Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Plus 10

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) No never raced
• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do! Not sure yet
• How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant Nil - play some soccer once a week - fitness level moderate
• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Sub 4 sounds good - based on what I hear but finish is the aim
• How many days a week can you train? 3 days a week starting next week
• Why are you running this marathon? Improve general fitness, try out running & do the marathon once

Am I mad - no training to date (plan to start next week) - late 30's moderate fitness - is it possible to complete it this year?

I have signed up for the race series

Is there any running clubs/groups in the south dublin region - Templeogue/Rathfarnham

Dilbert75

macinalli wrote: »

That's fine for casual running, but if you're taking on a marathon it's not a good idea. Your weekend runs will gradually get longer, but if you're only doing 2 other runs per week you won't have a base to absorb this training and could easily pick up injuries....if you have the time, then you should think about getting some extra runs in.

Based on my very limited experience, I'd have to second this advice. I have just completed/survived Edinburgh Marathon (my first) having recovered from 6 weeks of injury and reverted to a 4:45+ training plan, which had me running only 3 times a week. I can honestly say that it wasn't enough - I hadn't enough in the tank to get me through when the going got tough and, although I was happy to finish in less than 5 hours under the circumstances (strong sunshine, little breeze for most of the time, no pacers to follow) I would have preferred to have known I was stronger setting out and I believe it would have stood to me. My wife was running 5 days a week & cross-training in the gym and she did 3:43, also her first marathon. You get what you train for.

Pacing Mule

Plus 10 wrote: »

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) No never raced
• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do! Not sure yet
• How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant Nil - play some soccer once a week - fitness level moderate
• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Sub 4 sounds good - based on what I hear but finish is the aim
• How many days a week can you train? 3 days a week starting next week
• Why are you running this marathon? Improve general fitness, try out running & do the marathon once

Am I mad - no training to date (plan to start next week) - late 30's moderate fitness - is it possible to complete it this year?

I have signed up for the race series

Is there any running clubs/groups in the south dublin region - Templeogue/Rathfarnham

Hi there,

Just for the record I'm a novice runner myself so don't take this as experienced advice.

I think a lot of this depends on your definition of moderate fitness. For example Hal Higdons novice supreme training program is a 30 week program leading up to a marathon. You'd have to be capable of running week 7 of this plan at the moment to follow it in time for this years DCM. When I started running I wouldn't have been able to run week 1 of this program. Playing soccer though once a week means you would more than likely be at a far more advanced stage than complete beginner.

You have to factor in the potential for injury pushing too far too soon. I'd also say that 3 days a week simply won't be enough to build endurance / fitness for a marathon in that short a time frame. All the plans out there including for novices are 4 - 5 days. And to hit a sub 4 would take a bit more commitment than 3 days IMO.

Only you know your own body though and the race series is a good place to start to see how things stack up. The only issue though is entry for this years marathon will close relatively shortly so you've got to make your mind up sooner than later.

If you do go ahead though I wish you all the best ! Welcome to the thread.

Mr Slow

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Hi there,

Just for the record I'm a novice runner myself so don't take this as experienced advice.

I think a lot of this depends on your definition of moderate fitness. For example Hal Higdons novice supreme training program is a 30 week program leading up to a marathon. You'd have to be capable of running week 7 of this plan at the moment to follow it in time for this years DCM. When I started running I wouldn't have been able to run week 1 of this program. Playing soccer though once a week means you would more than likely be at a far more advanced stage than complete beginner.

You have to factor in the potential for injury pushing too far too soon. I'd also say that 3 days a week simply won't be enough to build endurance / fitness for a marathon in that short a time frame. All the plans out there including for novices are 4 - 5 days. And to hit a sub 4 would take a bit more commitment than 3 days IMO.

Only you know your own body though and the race series is a good place to start to see how things stack up. The only issue though is entry for this years marathon will close relatively shortly so you've got to make your mind up sooner than later.

If you do go ahead though I wish you all the best ! Welcome to the thread.

+1 on the above.

Plus 10, with respect you really shouldn't be attempting the marathon this year, best advice would be to get out there running 3/4 times a week and slowly build up to 20/25 miles per week over the rest of this year and then enter an 18 week program. You'll have a far better day out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIBuREwNur4

miguelk

Without opening a can of worms and going into a running shoe's brand war I've a question regarding using different running shoe's for training and different shoe's for racing. Not on the brand or which to use, but as a novice - should I be using the same running shoe for both training and race days?

For what reason(s) would experienced runners be changing their shoes come race day? Is it just to shave a few seconds off their times?

What would you recommend for a novice - stick to the same shoe's* for training and for the marathon (and other races)?
(assuming you've got your gait analysed/ and selected you're shoe's accordingly).

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

Without opening a can of worms and going into a running shoe's brand war I've a question regarding using different running shoe's for training and different shoe's for racing. Not on the brand or which to use, but as a novice - should I be using the same running shoe for both training and race days?

For what reason(s) would experienced runners be changing their shoes come race day? Is it just to shave a few seconds off their times?

What would you recommend for a novice - stick to the same shoe's* for training and for the marathon (and other races)?
(assuming you've got your gait analysed/ and selected you're shoe's accordingly).

Whatever you use on your LSR's should be used on the day. In the circumstances where people might change their runners for racing, the only instance I can think of would be changing into a racing flat for 5k's or shorter having worn them in speed sessions but for marathons, stick to your long run training shoe.

Pacing Mule

Just back from a 5 mile run in 48:13 (on the exact 5 mile course for the upcoming race series) - a new personal best but what a strange run.

I didn't really fancy it today. Felt tired and sore from the last few days running. Actually had to remind myself tomorrow was a rest day to give myself some sort of carrot to go out. Went out - didn't enjoy the first couple of k at all. Stopped to walk after 2k without even realising I was doing it. Even thought about taking a short cut and cutting the run in half. Then a bout of stubborness took over and I went off down the kyber and onto the bitch of a hill back up from it without stopping driven by anger more than anything else although I did end up stopping for a quick walk after I got up the hill. That one was planned though

Suddenly it was 6k and I realised that despite all the messing around I was acutally ahead of my PB time so I made an impromptu decision to push hard over the last couple of K knowing that a personal best was achievable. Ended up taking 47 seconds off my 5 mile time but the run didn't really deserve it. :pac:

I think it's a sign of the extra mileage both taking it's toll (the tiredness and soreness) but at the same time improving my all round pace / fitness.

shortie_chik

My motivation is super high at the moment, as I've run 3 miles faster than ever twice this week! Well not fast for other people, but for a snail like me it's an achievement. 29:12 on Tuesday and 28:36 today. Previous best would have been 30:08, but more typically 31:30 - 32:30. So I suppose I am seeing results from my training already as I could never have kept that pace up a few weeks ago!

Gotta celebrate my little victories & remember them on the crappy days. Actually looking forward to my gentle LSR this weekend! Every day I go out, I'm getting one day closer to my goal

dazza21ie

shortie_chik wrote: »

My motivation is super high at the moment, as I've run 3 miles faster than ever twice this week! Well not fast for other people, but for a snail like me it's an achievement. 29:12 on Tuesday and 28:36 today. Previous best would have been 30:08, but more typically 31:30 - 32:30. So I suppose I am seeing results from my training already as I could never have kept that pace up a few weeks ago!

Gotta celebrate my little victories & remember them on the crappy days. Actually looking forward to my gentle LSR this weekend! Every day I go out, I'm getting one day closer to my goal

Congrats on the PBs. I always look at it that the only person you are racing against is yourself. Took me a while earlier this year to get under 30 mins for 5k. Its really nice to take chunks out of your time. The longer mileage really does help in keeping up your pace in the shorter runs.

Don't make the mistake that alot (including myself) have and try and run a PB every day.

shortie_chik

dazza21ie wrote: »

Congrats on the PBs. I always look at it that the only person you are racing against is yourself.

Don't make the mistake that alot (including myself) have and try and run a PB every day.

Thanks! I think getting to 3 miles in under 30 mins is enough achievements for the moment. For the next while I'll just work on getting more comfortable with that, rather than keeping aiming to get my time faster & faster.

I was probably just lucky to have two "good" days in a row. Next week could be a "tired" week or a "grumpy" week, so I don't expect to have so much motivation those days, but I'll just try to remember this week when I need encouragement.

Mr Slow

Have a look at this trailer, the whole documentary is broken into sections on You Tube but I found it great to watch leading up to my first marathon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8XSit8XyeM

shortie_chik

Mr Slow wrote: »

Have a look at this trailer, the whole documentary is broken into sections on You Tube but I found it great to watch leading up to my first marathon.

Wow! I will definitely watch this documentary! Some of the trailer scared the bejeebus out of me (the guy nearly collapsing approaching the finishing line) :eek:

The crowd scenes they look like they're heading out to battle. Was picturing Russell Crowe / Mel Gibson giving them a rousing speech to get them going!

ncmc

Mr Slow wrote: »

Have a look at this trailer, the whole documentary is broken into sections on You Tube but I found it great to watch leading up to my first marathon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8XSit8XyeM

Wow! I've goosebumps after watching that! Will def be checking out the full documentary.

Mccarti4

I was just going to follow the thread and the plan in silence but decided I might as well post in here for that extra little bit of motivation. Have signed up for the marathon and the race series so no going back now!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) A couple of 10ks PB was in the GIR this of 56mins

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do! No I just slow to a crawl on occassion

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant Run betweek 5-8k 3 or 4 times a week

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Sub 4.30 would be the dream but just hoping to get around in one piece and hopefully worry about times in future.

How many days a week can you train? 6

Why are you running this marathon? To prove to myself that I can do it. Also, lived in London for a few years and the marathon was always something I went out to watch every year but never had the courage to throw my hat in the ring (until now)

Dr Gradus

macinalli wrote: »

That's fine for casual running, but if you're taking on a marathon it's not a good idea. Your weekend runs will gradually get longer, but if you're only doing 2 other runs per week you won't have a base to absorb this training and could easily pick up injuries. IMO you should try and train 4-5 days per week; if those extra 2 days running are just an easy 20 minutes, then that's fine. Regular miles make a big difference - if you have the time, then you should think about getting some extra runs in.

Thanks so much for this advice. I'm defo gonna try and gt out 4-5 days a week.

Start that training programme in July and see how it goes.

As you say yourself, wouldn't want to pick up any injuries!

zooming

Advice needed!!!! As yet I am undecided if Im ready for Dublin 2012 full marathon, maybe you experts will help me decide if im capable! Last Sunday I ran 10 miles in 1hr 59, and I have been building my miles up slowly as I still have weight to lose (a stone) I am not sure if I would be better aiming for Dublin half marathon in September, and the VLM full in 2013. I currently run 3 times a week and do weights twice a week. Is Dublin within my grasp at this point? Im only training at 11.20 to 11.30 min miles..

menoscemo

zooming wrote: »

Advice needed!!!! As yet I am undecided if Im ready for Dublin 2012 full marathon, maybe you experts will help me decide if im capable! Last Sunday I ran 10 miles in 1hr 59, and I have been building my miles up slowly as I still have weight to lose (a stone) I am not sure if I would be better aiming for Dublin half marathon in September, and the VLM full in 2013. I currently run 3 times a week and do weights twice a week. Is Dublin within my grasp at this point? Im only training at 11.20 to 11.30 min miles..

The speed you are running at is irrelevant, for some people a good result would be under 3 hours, for others a good result would be under 6 hours.
In Dublin the course is open for 7 or 8 hours I think.

By already running 10 miles in training you are ahead of most novices in the group, whether you are ready or not is up to you. You are certainly in a position to complete the Novice Marathon Programme and complete the marathon.
If you have a specific time goal for the marathon (like under 4 hours) then that might be unrealisitc at this point and you may be better concentrating on getting faster and trying a marathon later down the line. It's really up to you and and what your goal is.

As for VLM 2013, do you have a place? It is not like DCM, you can't just register online. You have to either get a qualifying time or get lucky in the Ballot (which is already closed). You can get a charity place but that is very expensive and involves you raising €000's.

zooming

Hi,
I have put myself in the ballot for VLM so fingers crossed, I am going on holiday in July for 2 weeks and might not get the same level of running done as Im used to and I was afraid to fall behind, my goal is to finish, and would love to do in or around the 5 hours mark.

ncmc

zooming wrote: »

Hi,
I have put myself in the ballot for VLM so fingers crossed, I am going on holiday in July for 2 weeks and might not get the same level of running done as Im used to and I was afraid to fall behind, my goal is to finish, and would love to do in or around the 5 hours mark.

This is a worry of mine as well, only it’s worse in my case as my holidays are the first two weeks of September. I am a bit worried about keeping the training going during the crucial last 8 weeks while being on hols. I’ve jigged my training plan around as much as I can, but I will have one unavoidable long run, 18 miles, so it’s a big one. Not looking forward to attempting that in the heat and in an unfamiliar place. But I will just have to try and get on with it, try not to drink too much etc. On the plus side, we are going to Italy, so should be not shortage of pasta for carbo loading!

Anyone else go on holiday so close to the marathon? Any tips on how to deal with it?

jprender

Ok, I'm officially in


I'm surprised they are still calling it the National Lottery Dublin Marathon though. Obviously just an oversight.

Younganne

zooming wrote: »

Advice needed!!!! As yet I am undecided if Im ready for Dublin 2012 full marathon, maybe you experts will help me decide if im capable! Last Sunday I ran 10 miles in 1hr 59, and I have been building my miles up slowly as I still have weight to lose (a stone) I am not sure if I would be better aiming for Dublin half marathon in September, and the VLM full in 2013. I currently run 3 times a week and do weights twice a week. Is Dublin within my grasp at this point? Im only training at 11.20 to 11.30 min miles..

zooming as memo has already said speed is irrelevant. The aim of this thread is to get you fit enought to finish the marathon.... If you follow the program as its posted each week, starting on June 25th you will be well able to finish the marathon.
As for your 10m in 1.59, thats perfect LSR pace and this is an important factor in the training, keeping the LSR slow. Well done on getting to the 10m mark already.....
You should aim for the half marathon as part of you race preparation as it gives you a feel for the marathon and you get to try out gels, pacing, water stations, dealing with crowds etc!!!

At the moment you say you are running 3 days a week, you should try and build it up to 4 days over the next 3 weeks by adding an extra run.
take a look at our marathon plan if you haven't already and see whats involved.
As for going on holidays, you will surprise yourself as you will want to run.

ncmc wrote: »

This is a worry of mine as well, only it’s worse in my case as my holidays are the first two weeks of September. I am a bit worried about keeping the training going during the crucial last 8 weeks while being on hols. I’ve jigged my training plan around as much as I can, but I will have one unavoidable long run, 18 miles, so it’s a big one. Not looking forward to attempting that in the heat and in an unfamiliar place. But I will just have to try and get on with it, try not to drink too much etc. On the plus side, we are going to Italy, so should be not shortage of pasta for carbo loading!

Anyone else go on holiday so close to the marathon? Any tips on how to deal with it?

Don't worry about the 18m run, you might be able to make your planned 16m run 17m 2 weeks before on the plan and then make your 20m run a 19m run and that would have you covered. as for running on hols, when you have got that far in the plan you will go out for your runs and do as much as you can, but an odd missed session here and there won't make a big difference to you in the overall scheme of things.....relaxing and rest is also an important part of the plan..;)
and i wouldn't start carbo loading for the marathon in Sept though....:D

Younganne

Dr Gradus wrote: »

Thanks so much for this advice. I'm defo gonna try and gt out 4-5 days a week.

Start that training programme in July and see how it goes.

As you say yourself, wouldn't want to pick up any injuries!

Plan starts on June 25 and here is the first week so you can be build towards it and try to be able to do these distances in 3 weeks....

Mon | Tue | Wed | Thur | Fri | Sat | Sun
Rest | 3m | 3m | 3m | Rest |6m | Cross |

Cross training is walking, swimming, cycling etc, some activity that gets you moving but rests the running muscles!!

zooming

Thanks!!!! You know I just had lunch with a friend who is going to do it too, albeit alot faster than me so Im in!!! I have decided here and now that..wait for it...Im going to run my half marathon distance in San Francisco in July!
Gulp!!

Younganne

shortie_chik wrote: »

My motivation is super high at the moment, as I've run 3 miles faster than ever twice this week! Well not fast for other people, but for a snail like me it's an achievement. 29:12 on Tuesday and 28:36 today. Previous best would have been 30:08, but more typically 31:30 - 32:30. So I suppose I am seeing results from my training already as I could never have kept that pace up a few weeks ago!

Gotta celebrate my little victories & remember them on the crappy days. Actually looking forward to my gentle LSR this weekend! Every day I go out, I'm getting one day closer to my goal

Well done on the improvements in your fitness. You can see that the more you run the more comfortable the runs become.

However, Just be cautious that you are not running for a PB each time you go out as you will soon end up fed up and/or injured if you are running too hard. Remember your pace should be conversational pace so you should be able to talk and run at the same time. And as the mileage grows in the plan you will have to learn to hold the pace back even on days that you are feeling good as it all leads to the LSR at the weekends and not being too tired for them.

Younganne

zooming wrote: »

Thanks!!!! You know I just had lunch with a friend who is going to do it too, albeit alot faster than me so Im in!!! I have decided here and now that..wait for it...Im going to run my half marathon distance in San Francisco in July!
Gulp!!

What will the weather be like for that???

ncmc

Younganne wrote: »

Don't worry about the 18m run, you might be able to make your planned 16m run 17m 2 weeks before on the plan and then make your 20m run a 19m run and that would have you covered. as for running on hols, when you have got that far in the plan you will go out for your runs and do as much as you can, but an odd missed session here and there won't make a big difference to you in the overall scheme of things.....relaxing and rest is also an important part of the plan..;)
and i wouldn't start carbo loading for the marathon in Sept though....:D

Thanks Younganne, I probably am worrying about it a little too much. Hopefully I will be in the 'running zone' by Sept and it won't be a big effort to go out running, even on hols. I am choosing to ignore the last bit though, I do love that pasta and I intend to use the marathon as my excuse to eat as much as I can

zooming

Younganne wrote: »

What will the weather be like for that???

well i will go out really early, fortunately SF is not as warm as the rest of California! Its not a planned event, but I will do the distance

Marthastew

zooming wrote: »

well i will go out really early, fortunately SF is not as warm as the rest of California! Its not a planned event, but I will do the distance

San Fran is known for its hills so you will get a great workout, the temp should be fine early in the morning or late in the evening.

Make sure you sign up for DCM before you go then you'll remain focused while away. Good luck

Lucky you:D I'd love a trip to San Fran

Martin_ie2012

Hi there new to the thread, know im a bit late discovering it. Registered today to do the race series and DCM. Started running properly with structure in January. Havent run that many competetive races in terms of pb and distances my history is
Great Ireland run 2012 10k 57:37
Marlay Park 5k 28:11
Currently run 3-4 miles 3 times a week with a longer one at weekends usually 5 or 6 miles with no walking breaks.
Honestly will be happy to just finish Marathon this year as its my first but feel that under 5 is achievable.
Want to do marathon for the challenge and sense of achievement on completion.
Thanks and thanks for setting this thread up and all the advice you have given and will give over the coming months.

Younganne

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

Hi there new to the thread, know im a bit late discovering it. Registered today to do the race series and DCM. Started running properly with structure in January. Havent run that many competetive races in terms of pb and distances my history is
Great Ireland run 2012 10k 57:37
Marlay Park 5k 28:11
Currently run 3-4 miles 3 times a week with a longer one at weekends usually 5 or 6 miles with no walking breaks.
Honestly will be happy to just finish Marathon this year as its my first but feel that under 5 is achievable.
Want to do marathon for the challenge and sense of achievement on completion.
Thanks and thanks for setting this thread up and all the advice you have given and will give over the coming months.

Welcome to the thread...all the real fun will begin on 25th June..well 26th as the first day is a rest day;)