Entering a property if a tenant is in arrears and is dodging all communication?

Tigger

badinfleunce wrote: »

Put Nothing in writing, get a locksmith, turn up at 11pm at night, turf the tenant out on his ear and feck his belongings out the window. Go to PRTB tribunal pay the fine and youll save a fortune.

The process with the PRTB takes so long and is wholly weighted on the Tenants side that by illegally evicting the Tenant you will save in the long run.

Take control of your Property and teach the Tenant/scammer a proper lesson. The Gards Cant do anything as it is a civil matter.

Oh and dont forget to appeal the judgement of the Tribunal.

you're a Badinfluence


also the cops can of course do something about breasking into a house andd fecking the stuff out

ProudDUB

Am by no means endorsing the idea of making up bogus stories to gain entry to a property in cases like these. But what if a neighbour does ring you and reports something suspicious, or a broken window, or something that genuinely could compromise the security of a property?

You don't want to enter illegally in case the tenant later returns and accuses you of all kinds of stuff. But you want to be able to enter the property and make it secure. What are you supposed to do that (a) won't be a potential banana skin if you ever appear before the PRTB AND (b) takes care of your rightful concerns as a property owner?

riclad

its against the law ,to just change the locks, and throw the stuff out, ask the neighbour ,was anyone there the last 2 weeks.
The normal procedure is arrange to switch over esb/gas to tenants name after getting deposit.
Make sure the house insurance is paid for ,up to date on the house,thats IMPORTANT.
I presume you got a large deposit from the tenant.
Are you saying the tenant is still living there.
IF you intend to go for a court order,eviction ,you have to follow the law ,do everything by the book.
Every tenancy is supposed to be registered with the prtb.
THE tenant may have lost their job, or some other crisis like that.

I dont know what the law is,re a tenant abandons a house ,leaving rent owed.

riclad

plenty of info, advice here,
http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq&answer=91#answer

The_Conductor

riclad wrote: »

I dont know what the law is,re a tenant abandons a house ,leaving rent owed.

Part 4 tenancy no longer applies, the landlord has vacant possession of the property and if he/she wishes to pursue the tenant for the rent outstanding (in most cases its not worth the hassle)- its via the PRTB in the first instance. Landlord would change the locks etc and these would be item 1 out of the deposit (though the remainder would naturally be for the rent owing as per the rules).

the_syco

windrock wrote: »

Thanks for all the good advice. A dispute is already logged with the PRTB. A written notice of arrears citing the 14 days was dropped into the premises a few days ago and so far there has been no reply.

Send by registered post or you have NO PROOF that you dropped it in when you said you dropped it in.

Kaner2004

A bit of psychology here. Call to the house. If you sniff at the letterbox for long enough you will smell gas if you think their might be gas. "Oh, I smell gas". Call the guards and tell them you smell gas and havent been able to contact the tenants for weeks. The guards will have a sniff and smell gas too. Then you;re in.

Anyway, if you call in what can happen to you. Nothing. A lot of "oh, naughty landlord" and wagging of fingers and armchair warriors telling you how you have broken the law and linking you to this that and the other like it actually means anything. And what will the consequences be? Absolutely nothing.

Its your property. Call in. You are worried about the tenant now, just put the key in the door and walk in.

When I was letting property it happened several times that someone left and said nothing. You cant afford to be waiting to find out nobody lives in your property.

Honestly, there is nothing that will happen to you legally. Do something about your situation. Unless you count people posting links to words on the internet as painful. Maybe we should post links to real criminals. That'll sort them.

3DataModem

OK, I'm going to get flamed for this, but "if" another tenant who you knew in the building or nearby house called you and said they smelled smoke / gas, you would be well within your rights to gain entry (after attempting to phone, ring doorbell, knock on door, etc).

Morally it's up to you. As you describe the situation, a non-communicative non-paying tenant's moral rights start to drift from their legal rights after about 2 weeks in arrears.

riclad

DISPUTES between tenants and landlord are a civil matter,that gas idea makes no sense,the gas company may show up to just check for a leak.How does that help you?
WE have a court system,you can give the tenants notice.
I presume you could gain entry if you want,but the law says you cant just evict someone without going to court.
I,M not a lawyer, i presume you can drop in a note,i want to inspect property in 7 days time.
do NOT waste the gardai,s time.
There is prtb,and courts to deal with this matter.
I thought any tenant is entitled to 4 weeks notice to quit.

aN.Droid

Kaner2004 wrote: »

Anyway, if you call in what can happen to you. Nothing. A lot of "oh, naughty landlord" and wagging of fingers and armchair warriors telling you how you have broken the law and linking you to this that and the other like it actually means anything. And what will the consequences be? Absolutely nothing.

Actually the PRTB can award the tenant a cash sum and fine the landlord. Also it is trespassing and the tenants can have them removed by the guards if they entered without permission.

Caseywhale

riclad wrote: »

DISPUTES between tenants and landlord are a civil matter,that gas idea makes no sense,the gas company may com to just check for a leak.
WE have a court system,you can give the tenants notice.
I presume you could gain entry if you want,but the law says you cant just evict someone without going to court.
I,M not a lawyer, i presume you can drop in a note,i want to inspect property in 7 days time.
do NOT waste the gardai,s time.
There is prtb,and courts to deal with this matter.
I thought any tenant is entitled to 4 weeks notice to quit.

My reading of this situation is that the tenant is not contactable and may have left already, or be dead in the house.
OP, just go in and if anyone says anything just say you were worried. I have a friend who was in the same situation. After a week of no contact they went in to find the taps all on sinks overflowing and the radiator bleed valves open and water flowing from them all over the place.
The place was absolutely destroyed. Water eventually even went through next doors walls. Cost many thousands to get fixed.
The tenant had skipped and just turned off their phone never to be seen again.

You are perfectly entitled to check if anything is wrong. The tenant might be dead in the living room. And as was said earlier, you would get into more trouble driving with your car tax out of date. There is nothing that can happen to you apart from people typing at you or wagging fingers.
The longer you leave it the more damage might occur.

Limericks wrote: »

Actually the PRTB can award the tenant a cash sum and fine the landlord. Also it is trespassing and the tenants can have them removed by the guards if they entered without permission.

The PRTB wont do any such thing for entering a property where there is no contact from the tenant and you wonder if they might be dead. They never have and never will. And if the guards are called just tell them you were worried as you phoned, knocked on the door and no answer. Nothing at all will happen to you. And the tenant wont call the guards if they arent there anymore anyway. The guards will be on your side.

riclad

RE water leaks ,etc you have insurance,most people would not do that.
UNLESS there is serious anti social behavior , gardai do not get involved
in tenant landlord disputes.They have enough to do dealing with serious crimes.
Some tenants, will wait x amount of time ,then leave without paying rent.
IF at some point you determine tenant has left , then you have the right to enter your property ,to secure it, and change the locks.
IF tenant is still there, you can give them notice,and take them to court.
WE do not have enough gardai to have them take time chasing tenants for 800euros rent.They are not trained to be judge in such disputes.
GARDAI deal with criminal matters.
IS this tenant a single person,or a family with 2 kids.
LIKE shop s that suffer shopplifting ,a landlord has to know theres some dishonest people out there , and be ready to deal with it in a logical manner without breaking the law.
if the tenant leaves, whos gonna complain to the prtb.

windrock

Sorry, thought I'd posted an update already.

Day or two after dropping in the note of arrears a neighbour phoned to say that the back door was open.
Having need to secure the premises I entered the house and the tenent had moved out. Probably a few days before the initial notice of arrears was dropped in.

Tenent had not gotten any of the appliances they claimed to have purchased (in lieu of rent) so even more arrears owed. Bit of damage to the house as well. Wasn't thrashed but a load of really careless accidental damage especially considering the how short a time they were in there.

PRTB complaint took a while and didn't really move at all until I could furnish them with an address for the tenant. Luckily the wreckless arseholes had left food in all three wheelie bins so within the paperwork I found out a PRSI number (stupid not to have checked this out originally), address for an ex-spouse, a boyfriend and their parents, boyfriend's business address and two licence plates. They owe money all over town.

They were a no show at the hearing and last month I was awarded my full claim. Claim ended up being close to three times what they saved themselves. Pretty sure the tenant moved in already planning to eventually do a runner so pretty stupid.

Reckon I'll need to go to court next to enforce the PRTB order.
Soon as I have my money (another year or so I expect) I'll be letting their other debtors know how to find them.

djimi

I wouldnt hold my breath on seeing too much, if any, of the money owed to be honest, but provided its not going to cost you too much to persue it then Id definately say go for it. Just be thankful that you got the house back in a reasonable condition and that these "people" are out of your hair.

Castlehaven

Just a side issue to this thread and the reference's to sending letters by registered post.

We had an distressed tenancy earlier this year where a 28 day notice (sent by registered post) was not signed for. We spoke to the PRTB and they advised us to use swift post since a registered letter can be refused by the intended recipient and therefore deemed undelivered. Swiftpost gets delivered with proof of delivery provided by An Post.

In the above instance the tenant was in such a mess he was not even answering the door to anyone let alone signing for registered post

djimi

Would a registered letter not show as being refused or whatever if the tenant actively refused to sign for it? How would Swiftpost change this?

Castlehaven

djimi wrote: »

Would a registered letter not show as being refused or whatever if the tenant actively refused to sign for it? How would Swiftpost change this?

I think it is simply that in the case of the registered letter it was not delivered - An Post make two attempts at delivery then return to sender. With Swiftpost the item does not need to be signed for and is delivered like normal post but delivery is certified by An Post. I stand to be corrected on this; I am not personally responsible for post in my company.

Victor

hohojojo wrote: »

well my suggestion is to ask one of the neighbours have they seen your tenent and if not just go in and if the tenent is still there say that you got a a call you say that someone dodgy looked like they were trying to break in and you just wanted to make sure the house and your tenent were alright as you couldn't get through to them or you could but i wouldn't do it myself resort to calling the gaurds yourself and put in an anonymous complaint and just tell them you don't want to get invovled and they should check it out it wouldn't be long before you'd get a call obviously don't use your own phone.

Legally dubious comments not welcome

Moderator

Linoge

djimi wrote: »

I wouldnt hold my breath on seeing too much, if any, of the money owed to be honest, but provided its not going to cost you too much to persue it then Id definately say go for it. Just be thankful that you got the house back in a reasonable condition and that these "people" are out of your hair.

Is a PRTB judgement not enforceable just like a court order?

Milk & Honey

Linoge wrote: »

Is a PRTB judgement not enforceable just like a court order?

No. An application has to be made to the Circuit Court for an order based on the PRTB decision.