Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

dazza21ie

rasher_m wrote: »

Bloody pissed off...went out for a walk after the run with my sister and fell. i tripped over something and gave my knee and cheekbone a right aul bang. Knee is swolen so not sure if ive done any damage but might have to give the next few runs a miss.

Hard luck rasher, nightmare stuff. Take it easy and don't be too hard on yourself. Better this week than two weeks time.

Runchick

morann wrote: »

It is with great regret that I have decided to pull out of the marathon. My hip flexor simply won;t heal in time. I had a test run this Monday and was limping from 4 miles, so I am out.

I will let it heal and then start again and aim for a marathon in March in Tralee. This is their first event so would be great to get numbers down there:
http://www.traleemarathon.com/

A positive is that I have learned so much from my experience and for those interested here are some points (which you will have read but may not have really taken on board )

1. Listen to your body, if pains are getting worse then respond to them. Slow down if you have to or run less miles. Don;t become a slave to the training program. Your first goal is to reach the start line fit and ready.

2. Don;t kill yourself to reach the 20 miler. If you have reached 18 and for whatever reason your are struggling to hit the 20 miler, don;t ignore your taper, do your best to get quality runs in and listen to your body.

3. I became a slave to pace, I wanted to run every run at 9 m/mile or faster. This worked in that 9min/mile felt very comfortable and anything slower felt too slow. This was a mistake, I am only running a year and I clearly suffered from this approach. Make sure you run most of your runs slow. Force yourself to go slower.

4. I know the half is gone but maybe for next year: run the half at your goal marathon pace and not faster. I was obsessed with doing 1:50 (10 minutes faster than target marathon pace). I know now had I not pushed it so much I would probably be doing the marathon. The half was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

5. Cross train. Why kill yourself running all the time, do some bike work instead of one of your runs if you feel that you just cannot run so many days in the week.

I hope some of this helps.
See you next year!
Niall

Sorry to hear that Niall, but best of luck with the training for Tralee. I have come dangerously close to being in the same boat, having been injured twice, and missing 4 weeks of training a a result. I know this has been because of many of the reasons you mention, these points are invaluable advice for anyone training for their first marathon. You will be in great shape next time with all this experience behind you. You seem to be as hooked on this running business as many of us here, so see you for DCM 2013

rainbow kirby

ncmc wrote: »

It's a strange time to have it, it means all the training would have to be done over the winter

Tbh I think there's a lot to be said for racing in March/April, and I tend to have some of my best performances around that time of year. Not warm enough for heat to be much of an issue, not hayfever season yet and something to keep you motivated through the colder months.

Steroo

Just been to Aldi.. great running gear there today for Winter.. whole outfit €40! But get down fast if interested ;-)

brando1980

hey
quick question! i was training well last 2 weeks, but before tht i was off for 3 weeks. the last 2 weeks i've done 45 miles a week with my last long run on monday 21 miles in 252.00. was going fine til 11 miles then slowed considerably going from 730 pace to as far as 9 minute mile. just wondering what my taper should be and what time/pace i should aim for? i have run a few 17milers, a 20 and 21 in the last few months. wanna make sure i run the best marathon i can without blowing up in the second half so any advice on time would be amazing

RunningKing

brando1980 wrote: »

hey
quick question! i was training well last 2 weeks, but before tht i was off for 3 weeks. the last 2 weeks i've done 45 miles a week with my last long run on monday 21 miles in 252.00. was going fine til 11 miles then slowed considerably going from 730 pace to as far as 9 minute mile. just wondering what my taper should be and what time/pace i should aim for? i have run a few 17milers, a 20 and 21 in the last few months. wanna make sure i run the best marathon i can without blowing up in the second half so any advice on time would be amazing

any recent 10m or 1/2M race times?

brando1980

no race times tht recent. did a 5k over a week ago with average pace 6.20. ran 8 miles yesterday 2 at 730 pace, 3@630, last 3 at 7.00.

sassyj

ncmc wrote: »

You know, I was just thinking about this yesterday, I have been amazingly lucky with the weather I have had when running! Even with this being the wettest summer EVER I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve had to go out running in the rain or got rained on while I was out. I think it’s because I run in the evening and I reckon Irish evenings are dryer than Irish days. It will be quite a shock to the system if it is raining on the day. I hope my luck lasts just a little bit longer!

Was only saying this, I think I got drenched twice, other than that a bit of drizzle here and there

RunningKing

brando1980 wrote: »

no race times tht recent. did a 5k over a week ago with average pace 6.20. ran 8 miles yesterday 2 at 730 pace, 3@630, last 3 at 7.00.

its difficult to say, as we dont know the effort that you were putting into it, but for a 21m training run at 2:52 - I'd say its faster than a 3:30 marathon. 3:15 would be tough - so maybe somewhere in between - thats about 7:40-7:50 pace.

(based on your time for 21m being similar to mine)

joe40

I Think I signed up for the Marathon with a time of 4h 30 but I am considering going with the 4h 15 pacers. Am I right in assuming that this will not be a problem since both are in wave 3.

About the pace? My last two LSR have been 3 hours for 18 miles (Maybe a little over 18 miles) and 3h 14 mins for 20 miles exactly.

If I am able to maintain the 20 mile LSR pace for the full 26 miles I should come in around 4 h 12 mins.
Maintaining that pace for the last 10k is the big unknown.
All my LSR runs were done at what felt like a comfortable enough pace in terms of breathing and perceived effort and usually came in at slightly under 10 min miles, but saying that I was always fairly tired when the long runs were finished.
Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated but I wonder if I am wise to go with 4:15 pace and assume I do not blow up near the end, or should I be more conservative and go with the 4:30 pace.
"Fortune favours the brave" and all that, but I want to be realistic about this race and I am under no illusions it will be hard and for me finishing in any time will be a massive achievement.

By the way gutted to hear of people having to pull out due to injury. That is a real shame at this stage, I have got paranoid about injuries I am seriously considering not doing do any more runs in the dark - daylight or treadmill. There was a runner in letterkenny knocked down a few nights ago and he was on the pavement on a route I always run on. I know it is only Paranoia/taper madness but so be it for the next few weeks

brando1980

cheers, will go out with 315 group and see how i am feeling. thinking of doing abt 40 miles this week, 30 next, and 20 the week leading up to the marathon!

darabbit

rasher_m wrote: »

Bloody pissed off...went out for a walk after the run with my sister and fell. i tripped over something and gave my knee and cheekbone a right aul bang. Knee is swolen so not sure if ive done any damage but might have to give the next few runs a miss.

Ouch!! Sorry to hear that. I think we will have to wrap ourselves in bubble wrap until end of the month!
I hope you make a full recovery rasher_m.

RayCun

brando1980 wrote: »

hey
quick question! i was training well last 2 weeks, but before tht i was off for 3 weeks. the last 2 weeks i've done 45 miles a week with my last long run on monday 21 miles in 252.00. was going fine til 11 miles then slowed considerably going from 730 pace to as far as 9 minute mile. just wondering what my taper should be and what time/pace i should aim for? i have run a few 17milers, a 20 and 21 in the last few months. wanna make sure i run the best marathon i can without blowing up in the second half so any advice on time would be amazing

You can't predict race times from training run times. A race time is maximum effort, as fast as you can go for that distance. A training run could be anything from 80% to 97% effort, there's no way for us to know. (And you can't be sure either - you might think you were comfortable at a pace and could have sped up, but found otherwise if you'd tried it)

joe40 wrote: »

I Think I signed up for the Marathon with a time of 4h 30 but I am considering going with the 4h 15 pacers. Am I right in assuming that this will not be a problem since both are in wave 3.

Yeah, there are no divisions within the waves so you can move up to beside the 4.15 pacers.

joe40 wrote: »

About the pace? My last two LSR have been 3 hours for 18 miles (Maybe a little over 18 miles) and 3h 14 mins for 20 miles exactly.

If I am able to maintain the 20 mile LSR pace for the full 26 miles I should come in around 4 h 12 mins.

Bit late to tell you now, but that was too fast to run your LSRs.
If you can maintain that pace in training then you should find it okay on marathon day.
The danger is that you haven't trained your body to burn fat and you don't have the longer time on your feet, so you might blow up around the 20 mile mark. But there's no point in telling you to run at 4.30 pace because if you didn't slow down in training there's no way you'll slow down on race day :rolleyes: Just don't get to mile 2 and think "well this is easier than I expected - I think this 4.15 group is too slow for me!" and charge off after the sub 4 pacers, because that's a recipe for a Clonskeagh explosion.

RayCun

brando1980 wrote: »

cheers, will go out with 315 group and see how i am feeling.

You managed 11 miles at that pace in your last long run. Have you run further at that pace, or faster, before now?

brando1980

before i had to take 3 weeks off my last 20 miler was 733 pace

saligator

off to the physio for the first time tomorrow as i went over on my ankle just as i said 'i'm so lucky i haven't been injured'!! DOH!! could only happen to me!! happened on my 22m lsr on sunday and ran the rest of the 19m no bother, wasn't til i got home that it hurt. so glad i read all the posts on what to wear and what to expect from phsyio session, this thread is the best!

really really can't wait for the race itself now, wahooooo!

RayCun

brando1980 wrote: »

before i had to take 3 weeks off my last 20 miler was 733 pace

May as well go with the 3.15 guys then. As I said to joe40, the danger is that you haven't the time on your feet or the training effect of running the slower miles. Just don't get carried away by race day excitement.

brando1980

cheers, will see how im feeling at halfway!!

Ah_go_on

Anyone know the exact pace for 4:15?

dazza21ie

Ah_go_on wrote: »

Anyone know the exact pace for 4:15?

9:44 mins/mile for a 4:15 even or 9:43 mins/mile for a 4:14:30

joe40

Bit late to tell you now, but that was too fast to run your LSRs.
If you can maintain that pace in training then you should find it okay on marathon day.
The danger is that you haven't trained your body to burn fat and you don't have the longer time on your feet, so you might blow up around the 20 mile mark. But there's no point in telling you to run at 4.30 pace because if you didn't slow down in training there's no way you'll slow down on race day :rolleyes: Just don't get to mile 2 and think "well this is easier than I expected - I think this 4.15 group is too slow for me!" and charge off after the sub 4 pacers, because that's a recipe for a Clonskeagh explosion.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for That. I know you explained about the LSR pace earlier and the importance of fat burning on LSR. I was consciously trying to make sure the pace was comfortable on the LSR and tried to avoid going too fast, but without the experience of previous marathons it is difficult to predict marathon pace. Anyway I know 4:15 will be fantastic and hopefully the last 10 k will be ok. I actually read somewhere (could be total nonsense though) that the marathon could be divided into two equal parts in terms of effort the first 20 miles and the last 6 miles. Hopefully I haven't totally misjudged pace on my LSR but I will guard against going too fast too soon.

tomred1N

RayCun wrote: »

brando1980 wrote: »

hey
quick question! i was training well last 2 weeks, but before tht i was off for 3 weeks. the last 2 weeks i've done 45 miles a week with my last long run on monday 21 miles in 252.00. was going fine til 11 miles then slowed considerably going from 730 pace to as far as 9 minute mile. just wondering what my taper should be and what time/pace i should aim for? i have run a few 17milers, a 20 and 21 in the last few months. wanna make sure i run the best marathon i can without blowing up in the second half so any advice on time would be amazing

You can't predict race times from training run times. A race time is maximum effort, as fast as you can go for that distance. A training run could be anything from 80% to 97% effort, there's no way for us to know. (And you can't be sure either - you might think you were comfortable at a pace and could have sped up, but found otherwise if you'd tried it)

joe40 wrote: »

I Think I signed up for the Marathon with a time of 4h 30 but I am considering going with the 4h 15 pacers. Am I right in assuming that this will not be a problem since both are in wave 3.

Yeah, there are no divisions within the waves so you can move up to beside the 4.15 pacers.

joe40 wrote: »

About the pace? My last two LSR have been 3 hours for 18 miles (Maybe a little over 18 miles) and 3h 14 mins for 20 miles exactly.

If I am able to maintain the 20 mile LSR pace for the full 26 miles I should come in around 4 h 12 mins.

Bit late to tell you now, but that was too fast to run your LSRs.
If you can maintain that pace in training then you should find it okay on marathon day.
The danger is that you haven't trained your body to burn fat and you don't have the longer time on your feet, so you might blow up around the 20 mile mark. But there's no point in telling you to run at 4.30 pace because if you didn't slow down in training there's no way you'll slow down on race day :rolleyes: Just don't get to mile 2 and think "well this is easier than I expected - I think this 4.15 group is too slow for me!" and charge off after the sub 4 pacers, because that's a recipe for a Clonskeagh explosion.

Hi Ray

I have similar times to joe. Run most of the midweek runs around 9 to 9.30 mile pace so do my lsr at around 10 to 10.15min mile pace. was this still too fast. like joe if can run marathon at same pace as lsr i will be happy. Its the known unknown over 20 miles that will determine this.
On another note i have only been able to run 3 miles this week so far as i picked up a bug on monday and still feeling drained. Missed the 8 miles last night and wondering about trying 5 tonight 8 tomorrow and the 12 lsr on sunday. these are the first runs i have missed since starting hh novice 1 but from reading threads it seems better to rest till 100% than worry about missed miles at this stage. (its just this constant knocking in my head to just get out and run and you,ll be grand!)

DOCO12

Am just wondering what types of gels people use, the ones with caffeine or the non-caffeine? I took 3 High Five non caffeine for my 20miler last weekend. But have been told by a friend I should take a caffeine one aswell, what do people here use?
Also anybody else knackered this week? Legs wise their not bad considering but I feel like a zombie at work and hitting the bed so early.

RunningKing

DOCO12 wrote: »

Am just wondering what types of gels people use, the ones with caffeine or the non-caffeine? I took 3 High Five non caffeine for my 20miler last weekend. But have been told by a friend I should take a caffeine one aswell, what do people here use?
Also anybody else knackered this week? Legs wise their not bad considering but I feel like a zombie at work and hitting the bed so early.

For long runs I took non caffeine for the early miles and caffeine for the later miles.
Make sure you practise them before hand as caffeine can lead to the dreaded gingerbread man :-)

DOCO12

RunningKing wrote: »

DOCO12 wrote: »

Am just wondering what types of gels people use, the ones with caffeine or the non-caffeine? I took 3 High Five non caffeine for my 20miler last weekend. But have been told by a friend I should take a caffeine one aswell, what do people here use?
Also anybody else knackered this week? Legs wise their not bad considering but I feel like a zombie at work and hitting the bed so early.

For long runs I took non caffeine for the early miles and caffeine for the later miles.
Make sure you practise them before hand as caffeine can lead to the dreaded gingerbread man :-)

Thanks for the advice RunningKing I'll try it out on my 14miler this weekend, hopefully will avoid the side effects

jinxremoving

jinxremoving wrote: »

you're an inspiration when i feel like throwing in the towel

I too have a rotten head cold, cant even take a few days off work as we're flat out. was in bed at 7.30 last night! going to rest up for a few days and attempt to get out over the weekend. it never ends, hip, ankle then cold..whats next? my legs falling off?!!

well. i was wrong about the cold! felt like a touch of flu this week, tired, achy, no appetite,temperature, exhausted. went to the doctors tonight and i have a kidney infection run down and pushing myself a bit too hard with work, training etc. anti biotics and bed now for a few days. mind yourself everyone, go to the doctor if you feel unwell rather than let it fester into something worse.

Pacing Mule

jinxremoving wrote: »

well. i was wrong about the cold! felt like a touch of flu this week, tired, achy, no appetite,temperature, exhausted. went to the doctors tonight and i have a kidney infection run down and pushing myself a bit too hard with work, training etc. anti biotics and bed now for a few days. mind yourself everyone, go to the doctor if you feel unwell rather than let it fester into something worse.

Better now than in 2 weeks ! Hang in there jinx

curr33

morann wrote: »

It is with great regret that I have decided to pull out of the marathon. My hip flexor simply won;t heal in time. I had a test run this Monday and was limping from 4 miles, so I am out.

I will let it heal and then start again and aim for a marathon in March in Tralee. This is their first event so would be great to get numbers down there:
http://www.traleemarathon.com/

A positive is that I have learned so much from my experience and for those interested here are some points (which you will have read but may not have really taken on board )

1. Listen to your body, if pains are getting worse then respond to them. Slow down if you have to or run less miles. Don;t become a slave to the training program. Your first goal is to reach the start line fit and ready.

2. Don;t kill yourself to reach the 20 miler. If you have reached 18 and for whatever reason your are struggling to hit the 20 miler, don;t ignore your taper, do your best to get quality runs in and listen to your body.

3. I became a slave to pace, I wanted to run every run at 9 m/mile or faster. This worked in that 9min/mile felt very comfortable and anything slower felt too slow. This was a mistake, I am only running a year and I clearly suffered from this approach. Make sure you run most of your runs slow. Force yourself to go slower.

4. I know the half is gone but maybe for next year: run the half at your goal marathon pace and not faster. I was obsessed with doing 1:50 (10 minutes faster than target marathon pace). I know now had I not pushed it so much I would probably be doing the marathon. The half was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

5. Cross train. Why kill yourself running all the time, do some bike work instead of one of your runs if you feel that you just cannot run so many days in the week.

I hope some of this helps.
See you next year!
Niall

Sorry to hear you had to pull out but it sounds like you've got the right attitude for your next phase of training. Really good training reminders here. For my first half marathon in September, I cycled instead of all running and I think it helped prevent injury. My physio also recommended this approach.
Also, on reading all the posts here, you begin to feel pressured to aim for a time when everyone else tells you to just finish & enjoy your 1st marathon. I am really hoping to keep my head and do this but during the Dub half marathon, i started faster than I planned and did end up very slow at the end. Am hoping "easy does it" will stay in my head for the big one.
Best of luck in tralee!

career_move

rasher_m wrote: »

Bloody pissed off...went out for a walk after the run with my sister and fell. i tripped over something and gave my knee and cheekbone a right aul bang. Knee is swolen so not sure if ive done any damage but might have to give the next few runs a miss.

Ouch! Hope your knee feels better soon. All the hard work is done anyway so you won't lose much by missing a few runs

morann wrote: »

It is with great regret that I have decided to pull out of the marathon. My hip flexor simply won;t heal in time. I had a test run this Monday and was limping from 4 miles, so I am out.

I will let it heal and then start again and aim for a marathon in March in Tralee. This is their first event so would be great to get numbers down there:
http://www.traleemarathon.com/

Niall

Thats so disappointing. Hopefully you can maintain the base and build on it. Was looking at the tralee marathon as well last night and its at a good time. If I survive DCM ok I was going to do the half in Waterford and then could aim for Tralee....might see you down there!

jinxremoving wrote: »

went to the doctors tonight and i have a kidney infection

Bummer. Best wishes for a speedy recovery

career_move