Online list of prices

mylastparadigm

Im just wondering about the usefulness of listing all items that are for retail (in the country, from supermarkets, sports shops, hardware, tech stuff everything you see on the high street) online with price.

All retailers would be obliged to post all prices with item description, together with previous prices.

THe idea would be that you could click on branded fig rolls (for example) and you would immediately see who sells them the cheapest, who has them on offer, whatever.

You could plan out your shop, hitting the stores for the cheapest items. some people do all their shopping in one place but i think thats less common now.

keeping in mind that nothing would ever be achieved if all objections were first to be overcome, does anyone have any ideas about how this could work? would it make a difference to competition?

if a daily newspaper got onboard it would help publisise it.

RangeR

mylastparadigm wrote: »

Im just wondering about the usefulness of listing all items that are for retail (in the country, from supermarkets, sports shops, hardware, tech stuff everything you see on the high street) online with price.

All retailers would be obliged to post all prices with item description, together with previous prices.

THe idea would be that you could click on branded fig rolls (for example) and you would immediately see who sells them the cheapest, who has them on offer, whatever.

You could plan out your shop, hitting the stores for the cheapest items. some people do all their shopping in one place but i think thats less common now.

keeping in mind that nothing would ever be achieved if all objections were first to be overcome, does anyone have any ideas about how this could work? would it make a difference to competition?

if a daily newspaper got onboard it would help publisise it.

I doubt that you'd get the supermarkets to agree to sending their POS data to a third party.
Not a Consumer Issue.

Africa

RangeR wrote: »

I doubt that you'd get the supermarkets to agree to sending their POS data to a third party.
Not a Consumer Issue.

Agree with this unless it was updated manually by the third party. However, it could benefit the shops as well as it would be driving more business there way and they still are making money on their 'cheap' deals.

Something similar to bonkers.ie

Corruptedmorals

There are hundreds of price changes in supermarkets daily. They have a hard enough time changing SEL's and signage to reflect this. It would be a huge costly undertaking to update a website just for the supermarket prices alone before you even do the other aspects you mentioned. Would not be worth the effort involved. Prices are updated automatically usually just before the supermarket opens, so tills etc. will always scan right. If there was a way of sending this POS data to update the website automatically at the same time that would of course be far easier. But you'd be waiting a long long time before the likes of Tesco and Dunnes in particular would be willing to give up that information. Lidl and Aldi would probably be quite willing on the other hand to showcase how much cheaper they are, yet it would be much easier for them as the amount of price changes they have is only a tiny fraction of the others.

the groutch

never gonna happen, especialy not with Dunnes

Guy:Incognito

the groutch wrote: »

never gonna happen,

I dont see why it should either. Companies are and should be, free to do business as they see fit. If they dont want to publish their prices thats their choice. Customers are also free to go buy there or not.

mylastparadigm

RangeR wrote: »

I doubt that you'd get the supermarkets to agree to sending their POS data to a third party.
Not a Consumer Issue.

i would have thought competition between supermarkets was a consumer issue.



it would be benificial to all consumers to see the prices and reward those retailers who set the best prices.

the point of sale data is what you are looking for. not an observer updated site like pump.ie.

if the people wanted it, surely very simple legislation could oblige supermarkets to supply the data to a state body. set up a website like citizens information, with no ads, no bias, just facts and a way to see comparative prices clearly.

no skin off the retailers back at all. more information to the consumer. the cheapest store wins! they rattle on about being cheaper thaan each other all the time so i cant see why they would object. its not like the prices are a secret.

i think this would be a great idea and very benificial to many consumers who are planning their weekly shop. think mums looking for cheapest nappies without having to trawl the stores looking for them. take ten minutes at home to check it.

i dont know how much use it would be to lidl/aldi. to compare between brands is the point - products available in both stores. lidl/aldi do a lot of random brands that dont get sold in other major retailers.

but im also thinking things like runners, razors, video games, movies, cds.

has anyone got a positive contribution to make lads? or is everyone here a naysayer?

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I dont see why it should either. Companies are and should be, free to do business as they see fit. If they dont want to publish their prices thats their choice. Customers are also free to go buy there or not.

well, you dont see why because you lack foresight.

we already do it with pubs having to post prices outside the door.

no way should companies be free to do business as they see fit!!! :rolleyes: think ENRON, our own ANGLO, as the first things that come to mind.

mylastparadigm

the groutch wrote: »

never gonna happen, especialy not with Dunnes

never is a long time. have you anything better to ad? anything at all constructive?

Corruptedmorals

Everything about Dunnes is a secret. They do not publish profits, turnover or any accounts at all. That is one company that would never release information of this sort- it would show up how much cheaper discounters are, and would also show how devious the increases and special offers are. I doubt Tesco would leap on the bandwagon. Both are eager to show that they are cheaper on certain products and they have special offers x,y and z. They are not eager to show the amount of price increases, deviousness and strategic raising and lowering of prices on products 'new lower price!!'.

In theory it is a good idea. In practice it would probably be costly and full of problems, not least that none of the major supermarkets would divulge that information.

mylastparadigm

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Everything about Dunnes is a secret. They do not publish profits, turnover or any accounts at all. That is one company that would never release information of this sort- it would show up how much cheaper discounters are, and would also show how devious the increases and special offers are. I doubt Tesco would leap on the bandwagon. Both are eager to show that they are cheaper on certain products and they have special offers x,y and z. They are not eager to show the amount of price increases, deviousness and strategic raising and lowering of prices on products 'new lower price!!'.

In theory it is a good idea. In practice it would probably be costly and full of problems, not least that none of the major supermarkets would divulge that information.

but they sre subject to the law of the land like you or I. it would really have to be on a legislative basis. no third party would get a look in.

you've hit the nail on the head - free flow of this information (which is not a secret - just hard to track) would really encourage true competition, not just loss leaders and special offers that atke advantage of human psychology.

Guy:Incognito

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Everything about Dunnes is a secret. They do not publish profits, turnover or any accounts at all. .

So just like any private company then, they dont have to publish accounts. Whos business is it other than the owners? They dont have a duty to anyone but themsleves.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

well, you dont see why because you lack foresight..

I lack foresight because I dotn want to force companies to do unecessary things against their will? Theres no big public crisis that needs averting by making supermarkets put their prices online.

Why just retail by the way? why does every company that offers goods or services not get forced to do it?

mylastparadigm wrote: »

no way should companies be free to do business as they see fit!!! :rolleyes: think ENRON, our own ANGLO, as the first things that come to mind.

My appologies, I didnt realise this was a crazy rant. I'll take my leave.

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So just like any private company then, they dont have to publish accounts. Whos business is it other than the owners? They dont have a duty to anyone but themsleves.

Their prices are not a secret!

that they have a duty to no one but themselves is nonsense. there are hundreds of rules they must follow to be allowed retail. its not like dunnes stores is a sovernign territory! :rolleyes:

surely you dont need a public crysis before you act. foresight.

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

Their prices are not a secret!:

Who said they were? They put them right there on the shelf beside the products.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

that they have a duty to no one but themselves is nonsense. :

They are a private company out to make money , who have they a duty to exactly, other than themselves?

mylastparadigm wrote: »

surely you dont need a public crysis before you act. foresight.

What public crisis can come out of supermarkets not publishing the prices of all their goods on a website?

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Who said they were? They put them right there on the shelf beside the products.



They are a private company out to make money , who have they a duty to exactly, other than themselves?

we're taking about prices, not publication of profit and revenue.

there are a million and one things they have to do to be allowed to retail. so they have a pre existing duty to the state and the customer. this would be the slightest of additions.

in this day and age, asking anyone to put the price online of anything you are selling is not a big deal.

there is no public crysis. but every little helps. you dont think we could do with a little more competition? i wish i had your disposable income.

Corruptedmorals

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So just like any private company then, they dont have to publish accounts. Whos business is it other than the owners? They dont have a duty to anyone but themsleves.

They are private unlimited. Other private companies have to publish annual reports, not neccessarily online, but they can be accessed, sometimes with a fee I think. Tesco Ireland's turnover is available. Dunnes don't have to publish anything at all, private unlimited is very rare.

I'm not criticising them for that. They're perfectly entitled to do so. I am using it as an indication of how unlikely they are to ever divulge any information at all, especially their entire POS.

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

we're taking about prices, not publication of profit and revenue..

My original anwser was to corruptedmorals talking abou them not publishing profits and accounts etc. I was quite careful to quote him to avoid confusion.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

there are a million and one things they have to do to be allowed to retail. so they have a pre existing duty to the state and the customer. this would be the slightest of additions.

They have to conform to the laws to set up a business like tax etc. They are free to conduct their business as they see fit. Advertise what they want , sell at the prices they want and to do business with who they want.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

in this day and age, asking anyone to put the price online of anything you are selling is not a big deal.

And yet we dont force everyone to do it. It's their business. If a company wants to do no advertising whatsoever and rely soley on footfal from people for their business, thats their choice.

Who foots the cost of putting all the prices online? How many man hours would the likes of Tesco actually have to put in to this to keep every price up to date online for their thousands of products. What about the local shop? Who does it for him? Force him to hire another employee at an expense he might not be able to afford? Maybe he can do it at night instead of sleeping?

ejmaztec

If the likes of Dunnes, Tesco and SuperValu ever decided to compete with each other (I can hear them all laughing their heads off at that one), that would be the moment that they might all consider supplying information to a price comparison website, but they'd rather match prices, stick a few offers on the table each week (just to make out they're helping the poor shopper), and basically continue to screw us over where possible.

mathepac

I think the idea is a good one, brilliant in fact, but certain practicalities need to be overcome, e.g.

• Do not create yet another QUANGO staffed by more public servants - we can't afford what we have now
• A shop belonging to a multiple can't open if today's prices for that shop are not available and accurate
• As above, the cost of of non-compliance is a day''s trading (staying shut for 24 hours)
• Repeat offenders get hit with 2,4 8,16, 32 day's closure for repeat 'offences' in a calendar year
• The nonsense above about 'secrecy' is just that, nonsense. The multiples publish their retail prices on / in
  • receipts
  • advertising brochures
  • newspapers
  • shop-windows
  • shelves
  • the products themselves
  • etc

To ease the cost to the consumer, rather than have to have an internet connection, the onus will be on the multiples to have terminals outside their shops displaying all prices (theirs and their competitors). The geographic span of the pricing would be say 2 miles in urban areas or say 10 miles in the sticks (like me)

I think it's a great idea, totally consumer orientated, simple to implement (once someone picks up the tab) and it's not as if the multiples don't have the data, it's a matter of making them available.

If I can get the price of beans (Heinz) in the local multiples I can go to the cheapest and save.

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

My original anwser was to corruptedmorals talking abou them not publishing profits and accounts etc. I was quite careful to quote him to avoid confusion.

my bad.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They have to conform to the laws to set up a business like tax etc. They are free to conduct their business as they see fit. Advertise what they want , sell at the prices they want and to do business with who they want.

none of what i proposed interferes with that.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And yet we dont force everyone to do it. It's their business. If a company wants to do no advertising whatsoever and rely soley on footfal from people for their business, thats their choice.

Who foots the cost of putting all the prices online? How many man hours would the likes of Tesco actually have to put in to this to keep every price up to date online for their thousands of products. What about the local shop? Who does it for him? Force him to hire another employee at an expense he might not be able to afford? Maybe he can do it at night instead of sleeping?

i just dont see a huge cost in sending the data in the cash register to somewhere it can be collated and displayed. no work there as far as i can see. local shop is the same.

it is a tiny inconvience for the benefit to consumers and tranparency it allows.

maybe im guilty of not giving a **** about dunnes and tesco etc. i am guilty of seeing things from a consumer point of view alright.

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

i just dont see a huge cost in sending the data in the cash register to somewhere it can be collated and displayed. no work there as far as i can see. local shop is the same.

it is a tiny inconvience for the benefit to consumers and tranparency it allows.

maybe im guilty of not giving a **** about dunnes and tesco etc. i am guilty of seeing things from a consumer point of view alright.

Presumably you are familiar with the systems that the stores are running and home easy it would be for them to upload and keep the prices up to date on a daily basis?

The consumer has the choice to go and look at their prices any time they want. If a shop wants to make all their prices available online and feel it will bring in more customers, they are already free to do so.

And what of the sole trader I mentioned that you left out of the quote?

Also, again, why are you stopping at retail? Why not every company that offers any goods or services to anyone? Including whatever business you are in.

mylastparadigm

mathepac wrote: »

I think the idea is a good one, brilliant in fact, but certain practicalities need to be overcome, e.g.

• Do not create yet another QUANGO staffed by more public servants - we can't afford what we have now
• A shop belonging to a multiple can't open if today's prices for that shop are not available and accurate
• As above, the cost of of non-compliance is a day''s trading (staying shut for 24 hours)
• Repeat offenders get hit with 2,4 8,16, 32 day's closure for repeat 'offences' in a calendar year
• The nonsense above about 'secrecy' is just that, nonsense. The multiples publish their retail prices on / in
  • receipts
  • advertising brochures
  • newspapers
  • shop-windows
  • shelves
  • the products themselves
  • etc

To ease the cost to the consumer, rather than have to have an internet connection, the onus will be on the multiples to have terminals outside their shops displaying all prices (theirs and their competitors). The geographic of the pricing span would be say 2 miles in urban areas or say 10 miles in the sticks (like me)

I think it's a great idea, totally consumer orientated, simple to implement (once someone picks up the tab) and it's not as if the multiples don't have the data, it's a matter of making them available.

If I can get the price of beans (Heinz) in the local multiples I can go to the cheapest and save.

i agree 100%. phew, i thought i was alone in the dark there for a minute. :-)

i appreciate the critics though. better to be able to discuss an idea with opposition than none at all.

your idea about a terminal at the front porch is brilliant. it would make the multiples wary of the customer, for once.

laros

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/


Some thing like this one from the UK....????

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

your idea about a terminal at the front porch is brilliant. it would make the multiples wary of the customer, for once.

You see, your forcussing on large companies, who may or may not be willign and able to foot the bill for these things.The world is not made up soley of huge multimillion euro companies.

Superquinn nearly went under last year. What if the added cost of something like this had pushed them over the edge? Would that have been a good thing?

Does the small corner shop need the terminals? Or are we discriminating against the big companies?

Guy:Incognito

laros wrote: »

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/


Some thing like this one from the UK....????

Thats voluntary though is it not? And pretty much just colates data from the ones that already have online shopping I think.

I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue is forcing companies to participate in these things. and it being only forced on one sector (retail)

What mylastparadym wants included : in the country, from supermarkets, sports shops, hardware, tech stuff everything you see on the high street)

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Presumably you are familiar with the systems that the stores are running and home easy it would be for them to upload and keep the prices up to date on a daily basis?

presumably, in the high tech world we live in, its possible to do this very cheaply.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The consumer has the choice to go and look at their prices any time they want. If a shop wants to make all their prices available online and feel it will bring in more customers, they are already free to do so.

not true for me. i work all hours to pay the bills. if you have the hours to go compare in the different shops, yeah sure. this is a way of doing it a lot quicker. saves people time. increases competition. flow of information makes a more efficient free market.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And what of the sole trader I mentioned that you left out of the quote?.

i think i said the same would apply to the local retailer.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Also, again, why are you stopping at retail? Why not every company that offers any goods or services to anyone? Including whatever business you are in.

i would include any retailer that sells the exact same product as another retailer. supermarkets were an easy example. services are more subjective. i hope you are happy with my answers - im really looking at this from a holistic point of view if you can appreciate that. the rest is detail.

i'll level with you. it was just an idea i had. i havent thought of absolutely everything. like i said in my first post - if every objection was to be overcome first, nothing would ever be achieved. chill out.

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

presumably, in the high tech world we live in, its possible to do this very cheaply....

See it's easy to just say "presumably" when your not footing the bill and dotn know anything about each companies stock control and prices systems.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

not true for me. i work all hours to pay the bills. if you have the hours to go compare in the different shops, yeah sure. this is a way of doing it a lot quicker. saves people time. increases competition. flow of information makes a more efficient free market...

Companies having the ability to make choices about how they conduct their own business makes a more efficienbt free market. The more restrictions you put on them the less free it is.

mylastparadigm wrote: »

i think i said the same would apply to the local retailer..

I meant a reply to the ina and outs. Who covers his costs if he cant afford more staff and the hours to do this?

mylastparadigm wrote: »

i would include any retailer that sells the exact same product as another retailer. supermarkets were an easy example. services are more subjective. i hope you are happy with my answers - im really looking at this from a holistic point of view if you can appreciate that. the rest is detail.

Not really as it happens. Your discriminating against certain businesses and forcing extra costs on them

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

See it's easy to just say "presumably" when your not footing the bill and dotn know anything about each companies stock control and prices systems.







Companies having the ability to make choices about how they conduct their own business makes a more efficienbt free market. The more restrictions you put on them the less free it is.




I meant a reply to the ina and outs. Who covers his costs if he cant afford more staff and the hours to do this?




'm not as it happens. Your discriminating against certain businesses and forcing extra costs on the,

what advice do you have for me that could help this idea? give me something positive, please. you cant see this as all bad. come on, please. anything at all bar telling me to bin it. surely you can see some element of merit in this idea.

Guy:Incognito

mylastparadigm wrote: »

what advice do you have for me that could help this idea? give me something positive, please. you cant see this as all bad. come on, please. anything at all bar telling me to bin it. surely you can see some element of merit in this idea.

I dont agree with the idea at all. If companies want to publish their prices online thats their choice imo.

mylastparadigm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I dont agree with the idea at all. If companies want to publish their prices online thats their choice imo.

i really appreciate your contribution. thank you.

Africa

Innovation like this is important. Dont take the bad parts to heart, in fact its just a sharing of ideas as to the risks that could be posed. Im sure with some marketing and PR, you could get some supermarkets on board (think local shopkeepers) to combat the prices of the big boys. Its all about baiting them, and seeing who bites.

A work around it make it all open source; some system that people contribute to themselves. Im sure scripts can be run to alter e-newsletters from supermarkets to some kind of webform and then combined. On top of that, allow users to enter the deals themselves, and moderation of it by the people as well.