Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Younganne

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Someone mentioned that this is the toughest week of HHN2. What a week then to be bringing forward by a day, missing a rest day in the process. Just back from 5m - being knackered all day in work was a bad start. Felt queasy on the way round but got home in one piece. Early nights this week I think - need the rest more than ever.

Dilbert, Please Please do not skip Rest days, they are a vital part of the plan, better to miss one of the shorter runs....

NoelJ wrote: »

. Should I just give up or perhaps take off this week and continue on HHN1? I was doing HHN2.

I won't be able to do any runs this week.

Noelj, if dropping back to HHN1 helps you to fit the program then drop back, but its whatever best suits you. Its a very bad idea to be missing runs for a whole week, unless injured, but otherwise you are putting your body under pressure when you drop back into the plan after missing runs....try and get out for a few runs as close as possible to the distances required.

I don't like saying this after all the hard work, but if you can't commit to the plan in this vital time of training maybe step back from DCM and plan for a Spring marathon......no point in missing weeks of training and then your first marathon turns into a nightmare on the day...
Remember you only have 1 first marathion, make it a good and enjoyable experience.

Donal112

I have my first physio appointment this afternoon. Very worried about my calf. I've been limping around since my 5 mile run yesterday. Not as sore today as it was yesterday. Hopefully just a strain from overuse and a few days off/stretching will put it right, but it doesn't feel good at all. Fingers crossed.

Am gutted cos I have been completely injury free up to now and haven't skipped a single run, and out of nowhere..........

dazza21ie

rasher_m wrote: »

Yeah that would be pretty special but I havn't broken 50 mins for the 10km so doubt its achieveable for me.

Likewise would have preferred to have a 10k time sub 50 to be fully confident but dont think it's essential (not looking at the McMillan Calculator anyway). But will see how the half goes first.

Mr Slow

dazza21ie wrote: »

Likewise would have preferred to have a 10k time sub 50 to be fully confident but dont think it's essential (not looking at the McMillan Calculator anyway). But will see how the half goes first.

Twice your half time plus 10% will give you a good indication of what time you can expect on the day.

Runchick

Mr Slow wrote: »

dazza21ie wrote: »

Likewise would have preferred to have a 10k time sub 50 to be fully confident but dont think it's essential (not looking at the McMillan Calculator anyway). But will see how the half goes first.

Twice your half time plus 10% will give you a good indication of what time you can expect on the day.

Guys I read somewhere recently that a good way to work out marathon time is to do a 10km race about 4 weeks before and multiply that time by 5. Seems conservative but sensible to me, anyone else heard this one? I'm not sure about times at all - of course the aim is to finish but can't help thinking about a time - my runs have definitely gotten faster the past few weeks. Midweek runs around 9 min mile and LSR about 10 min mile. Would I be absolutely ridiculous to consider a 9 min 30 pace on the day ( I always thought 10min mile pace before now but am doing LSR at that pace quite comfortably). anyone else in this pace range?

Murph_D

Donal112 wrote: »

Am gutted cos I have been completely injury free up to now and haven't skipped a single run, and out of nowhere..........

Sorry to hear that Donal - I'm in exactly the same position and I dread something like that happening at this stage. Hopefully it's something minor. Did you notice anything unusual on the run itself?

macinalli

Runchick wrote: »

Midweek runs around 9 min mile and LSR about 10 min mile. Would I be absolutely ridiculous to consider a 9 min 30 pace on the day ( I always thought 10min mile pace before now but am doing LSR at that pace quite comfortably). anyone else in this pace range?

It may well be that 9.30/mile is the right pace for you, but your thinking here is wrong. You should base your target race time on your performance in other races, not on your perceived effort for LSRs. There's no need for deciding on this yet. Are you doing the race series half marathon? If so, then run that as hard as you can, and then follow Mr Slow's rule for double the time then add 10%. It will give you a much better idea of what you can do on the day.

dazza21ie

Mr Slow wrote: »

Twice your half time plus 10% will give you a good indication of what time you can expect on the day.

Thanks. Have seen that guide before (maybe from yourself!) and seen other reports which reckon it is quite accurate. Differs a bit from what McMillan comes up with but then McMillan reckons we are all robots. Lets see how the half goes so.

Trampas

Going by my times in races lately I would be in the 3.52 barrier and maybe close to 3.50 on the day.

Even at that I would still be going out running a 4 hour pace and see how I am going around Rathgar/Miltown area.

Would rather finish strong than struggle over the line. (Will probably struggle over the line anyway) but not struggle from RTE inwards

Donal112

murphd77 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that Donal - I'm in exactly the same position and I dread something like that happening at this stage. Hopefully it's something minor. Did you notice anything unusual on the run itself?

Thanks Murph. First noticed it when I started my LSR on Sat. Just that my calf felt a bit iffy, not sore at all, just like there was a big knot in it. But I ran the whole 17 miles without it bothering me anymore than 'knowing it was there' so didn't really worry about it. Then it was a little bit sore and stiff over the weekend.

Angry with myself cos I should have rested it and gone to the physio after that looking back. But i haven't had any injuries at all other than a few aches and pains, so I thought 'ah it'll be grand!'. Had massaged it with a golf ball over the weekend (felt like it was a knot in the muscle) and it felt like it had really loosened up so did a few easy miles yesterday to see how it was..... bad move!! It was fine during the run, again just a bit achy, but then it started to hurt in the last half mile and really tightened up after the run so that I was limpling quite badle yesterday afternoon/evening. It has been sore since then, a bit better today, but still limping a little. Right in the middle of my calf muscles only (nothing in ankle/achilles or anything). I'll report back after the physio this avo.

Runchick

macinalli wrote: »

Runchick wrote: »

Midweek runs around 9 min mile and LSR about 10 min mile. Would I be absolutely ridiculous to consider a 9 min 30 pace on the day ( I always thought 10min mile pace before now but am doing LSR at that pace quite comfortably). anyone else in this pace range?

It may well be that 9.30/mile is the right pace for you, but your thinking here is wrong. You should base your target race time on your performance in other races, not on your perceived effort for LSRs. There's no need for deciding on this yet. Are you doing the race series half marathon? If so, then run that as hard as you can, and then follow Mr Slow's rule for double the time then add 10%. It will give you a much better idea of what you can do on the day.

Thanks macinalli unfortunately I can't do any races before the big one, I work weekends and all half marathons are too far away for me to make any. I ran my first half in week 1 of the plan at a 9 min 20 sec pace, and fitness had definitely improved since then, however I took a few weeks out with a hip injury so don't want to go out too fast and have it rear it's ugly head mid race. It's all a bit confusing!

limoncella

really struggled last week with stomach issues. Had to bail out of my 7 miler Wednesday at 3.3 miles (called my husband to come get me in the car from the trail as there was no way I could run to a bathroom in time :eek:). Took the next few days off and ran the 7 on the treadmill Saturday. Was still not feeling 100% Sunday or Monday so I'm going to attempt the LSR today (12 miles instead of 15 since I'm still building up my mileage). I have a 6.6km race in Paris this weekend so I was already planning to push this coming week's lsr back. I hate to be fiddling too much with the plan especially since I'm on a shorter training schedule as it is but I'm not sure how else to deal with this.

jprender

dazza21ie wrote: »

Looks like you have a nice flat route there. I'm jealous!! Can sell you a few hills if you want?!

Yeah Dundalk is as flat as a pancake really.

But now you do have me wondering if I should try to find some routes with some decent hills in them.

For those that are reading and have already done the DCM, what's it like, hill wise ?
Any idea of the total climb meters for the route as per a garmin ?

Should I try to get some hills under my belt, or just concentrate on racking up the miles regardless of hills ?

Trampas

got my new runners for the marathon today

NB 860 been using them since April is decided on keep the same shoe as not a good time to be switching

RayCun

Dublin marathon 2011 Garmin record

The 2012 route is essentially the same.

Mr Slow

dazza21ie wrote: »

Mr Slow wrote: »

Twice your half time plus 10% will give you a good indication of what time you can expect on the day.

Thanks. Have seen that guide before (maybe from yourself!) and seen other reports which reckon it is quite accurate. Differs a bit from what McMillan comes up with but then McMillan reckons we are all robots. Lets see how the half goes so.

McMillan works on the basis that you're running 60 plus miles per week for an extended period, it's only when your training hits that level that his marathon projection starts to come into play.

leeomurchu

RayCun wrote: »

Dublin marathon 2011 Garmin record

The 2012 route is essentially the same.

I'd love to be able to run consistant times like those.

Fair play to ya. One can only dream

Runchick

RayCun wrote: »

Dublin marathon 2011 Garmin record

The 2012 route is essentially the same.

Cheers RayCun have been wondering about this myself. According to this the DCM route has exactly the same elevation as my last LSR so perfect to practice on I'll be sticking to the same route from here on if that's the case.

RayCun

That was the 3.45 pacer, not me

Here's mine. Not so consistent, some slower miles through Crumlin and Clonskeagh and I was dying on my feet in the last couple of miles...

jprender

Ah, and there is something that I have always wondered about Garmins and elevation.


Any idea why the route for the pacer shows total elevation gain of 274m, whereas your own shows a gain of 572m ?


Sometimes when I run, I feel that there were quite a few climbs only to see a really small number when checking the garmin afterwards. I wonder how accurate they are ?

My previous marathon (Barcelona) showed a gain of 944m, something that I find very hard to believe.

RayCun

Garmin's elevation calculation is terrible

Brian was using a Garmin 110, I was using a 305, his record seems to be less detailed than mine.

Murph_D

jprender wrote: »

Any idea why the route for the pacer shows total elevation gain of 274m, whereas your own shows a gain of 572m ?

If you look at the elevation graphs for those two runs you will see they are pretty much identical, with a range of about 25-75m, which sounds more like it for Dublin.

lrak

Hi, I'm brand new to this forum, my first post! But I have being reading with interest everyone's experiences moving up the mileage charts.
For what it's worth, this will be my first DCM I ran up to last years half and swore that I would never run one due to time commitments etc, but switching on the tv last year to watch it made me feel left out!!
Anyway I'm a big guy, 6.3 and 16 stone, cant seem to drop below this weight, but fit, running for the past few years. I have being running only 3 days a week, and since Sept, 4 days; my lsr has reached 17 miles last Sat and like others, I found the last 2 miles to be a killer, mixture of walking, staggering and jogging, I looked a sight, but got there.
I am not following the same plan as you guys, I kind of made one up after researching loads of different charts, but it doesn't seem to be too disimiliar to the HH. Luckily except for nearly dying at the end of my lsr (10.30 -11 ) and a bit of chaffing I have suffered no injuries; this weeks plan was to run a 4m(8.30) speed last night, which went well and an 8m pace(9.-9.30) tonight, rest Wed and 4m warm down Thurs before 18m lsr Sat.
It's great to have an outlet like this to be involved in, my wife although polite switches off at the mention of running talk! Seems to be
a great buzz also with encouragement, support and advice and sorry I didn't find earlier, but I look forward to participating. Thanks for listening!

jprender

RayCun wrote: »

Garmin's elevation calculation is terrible

Brian was using a Garmin 110, I was using a 305, his record seems to be less detailed than mine.

I hope my Garmin was really acting up in the rain last night.

For the whole 27k, I only had a total climb of 57m.
Per your route, the first mile of the DCM has practically the same

Gotta find me some hills quick :pac:

rasher_m

limoncella wrote: »

really struggled last week with stomach issues. Had to bail out of my 7 miler Wednesday at 3.3 miles (called my husband to come get me in the car from the trail as there was no way I could run to a bathroom in time :eek:). Took the next few days off and ran the 7 on the treadmill Saturday. Was still not feeling 100% Sunday or Monday so I'm going to attempt the LSR today (12 miles instead of 15 since I'm still building up my mileage). I have a 6.6km race in Paris this weekend so I was already planning to push this coming week's lsr back. I hate to be fiddling too much with the plan especially since I'm on a shorter training schedule as it is but I'm not sure how else to deal with this.

You could turn the 6.6.km race into a longer run. It seems like a very short race to be pushing things around for...sorry just an opinion;)

Donal112

Donal112 wrote: »

I have my first physio appointment this afternoon. Very worried about my calf. I've been limping around since my 5 mile run yesterday. Not as sore today as it was yesterday. Hopefully just a strain from overuse and a few days off/stretching will put it right, but it doesn't feel good at all. Fingers crossed.

Am gutted cos I have been completely injury free up to now and haven't skipped a single run, and out of nowhere..........

Just back from Physio. Tear in my calf muscle.

He says no running for up to 2 weeks until walking, cycling, etc is completely pain free and then start off with some very easy runs and build back up from there if no reaction. Hopefully will be back training in 2 weeks.

First thing thats out is the half marathon next week, no chance according to physio. Marathon: should be ok to run all going well but pretty much going to miss the next 2 weeks training plus have to build back up after.

Gutted.

tang1

Donal112 wrote: »

Just back from Physio. Tear in my calf muscle.

He says no running for up to 2 weeks until walking, cycling, etc is completely pain free and then start off with some very easy runs and build back up from there if no reaction. Hopefully will be back training in 2 weeks.

First thing thats out is the half marathon next week, no chance according to physio. Marathon: should be ok to run all going well but pretty much going to miss the next 2 weeks training plus have to build back up after.

Gutted.

Sorry to hear that, hopefully fingers crossed it will only be the two weeks as the physio said. Do as he said and please god you'll be ok.

limoncella

rasher_m wrote: »

You could turn the 6.6.km race into a longer run. It seems like a very short race to be pushing things around for...sorry just an opinion;)

I would if I wasn't traveling for this race. I basically have time to race, shower and then catch the train home the same day (train ride of roughly 2 hours). Not sure it would count if I have all that time on the train sitting then running again when I get home? The only reason I'm doing this is because it's for a good cause and I do it every year. I'm not so much pushing runs around to taper or anything just moving days to fit it all in. I planned on racing that on Sunday and doing my lsr Monday. I was just feeling frustrated that last week was all botched due to being sick. MOAN lol

limoncella

Donal112 wrote: »

Just back from Physio. Tear in my calf muscle.

Gutted.

So sorry to read this. But at least the marathon is not totally off the table. Just take care of yourself

LarMan

Donal112 wrote: »

Just back from Physio. Tear in my calf muscle.

He says no running for up to 2 weeks until walking, cycling, etc is completely pain free and then start off with some very easy runs and build back up from there if no reaction. Hopefully will be back training in 2 weeks.

First thing thats out is the half marathon next week, no chance according to physio. Marathon: should be ok to run all going well but pretty much going to miss the next 2 weeks training plus have to build back up after.

Gutted.

Bad Luck Donal, I had a feeling in my calf during my LSR last Sunday and it scared me but luckily it dissapeared. Hopefully you will be back running soon.