A surprise loser in the wind farms game - bats.

Chloe Pink

Macha wrote: »

And I would hope that most sane people wouldn't pay much heed to this sort of extremist viewpoint.

Well I guess for some, all the other issues relating to wind turbines outweigh their "benefits" and so one bat death, for them, is indeed one too many.

Macha

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Well I guess for some, all the other issues relating to wind turbines outweigh their "benefits" and so one bat death, for them, is indeed one too many.

I think the "logic" behind the extremist viewpoint was already quite clear from your original sentence. As I said, I hope people recognize how out of touch with reality someone would have to be to believe such nonsense.

joela

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Joela,

Although your later posts are more helpful than your early ones, in an appeal process (or whatever the Irish equivalent) the fact that you contradict your early statements e.g. 2nd post, no.25 "Bats are also less of an issue in Ireland as we have less species than the rest of Europe and we do not host species which are known to migrate." and post no.41 "Irish bats do not have similar large scale migrations during the year but they do migrate within the country just not the same distances or scale as those on mainland Europe & US." and the fact that you make no mention of the international importance of Ireland as a stronghold for the Leislers bat etc would possibly do your case no favours.
Hopefully though, it would be seen as an attempt to downplay the situation and could therefore count against wind turbine development.

However, if I was a bat I would want those representing me to come clean with important facts and would certainly not want those facts to have to be extracted through cross questioning.

Also pertinent (certainly in the UK), is that the initial decision makers on wind turbine proposals do not have direct access to witnesses and so have to rely on written submissions; in such a scenario an early or summary statement in the written evidence such as "Bats are also less of an issue in Ireland as we have less species than the rest of Europe and we do not host species which are known to migrate." could be highly misleading especially as initial decision makers do not necessarily have the resource to plough through the greater detail of a case.

I realise this is not an appeal or a submission for a wind turbine planning application but a thread on one of the largest forums in Ireland; all the same the presentation of information is important.

I also know its a difficult situation, we want our best bat specialists to work with the wind developers but there are cases where the wind developers won't employ certain specialists because they don't quite say what they want them to.

I do acknowledge and appreciate that you write "Turbines & their interactions with bats are of course of potential concern, I most certainly don't want to see vast numbers of bat deaths as a result of inappropriate wind farm siting."

For some, even one bat death as a result of a wind turbine is one too many.

Chloe, as I said before it is obvious you have an agenda here which is not about bats or science but rather an extreme and incorrect understanding of bats and also wind farms. I don't appreciate your hectoring and patronising manner and will be reporting your recent post for same. I find your comment re this being one of the largest forums in Ireland and presenting information properly absolutely hilarious as I have repeatedly called you out on the incorrect statments and so called facts you have been presenting.

As for your comment regarding the death of a single bat *sighs*, do you know how many bats get hit on motorways and roads every night? Do you have any idea the number of people who illegally kill bats or destroy roosts? How about habitat loss, loss of hedgerows, mature trees etc.? if I were you I would be far more worried about the overall biodiversity lost due to farming practices, one off housing, inappropriately sited developments etc. and the impacts on bats.

Chloe Pink

Joela,
I think I've made my point quite clearly.
Re other bat deaths, yes bats have a really hard time, that's why they're protected. What a great idea to add further obstacles into the equation.

Chloe Pink

Macha wrote: »

I think the "logic" behind the extremist viewpoint was already quite clear from your original sentence. As I said, I hope people recognize how out of touch with reality someone would have to be to believe such nonsense.

Nearly as much nonsense as "Bats are also less of an issue in Ireland as we have less species than the rest of Europe and we do not host species which are known to migrate."

Macha

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Nearly as much nonsense as "Bats are also less of an issue in Ireland as we have less species than the rest of Europe and we do not host species which are known to migrate."

No. What you wrote is utter nonsense. There is no energy source that has zero impact on the environment. To believe that an energy technology would have to prove such a thing before it is pursused, would leave us all lighting our homes with candles. It's nonsense and has no place in a balanced debate of energy policy and environmental protection.

God, this thread is depressing.

Chloe Pink

Macha wrote: »

There is no energy source that has zero impact on the environment. To believe that an energy technology would have to prove such a thing before it is pursused, would leave us all lighting our homes with candles.

That was not what I was suggesting or the context in which the only comment you've chosen to pick upon was put which was "Well I guess for some, all the other issues relating to wind turbines outweigh their "benefits" and so one bat death, for them, is indeed one too many."
As I said to Joela, I really think I've made my point in my posts nos. 48 and 50.

Macha

Chloe Pink wrote: »

That was not what I was suggesting or the context in which the only comment you've chosen to pick upon was put which was "Well I guess for some, all the other issues relating to wind turbines outweigh their "benefits" and so one bat death, for them, is indeed one too many."

It is pretty clear it was what you were suggesting with the above sentence. I can pick up on anything you post - that's the the point of Boards. Don't write something if you can't defend it.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

As I said to Joela, I really think I've made my point in my posts nos. 48 and 50.

Good for you.

djpbarry

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Re rarity, see my previous links and: http://www.arkive.org/leislers-bat/nyctalus-leisleri/#text=Range
"Leisler's bat occurs in England and Wales, but is absent from Scotland. In Europe, although populations are fragmented, it has a wide distribution (5), but is found mainly in the south (7). The species is fairly rare in most European countries (2) except Ireland, where it is widespread and common (7)."

And from your link:
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/14919/0:
Population:
"It is widespread although patchily distributed in Europe. Common in parts of range (e.g., Ireland), scarce in other parts (Stebbings and Griffith 1986)."

I’m really not interested in arguing semantics. The bat in question is widespread – the fact that it is rare in certain locals does not mean it is in any way scarce on a global scale.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Also note that's as of 26 years ago
Habitat and Ecology:
"Females migrate over distances up to 1,567 km"
A contradiction to Joela's claim in post 25 that "Bats are also less of an issue in Ireland as we have less species than the rest of Europe and we do not host species which are known to migrate."

Sure, if you quote selectively and ignore the rest of Joela’s post, then yes, you’ve found a contradiction. Well done.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

I agree it's not "endangered"...

Great.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

...in terms of the categories used at the link you provide but it is on the "Red List" and categorised for "extinction risk" all be it under the category of "least concern".

The Leisler's bat shares the same categorisation (“least concern”) as the rock pigeon and the common house mouse – I don’t think there’s any risk of the latter two species becoming endangered any time soon.

This thread is getting ridiculous.

Chloe Pink

djpbarry wrote: »

This thread is getting ridiculous.

I agree but we are talking wind development so what else can be expected. I've made my points for anyone who can read so you guys can post away.
But let's not forget amongst all these words that Ireland is the stronghold for the otherwise rare (all be it wide spread) Leislers bat and so is of international importance.

Capt'n Midnight

Chloe Pink wrote: »

I agree but we are talking wind development so what else can be expected. I've made my points for anyone who can read so you guys can post away.
But let's not forget amongst all these words that Ireland is the stronghold for the otherwise rare (all be it wide spread) Leislers bat and so is of international importance.

Yawn

Competition from introduced species / loss of habitat is the key factor for the demise of most species.

cba reading the whole thread


Yes it is true that bats have been killed by flying into F117 stealth aircraft, but I'm guessing cats are far worse.

Note you can pretty much ignore US stats. Their bat colonies are bigger than ours. That Texas colony of 40 million bats would have about 8 million bat deaths a year given a life expectancy of 5 years.




Serious question.

Are they Catholic or Protestant bats ?