Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

RunningKing

Super stuff Duzzie!
Do you take any gels or energy drink during the run?

menoscemo

dechol wrote: »

Can anyone tell me What pace do the five hour pacers run at ?

11.26/mile or 7.06/KM.

sweep22

I should mention that I also failed to complete the 18 miler a few weeks ago when something similar happened.

Anyway thanks for the positivity folks. I wrote that post when I felt like total crap earlier. Maybe I'll just have to come to terms with the fact that I will be finishing a lot slower than what my Half marathon time would suggest.
It feels like the only thing that the people I know (read: non-runners) seem to care about is what time I'll finish it in. I suppose bragging rights is not a good reason to be doing it anyway. I started doing this whole thing for myself and dammit even if it takes me all day I'm going to finish it.

Gavlor wrote: »

If you let us know your pre lsr preparation (ie from 2or3 days out) then we may be able to pass on some tips. I went from a nightmare 14 miler 5 weeks from my last marathon in June to finishing sub 3.30 on the day. Preparation is key.

With regards to LSR preparation, I sip water all day for 3 days before. I eat pretty clean, with pasta the night before. I've been getting mostly decent 8 hour sleeps since I started training. On the day, I usually drink somewhere between 500ml and 1l of water and I take one high5 Isogel. I don't foam roll or go crazy on the stretching since I don't feel that I have any issues on that front..

Pacing Mule

Hi guys

I've updated our sheet for next weeks runs.

I've also added another sheet which may be of interest. It's basically a sheet that you can fill in (if you want to of course) if you're planning to run with any of the pace groups. My idea here is it might make sense motivation wise on the day if the members of the group here know each other in advance as being aiming for the same time / running in the same group. This would be completely seperate to Blockics idea to make ourselves recognisable in general.

Pacing Mule

Ok guys I'm now out with cap in hand asking for some advice.

Most here have just completed their 20 mile LSR and are now heading into taper. However I'm only starting off again trying to get back from injury (an injury that is still there all be it not a stress fracture)

Total running this week: 5K (and it was a struggle)
Longest LSR so far: 16 miles

I'd appreciate any thoughts / advice on a training plan for next 3 weeks. I'm caught in two minds on what to do - if I build back up gradually (which I think I need to as I'm not recovered enough to be diving straight back in) to a LSR of 20 miles I'll be doing it the week before the marathon - and basically having no taper at all. If on the other hand I join in the taper now I will have been weeks away from my last LSR which was also 4 miles shorter than the plan would like my max LSR to be.

ncmc

Had a fantastic 20 mile run today, I'm totally buzzing! Was doing the Cork to Cobh race which is 15 miles and thanks to Meno's advice, decided to do my 5 extra miles before rather than after the race (although I saw a good few people turn and come back at the end of the race so I'd say I wasn't the only one doing 20 miles). So I drove into Cork city, registered and did 5 miles round the city which was a real treat as I normally run on boring roads with nothing to look at! I was doing a fairly sensible 9.40 pace ( my pmp is 9 mins). Did a couple of laps at the start line while waiting for the race to start.

So for the race itself, I started off at my sensible lsr pace and I really intended to stick to it... Then the 60 year olds started to pass me, then the 70 year olds, when a man who was 75 if he was a day passed me, my pride kicked in and I had to go for it. So I ended up doing about 14 miles of my 20 at pmp ( or even a bit faster if I'm being honest). But my god I felt fantastic! Not a bother on me, felt strong the whole way through, no aches, no pains, no blisters! Felt I was hardly breaking a sweat for a lot of it! Walked through one water station (cups grrrr!) and had a stretch at another. Only had one gel and a packet of sports jellies. I gunned it for the last mile and can honestly say I've never felt better during a run. Could I have run another 6 miles? Definitely. Could I have maintained that pace? Quite possibly. I know it was silly to set out so fast, but it was just one of those days when everything felt right. I can only pray I have another day like that on the 29th.

You know Sweep, I had a crap 19 mile run 2 weeks ago. Had the remains of a stomach bug and had all the symptoms you described. Have my confidence a huge knock. Then I had that great run today and I feel on top of the world again! Only you can decide what you want to do, but I think it would be a shame to pull out at this stage unless you are forced through injury or something. Think it would leave it very hard to attempt another one.

You know, I was just thinking, days like today are what it's all about. It makes all the long, painful, lonely hours running through heat and cold and dark nights and early mornings worth it. Judging by how happy I am this evening, you are going to have to scrape me off cloud nine on the 29th. I honestly can't wait!

menoscemo

Great run ncmc, doing 14 miles @ PMP will do you no harm at all. I'd say it will only have a positive physical and psychological benefit. Just don't be too tempted to go out fast on the big day- stick to the pace group and you'll surely break 4 hrs on the day.

Murph_D

Great running ncmc, sounds like a day to remember. I've a feeling I'd have reacted the same way to being passed out at the beginning. Sometimes you just have to floor it. Well done.

Runchick

Wow ncmc sounds like an amazing run, you've been so consistent with the training and it's definitely paying off for you, you'll fly round the course on 29th!!

RunningKing

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Ok guys I'm now out with cap in hand asking for some advice.

Most here have just completed their 20 mile LSR and are now heading into taper. However I'm only starting off again trying to get back from injury (an injury that is still there all be it not a stress fracture)

Total running this week: 5K (and it was a struggle)
Longest LSR so far: 16 miles

I'd appreciate any thoughts / advice on a training plan for next 3 weeks. I'm caught in two minds on what to do - if I build back up gradually (which I think I need to as I'm not recovered enough to be diving straight back in) to a LSR of 20 miles I'll be doing it the week before the marathon - and basically having no taper at all. If on the other hand I join in the taper now I will have been weeks away from my last LSR which was also 4 miles shorter than the plan would like my max LSR to be.

might help.
http://www.runningplanet.com/training/injured-during-marathon-training-adjusments.html

ncmc

menoscemo wrote: »

Great run ncmc, doing 14 miles @ PMP will do you no harm at all. I'd say it will only have a positive physical and psychological benefit. Just don't be too tempted to go out fast on the big day- stick to the pace group and you'll surely break 4 hrs on the day.

I definitely felt it was a massive confidence boost today. Even on other lsr's when I felt good after it, it would always be in the back of my mind that I would have to go further and faster. Today was the first time where I felt I could have done the full lsr at pmp. But yes, will def be sticking with the pacers on the day. I know starting out too fast is one of the biggest mistakes you can make. I can always push on a bit if I'm feeling strong at the end!

ncmc

Runchick wrote: »

Wow ncmc sounds like an amazing run, you've been so consistent with the training and it's definitely paying off for you, you'll fly round the course on 29th!!

Thanks Runchick! And congrats on getting your own 20 miles done, that's no small feat when you were so injured!

Gavlor

sweep22 wrote: »

I should mention that I also failed to complete the 18 miler a few weeks ago when something similar happened.

Anyway thanks for the positivity folks. I wrote that post when I felt like total crap earlier. Maybe I'll just have to come to terms with the fact that I will be finishing a lot slower than what my Half marathon time would suggest.
It feels like the only thing that the people I know (read: non-runners) seem to care about is what time I'll finish it in. I suppose bragging rights is not a good reason to be doing it anyway. I started doing this whole thing for myself and dammit even if it takes me all day I'm going to finish it.

Gavlor wrote: »

If you let us know your pre lsr preparation (ie from 2or3 days out) then we may be able to pass on some tips. I went from a nightmare 14 miler 5 weeks from my last marathon in June to finishing sub 3.30 on the day. Preparation is key.

With regards to LSR preparation, I sip water all day for 3 days before. I eat pretty clean, with pasta the night before. I've been getting mostly decent 8 hour sleeps since I started training. On the day, I usually drink somewhere between 500ml and 1l of water and I take one high5 Isogel. I don't foam roll or go crazy on the stretching since I don't feel that I have any issues on that front..

Me thinks you could be right about reducing the pace. Getting to the start of a marathon is a huge achievement in itself. As has been previously said here, enjoy the day, enjoy the experience. No point going thru hell. The half marathon conversion times aren't always spot on. Too late for this marathon but have you considered a protein shake after your runs? It would help with both leg strength and recovery

career_move

Runchick/ncmc/Duzzie - fantastic running there. Am delighted for ye

Sweep - sorry yours didn't go so well but you are absolutely FORBIDDEN to quit when you have come so far. Nobody would do a good run with just 2 hrs sleep! So head up, miles are in the legs now and we'll all be fresh as after taper

I had a brilliant run today in Athlone. It was so much fun and so well organised. Got a really nice t-shirt. Loads of fruit and sweets at all the stations and the water was really cold Met Blocky....first time he walked straight past me even though I was roaring his name and then saw Aimann and jcsmum who were pacing 4 hrs. After the start met racheljev and ran with her. We talked the whole way....and I mean pretty much non stop. I'm sure at times she was thinking 'will you shut up' but was too polite to say so The miles flew by. We were behind the pacers until somewhere round halfway and it got a bit short of room but we kept ourselves around 9.30m/m pace. Took 3 gels at 5,10 and 15 miles. Seemed a nice course but I was pretty busy talking so can't remember too much of it. There was a nasty hill around 19 miles and I was glad I've done lots of hill training cause a lot of people were walking. I pushed on from racheljev there and I finished really strongly in 3.06 so happy happy happy out:D Legs feel good now. Didn't bother waiting for the massage that was offered but I put on a pair of compression tights after my shower and legs feel great now. Only one grumble and that is......my blister is back

Trampas

sweep. everyone has a bad day. it is impossible to run 70+ runs in a plan and not have a bad day. especially on a few hours sleep. Try and forget about it and move on.

PM - maybe the top runners on here can offer some more advice but i know you wont do anything stupid to risk missing the day.

Remember all it is a mental challenge as well as physical

ncmc

career_move wrote: »

Runchick/ncmc/Duzzie - fantastic running there. Am delighted for ye

Sweep - sorry yours didn't go so well but you are absolutely FORBIDDEN to quit when you have come so far. Nobody would do a good run with just 2 hrs sleep! So head up, miles are in the legs now and we'll all be fresh as after taper

I had a brilliant run today in Athlone. It was so much fun and so well organised. Got a really nice t-shirt. Loads of fruit and sweets at all the stations and the water was really cold Met Aimann and jcsmum who were pacing 4 hrs and then after the start met racheljev. We talked the whole way....and I mean pretty much non stop. I'm sure at times she was thinking 'will you shut up' but was too polite to say so The miles flew by. We were behind the pacers until somewhere round halfway and it got a bit short of room but we kept ourselves around 9.30m/m pace. Took 3 gels at 5,10 and 15 miles. Seemed a nice course but I was pretty busy talking so can't remember too much of it. There was a nasty hill around 19 miles and I was glad I've done lots of hill training cause a lot of people were walking. I pushed on from racheljev there and I finished really strongly in 3.06 so happy happy happy out:D Legs feel good now. Didn't bother waiting for the massage that was offered but I put on a pair of compression tights after my shower and legs feel great now. Only one grumble and that is......my blister is back

Nice one Career Move, sounds like you had a great day. I really hope I get to meet some of you guys on the 29th, would really make the time fly if there were people to chat to. Glad you had no ill effects from the horse accident yday!

Duzzie

career_move wrote: »

Sweep - sorry yours didn't go so well but you are absolutely FORBIDDEN to quit when you have come so far. Nobody would do a good run with just 2 hrs sleep! So head up, miles are in the legs now and we'll all be fresh as after taper

I agree. I was so close to throwing in the towel but I'm really glad I didn't. I would have regretted not giving it a go a least. I may still struggle and a may not even get it done if I have a bad day but unless you give it a go, you will never do it. All the hard work will pay off in the end. If you dont make at least you will have given it your best shot. If you just walk away from it, there is a good chance that you will regret it as you never know how it'll go on the day. As I read early on in the thread, trust your training programme.

career_move

Oh was kinda embarrassed I was complaining so much yesterday cause when I woke up this morning I felt great

Duzzie

RunningKing wrote: »

Super stuff Duzzie!
Do you take any gels or energy drink during the run?

On previous runs, i had been taking 2 gels, today I used 4. I had considered that I might be hitting the wall but I wouldn't expect that to happen as early as 22-24km. Also the dizziness, light-headedness and chills pointed more towards dehydration. I would have only had 750ml in a drinks bottle which is a lot less than I have read should be taken. Today I had 2 litres on my 32k run

I didnt take any sports drinks but the water did contain dissolvable electrolyte tablet to replace those lost through sweat.

tang1

career_move wrote: »

Runchick/ncmc/Duzzie - fantastic running there. Am delighted for ye

Sweep - sorry yours didn't go so well but you are absolutely FORBIDDEN to quit when you have come so far. Nobody would do a good run with just 2 hrs sleep! So head up, miles are in the legs now and we'll all be fresh as after taper

I had a brilliant run today in Athlone. It was so much fun and so well organised. Got a really nice t-shirt. Loads of fruit and sweets at all the stations and the water was really cold Met Aimann and jcsmum who were pacing 4 hrs and then after the start met racheljev. We talked the whole way....and I mean pretty much non stop. I'm sure at times she was thinking 'will you shut up' but was too polite to say so The miles flew by. We were behind the pacers until somewhere round halfway and it got a bit short of room but we kept ourselves around 9.30m/m pace. Took 3 gels at 5,10 and 15 miles. Seemed a nice course but I was pretty busy talking so can't remember too much of it. There was a nasty hill around 19 miles and I was glad I've done lots of hill training cause a lot of people were walking. I pushed on from racheljev there and I finished really strongly in 3.06 so happy happy happy out:D Legs feel good now. Didn't bother waiting for the massage that was offered but I put on a pair of compression tights after my shower and legs feel great now. Only one grumble and that is......my blister is back

Great running as always, good confidence boost going into DCM.

menoscemo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Ok guys I'm now out with cap in hand asking for some advice.

Most here have just completed their 20 mile LSR and are now heading into taper. However I'm only starting off again trying to get back from injury (an injury that is still there all be it not a stress fracture)

Total running this week: 5K (and it was a struggle)
Longest LSR so far: 16 miles

I'd appreciate any thoughts / advice on a training plan for next 3 weeks. I'm caught in two minds on what to do - if I build back up gradually (which I think I need to as I'm not recovered enough to be diving straight back in) to a LSR of 20 miles I'll be doing it the week before the marathon - and basically having no taper at all. If on the other hand I join in the taper now I will have been weeks away from my last LSR which was also 4 miles shorter than the plan would like my max LSR to be.

PM I think you'd be wise to put your dilemma on the main forum and see what the top guys and coaches might say...

rasher_m

I ran my lsr today with Young Anne, Liz and Dave. It was an early start for me meeting up at 8.30, I would normally do an lsr in the afternoon.
We ran a bit of the Phoenix park and then some of the course as far as Crumlin and back for a bit more in the Phoenix park. Then they threw the Kyber hill in at about 20 miles and it was very tough for me but I survived. 22 miles in all and I finished it at about 3.44. In the last mile Liz and Anne motored on a bit while I shuffled along behind them.
The company was great and the weather was as well. Thank god its taper now.

ultraman1

Duzzie wrote: »

I've not posted in a while as I have been going through a crisis of confidence in my ability to do the full marathon. I have been struggling with distances over the half. My run 28k run 2-weeks ago was a disaster, got to 22k fine, then my legs just died and I had no energy. Ended up walking 2 of the last 6 kms, by the time I got home, my legs felt like 10 tonne weights, I felt dizzy and light headed and I was shivering, even though it wasn't cold. As a result I was very down and did a lot of soul searching wondering if I had bitten off more than I could chew with this one. I wend back and looked through what I was doing to see if I could find out where I was going wrong, as I was sure there was something given that the first 21kms of my runs were going fine and were very comfortable. I came to the conclusion that my problem was that I wasn't drinking enough on my runs. I was trying to carry my drinks on my run which limited how much I had with me. In one last desperate attempt to see if this was my problem, I set out on my 32km LSR this morning after stashing 330m bottles of water laced with high5 electrolyte tablets at 5k intervals along my route, same as the water stop frequency on the Dublin Marathon. I wasn't entirely convinced but was determined to see if the lack of liquid was leading to me becoming dehydrated resulting in me falling off the cliff.

First 20kms were pretty much the same as previous runs, very comfortable with no ill effects. Once I hit 20kms, I ran on, waiting for the familiar sudden empty feeling in my legs, nothing. Got to 24kms, still nothing, my legs were starting to feel tired but didn't feel that they were giving up on me. Got to 29km where I hit the first of 2 killer hills that I have at the end of my runs, felt ok so decided to give it a go and try to run it. It was hard going and my legs were complaining but still no cliff. Then at 31kms I got to the second, steeper hill, that always gets me. I wasn't going to give up and walk now after my run had gone so well, so I forced myself to run up it. I was so glad to get to the top of it for the last 500m downhill stretch to my finish. I am thrilled that I managed to run the whole 32km without any walking stops, had a couple of pit stops due to the extra drink I was having but other than that i ran.

I finished about 2 hours ago and my legs are stiff but there is no sign of the empty lead weighted legs, lighted headedness or dizziness so I think I may have solved my problem, just a pity I couldn't have solved it earlier and not gone through all the heartache. I am delighted after today's run and have a renewed sense of optimism that I might actually be able to do this after all.

Now for the taper madness that I have heard so much about. Sorry for the ramble and thanks for reading this far

well done D,,,see u at the finish in a few weeks

Alanm

Bit of a confession:
I ran Athlone 3/4 today with a mate and we got the pacing horribly wrong. I had decided last night to try going out at around 5:30 / km with the aim of finishing in around or just under 3 hours which would've been fairly comfortable and a good training run. For some reason, once a gun goes off at the start I lose most sensible thoughts about my race pace and we went off stupidly quick. Had some pretty minor issues with my calf around the half way which did make me cop on for a while, but that didn't last long and after some stretching everything felt ok so we pushed on. Actually felt pretty good at the end and kinda thought I had the full in me if I had to - although probably would've slowed a bit. Took gels every 4 miles (at the water stations) which worked very well for me.

split times:
0:53:18
0:56:09
0:54:17 (Total: just under 2:44)

Overall, pretty happy with the run, but annoyed with myself for not being more sensible. Now having stupid thoughts about trying to follow the 3:30 pacers on the day - this a really bad idea?

The race was brilliantly organised and everything went really well from what I could see.

Pacing Mule

menoscemo wrote: »

PM I think you'd be wise to put your dilemma on the main forum and see what the top guys and coaches might say...

Good idea.

Done

sureitsgrand

First off, I'd just like to echo a lot of what has been said here and on the Athlone 3/4 thread. Great race, well organised, good banter, good people, PERFECT weather conditions......Pity my race didn't go as well!

Truth be told I'm neither delighted or pissed off with my performance...In fact, it's probably exactly whatI should have expected.....

Last race I did was the Dublin half and it was my best ever....Came home in 1:53 averaging out at 8:40 min/mi. Delira and excira. I know I was borderline to say the least, but I thought 4 hours might just be good reachable if training went according to plan. Unfortunately, training did not go to plan. As I wrote last week, life got in the way and I went ten days without a run - at the business end of training too. Dragged myself out for an 18 miler last weekend and feck it was tough...Lot of walking breaks, but did it in 3:30.

Last week all I managed was a 10 mile before today...and that was on Friday and I ran at 9:45 min/mi. So I went out today with the idea of following that helpful pacing chart for people with 4 hours in mind - 10:10 first quarter, 9:38 for second two. Went swimmingly at first. Felt strong, fresh, bit of chat with some others (was first race without earphones and loved it!). The second quarter went even better and was faster than the first - right on schedule.

But then....

I don't know what it is, but when I get to 15 my body just tells me to give up. I had nooo problems at all up to that point, be it breathing or heavy legs or anything else....But i went for a 9:45 mile to miles that were all in the 12's and 13's. Lots of walking breaks taken...I rallied for the final straight (I'm a vain bastard!) and probably looked fresh coming over the line, but the previous 4 miles killed me. I couldn't help thinking that if this was the full I would have had over 10 miles to go when I started blowing up...It scared the bejaysus out of me. And the wall?! If that wasn't the wall I was trying to walk around I shudder to think what it's like!

Did a bit of analysis with the aul Garmin and see that my average min/mi was 10:38, which actually doesn't look that bad, but target of four is waaaaaaaay out the window and I'm not even sure 4:30 is achievable now (according to MacMillan it isn't anyway). I know, know, know time shouldn't really be at the forefront of my mind for a first marathon.....but, well, tbh, it is and it will be!

So, hopefully the taper will work its magic, and maybe the crowds combined with my vanity will also play a part, but I really really really wanna go under 4:30 for this yoke. I'll be pleased with that.

Advantage of today was that I became realistic about my time. I also learned that I have to pace even slower and try to avoid that horribleness I got at 15....If I can push that back to 20 I'll survive. I think.

Lessons (hopefully!) learned.

No going back now!

Well done to everyone on their races and LSRs - we're on the home straight now!

career_move

Did you take any gels or that sureitsgrand?

sureitsgrand

Yeah, had 3. High 5. Felt the kick for the first two anyway.

I'm putting down the fading to missing the training. Think I'm 70 or so miles behind on Hal Higdon which ain't good. But hopefully some more consistent running and taper freshness will help for the big day!

Well done on your run!

blockic

Congrats to everyone on their runs this weekend, sounds like the majority went well and for those that didnt go great, that experience will help come 29th so all is not lost!

Athlone was glorious today was a nice sunny cool crisp morning!

Bumped into career_move for 2 mins before the start before we went finding pacers.

My plan all week was to follow the 3.30 marathon pacer. Of course once I got to the start line all that went out the window and once again i just went with the flow!! :rolleyes: Dynamic strategy I like to call it!:D

Started in front of the pacer and took first half of the race easy in around 8.20 min/miles. I was kept occupied by about 150 people passing me while I thought to myself about turning the tables on them at the later of the race (which happened for the many).

I was also keeping an eye out for a signpost for the famous village (or town?) of Tang. Sure enough at around halfway Tang was signposted 3km in the opposite direction. Sorry for not diverting to it tang1!

Think I also might of seen you Alanm stretching said calf outside a house around the halfway mark with another guy as I was past 1/4 checkpoint on a similar time as yourself..was that you?

Anyway back to the race...second half I then upped it to around 8.05min/ miles and slotted in with a group of people going a similar pace. Got on quite well and kept that pace to the end. But that hill at 18m did almost take it out of me, just about found a second wind!!

Sprinted down from the entrance of the hotel to finish in 2:39:21.

Happy enough with the time and I had more in the legs in the end so hopeful of keeping the 8min/miles up on the 29th for the full distance. We shall see!!

Race and organisation was excellent, will definitely do it again!


Distance: 19.66m
Overall Pace: 8:05min/miles.
Time: 2:39:21

Been jealous all weekend of people doing there LSRs yesterday but now i get to say it... TAPER TIME!!!

And it could not of come any sooner, dont think I would last another long week!

blockic

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I've also added another sheet which may be of interest. It's basically a sheet that you can fill in (if you want to of course) if you're planning to run with any of the pace groups. My idea here is it might make sense motivation wise on the day if the members of the group here know each other in advance as being aiming for the same time / running in the same group. This would be completely seperate to Blockics idea to make ourselves recognisable in general.

Great idea PM! You forgot the 3hr pace band though? :D

Best of luck with the recovery, up the milage slowly!