the being overweight is healthier than being a healthy weight!

I cannot believe that a supposed expert on fitness that you claim to be, is saying that being overweight is healthy.

If you don't back up your points, I am not going to even bother answering you because so far you have given out inaccurate information which is condoning unhealthy weights.