the stress of been fat!!!!

rocky

Zamboni wrote: »

It would be very harmful to increase the cost of calories that there is nothing inherently wrong with.
There are plenty of normal healthy people who could do without having a stupid fat tax on their mackerel, salmon, avacado, nuts etc. shopping bill.

Agree. What's next, a tax on insulin-stimulating food? That would be ... fun

Oryx

I do think that there would be no harm in having a sugar/fat tax.

There was a thread on this subject here before. Imo, it wont work. People will still eat food that tastes nice (the fat and sugar laden stuff). Why do I think that? Because people still smoke though its about 9 euro for 20 ciggies. People still shell out 3.65 for a cappucino. A small bag of crisps is a euro, and people still pay it and it's gone in two minutes. Because a bag of frozen chips and economy pizza and garlic bread is still going to be cheaper and handier for some than a made-from-scratch healthy meal.*

*yes I know it can be done on the cheap, but will people bother to learn how?

Gumbi

I cannot find myself agreeing with the OP. Collectively, society SHOULD be telling "the obese" that they should be healthier. The obese cost the taxpayer a lot of money. they are a danger to themselves and a burden to society. Why shouldn't we comment on that?

And, btw, OP, your conjecture regarding increased happiness etc leading to less obesity is absolute BS. Nothing more than a conjecture.

Gummy Panda

Can someone please post a source on how much obesity is causing the tax payer?

I see this line parroted around forums but no one has any proper sources

El_Dangeroso

I'm not a HAES advocate (bit too vain for that..) but there's actually very little health risks with being overweight over the long term. Obese, yes, overweight..not really.

<rant>Anyone who thinks shouting 'Stop eating you fatty fatty fat fat' at the obese will make them lose even one pound is deluded. Most obese people hear exactly that every day in their own internal monologue of self-hatred. Nice of everyone else to pile on though..

You can only motivate someone to change anything (be it lose weight, give up drinking, quit drugs etc) is to explore their own internal ambivalence and resolve it so that the motivation has a solid internal foundation rather than a thin one based external pressure (you know what's great for drowning out criticism from others? Biscuits.).

Basically the exact opposite of the judgemental shite spouted on this thread. </rant>

Hanley

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm not a HAES advocate (bit too vain for that..) but there's actually very little health risks with being overweight over the long term. Obese, yes, overweight..not really.

<rant>Anyone who thinks shouting 'Stop eating you fatty fatty fat fat' at the obese will make them lose even one pound is deluded. Most obese people hear exactly that every day in their own internal monologue of self-hatred. Nice of everyone else to pile on though..

You can only motivate someone to change anything (be it lose weight, give up drinking, quit drugs etc) is to explore their own internal ambivalence and resolve it so that the motivation has a solid internal foundation rather than a thin one based external pressure (you know what's great for drowning out criticism from others? Biscuits.).

Basically the exact opposite of the judgemental shite spouted on this thread. </rant>

Judging by this post, I'm glad I didn't read the rest. Well said.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I'm not a HAES advocate (bit too vain for that..) but there's actually very little health risks with being overweight over the long term. Obese, yes, overweight..not really.

<rant>Anyone who thinks shouting 'Stop eating you fatty fatty fat fat' at the obese will make them lose even one pound is deluded. Most obese people hear exactly that every day in their own internal monologue of self-hatred. Nice of everyone else to pile on though..

You can only motivate someone to change anything (be it lose weight, give up drinking, quit drugs etc) is to explore their own internal ambivalence and resolve it so that the motivation has a solid internal foundation rather than a thin one based external pressure (you know what's great for drowning out criticism from others? Biscuits.).

Basically the exact opposite of the judgemental shite spouted on this thread. </rant>

Would you like to fill me in with links to medical websites where they brand 'being overweight' as 'not unhealthy in the long-term' please?

Being over-weight is unhealthy. It raises BP, putting stress on the heart, there is a significantly-increased risk of heart disease, stroke, cancer, as well as the possibility of type 2 diabetes. I could go on and on.

I absolutely cannot stand when people say, 'You can be overweight and healthy.' Sorry, you can't. It's an impossibility.

Zagato

Most people who are obese, think they are just overweight, if that.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Would you like to fill me in with links to medical websites where they brand 'being overweight' as 'not unhealthy in the long-term' please?

Being over-weight is unhealthy. It raises BP, putting stress on the heart, there is a significantly-increased risk of heart disease, stroke, cancer, as well as the possibility of type 2 diabetes. I could go on and on.

I absolutely cannot stand when people say, 'You can be overweight and healthy.' Sorry, you can't. It's an impossibility.

Needless to say you haven't done any research in this area. I suggest you do and then come back to me.

Sappa

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Medicine333 wrote: »

Would you like to fill me in with links to medical websites where they brand 'being overweight' as 'not unhealthy in the long-term' please?

Being over-weight is unhealthy. It raises BP, putting stress on the heart, there is a significantly-increased risk of heart disease, stroke, cancer, as well as the possibility of type 2 diabetes. I could go on and on.

I absolutely cannot stand when people say, 'You can be overweight and healthy.' Sorry, you can't. It's an impossibility.

Needless to say you haven't done any research in this area. I suggest you do and then come back to me.

You have got to be kidding right.
Being over weight is a serious risk factor in all medicine333 mentioned.
You are obviously in denial or delusional.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Needless to say you haven't done any research in this area. I suggest you do and then come back to me.

Haha, perfect answer. Thank you for proving my point:)

El_Dangeroso

Sigh.

Look at this graph:

http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJM199910073411501&iid=f02

From this paper: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199910073411501

Mortality only starts significantly rising after BMI goes above 28, a relative risk of less than 1.2 is not worth writing home about. In fact the lowest risk of death from all other causes is snugly in the overweight category.

But don't let science get in the way of your prejudice.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Haha, perfect answer. Thank you for proving my point:)

Proving the point that you don't know what you're talking about? You're welcome!:)

El_Dangeroso

More fun graphs!

This time from men over 50, where the being in the lower end of the healthy BMI carries more risk than being overweight:

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Sigh.

Look at this graph:

http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJM199910073411501&iid=f02

From this paper: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199910073411501

Mortality only starts significantly rising after BMI goes above 28, a relative risk of less than 1.2 is not worth writing home about. In fact the lowest risk of death from all other causes is snugly in the overweight category.

But don't let science get in the way of your prejudice.

We're not talking just about mortality here. You said 'being overweight isn't unhealthy.' Well it is:


http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/health_risks.htm

^^Check that out


http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/Abdominal-fat-and-what-to-do-about-it.shtml

^^ That

http://ie.askmen.com/sports/health_150/160_mens_health.html

^^And if you're still not satisfied

Oh, by the way, I am fully aware of the New England MJ, who recently announced that 15% of cancer deaths were linked with being overweight!

I know what I'm talking about, believe me. Bariatrics is an area in which I do a heck of a lot more research that you do.

So, before you try to excuse being overweight, and try to condone that it is in any way at all healthy, get you facts right first and stop trying to sway the path of those who are trying to inform people of the REAL dangers of being overweight/obese.




Being overweight is never, EVER healthy.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Proving the point that you don't know what you're talking about? You're welcome!:)

This is a great insight into your immaturity and inherently puerile attitude.

Stop making excuses. Being overweight is not healthy!

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

More fun graphs!

This time from men over 50, where the being in the lower end of the healthy BMI carries more risk than being overweight:

Could we have the link to that site, please? I see it is a 'blogspot.' Why don't you find a webpage with just slightly more credibility.

The fact that the axes aren't labelled either is rather suspicious, don't you think?

rocky

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

there's actually very little health risks with being overweight over the long term.

Unfortunately, it is this sort of careless and callous attitude which has led to the overweight/obesity crisis that is becoming apparent in this country.

It is wrong for anyone to condone being an unhealthy weight and say that there is nothing wrong with it with regards to one's health.

It is a fatally mis-guided attitude.

Gumbi

Medicine333 wrote: »

Unfortunately, it is this sort of careless and callous attitude which has led to the overweight/obesity crisis that is becoming apparent in this country.

It is wrong for anyone to condone being an unhealthy weight and say that there is nothing wrong with it with regards to one's health.

It is a fatally mis-guided attitude.

I am genuinely surprised at the ignorance in this thread. That somebody would believe such a thing is, frankly, ridiculous.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Oh, by the way, I am fully aware of the New England MJ, who recently announced that 15% of cancer deaths were linked with being overweight!

I know what I'm talking about, believe me. Bariatrics is an area in which I do a heck of a lot more research that you do.

So, before you try to excuse being overweight, and try to condone that it is in any way at all healthy, get you facts right first and stop trying to sway the path of those who are trying to inform people of the REAL dangers of being overweight/obese.

Being overweight is never, EVER healthy.

Oh jeez, all the 'research' you've posted is opinion pieces on websites, and they all lump in people of BMI 26 with people of BMI 40 like they're one homogeneous group. No one is debating the health risks of having an obese amount of body fat. But carrying an extra bit of body fat when otherwise in good shape is not the alarmist issue you are trying to make of it.

If you're such a whiz at research (and I don't doubt that you are!), show me a study (actual) of people showing having a BMI of 26 is less healthy than someone of BMI 24.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Unfortunately, it is this sort of careless and callous attitude which has led to the overweight/obesity crisis that is becoming apparent in this country.

It is wrong for anyone to condone being an unhealthy weight and say that there is nothing wrong with it with regards to one's health.

It is a fatally mis-guided attitude.

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Oh jeez, all the 'research' you've posted is opinion pieces on websites, and they all lump in people of BMI 26 with people of BMI 40 like their one homogeneous group. No one is debating the health risks of having an obese amount of body fat. But carrying an extra bit of body fat when otherwise in good shape is not the alarmist issue you are trying to make of it.

If you're such a whiz at research (and I don't doubt that you are!), show me a study (actual) of people showing having a BMI of 26 is less healthy than someone of BMI 24.

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/Lifedeath.html

From a medical journal independently written by Oxford graduates.

Scroll down and you will see that as you go from a BMI of 20-24 to 28-30 the probability of death within 15 years increases.

I am still looking for proof, graphs included, that being overweight is healthy in the long-term.

While you're at it, find me a reputable research paper that says a BMI of 26 is healthier than a BMI of 24.

Gumbi

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Nobody said that. Stop being childish. Your ignorance astounds me.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes, you got me. I am responsible for the obesity epidemic.

In fact why don't we give fat people public shamings? Nothing motivates people more to put down the fork like humiliation, amiright?

Why must you bring sarcasm and hyperbole into a debate? It undermines your argument, which is weakening.

I am not looking to make people who are overweight or obese feel bad, simply trying to abolish your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

It is not, never was and never will be. I was overweight for quite some time and I decided to get off my backside and do something about it.

It was quite simple really, eat healthier and exercise. I am now at a perfect, HEALTHY weight and I have seen vast health improvements-physically and mentally.

So please, never say that I am trying to 'shame' overweight people. I know how it feels to be in their position.

However, making indefensible excuses is not what is best. Action is required, not excuses.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/Lifedeath.html

From a medical journal independently written by Oxford graduates.

Scroll down and you will see that as you go from a BMI of 20-24 to 26-28 the probability of death within 15 years increases.

I am still looking for proof, graphs included, that being overweight is healthy in the long-term.

While you're at it, find me a reputable research paper that says a BMI of 26 is healthier than a BMI of 24.

Did you actually read the paper? It says nothing of the sort. If you look at the table there is a tiny almost negligable difference in risk. 0.87 for 24-25.9 and 0.90 for 26-27.9. Oh and look, people with BMI 21 have a higher risk of death than people with BMI 29.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Why must you bring sarcasm and hyperbole into a debate? It undermines your argument, which is weakening.

Because it's fun.:)

Medicine333 wrote: »

I am not looking to make people who are overweight or obese feel bad, simply trying to abolish your opinion that being overweight is healthy.

It is not, never was and never will be.

And yet the data say that indeed as long as you are not obese it can be.. who to believe?:pac:

Do me a favour, never coach people to lose weight, you would be terrible at it.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Did you actually read the paper? It says nothing of the sort. If you look at the table there is a tiny almost negligable difference in risk. 0.87 for 24-25.9 and 0.90 for 26-27.9. Oh and look, people with BMI 21 have a higher risk of death than people with BMI 29.

Quote that out please, with the whole paragraph.

'Having a body mass index of 26 or higher increased the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. A body mass index of 26-27.9 increased the risk by 28%; the risk doubled with a body mass index of more than 30, compared with an index of 20-21.9 (relative risks 1.42 and 2.11, 95% confidence intervals 1.06 to 1.56, 95% confidence intervals 1.71 to 2.62).

All levels of exercise reduced the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. The optimum was a moderate level which reduced the risk by 40% (relative risk 0.60, 95% confidence interval 0.50 to 0.72).'

I'd say that is quite significant, wouldn't you?

You are trying to argue a point which is not viable.

A person who is a healthy weight has lower risks of disease etc. than someone who is overweight.

You still have not given me any proof to even remotely support your point.

You provided a graph, with no axes, from a blog page, with it unclear what it was even detailing.

El_Dangeroso

Medicine333 wrote: »

Quote that out please, with the whole paragraph.

'Having a body mass index of 26 or higher increased the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. A body mass index of 26-27.9 increased the risk by 28%; the risk doubled with a body mass index of more than 30, compared with an index of 20-21.9 (relative risks 1.42 and 2.11, 95% confidence intervals 1.06 to 1.56, 95% confidence intervals 1.71 to 2.62).

All levels of exercise reduced the risk of death or heart attack, stroke or diabetes. The optimum was a moderate level which reduced the risk by 40% (relative risk 0.60, 95% confidence interval 0.50 to 0.72).'

I'd say that is quite significant, wouldn't you?

You are trying to argue a point which is not viable.

A person who is a healthy weight has lower risks of disease etc. than someone who is overweight.

You still have not given me any proof to even remotely support your point.

You provided a graph, with no axes, from a blog page, with it unclear what it was even detailing.

You still haven't read the paper have you? You do realise the abstract is not the paper right? I posted a link to a paper up the page.

Medicine333

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Because it's fun.:)




And yet the data say that indeed as long as you are not obese it can be.. who to believe?:pac:

Do me a favour, never coach people to lose weight, you would be terrible at it.

In comparison to you, I'd be a Jillian Michaels.

Are you serious? Here you are saying that it is healthy to be overweight, and me saying it's not, and then you have the absolute audacity to suggest I would be terrible at coaching overweight people to lose weight?!

The ridiculous arguments that you have come out with are pathetic, at best.