Entering a property if a tenant is in arrears and is dodging all communication?

windrock

The tenant in my house is in rent arrears for over a month and for over a week now has been actively avoiding any attempts to contact them.

How long do i have to wait with all attempts to get permission to enter the house being ignored before I can enter without having gained permission?

The lease agreement only states

3.11 That the Landlord, or person authorised by the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent, may at reasonable times, on giving reasonable notice (unless in the case of emergency) enter the property for the purpose of viewing, inspecting its condition and state of repair, or for the purpose of repair, maintenance or repainting.

What is reasonable notice if a tenant refuses to communicate with you?
I'm expecting to have to bring the tenant to court so need to do everything legitimately.

ProudDUB

If they are already in arrears, you can send a Registered letter to the tenant requesting that arrears be paid within 14 days of their receipt of the letter. Phone calls, texts, emails etc to not count as a sufficient means of notice.

If the arrears amount is not received, then send them a Notice of Termination of Tenancy.

If after 28 days, the arrears amt has still not been paid, eviction proceedings can proceed.

You still need to follow official procedure re evictions. Unfortunately this means that you can not just charge in there, kick them out and change the locks. If you are registered with the PRTB, they will be involved in getting a judgement against the tenant. Getting a hearing with them can take months. It is not case of you calling them up and being asked to pop in the next day. So don't delay on your end in getting the ball rolling on this.

Pkiernan

If you go this route, please post back with updates if you don't mind - and good luck!

odds_on

ProudDUB wrote: »

If they are already in arrears, you can send a Registered letter to the tenant requesting that arrears be paid within 14 days of their receipt of the letter. Phone calls, texts, emails etc to not count as a sufficient means of notice.

If the arrears amount is not received, then send them a Notice of Termination of Tenancy.

If after 28 days, the arrears amt has still not been paid, eviction proceedings can proceed.

You still need to follow official procedure re evictions. Unfortunately this means that you can not just charge in there, kick them out and change the locks. If you are registered with the PRTB, they will be involved in getting a judgement against the tenant. Getting a hearing with them can take months. It is not case of you calling them up and being asked to pop in the next day. So don't delay on your end in getting the ball rolling on this.

Make sure that any notices are valid and contain all the relevant information as set out in the RTA 2004. There are examples of both (with notes) on the PRTB web site. Issuing an invalid notice and acting on it (although you believed it to be valid) could cost you heavily in damages against you.

Also, by calling to the property you may be in breach of the law, for harassment and/or disruption of the tenant's "peaceful enjoyment" that he is entitled to under the law and again, it could cost you in damages awarded to the tenant (even though the tenant is in arrears) several thousands of euros.

Make all communication in writing (dated and with proof of posting or delivery at the address, witness etc.) addressed to the tenant at the property as this leaves a paper trail and proof of your communication should there be a claim with the PRTB by either party.

Milk & Honey

windrock wrote: »

The tenant in my house is in rent arrears for over a month and for over a week now has been actively avoiding any attempts to contact them.

How long do i have to wait with all attempts to get permission to enter the house being ignored before I can enter without having gained permission?

The lease agreement only states



What is reasonable notice if a tenant refuses to communicate with you?
I'm expecting to have to bring the tenant to court so need to do everything legitimately.

You can leave a notice at the house that you will be entering for the purposes of inspection in about 3 three days.

djimi

Milk & Honey wrote: »

You can leave a notice at the house that you will be entering for the purposes of inspection in about 3 three days.

You can contact the tenant and try and arrange a suitable time for an inspection, but if they do not get back to you it does not give you the right to just walk in.

Regardless of what the circumstances (short of an emergency situation such as flooding, gas leak, medical emergency etc) any unauthorized entry into the property is considered to be tresspassing.

Marcusm

djimi wrote: »

You can contact the tenant and try and arrange a suitable time for an inspection, but if they do not get back to you it does not give you the right to just walk in.

Regardless of what the circumstances (short of an emergency situation such as flooding, gas leak, medical emergency etc) any unauthorized entry into the property is considered to be tresspassing.

Would you like to cite authority? If the lease permits "entry" for the purposes of inspection with reasonable notice, this by definition does not impinge on the lessee's quiet enjoyment of the premises and cannot be considered a trespass; it is a retained right of a superior interest holder.

Kosseegan

ProudDUB wrote: »

If they are already in arrears, you can send a Registered letter to the tenant requesting that arrears be paid within 14 days of their receipt of the letter. Phone calls, texts, emails etc to not count as a sufficient means of notice.

If the arrears amount is not received, then send them a Notice of Termination of Tenancy.

If after 28 days, the arrears amt has still not been paid, eviction proceedings can proceed.

What if it is a Part 4 tenancy?

windrock

Thanks for all the good advice. A dispute is already logged with the PRTB. A written notice of arrears citing the 14 days was dropped into the premises a few days ago and so far there has been no reply.

The tenancy is not a part 4 and so far has been for less than 6 months which to my understanding means we can terminate the tenancy with 28 days notice for no reason at all?

Marcusm wrote:

djimi wrote:

You can contact the tenant and try and arrange a suitable time for an inspection, but if they do not get back to you it does not give you the right to just walk in.

Regardless of what the circumstances (short of an emergency situation such as flooding, gas leak, medical emergency etc) any unauthorized entry into the property is considered to be tresspassing.

Would you like to cite authority? If the lease permits "entry" for the purposes of inspection with reasonable notice, this by definition does not impinge on the lessee's quiet enjoyment of the premises and cannot be considered a trespass; it is a retained right of a superior interest holder.

I really do need an authoritive answer on this. Milk & Honey's answer of 3 days written notice seems reasonable perhaps even excessively so but I really do need to make sure I'm covered on this.

I actually suspect that the tenant has moved on, I'm just anxious to get a look at the place to make sure I haven't been cleaned out.

odds_on

windrock wrote: »

Thanks for all the good advice. A dispute is already logged with the PRTB. A written notice of arrears citing the 14 days was dropped into the premises a few days ago and so far there has been no reply.

The tenancy is not a part 4 and so far has been for less than 6 months which to my understanding means we can terminate the tenancy with 28 days notice for no reason at all?

I really do need an authoritive answer on this. Milk & Honey's answer of 3 days written notice seems reasonable perhaps even excessively so but I really do need to make sure I'm covered on this.

I actually suspect that the tenant has moved on, I'm just anxious to get a look at the place to make sure I haven't been cleaned out.

The termination giving no reason applies to Part 4 tenancies and not to fixed term leases.

Basically, a fixed term lease can only be broken if the tenant has breached his obligations (and usually where the landlord incurs a loss*). Rent arrears is a financial loss so a fixed term lease can be broken but only by following the correct procedures. Before any eviction of a tenant can happen, the tenant must be given a chance to remedy the breach (usually 14 days is reasonable time). Serious anti-social behaviour is one exception where the tenant can be given 7 days to vacate.

* Breach of lease conditions such as no smoking in the property will not usually be deemed by the PRTB to be a reason for eviction as the landlord is not immediately at a financial loss.

djimi

Marcusm wrote: »

Would you like to cite authority? If the lease permits "entry" for the purposes of inspection with reasonable notice, this by definition does not impinge on the lessee's quiet enjoyment of the premises and cannot be considered a trespass; it is a retained right of a superior interest holder.

The lease can say anything it wants; the simple fact is that it is considered to be tresspassing if the landlord enters the property at any time without the tenants expressed permission. A landlord is fully entitled to arrange an inspection with a tenant, provided adequate notice is given, but they are not entitled to tell the tenant that in three days they will be barging in to have a look around.

hohojojo

well my suggestion is to ask one of the neighbours have they seen your tenent and if not just go in and if the tenent is still there say that you got a a call you say that someone dodgy looked like they were trying to break in and you just wanted to make sure the house and your tenent were alright as you couldn't get through to them or you could but i wouldn't do it myself resort to calling the gaurds yourself and put in an anonymous complaint and just tell them you don't want to get invovled and they should check it out it wouldn't be long before you'd get a call obviously don't use your own phone.

if you know any of the neighbours well i think they could help even just to say they were the one that called.

i hate this type of stuff it really does go overboard with protect the tenent as if you can't get a hold of your tenent this shouldn't be an issue.

and with all the protection for the tenent were is the protection for the landlord.

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

The lease can say anything it wants; the simple fact is that it is considered to be tresspassing if the landlord enters the property at any time without the tenants expressed permission. A landlord is fully entitled to arrange an inspection with a tenant, provided adequate notice is given, but they are not entitled to tell the tenant that in three days they will be barging in to have a look around.

I am not sure that trespass is the correct designation of the event. Can one trespass on one's own property, even if it is leased/rented to a tenant who uses the dwelling as his home but it is not his property. It would seem more like depriving the tenant of his peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the property for which he has a lease, or harassment.

As far as I know, the PRTB only has about three cases of trespass in their adjudications and none of them actually refer to this type of action by the landlord.

maximoose

hohojojo wrote: »

well my suggestion is to ask one of the neighbours have they seen your tenent and if not just go in and if the tenent is still there say that you got a a call you say that someone dodgy looked like they were trying to break in and you just wanted to make sure the house and your tenent were alright as you couldn't get through to them or you could but i wouldn't do it myself resort to calling the gaurds yourself and put in an anonymous complaint and just tell them you don't want to get invovled and they should check it out it wouldn't be long before you'd get a call obviously don't use your own phone.

if you know any of the neighbours well i think they could help even just to say they were the one that called.

i hate this type of stuff it really does go overboard with protect the tenent as if you can't get a hold of your tenent this shouldn't be an issue.

and with all the protection for the tenent were is the protection for the landlord.

Given the ridiculous 'advice' you are giving in your first paragraph it's no wonder tenants are protected so much.

Marcusm

djimi wrote: »

The lease can say anything it wants; the simple fact is that it is considered to be tresspassing if the landlord enters the property at any time without the tenants expressed permission. A landlord is fully entitled to arrange an inspection with a tenant, provided adequate notice is given, but they are not entitled to tell the tenant that in three days they will be barging in to have a look around.

Utter rubbish; unless the terms of the lease seek to restrict the tenant's rights otherwise available under the law, the lease is paramount, after all it is the document freely entered into by the tenant without which he woud have no right to be in the roperty whatsoever. 3 days is liely to be regarded as adequate notice, in the past 24 hours has regularly been accepted. The landlord has no right to disrupt the tenant's occupation of the premises but absolutely has the right to inspect.

riclad

THERES very specific rules,re if you wanna give notice,go to court re eviction,
You have to follow em carefully ,4 weeks notice,etc,some times tenants just leave a property ,to avoid paying rent,or go on holiday without telling the landlord.
Unfortunately if you give notice, and go to court ,it maybe sometime be4 you get paid any rent.

djimi

Marcusm wrote: »

Utter rubbish; unless the terms of the lease seek to restrict the tenant's rights otherwise available under the law, the lease is paramount, after all it is the document freely entered into by the tenant without which he woud have no right to be in the roperty whatsoever. 3 days is liely to be regarded as adequate notice, in the past 24 hours has regularly been accepted. The landlord has no right to disrupt the tenant's occupation of the premises but absolutely has the right to inspect.

Im not suggesting that the landlord doesnt have the right to inspect; what I am saying is that they cannot just inform the tenant that they will be doing so at a specified time and then let themselves in to the property without the tenants consent.

If the tenant repeatedly refuses permission to allow an inspection then the landlord could see that as a breach of lease and follow that route against the tenant, but it still wouldnt allow them to enter the property against the tenants wishes!

And there is no need for the patronizing tone of your reply either; if you dont agree with what I say then kindly reply without having to resort to using insult.

Meshel

I am by no means an expert in this area but have been following this thread since it started. I am only posting this as I personally know the person it happened too. Sorry in advance for the long winded story
So my cousin was renting a house for over a year and had never once had a problem or complaint & there had been two or three inspections and LL was more than happy with the condition house had been kept in.
So my cousin was on holidays in Brazil with her boyfriend had set up a direct debit so rent would still be paid on time in the usual manner into LL bank a/c. She was going on a three week holiday and left last day of the month and rent was due next day. She thought no more about it and off she went on holidays.
By sheer coincidence her laser card was skimmed that very day so there was no money in her a/c and of course her DD came back as unpaid. But with her being on holidays she had cash and CC with her there was no reason for her to check her bank a/c while away on holidays. She had also not brought her mobile as it was a backpacking holiday and didn't see the need to.
So she arrives home from her holiday to find she can't get in as the key doesn't fit in the lock. Luckily her mam lives five mins down the road and she had picked her up from the airport so was able to stay with her for the night.
It transpired the LL had called her for a week with no reply regarding the rent not being paid. When after the second week he got no answer he took it upon himself to let himself into the house and got a locksmith to change the two locks :eek:
Luckily he hadn't done anything to her belongs or anything like that but it was still a shocking ordeal to come home to.
Needless to say he gave her six months rent free as compensation.
My point being an emergency can happen and yes it may seem like there can be no plausible excuse but if I was a LL I would think twice before just entering the house without the tenants permission.
Anyway from what I can gather the OP is doing all this by the books as it should be but just on the off chance could this be a similar case here???

ProudDUB

windrock wrote: »

A written notice of arrears citing the 14 days was dropped into the premises a few days ago and so far there has been no reply.

What do you mean by "dropped into the premises?"

Did you go over there yourself and put a letter thru the letterbox? Or did you have An Post deliver a registered letter to them that you have a proof of delivery receipt for?

If you did the former, you have no verifiable proof that you are abiding by the 14 day/28 day time frames. If it came down to it, it is just your word against his. I'd still send him something that you get an An Post receipt for. It isn't expensive and is certifiable proof that you are playing by the rules.

These chancers may very well have taken off, and you'll never here or see from them ever again. But what if they pop up later, and decide to fight you getting a PRTB judgement against them? If they spin some sob story about you not giving them adequate notice, wouldn't it be great to the have the proof that you did?

riclad

YOU can send them a letter by registered post,photograph it, the letter,the envelope,get receipt.
Remember keep records of everything you do,you might need to state in court everything you did re this tenant,there is a detailed procedure ,
re giving notice to a tenant ,as a landlord you have to follow it ,the law
is slanted as to protect the tenants rights.
LIKE any system an unscrupulous person can take advantage of it.
AND depending on how long the tenant is staying there, theres different rules re notice to quit.
shops have shoplifters, landlords have dishonest tenants.

odds_on

riclad wrote: »

THERES very specific rules,re if you wanna give notice,go to court re eviction,
You have to follow em carefully ,4 weeks notice,etc,some times tenants just leave a property ,to avoid paying rent,or go on holiday without telling the landlord.
Unfortunately if you give notice, and go to court ,it maybe sometime be4 you get paid any rent.

LIKE any system an unscrupulous person can take advantage of it.
AND depending on how long the tenant is staying there, theres different rules re notice to quit.
shops have shoplifters, landlords have dishonest tenants.

There is no initial court procedure - ALL claims are adjudicated by the PRTB in the first and second instances. Only after a Tribunal decision can either party appeal to the courts.

In the case of rent arrears, there is only one time period for eviction of the tenant - 14 days Rent arrears Notice followed by a Notice of Termination giving 28 days. I think you are mistaking the Part 4 Notice periods for eviction by the landlord under certain grounds or the tenant leaving a property where it depends on the time in occupancy of the tenant.

With a fixed term lease or a Part 4 lease, where there is a breach of terms and conditions 28 days notice period is required irrespective of the length the tenant has been in occupancy. For serious anti-social behaviour the notice period may be 7 days.

Milk & Honey

odds_on wrote: »

T

With a fixed term lease or a Part 4 lease, where there is a breach of terms and conditions 28 days notice period is required irrespective of the length the tenant has been in occupancy. For serious anti-social behaviour the notice period may be 7 days.

With a part 4 lease a rent arrears notice and a breach of condition notice must precede the notice of termination.

Milk & Honey

djimi wrote: »

The lease can say anything it wants; the simple fact is that it is considered to be tresspassing if the landlord enters the property at any time without the tenants expressed permission. A landlord is fully entitled to arrange an inspection with a tenant, provided adequate notice is given, but they are not entitled to tell the tenant that in three days they will be barging in to have a look around.

Normally leases contain a clause stating that notice may be effected by delivering a letter to the premises either by hand or by ordinary post. If the tenant gets a notice and does not object the landlord can enter the premises. If the tenant objects it is a different story.

badinfleunce

Put Nothing in writing, get a locksmith, turn up at 11pm at night, turf the tenant out on his ear and feck his belongings out the window. Go to PRTB tribunal pay the fine and youll save a fortune.

The process with the PRTB takes so long and is wholly weighted on the Tenants side that by illegally evicting the Tenant you will save in the long run.

Take control of your Property and teach the Tenant/scammer a proper lesson. The Gards Cant do anything as it is a civil matter.

Oh and dont forget to appeal the judgement of the Tribunal.

windrock

Cheers everyone for a lot of very good advice.
Little update
A neighbour got in touch because the backdoor was swinging open. Quite lucky really.
So had an agent go over to lock up and secure the place. The tenant has vacated and taken all their stuff. Doesn't appear to be any damage or furniture missing but will have to confirm that later.

The lease agreement is the fixed term one I downloaded from http://www.topfloor.ie/lease.php with no changes made to it if that helps.

I have things in action to try legally pursue them for the rent owing and the utility bills (which were never changed over out of my name, I dropped the ball badly on that one )

Was just looking to find out now if I can go right ahead and clean the place up, change the locks and try get it rented again or is there some period of time I might have to wait? I don't expect to see sight or sound of the tenant again but just want to make sure I cover myself completely.

The_Conductor

badinfleunce wrote: »

Put Nothing in writing, get a locksmith, turn up at 11pm at night, turf the tenant out on his ear and feck his belongings out the window. Go to PRTB tribunal pay the fine and youll save a fortune.

The process with the PRTB takes so long and is wholly weighted on the Tenants side that by illegally evicting the Tenant you will save in the long run.

Take control of your Property and teach the Tenant/scammer a proper lesson. The Gards Cant do anything as it is a civil matter.

Oh and dont forget to appeal the judgement of the Tribunal.

Any more illegal advice like this will get you a holiday from posting in this forum. Irrespective of your personal opinions- it is *not* in order to advise anyone break the law.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

djimi

windrock wrote: »

Was just looking to find out now if I can go right ahead and clean the place up, change the locks and try get it rented again or is there some period of time I might have to wait? I don't expect to see sight or sound of the tenant again but just want to make sure I cover myself completely.

You would be well advised to cover your ass and follow the formal eviction process properly and fully. Send them a registered letter stating that you intend to start the eviction process if they do not respond in say 7 days, and after 7 days send them another registered letter stating that you are starting the eviction process. Right now they are still your tenants and if you start to clean the place, change the locks etc and they come back then they could start an illegal eviction case against you.

Its unlikely that they will come back of course, but its no harm to cover yourself just in case.

Doom

can you enter by saying 'I thought they may be dead or hurt as I have tried to contact them and I'm worried for their safety' or 'a neighbor rang to say they could smell a gas leak from my house, so I had to enter as it could be an emergency '

Ignore ^

Sorry, only looked at last posts now.......

Kosseegan

Residential Tenancies Act 2004

7.—(1) Subject to subsection (3), a Part 4 tenancy shall be deemed to have been terminated by the tenant on his or her vacating the dwelling if—

(a) before or on or about that vacating, he or she serves a notice of termination in respect of the tenancy that does not give the required period of notice, and

(b) before or on that vacating the rent has fallen into arrears.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), a Part 4 tenancy shall also be deemed to have been terminated by the tenant upon any rent owed by him or her being in arrears for a period of 28 days or more if—

(a) whether before or after the end of that period, the tenant has vacated the dwelling, and

(b) no notice of termination has been served by the tenant in respect of the tenancy.

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if the Part 4 tenancy has been sub-let or assigned.

(4) Nothing in the preceding subsections affects the liability of the tenant for rent for the period that would have elapsed had a notice of termination giving the required period of notice been served by him or her.

windrock

Thanks Kosseegan, but this is a fixed term tenancy and only started back last christmas so is under 6 months, so doesn't count as a Part 4.

I'll have a look around by Sec 7 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and see if there's anything there. I believe the rights will be stacked more in my favour than they would for a Part 4 so that's really encouraging.

I'm going to get a registered letter sent in the post giving 28 days notice till eviction. Not sure what good that will do.
I'm in the uk now but looking at getting back to Cork in the next few days. Try get this sorted and another tenant in as soon as possible. Last thing I'll do is change the locks.

Worst thing of all this is none of the utilities were transferred out of my name so I'll be on the hook for them.

djimi

windrock wrote: »

I'm going to get a registered letter sent in the post giving 28 days notice till eviction. Not sure what good that will do.

It will leave a registered papertrail to show that you followed the process by the book and should give you a watertight case if they do decide to try something funny like take a case for illegal eviction.