Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

RedRunner

Mr Slow wrote: »

Here's one for you, they have a sub 2:40 marathon pb.:eek:

That's amazing alright. A friend last year sent me link to one of their videos as inspiration for my first marathon. It really helped. I must admit I had a lump in my throat after watching it.

RedRunner

good week for me this week... 3+5+6+5+12(LSR today in wind and rain...tough going)
Hopefully will have good base going into plan in few weeks. Sub 4 hr Marathon looking tough for me at this point though

RedRunner

RedRunner wrote: »

good week for me this week... 3+5+6+5+12(LSR today in wind and rain...tough going)
Hopefully will have good base going into plan in few weeks. Sub 4 hr Marathon looking tough for me at this point though

Sorry ..mispost...meant to post this to "improvers" thread....

Plus 10

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Hi there,

Just for the record I'm a novice runner myself so don't take this as experienced advice.

I think a lot of this depends on your definition of moderate fitness. For example Hal Higdons novice supreme training program is a 30 week program leading up to a marathon. You'd have to be capable of running week 7 of this plan at the moment to follow it in time for this years DCM. When I started running I wouldn't have been able to run week 1 of this program. Playing soccer though once a week means you would more than likely be at a far more advanced stage than complete beginner.

You have to factor in the potential for injury pushing too far too soon. I'd also say that 3 days a week simply won't be enough to build endurance / fitness for a marathon in that short a time frame. All the plans out there including for novices are 4 - 5 days. And to hit a sub 4 would take a bit more commitment than 3 days IMO.

Only you know your own body though and the race series is a good place to start to see how things stack up. The only issue though is entry for this years marathon will close relatively shortly so you've got to make your mind up sooner than later.

If you do go ahead though I wish you all the best ! Welcome to the thread.

Thanks for the advise - ran circa 5K on Friday and today - about 40 mins - fairly comfortable but keeping the pace slow. Entered the race series - hope to commit to it 4/5 times a week - tie into the training program you mention.

One problem or rather two
Knees getting sore at the end of the run (fine afterwards) - hope it is just the effect of the first 2 days running - should I consider training on grass?
Lower rib cage a bit sore (and still tender) again hope it is just a case of the body getting used to these runs - anyone else come accross this?

Trampas

grass is a good place to start. easier on the knees.

Pacing Mule

Plus 10 wrote: »

Thanks for the advise - ran circa 5K on Friday and today - about 40 mins - fairly comfortable but keeping the pace slow. Entered the race series - hope to commit to it 4/5 times a week - tie into the training program you mention.

One problem or rather two
Knees getting sore at the end of the run (fine afterwards) - hope it is just the effect of the first 2 days running - should I consider training on grass?
Lower rib cage a bit sore (and still tender) again hope it is just a case of the body getting used to these runs - anyone else come accross this?

Two things spring to mind. One is that yes your body does need to get used to the running and the impact of your feet hitting the ground and the shock waves etc that puts through you. Again the jumping into 5k may not help this as your body has not had a gradual easing into it as if you were a complete beginner. When I started first I was on a treadmill in the gym and I was in bits after running my first run on the road. It was a whole different world of muscles used - some I did not even know I had were hurting after ! But that's a temporary thing.

The second is to make sure you are in a properly fitted pair of runners. Unsuitable footwear can be ok for everyday walking but if used to run in can cause injury and pain. Can't emphasise that enough. Go to a proper running store and get your gait analysed. I made the mistake of going to elverys and as it turned out was given an unsuitable pair of runners. After reading comments here about them I went for a second opinion in amphibian king balllymount. Can't recommend them enough. They do gait analysis properly both on you yourself and on you wearing your current runners, offer a range of pairs for you to try, teach you and explain the differences between each runner (was an eye opener to me to learn how different each pair is and most importantly how a wrongly fitted pair can cause injury) make sure the one you pick is 100% suitable and do gait analysis on each one you try on to make sure it is suitable etc. I was nearly an hour and a half in total there and left with a pair of runners I am 100% confident are right for me. A good pair of runners will cost you 100-140 but if you're serious about running the marathon will be the best investment you could make. Your pain could very well be caused by your current footwear being unsuitable.

Dilbert75

+1 to that. If you're baulking at the price of the good runners, my physio charges e45 per visit and if you have unsuitable runners you will most likely end being a more frequent visitor. It doesn't take long to pay for itself.

Pacing Mule

Just back in from a 10k (6.25 mile) LSR in 66 min. This would be equal my longest ever non stop run but crucially although only 2 min outside my PB and with some crippling hills on way back I could have kept going if needed. Quite happy with that

Dilbert75

Just back from my first run since my marathon 8 days ago. Did about 2.5k to the park, met the family there and played with the kids for a while then came home a different way. Total was about 6k, and i was pleased enough with how it went. Have a few aches and twinges alright but I kinda expected that.

Trampas

I am signed up for race series but I am don't think i will do anymore races as doing my lsr.

anyone else planning to do extra races?

Martin_ie2012

Trampas wrote: »

I am signed up for race series but I am don't think i will do anymore races as doing my lsr.

anyone else planning to do extra races?

No have the docklands 8k on the 19th and signed up for race series and dcm but think thats enough dont want to do too many races and burn out as this is my first year of running proper. Anyone else doing the docklands 8k by the way?

tang1

Trampas wrote: »

I am signed up for race series but I am don't think i will do anymore races as doing my lsr.

anyone else planning to do extra races?

Not doing the race series this year, looking at doing other races. Might do Athlone Half Marathon on same day as race series Half Marathon. Just looking for something different than running in the park.

shortie_chik

Last week: 3+3+3+ 7 LSR. Done!
And it was very manageable. Can see definite improvements in my fitness as I've been able to keep up a good pace on my short midweek runs. The last 2 weekends have been 7 mile LSRs; easier this week for sure, and not rushing myself at all. Actually quite enjoyed plodding about (12 min miles!) on Saturday morning, but I guess part of it is I know I have the maximum rest time between the end of that run & Tuesday!

Went to the sprint TriAthy yesterday morning with my boyfriend. There was such a good atmosphere & so many happy / relieved faces at the finish line. I was super proud of Mr Shortie_Chik who did his (750m river) swim in 13:18! :cool: I really wished I was taking part! There's not a hope in hell of that ever happening, but it got me excited about the 5 mile race in 4 weeks! (on the same day as his TriAthlone, so no one there to clap either of us on )

This week: 3+4+3+ 5 LSR. 5 mile LSR is gonna feel easy peasy this week

Duzzie

Week 3 done, 33kms again last week (5+8+8+12). Was due to to a 12km LSR on saturday but family commitments did for that plan, so did it this evening at a respectable 5:50m/km. Today was meant to be a 5k jog so I figured the 12k LSR was more important. I'll try to slot the 5k in later this week, but if not, i reckon it is better to skip the 5k than the 12k.

One slight niggle on todays run, after about 10ks, I started getting a bit of pain around my right collar bone, gave me jip for about a km then eased off. Any ideas?? I still have a bit of weight to shift so could be my body complaining about that but any advice would be gratefully received. It wasn't too serious but was enough to put me off my stride and for me to consider stopping, I didn't though

miguelk

Gonna start logging at the end of each week.

Getting through the end of the HH spring program. Don't really know my pace for the program yet so taking it handy and once the program starts I'll figure it out. Got the 5mile at the end of the month so that'll help as well. Prev 2 weeks LSR has been approx 10:30 - 11:00 pace (miles per min) and easy has been 9:45 - 10:00 but I may be changing this.

Prev week:2.5e/3e/2.5e 5.5lsr
Last week: 2.5e/3e/2.5e 3lsr

This week coming:2.5/3mp/2.5 5.5lsr

ncmc

Had a great day yesterday at the Cork City Marathon, I was in a relay team doing the last two legs, so I got to experience crossing the finish line. It was an amazing buzz and the atmosphere around the city was fantastic. I did 9.7 miles in 80 mins bang on, so about 8.15 mile. Was delighted to get that time, I’m really beginning to see the results of all the training. It has really made me look forward to the DCM, I was actually jealous of the people doing the full thing!

I would really recommend doing a relay if you don’t feel you are quite up to half marathon distance.

Deedee2012

Hi, delighted to have found this thread because I've almost persuaded myself to do dcm this year. I thought I was too much of a beginner but reading your posts I'm at a similar standard.

I'm 39, female running about a year, I've no racing experience but recently ran 5k in 26. 50, I run 4 times per week, my longest LSR was Sunday with 8 miles in the rain. I recently joined a club and train with them Tues and Thurs nights an hour each. They do hills, interval repeats, fartlek etc usually 4/5 miles, I do 3 miles easy on a Wed.
I have no goal time just would love to finish, I've signed up for the race series.
I cycle 10k each way for work 3 days a week and am doing a bit of strength/pilates at home. I've been running about a year.

My main question is, having read the first few posts about the importance of easy running can I continue my Tues/thurs club sessions or is this working against marathon training? I could ask the club coaches about this but I don't want to come out of the closet yet to say I want to do DCM,

zooming

Well, I survived the Flora mini marathon in Dublin, 10k in 71 mins. Not over the moon, i was hoping for under 70 but it was hard to get going past the walkers, I came 6540th out of 40,000 people. My first race and I was nervous, plus it was HOT in Dublin, the hour in the start pen was awful before it but I suppose we gotta get used to that!!!
Anyone thinking about the half marathon in Dublin September 15th?

Pacing Mule

Deedee2012 wrote: »

Hi, delighted to have found this thread because I've almost persuaded myself to do dcm this year. I thought I was too much of a beginner but reading your posts I'm at a similar standard.

I'm 39, female running about a year, I've no racing experience but recently ran 5k in 26. 50, I run 4 times per week, my longest LSR was Sunday with 8 miles in the rain. I recently joined a club and train with them Tues and Thurs nights an hour each. They do hills, interval repeats, fartlek etc usually 4/5 miles, I do 3 miles easy on a Wed.
I have no goal time just would love to finish, I've signed up for the race series.
I cycle 10k each way for work 3 days a week and am doing a bit of strength/pilates at home. I've been running about a year.

My main question is, having read the first few posts about the importance of easy running can I continue my Tues/thurs club sessions or is this working against marathon training? I could ask the club coaches about this but I don't want to come out of the closet yet to say I want to do DCM,

Welcome to the thread and best of luck with your training. I suspect the tuesday / thursday heavier sessions could be incorporated into a plan (the fact you're running a year and cycling so much means you will have a very good base to take on a bit more in training than the standard "novice" as such) but I will leave comment to the more experienced runners.

zooming wrote: »

Well, I survived the Flora mini marathon in Dublin, 10k in 71 mins. Not over the moon, i was hoping for under 70 but it was hard to get going past the walkers, I came 6540th out of 40,000 people. My first race and I was nervous, plus it was HOT in Dublin, the hour in the start pen was awful before it but I suppose we gotta get used to that!!!
Anyone thinking about the half marathon in Dublin September 15th?

Well done Zooming,

You would have lost a lot of time to walkers at the start so even though it doesn't show it on the clock you can be sure your run was a sub 70 effort.

zooming

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Welcome to the thread and best of luck with your training. I suspect the tuesday / thursday heavier sessions could be incorporated into a plan (the fact you're running a year and cycling so much means you will have a very good base to take on a bit more in training than the standard "novice" as such) but I will leave comment to the more experienced runners.



Well done Zooming,

You would have lost a lot of time to walkers at the start so even though it doesn't show it on the clock you can be sure your run was a sub 70 effort.

Thanks!!!! Do you think the half marathon would be a good idea in September? My time for that would be 2 hrs 30 approx, would i be the last one home?

macinalli

zooming wrote: »

My first race and I was nervous, plus it was HOT in Dublin, the hour in the start pen was awful before it but I suppose we gotta get used to that!!!

You don't! There are loads of much smaller races all over the country where you do your warm up and then line up 2 minutes before the gun. These huge waiting times are only really for mass events like the WMM and the GIR, and are by no means the norm!

Pacing Mule

zooming wrote: »

Thanks!!!! Do you think the half marathon would be a good idea in September? My time for that would be 2 hrs 30 approx, would i be the last one home?

Definitely not last. 6500 ran last years half and hundreds finished outside of that time. You can check out the results on the Dublin marathon race series site (am on phone so can't link to it at moment)

That's around my current expected time too but theres a long way to go until then and I am quite confident you and I will be that bit faster than 2:30 by then.

zooming

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Definitely not last. 6500 ran last years half and hundreds finished outside of that time. You can check out the results on the Dublin marathon race series site (am on phone so can't link to it at moment)

That's around my current expected time too but theres a long way to go until then and I am quite confident you and I will be that bit faster than 2:30 by then.

I just cant seem to get faster, I can go further, but am stuck on that same 11.30 pace, any of the programmes I have looked at seem to concentrate on endurance rather than speed, never the less I didnt want to embarrass myself with coming home with the bin man!! Are you doing the half in Dublin?

G-Money

Been shocking over the last week, haven't ran at all. Did myself a small back injury over the weekend too but it's clearing up quickly, should be 100% again in a couple of days. I've a 5.5 mile run pencilled in for Saturday!

Pacing Mule

zooming wrote: »

I just cant seem to get faster, I can go further, but am stuck on that same 11.30 pace, any of the programmes I have looked at seem to concentrate on endurance rather than speed, never the less I didnt want to embarrass myself with coming home with the bin man!! Are you doing the half in Dublin?

All novice / beginners programes quite rightly are endurance / general fitness only. This makes sense as training your body to run long distances puts a lot of strain on it. When you then throw in intervals, pacing etc (any kind of speed work) it's an extra strain highly likely to lead to injury / body breakdown in a novice runner. What I personally do is pick one short run a week and try increase the pace on this a little bit - even if it's only for the first kilometre. If it's too much to carry for the entire run I'll end up walking a bit to recover then having another go at it. You just get used to running a fraction faster like you did when you got used to running further than a couple of hundred metres when you first started. What I do know though is that it's not practical to focus on increasing speed when you're increasing distance. When I'm running a longer run I have to slow down beneath my normal pace to save energy for the tail end of the run.

Do you keep a log of your times for each kilometre / mile anywhere or are you going off I ran X distance in Y miles and therefore my pace is Z ?

I use endomondo to track my runs and kilometre splits and it's very interesting to see the subtle changes over the course of a run itself and also over time. There is no doubt that speed improves naturally as you run more. But when you take on longer distances you can end up with the same average pace if you ran the first half a good bit faster and then as you got tired slowed down.

I'm seeing in my own personal splits a definite pattern of my underlying base pace (before starting to tire later in the run) getting quicker even though at times my overall run time will not have changed much. There is an argument that pace / runs should be consistent (as most of the experienced runners here will be quick to point out ) but when you're new to the whole thing it takes quite some time to settle down into a true base pace and fitness level from which you would then start working on improving with speed training.

I will be doing the half - signed up for all the race series but turns out I will miss the 10k.

My current pace is similar to yours - 6min to 7 min per kilometre (10 - 11.5 minute miles) is generally where I'm at depending on the effort being made, how early in the run, long slow pace versus a quick 5k etc)

Younganne

Here are some basic tips regarding Nutrition
Eat a well balanced diet, eat when you are hungry and listen to you body!!
Try to eat good unprocessed foods and the diet should be made up of 60% Carbohydrates (bread, cereal, potatoes, rice, pasta, Fruit & veg), 15% from Protein the rest from fat. Females should also increase their intake of vitamins, iron and other minerals. Snack should be healthy snacks (nuts, seed, dried fruit, cereal bars, pitta bread, malt loaf, a few squares of dark chocolate!)

Keep Hydration levels constant
Don’t just drink water before a run, keep hydration levels topped up all the time. It should be enough to stop you feeling thirsty and a good test is having pale straw-coloured coloured urine, any darker and you need to drink more water!!!

Don’t train on empty
Try to plan your run so that you can have something to eat at least 1-2 hrs beforehand, but everyone is different and you need to experiment with this to see what suits you best. Before the long run make sure you have some good carbs and then see if you can stick to what you know will settle in your stomach (use this strategy then on race mornings). A bowl of porridge is good, a bagel with banana, and wholemeal toast with fruit.
The night before a big/long run make sure you have a good meal with plenty of slow burning carbohydrates

Speed up your Recovery – eat/drink to refuel within 15min of LSR/Races
Carbohydrates are stored in the body (muscles & Liver) as Glycogen. Glycogen levels become depleted after a workout and the quicker they are topped up the quicker the recovery will be and the better you’ll feel later. You also need water and electrolytes to replace fluid loss and protein to repair muscles…honey sandwich (white bread is good here) toast & peanut butter, fruit yogurt, smoothie, milk, chocolate milk, protein drink, energy bars/flapjacks!!

Eat well on rest days
Rest days are very important for recovery because muscles are at their most receptive, eat well, replenish energy stores and feed your muscles!!
You don’t have to eat huge amounts of extra food, just the correct amount of the correct food!! Everyone is different as it depends on your size and level of training.

A bit about Carbohydrates.

Carbs are an essential part of an athlete’s diet because carbs, once digested are converted into blood glucose and used for energy or stored as glycogen in the liver and muscles.
But there are different types of carbs that have different functions
Unrefined Carbs – wholegrain breads, unprocessed cereals like rolled porridge oats, brown rice, wholewheat pasta, pulses, beans and potatoes and these are absorbed more slowly into the body so will keep us going for longer and will avoid the dramatic sugar highs & lows.
Refined Carbs are white rice, white bread, cakes, biscuits, sugary products including sports drinks and these are absorbed more rapidly into the body and provide a quick sugar rush, which is great for immediately after exercise/races to replenish tired muscles, but not so good for energy levels on a long run!!!

For vitamins and minerals you need to eat plenty of fruit & vegetables, these also boost the immune system….try include a rainbow coloured selection in your daily diet…

Protein for power & Recovery
Meat, fish and alternatives (eggs, cheese, nuts & pulses) are essential for the build-up and repair of muscles especially after a heavy training session or tough race…A nice bug juicy Steak goes a long way to repairing those tired muscles!!!
Try to include lean meat, fish & shellfish, Eggs and/or cheese, pulses & beans, nuts & seeds & vegetarian alternatives (Quorn, soya, tofu, pulses & beans)

Milk & Dairy Products
Calcium is very important for healthy bones, teeth & blood

Fats
Unsaturated fats are good for us, Omega-3 & omega-6 are found in oily fish, nuts & seeds are an essential part of our diet.
Saturated fats are found in butter, fat on meat and hydrogenated vegetables oil is found in all processed food like pastry, cakes, biscuits, sweets etc should all be kept to a minimum!!

shortie_chik

zooming wrote: »

I just cant seem to get faster, I can go further, but am stuck on that same 11.30 pace, any of the programmes I have looked at seem to concentrate on endurance rather than speed, never the less I didnt want to embarrass myself with coming home with the bin man!! Are you doing the half in Dublin?

Hi Zooming! Well done on the mini-marathon! It's a really tough race, more like an obstacle course I think, so 71mins is a great time! :cool:

I'll be doing the half-marathon in Sept (have signed up for the full race series) and I'll probably be about 2h30m too. I've done it a few times, and even when I was MUCH slower than I was now, I was never the last home! There are plenty of people who don't run the whole thing (just run - walk - run...), or who sign up to walk it so if you just keep trucking along slowly, you'll be grand. I'm absolutely not a fast runner(~10 min miles for short fast runs, 11:30-12 min miles for LSR), but I know if I get there without injury & just keeeeeeeep going, I can finish. Eventually.

Actually at 71mins for the WMM 10k, you'll probably fly along at a much faster pace when you don't have to avoid the chains of linked-arm walkers :mad: & jump up & down on footpaths :mad: & go around parked cars etc :mad:

Younganne

Deedee2012 wrote: »

Hi, delighted to have found this thread because I've almost persuaded myself to do dcm this year. I thought I was too much of a beginner but reading your posts I'm at a similar standard.

I'm 39, female running about a year, I've no racing experience but recently ran 5k in 26. 50, I run 4 times per week, my longest LSR was Sunday with 8 miles in the rain. I recently joined a club and train with them Tues and Thurs nights an hour each. They do hills, interval repeats, fartlek etc usually 4/5 miles, I do 3 miles easy on a Wed.
I have no goal time just would love to finish, I've signed up for the race series.
I cycle 10k each way for work 3 days a week and am doing a bit of strength/pilates at home. I've been running about a year.

My main question is, having read the first few posts about the importance of easy running can I continue my Tues/thurs club sessions or is this working against marathon training? I could ask the club coaches about this but I don't want to come out of the closet yet to say I want to do DCM,

Hi Deedee, you have a great base built up there for yourself. I think if your sessions are giving you 4/5 mile then thats fine but the dilemma will be that when the weekend LSR mileage builds up and you are running 14, 16 miles etc you might find that you are not recovering quickly enough from doing a speed session on a Thurs night, so maybe keep that in mind. On the other hand, by Tuesday you might still be tired from the weekend LSR and your next session should be an easy session.

I know its not answering your question fully but maybe continue the sessions until you find that your need to reduce them or let the coach know you are planning the marathon and im sure there'll be other there training for the marathon and you can go for a run with them and still be attending the club!

zooming

shortie_chik wrote: »

Hi Zooming! Well done on the mini-marathon! It's a really tough race, more like an obstacle course I think, so 71mins is a great time! :cool:

I'll be doing the half-marathon in Sept (have signed up for the full race series) and I'll probably be about 2h30m too. I've done it a few times, and even when I was MUCH slower than I was now, I was never the last home! There are plenty of people who don't run the whole thing (just run - walk - run...), or who sign up to walk it so if you just keep trucking along slowly, you'll be grand. I'm absolutely not a fast runner(~10 min miles for short fast runs, 11:30-12 min miles for LSR), but I know if I get there without injury & just keeeeeeeep going, I can finish. Eventually.

Actually at 71mins for the WMM 10k, you'll probably fly along at a much faster pace when you don't have to avoid the chains of linked-arm walkers :mad: & jump up & down on footpaths :mad: & go around parked cars etc :mad:

Wow Thanks!!!!
Yes I did feel a bit like a spring lamb up and down footpaths and dodging discarded cups etc. Thats really great encouragement thanks, are you going well yourself?

shortie_chik

zooming wrote: »

Wow Thanks!!!!
Yes I did feel a bit like a spring lamb up and down footpaths and dodging discarded cups etc. Thats really great encouragement thanks, are you going well yourself?

I haven't done the WMM in the last few years as I just found all the jumping & dodging was too hard on my ankles. I guess it made me try to move on to other races though so it's not all bad!

I'm really happy to see there are more & more people at my kind of speed doing the DCM! Like you, I'd be a bit worried about the cleaners tidying up around me but if the route is open for 7 or 8 hours, there must be people who register to walk, so I won't be Paddy Last!

This is week 5 or 6 of getting back into a structured running routine & I can see that I'm improving over short runs. Just gonna keep doing what Hal tells me & I'm sure the rest will follow!