Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

rasher_m

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Younganne wrote: »

Pacers are fantastic for helping you to get around in one piece, no matter which time Pacer you use, but they don't only keep the pace nice and even, they give encouragement, and advice to everyone along the way, they take your mind of the running when its getting tough, and they encourage you to go on if you are doing well.
They help alot of people get to the finish line and are a fantastic asset to any marathon.

Absolutely right. I had found the pacers very good in the Wexford Half this year and Menoscemo was one of the pacers who led my wife to her first sub-1:45 in the same event last year. It was her first time running with pacers and she was delighted with the support & encouragement she got from them both (can't remember the other guy's name).

I think this is one feature that my recent Edinburgh Marathon was really missing out on, despite people asking for pacers for weeks in advance. I really believe that had there been pacers, I would have kept going / resisted walking for longer and finished stronger.

Its one thing I'm definite of for DCM - whichever time I go for, I'll be hanging on to them for dear life.

I might give them another go this year, i have no doubt about them being good to people etc. im just wondering if they suit my mind set or if im a lone ranger

Dilbert75

rasher_m wrote: »

I might give them another go this year, i have no doubt about them being good to people etc. im just wondering if they suit my mind set or if im a lone ranger

Sure its only a case of staying 100m in front of or behind the people running at the speed you want to do. As long as you keep pace with them on average, you get what you want out of it. You don't have to participate in the group as such, but the support will be there if you need or want it.

zooming

Younganne wrote: »

Pacers are fantastic for helping you to get around in one piece, no matter which time Pacer you use, but they don't only keep the pace nice and even, they give encouragement, and advice to everyone along the way, they take your mind of the running when its getting tough, and they encourage you to go on if you are doing well.
They help alot of people get to the finish line and are a fantastic asset to any marathon.
And don't forget, they all do it because of their kind and generous nature to help others achieve!

Thanks! As a 5 hour gal it would be nice not to bust yourself at the start, and with nerves you might have a tendency to do just that. Great advice as always

Runchick

Just back from my longest LSR to date, 13.4 miles in 2hrs 15mins, well chuffed as I found it ok, only getting a bit of a sore back towards the end. I'm doing my first HM in 2 weeks which I am more confident about now I know I have covered the distance. Now, there are pacers up to 2hr15 in the HM and now I'm unsure whether to go for a comfortable 2.15 or push myself to follow the 2hr guys. Do you think this would be a push too far or a reasonable challenge?? Having read your comments about pacers I'm keen to use them...

Mr Slow

Runchick wrote: »

Just back from my longest LSR to date, 13.4 miles in 2hrs 15mins, well chuffed as I found it ok, only getting a bit of a sore back towards the end. I'm doing my first HM in 2 weeks which I am more confident about now I know I have covered the distance. Now, there are pacers up to 2hr15 in the HM and now I'm unsure whether to go for a comfortable 2.15 or push myself to follow the 2hr guys. Do you think this would be a push too far or a reasonable challenge?? Having read your comments about pacers I'm keen to use them...

How were you after your LSR? Was there more in the tank?

Runchick

Mr Slow wrote: »

How were you after your LSR? Was there more in the tank?

Hi Mr Slow Yeah there was def a bit more in the tank, I ran the last half mile quite fast so wasn't ready to die or anything! Felt like I could have done another few miles...

Trampas

Back after my 20km run in Donadea Forest. Had the pleasure of my last 4 kms been passed by loads of people doing a duathlon. They must have all thought I went off like a bullet and died but it made me run faster than I intended.

Ran it in 6.02 pace so happy with that as I could push harder if required.

Muddy in parts.

Was hungry towards the end but great confidence booster to do 20km as longest run ever.

menoscemo

Runchick wrote: »

Just back from my longest LSR to date, 13.4 miles in 2hrs 15mins, well chuffed as I found it ok, only getting a bit of a sore back towards the end. I'm doing my first HM in 2 weeks which I am more confident about now I know I have covered the distance. Now, there are pacers up to 2hr15 in the HM and now I'm unsure whether to go for a comfortable 2.15 or push myself to follow the 2hr guys. Do you think this would be a push too far or a reasonable challenge?? Having read your comments about pacers I'm keen to use them...

You have run further than HM in training in 2:15, so going with the 2:15 pacers would be a step backwards. We all race faster than we train (at least we should do). I am not sure if you are ok for 2hrs, you will know better yourself but 2:15 is not even an option....

Martin_ie2012

zooming wrote: »

At least you have told your friends!! I have not 'come out of the closet' so to speak lol, about my marathon ambitions, I am still carrying about a stone too much (i lost almost 6 stone over the past 2 years) and am hoping this marathon journey will help! I actually cried watching the Biggest loser marathon last week, did anyone see it? 26.2 miles in the Southern California heat too..phew. I think people will look at me sideways when I say Im doing a marathon, the same way they would look at a fat kid in a tutu who is looking to be a ballerina....disbelief and pity LOL!!:D
Its good to have you guys to chat to! Im gonna do a 10 miler on Sunday, Im guessing 1 hr 58mins :eek:

Saw the biggest loser marathon alright, must say it was emotional kept thinking that will be me in a few months. Gotme very excited. Cant believe they had to do biggest loser marathon on open roads not closed to traffic. Looked a bit dangerous.

Martin_ie2012

zooming wrote: »

Might be easier to follow a pacer than check that watch every 5 yards!

I know i use an iphone app and am trying to train myself to stop taking it out and looking at it every 30 seconds.

career_move

shortie_chik wrote: »

I was thinking of following the Novice 2 plan also. I've done a few half-marathons so I know I'll be able to manage the first 6 weeks of LSRs in HH-N2. I hope in the first 6 weeks to get more comfortable with the distances I've already done.
Excited to start building!

I'm up for Novice 2 also. One question though: We have to do pace runs on a Wed...how much faster should they be compared to the other runs?

Duzzie

Have my longest run to date to do this afternoon, 16kms. Not really looking forward to it as 12 is the furthest i've run so far. Wish me luck.

tang1

career_move wrote: »

I'm up for Novice 2 also. One question though: We have to do pace runs on a Wed...how much faster should they be compared to the other runs?

They should be at goal marathon pace, get you used to some miles at your goal marathon pace.

Mr Slow

Runchick wrote: »

Hi Mr Slow Yeah there was def a bit more in the tank, I ran the last half mile quite fast so wasn't ready to die or anything! Felt like I could have done another few miles...

menoscemo wrote: »

You have run further than HM in training in 2:15, so going with the 2:15 pacers would be a step backwards. We all race faster than we train (at least we should do). I am not sure if you are ok for 2hrs, you will know better yourself but 2:15 is not even an option....

What he said!

Pacing Mule

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

I know i use an iphone app and am trying to train myself to stop taking it out and looking at it every 30 seconds.

Try endomondo - it feeds back to you every kilometre / mille with your time so far, time for the last kilometre, expected finish time based on run so far etc - Brilliant app.

Trampas

what do people use to track runs etc?

I bought a garmin 405cx with heart monitor and find it great

Martin_ie2012

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Try endomondo - it feeds back to you every kilometre / mille with your time so far, time for the last kilometre, expected finish time based on run so far etc - Brilliant app.

Cheers will give that one a try as that will be good especially for LSR's. Long term plan is to get one of the Garmin Forerunners with HRM. But that's a long way off

Runchick

Mr Slow wrote: »

What he said!

Thanks for the comments guys.
So I'm left with a dilemma, I would really like to use the pacers but feel I fall in between 2 and 2.15hrs, maybe I should try keeping up with the 2 hr guys and just fall back if I'm really struggling? I ran 5 mile the other night at a 9min pace but def not ready to attempt that over 13.1!

On a different note, anyone booked a hotel in Dublin yet for DCM? Any recommendations on where to stay, I'll be bringing my family - hubbie and 3 young kids - so want somewhere close to the action but suitable for them. Thinking I want to book it soon - kind of adding to the certainty of the whole thing! Any suggestions??

RedRunner

Trampas wrote: »

what do people use to track runs etc?

I bought a garmin 405cx with heart monitor and find it great

I have the forerunner 110. I find it great and it doesnt look like a mini computer on the wrist. Have the HRM but I never use it. What do people think about using HRMs and are they any use?

Do you change pace etc according to HR ? Or is it just for information afterwards when analysing pace, distance etc?

Duzzie

RedRunner wrote: »

I have the forerunner 110. I find it great and it doesnt look like a mini computer on the wrist. Have the HRM but I never use it. What do people think about using HRMs and are they any use?

Do you change pace etc according to HR ? Or is it just for information afterwards when analysing pace, distance etc?

I use a HRM. I use it mostly when I am crosstraining to keep me training in my target Heart Rate Zone. I use it when i'm running but not really to monitor my heart rate but for the post run data. I find it very helpful when crosstraining to make sure i'm not over / under doing my work out but dont really use the heart rate info when i'm running.

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

I have the forerunner 110. I find it great and it doesnt look like a mini computer on the wrist. Have the HRM but I never use it. What do people think about using HRMs and are they any use?

Do you change pace etc according to HR ? Or is it just for information afterwards when analysing pace, distance etc?

I find it useful but generally only analyse it after the run. As a general rule you should keep your easy runs below 80% of your max HR. It is often a good guage of improving fitness as you will notice you hold a better pace for a lower HR as you get fitter.

Runner2012

Going to jump aboard on this one. Hoping to do DCM in October but really lack any structured training plan -only run maybe twice a week- enter some races here and there. Dabbling in triathalons being the main reason for the lack of focus on running. Would hope to run DCM in 3.30- if
I managed to stick to a training plan- is this realistic for a first marathon?

Race times
5k Dublin Docklands May 2012 - 21.37
5 miles Terenure May 2012 35.53
10k Flora mini marathon June 2012 - 44.18
10 mile frank Duffy 2011 1.19.26

1/2 marathon - only have connemathon under my belt in a slllllow 1.50!!

zooming

Just back from my 10 miler, 1 hr 56. Happy enough and could have done a bit more, I live up in the hills and it's up and down for the first 3 miles and the last 3 miles which I find tough towards the end, mile 4 10.59 mile 5 11.20 and 6 11.12. It's the hills that kill me!!!

zooming

I bought the Hal Higdon iPhone app and it's great! He talks to you every 10 mins and counts down your miles. ONLY HALF A MILE LEFT YOU CAN DO IT!!!! Ha

Pacing Mule

Runner2012 wrote: »

Race times
5k Dublin Docklands May 2012 - 21.37
5 miles Terenure May 2012 35.53
10k Flora mini marathon June 2012 - 44.18
10 mile frank Duffy 2011 1.19.26

1/2 marathon - only have connemathon under my belt in a slllllow 1.50!!

If that's slllllow most here are at tortoise pace.

tang1

13.19 miles this morning in 1hr 51min 14sec avg pace of 8.26min/mile. Felt very comfortable at this pace, tried my LSR a bit faster on advice of Mr Slow to see how it felt. Loads left in the tank when i finished. Up at 6am to run, i must be getting into this running stuff, either that or i'm losing it!!

Mr Slow

tang1 wrote: »

13.19 miles this morning in 1hr 51min 14sec avg pace of 8.26min/mile. Felt very comfortable at this pace, tried my LSR a bit faster on advice of Mr Slow to see how it felt. Loads left in the tank when i finished. Up at 6am to run, i must be getting into this running stuff, either that or i'm losing it!!

Just to clarify, I adviced incorporating paced runs into your LSR's not that you run them faster and that's not every run, just a few throughout your program.

Most of the rest of you will be running the marathon quite close to the pace you are running at now for your LSR's.

Runchick

zooming wrote: »

I bought the Hal Higdon iPhone app and it's great! He talks to you every 10 mins and counts down your miles. ONLY HALF A MILE LEFT YOU CAN DO IT!!!! Ha

I've been considering buying this app. I currently use Runkeeper which tells me my distance and pace every 10 mins and I like it too. With the Higdon app can you make changes to the plan, say add a mile to the distance and change days?? If so I think I might invest!

tang1

Mr Slow wrote: »

Just to clarify, I adviced incorporating paced runs into your LSR's not that you run them faster and that's not every run, just a few throughout your program.

I know, just improvised this morning seeing i was in the humour. Will be following your advice come 25th of June when the training programme kicks in.

Trampas

last day to sign up for the 1st event of the dcm race series

shortie_chik

Weekly check in time!
3-4-3-5LSR done. 5 mile LSR was harder than I expected!
Should have got it in on Saturday but got lazy & only went out this afternoon. Gonna have to keep making the effort on Saturday mornings. Leaves me with the rest of the weekend to pat myself on the back and the longest possible rest time before I run again on Tuesday.

Next week: 3-5-3-8LSR.

Trampas wrote: »

what do people use to track runs etc?
I bought a garmin 405cx with heart monitor and find it great

I bought a Garmin Forerunner 405 a few years ago & have got great use out of it. The beep every mile & little pacer dude are great help. Mostly I keep an eye on my average speed / how I'm doing versus my pacer. Also I like to know the distance covered; this helps me a lot if I'm finding the run tough or easy. Especially gives me a little boost to see I've gone farther than I'd noticed & amn't feeling too worn out!

I don't really watch the heart rate info while I'm running (unless I'm having a really tough time & I just check that I'm not going to explode). Sometimes I take a look at it when I'm looking back over the run info. I usually just judge how I'm doing based on how my lungs / legs feel.

Duzzie

Week 4 done. I missed this weeks 5km as I only got to do last weeks 12km LSR on Monday which threw my plans out. So this week was 8k - 8k - 16k plus the carried over 12k from last week. The 16k today was tough going but got through it ok. Went on a route on the back country roads in Wicklow and found i had underestimated some of the hills on the route, if these hills don't prepare me for the DCM, nothing will. Legs are feeling it now though.
Plan has for an easier week next week, presumably to allow a bit of recovery after the 16k run this week.

Mr Slow

Duzzie wrote: »

Week 4 done. I missed this weeks 5km as I only got to do last weeks 12km LSR on Monday which threw my plans out. So this week was 8k - 8k - 16k plus the carried over 12k from last week. The 16k today was tough going but got through it ok. Went on a route on the back country roads in Wicklow and found i had underestimated some of the hills on the route, if these hills don't prepare me for the DCM, nothing will. Legs are feeling it now though.
Plan has for an easier week next week, presumably to allow a bit of recovery after the 16k run this week.

Don't carry over runs, you increase your weekly mileage by too much and risk injury or overtraining. If you miss one, let it go.

DMG1983

Hey guys, fantastic thread thanks a million for starting it!!
I am a 28 year old female.
I used to run competitively when I was younger but due to an injury I had to stop for a long time (then I got lazy:rolleyes:)and now I'm just getting back into it.
My only time indications would be 50mins for a 10k.
I run 6km 3-4 times a week depending on work but I'm not very consistent with it so I think this thread will really help me!!
I went to watch the Edinburgh marathon a few weeks ago because my bessie was running it and it kind of inspired me to commit to the DCM.
I've always wanted to do it but I wasn't convinced I could, I seen all shapes and sizes crossing the finishing line and it made me realise you don't have to look like an athlete to be able to finish the marathon!!
I would be happy enough to finish but I would love to do it in 4.5 hours!!
Looking forward to the challange and sharing ideas and training tips:D

rasher_m

Well my log for the week was as follows
Mon - I ran the mini marathon, i thought id get under the 50 mins cause i got 53'48 for the GIR but got 52'05. I was a bit disappointed.
Tues - 6km tempo on threadmill
Wed - 6km tempo on threadmill
Sat - 12.5 miles - was a broken run that took over two hours as I had the dog with me and had to stop to pick her up from her home and then for drinks and a chat etc. ha
Today just done a 4.5 mile walk, feeling stiff enough I have to say.

I'm thinking of the Clontarf half but still not sure but ive signed up for the 5 mile in the park at the end of the month anyway.

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

zooming

Runchick wrote: »

zooming wrote: »

I bought the Hal Higdon iPhone app and it's great! He talks to you every 10 mins and counts down your miles. ONLY HALF A MILE LEFT YOU CAN DO IT!!!! Ha

I've been considering buying this app. I currently use Runkeeper which tells me my distance and pace every 10 mins and I like it too. With the Higdon app can you make changes to the plan, say add a mile to the distance and change days?? If so I think I might invest!

When you put in the date of your marathon it automatically starts 18 weeks before, in our case June 25, but you can log a run into the journal at anytime, if you want to run 4 miles instead of 3 you can just carry on and hit done once you have stopped and all your run info will be logged. I like it and it gives you tips everyday too, some of the other apps are harder to work! But I'm impressed with this one. I also have a garmin that loads info into my computer after every run but to be honest it's more technical. I use it more for watching my pace and it's easier to see on my wrist rather than on my arm

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

It's a nice flat course, the wind can be a bit strong on the beach section but it's good fun overall. The pacers are all Boardsies btw.

Pacing Mule

LSR time for me. On way to Phoenix park for a 7-8 miler. See you in 4 hours

ncmc

Morning all! So weekly check in time! I had a good week last week, I am really in a routine now and am not finding it tough to go out all anymore. Last week was a bit unusual as I was taking part of the Cork marathon relay, so I skipped my LSR last weekend to rest the legs for Monday.

Mon – 9.7 miles (marathon) – 80 mins
Tues – Rest
Wed - Rest
Thurs – 4.15 miles – 37.51 mins
Fri – 5 miles – 44.43 mins
Sat – 6.65 miles – 61 mins
Sun – Rest

So all in all a good week, this is my first week breaking 25 miles, so I really feel like I’m on my way!

rasher_m

Mr Slow wrote: »

rasher_m wrote: »

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

It's a nice flat course, the wind can be a bit strong on the beach section but it's good fun overall. The pacers are all Boardsies btw.

Cheers, yeah im still not sure if i want to run this. im feeling like its s bit early to be racing half marathons plus i wont get a decent lsr in the week before if im doing the 5 mile race series. any thoughts?

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

Cheers, yeah im still not sure if i want to run this. im feeling like its s bit early to be racing half marathons plus i wont get a decent lsr in the week before if im doing the 5 mile race series. any thoughts?

Nothing to say you have to race it, run it as an LSR, no time pressure and all the benefits of race atmosphere and adrenaline. Plus you'll feel great finishing so strong when those around you are on their last legs.

miguelk

distance (pace)

2.5 (easy 9.51) / 3 (MP 8:51) / 2.5 (easy 9:50) / 5.5 (lsr 10:17)

13.5 miles this week, feeling good. Got through it ok. The weekday runs were handy enough but found the lsr a little tougher this week in the heat yesterday.

I want to build up to the race series 5 mile and although this week is a step-back week in the spring training program I joined it late enough so I may push on as I need to get my mileage up bit by bit for week one of the program (N2-19m). I'm going to maintain my target 9min/mile MP for the moment and see how I get on in the 5 mile race. If I have to cut back then so be its hard to tell until my milage goes up a bit.

Haven't broadcast that I'm doing it yet to anyone, pretty similar reasons as discussed by the other novices recently - mostly because I want to get stuck into the program and see how I get on, also because its a personal challenge at the moment, and its going ok, so for the time being I'll keep it that way.

So the plan for the week is: 3e / 4mp / 3e / 7lsr = 17 Miles.

Must say I'm feeling really good (not just physically, overall), great buzz about meeting you're targets and covering the miles. Glued to the thread hearing other novices updates and advice given. Keep up the good work and keep the updates coming!

Runchick

zooming wrote: »

When you put in the date of your marathon it automatically starts 18 weeks before, in our case June 25, but you can log a run into the journal at anytime, if you want to run 4 miles instead of 3 you can just carry on and hit done once you have stopped and all your run info will be logged. I like it and it gives you tips everyday too, some of the other apps are harder to work! But I'm impressed with this one. I also have a garmin that loads info into my computer after every run but to be honest it's more technical. I use it more for watching my pace and it's easier to see on my wrist rather than on my arm

Sounds like its worth a go! I was gonna print out the plan and stick it on the fridge and write in times and changes, but its probably time to enter 2012 and do things a bit more sophisticatedly!!

Pacing Mule

12k done in 1 hour 20 minutes. Struggled towards the end and pace dropped back a bit from the first half of the run but happy enough to have extended my longest run record.

Mr Slow

When I was reaching mile markers for the first time in training (ie 13/15) I had a print out of the course and would mark in every week how far I had gotten, great for motivation.

ncmc

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

dazza21ie

ncmc wrote: »

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

I wouldn't just look at the last few weeks in isolation. By the end of week 12 by my calculations you would have done 44 more miles on Novice 2. Plus by the end of the plan you have the benefit of 11 pace runs (maybe 12 if Half is run at MP). The extra mileage and effort for pace runs will no doubt take its toll.

rasher_m

ncmc wrote: »

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

The LSR's are longer for Novice 2 so that looks to be the reason.

Younganne

Pace runs are tougher on the body and take longer to recover from than slower runs and thats why the mileage is different...the only advice i would give is to pick a plan and stick with it, don't add extra miles because you're feeling good etc...the plans are designed to get you to the start line un-injured, so if you go chopping and changing them it may lead to injury!

ncmc

Younganne wrote: »

Pace runs are tougher on the body and take longer to recover from than slower runs and thats why the mileage is different...the only advice i would give is to pick a plan and stick with it, don't add extra miles because you're feeling good etc...the plans are designed to get you to the start line un-injured, so if you go chopping and changing them it may lead to injury!

Thanks Younganne, I think I am going to go with Novice 2, it seems to be a better fit for me with where I am mileage wise at the moment. Bar the pace runs and an extra mile or two on the LSR, it really isn't much different. I presume a pace run just means marathon pace and not any faster?