Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

shortie_chik

Weekly check in time!
3-4-3-5LSR done. 5 mile LSR was harder than I expected!
Should have got it in on Saturday but got lazy & only went out this afternoon. Gonna have to keep making the effort on Saturday mornings. Leaves me with the rest of the weekend to pat myself on the back and the longest possible rest time before I run again on Tuesday.

Next week: 3-5-3-8LSR.

Trampas wrote: »

what do people use to track runs etc?
I bought a garmin 405cx with heart monitor and find it great

I bought a Garmin Forerunner 405 a few years ago & have got great use out of it. The beep every mile & little pacer dude are great help. Mostly I keep an eye on my average speed / how I'm doing versus my pacer. Also I like to know the distance covered; this helps me a lot if I'm finding the run tough or easy. Especially gives me a little boost to see I've gone farther than I'd noticed & amn't feeling too worn out!

I don't really watch the heart rate info while I'm running (unless I'm having a really tough time & I just check that I'm not going to explode). Sometimes I take a look at it when I'm looking back over the run info. I usually just judge how I'm doing based on how my lungs / legs feel.

Duzzie

Week 4 done. I missed this weeks 5km as I only got to do last weeks 12km LSR on Monday which threw my plans out. So this week was 8k - 8k - 16k plus the carried over 12k from last week. The 16k today was tough going but got through it ok. Went on a route on the back country roads in Wicklow and found i had underestimated some of the hills on the route, if these hills don't prepare me for the DCM, nothing will. Legs are feeling it now though.
Plan has for an easier week next week, presumably to allow a bit of recovery after the 16k run this week.

Mr Slow

Duzzie wrote: »

Week 4 done. I missed this weeks 5km as I only got to do last weeks 12km LSR on Monday which threw my plans out. So this week was 8k - 8k - 16k plus the carried over 12k from last week. The 16k today was tough going but got through it ok. Went on a route on the back country roads in Wicklow and found i had underestimated some of the hills on the route, if these hills don't prepare me for the DCM, nothing will. Legs are feeling it now though.
Plan has for an easier week next week, presumably to allow a bit of recovery after the 16k run this week.

Don't carry over runs, you increase your weekly mileage by too much and risk injury or overtraining. If you miss one, let it go.

DMG1983

Hey guys, fantastic thread thanks a million for starting it!!
I am a 28 year old female.
I used to run competitively when I was younger but due to an injury I had to stop for a long time (then I got lazy:rolleyes:)and now I'm just getting back into it.
My only time indications would be 50mins for a 10k.
I run 6km 3-4 times a week depending on work but I'm not very consistent with it so I think this thread will really help me!!
I went to watch the Edinburgh marathon a few weeks ago because my bessie was running it and it kind of inspired me to commit to the DCM.
I've always wanted to do it but I wasn't convinced I could, I seen all shapes and sizes crossing the finishing line and it made me realise you don't have to look like an athlete to be able to finish the marathon!!
I would be happy enough to finish but I would love to do it in 4.5 hours!!
Looking forward to the challange and sharing ideas and training tips:D

rasher_m

Well my log for the week was as follows
Mon - I ran the mini marathon, i thought id get under the 50 mins cause i got 53'48 for the GIR but got 52'05. I was a bit disappointed.
Tues - 6km tempo on threadmill
Wed - 6km tempo on threadmill
Sat - 12.5 miles - was a broken run that took over two hours as I had the dog with me and had to stop to pick her up from her home and then for drinks and a chat etc. ha
Today just done a 4.5 mile walk, feeling stiff enough I have to say.

I'm thinking of the Clontarf half but still not sure but ive signed up for the 5 mile in the park at the end of the month anyway.

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

zooming

Runchick wrote: »

zooming wrote: »

I bought the Hal Higdon iPhone app and it's great! He talks to you every 10 mins and counts down your miles. ONLY HALF A MILE LEFT YOU CAN DO IT!!!! Ha

I've been considering buying this app. I currently use Runkeeper which tells me my distance and pace every 10 mins and I like it too. With the Higdon app can you make changes to the plan, say add a mile to the distance and change days?? If so I think I might invest!

When you put in the date of your marathon it automatically starts 18 weeks before, in our case June 25, but you can log a run into the journal at anytime, if you want to run 4 miles instead of 3 you can just carry on and hit done once you have stopped and all your run info will be logged. I like it and it gives you tips everyday too, some of the other apps are harder to work! But I'm impressed with this one. I also have a garmin that loads info into my computer after every run but to be honest it's more technical. I use it more for watching my pace and it's easier to see on my wrist rather than on my arm

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

It's a nice flat course, the wind can be a bit strong on the beach section but it's good fun overall. The pacers are all Boardsies btw.

Pacing Mule

LSR time for me. On way to Phoenix park for a 7-8 miler. See you in 4 hours

ncmc

Morning all! So weekly check in time! I had a good week last week, I am really in a routine now and am not finding it tough to go out all anymore. Last week was a bit unusual as I was taking part of the Cork marathon relay, so I skipped my LSR last weekend to rest the legs for Monday.

Mon – 9.7 miles (marathon) – 80 mins
Tues – Rest
Wed - Rest
Thurs – 4.15 miles – 37.51 mins
Fri – 5 miles – 44.43 mins
Sat – 6.65 miles – 61 mins
Sun – Rest

So all in all a good week, this is my first week breaking 25 miles, so I really feel like I’m on my way!

rasher_m

Mr Slow wrote: »

rasher_m wrote: »

Anyone trying the Clontarf half at all?

It's a nice flat course, the wind can be a bit strong on the beach section but it's good fun overall. The pacers are all Boardsies btw.

Cheers, yeah im still not sure if i want to run this. im feeling like its s bit early to be racing half marathons plus i wont get a decent lsr in the week before if im doing the 5 mile race series. any thoughts?

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

Cheers, yeah im still not sure if i want to run this. im feeling like its s bit early to be racing half marathons plus i wont get a decent lsr in the week before if im doing the 5 mile race series. any thoughts?

Nothing to say you have to race it, run it as an LSR, no time pressure and all the benefits of race atmosphere and adrenaline. Plus you'll feel great finishing so strong when those around you are on their last legs.

miguelk

distance (pace)

2.5 (easy 9.51) / 3 (MP 8:51) / 2.5 (easy 9:50) / 5.5 (lsr 10:17)

13.5 miles this week, feeling good. Got through it ok. The weekday runs were handy enough but found the lsr a little tougher this week in the heat yesterday.

I want to build up to the race series 5 mile and although this week is a step-back week in the spring training program I joined it late enough so I may push on as I need to get my mileage up bit by bit for week one of the program (N2-19m). I'm going to maintain my target 9min/mile MP for the moment and see how I get on in the 5 mile race. If I have to cut back then so be its hard to tell until my milage goes up a bit.

Haven't broadcast that I'm doing it yet to anyone, pretty similar reasons as discussed by the other novices recently - mostly because I want to get stuck into the program and see how I get on, also because its a personal challenge at the moment, and its going ok, so for the time being I'll keep it that way.

So the plan for the week is: 3e / 4mp / 3e / 7lsr = 17 Miles.

Must say I'm feeling really good (not just physically, overall), great buzz about meeting you're targets and covering the miles. Glued to the thread hearing other novices updates and advice given. Keep up the good work and keep the updates coming!

Runchick

zooming wrote: »

When you put in the date of your marathon it automatically starts 18 weeks before, in our case June 25, but you can log a run into the journal at anytime, if you want to run 4 miles instead of 3 you can just carry on and hit done once you have stopped and all your run info will be logged. I like it and it gives you tips everyday too, some of the other apps are harder to work! But I'm impressed with this one. I also have a garmin that loads info into my computer after every run but to be honest it's more technical. I use it more for watching my pace and it's easier to see on my wrist rather than on my arm

Sounds like its worth a go! I was gonna print out the plan and stick it on the fridge and write in times and changes, but its probably time to enter 2012 and do things a bit more sophisticatedly!!

Pacing Mule

12k done in 1 hour 20 minutes. Struggled towards the end and pace dropped back a bit from the first half of the run but happy enough to have extended my longest run record.

Mr Slow

When I was reaching mile markers for the first time in training (ie 13/15) I had a print out of the course and would mark in every week how far I had gotten, great for motivation.

ncmc

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

dazza21ie

ncmc wrote: »

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

I wouldn't just look at the last few weeks in isolation. By the end of week 12 by my calculations you would have done 44 more miles on Novice 2. Plus by the end of the plan you have the benefit of 11 pace runs (maybe 12 if Half is run at MP). The extra mileage and effort for pace runs will no doubt take its toll.

rasher_m

ncmc wrote: »

I just have a quick question about the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan. The mileage towards the last few weeks is actually less on the Novice 2 than on the Novice 1. The Novice 2 seems to eliminate the ‘sort of long run’ on a Wednesday and replaces is it with a short pace run. Is this right? Is a short pace run really more advantageous at that late stage than a long run?

The LSR's are longer for Novice 2 so that looks to be the reason.

Younganne

Pace runs are tougher on the body and take longer to recover from than slower runs and thats why the mileage is different...the only advice i would give is to pick a plan and stick with it, don't add extra miles because you're feeling good etc...the plans are designed to get you to the start line un-injured, so if you go chopping and changing them it may lead to injury!

ncmc

Younganne wrote: »

Pace runs are tougher on the body and take longer to recover from than slower runs and thats why the mileage is different...the only advice i would give is to pick a plan and stick with it, don't add extra miles because you're feeling good etc...the plans are designed to get you to the start line un-injured, so if you go chopping and changing them it may lead to injury!

Thanks Younganne, I think I am going to go with Novice 2, it seems to be a better fit for me with where I am mileage wise at the moment. Bar the pace runs and an extra mile or two on the LSR, it really isn't much different. I presume a pace run just means marathon pace and not any faster?

dazza21ie

ncmc wrote: »

I presume a pace run just means marathon pace and not any faster?

Yeah pace run is at Marathon Pace.

zooming

Runchick wrote: »

zooming wrote: »

When you put in the date of your marathon it automatically starts 18 weeks before, in our case June 25, but you can log a run into the journal at anytime, if you want to run 4 miles instead of 3 you can just carry on and hit done once you have stopped and all your run info will be logged. I like it and it gives you tips everyday too, some of the other apps are harder to work! But I'm impressed with this one. I also have a garmin that loads info into my computer after every run but to be honest it's more technical. I use it more for watching my pace and it's easier to see on my wrist rather than on my arm

Sounds like its worth a go! I was gonna print out the plan and stick it on the fridge and write in times and changes, but its probably time to enter 2012 and do things a bit more sophisticatedly!!

To be honest I do both! I did out a plan for my fridge too, I get a sense of satisfaction manually crossing off those runs, plus I had to tweak Hal a bit July 7 for a fortnight as I'm away on holidays and didn't want to get lost or just muddle through!

folan

Ill subscribe to this thread, and ill try to get involved a bit more instead of looking at it occasionally.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes:
5K race: 23:22
5mile race in 54 mins ( 2years back, i was sick for the last ones i was hoping to do)
10K race: 53.29
10 Mile: 92:06
Half mara: 120:14 (was so annoyed at them 15 seconds!)


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
No

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week,
cross training - whatever you think is relevant
Run about 2-4 times a week (15 -25 miles per week). Lift weights 2-3 times a week. bouldering occasionally (once every week to fortnight or so)

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Dream time: 2:00:00 (seriously, anything quicker that 4:20:00 will have me very happy)
Realistic: 4:30:00 or finishing

How many days a week can you train?
Hopefully i can fill the 4 a week for the Hal Hidgon novice 2 plan. a couple of doubtful days in there, but most of it can be rearranged or imporvised.


Why are you running this marathon?
to prove to myself I can. Its on the pre 30 list.

because after loosing 2 stone and feeling healthier after starting running on a whim 2 years ago, because I love running now.

because finsihing the half marathon was one of the best feelings ive ever had.

and I want the feeling of finishing the whole thing.

Runchick

dazza21ie wrote: »

Yeah pace run is at Marathon Pace.

I'm a bit confused by this. I thought the pace runs were more or less as fast as you could manage over the distance, usually 60 - 90 seconds per mile faster than LSR pace. I thought marathon pace would be close to the LSR pace? Have I got this wrong??

folan

Runchick wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. I thought the pace runs were more or less as fast as you could manage over the distance, usually 60 - 90 seconds per mile faster than LSR pace. I thought marathon pace would be close to the LSR pace? Have I got this wrong??

if your going by hal hidgon, yes:

Race Pace: What do I mean by "race pace?" It's a frequently asked question, so let me explain. Race pace is the pace you plan to run in the race you're training for. If you're training for a 4:00 marathon, your average pace per mile is 9:09. So you would run that same pace when asked to run race pace (sometimes stated simply as "pace" on the training charts).

from the site Novice 2 Page

Runchick

Younganne wrote: »

Pace runs are tougher on the body and take longer to recover from than slower runs and thats why the mileage is different...the only advice i would give is to pick a plan and stick with it, don't add extra miles because you're feeling good etc...the plans are designed to get you to the start line un-injured, so if you go chopping and changing them it may lead to injury!

Sounds like good advice there Younganne. I'm going to follow the Novice 2 plan BUT I have a HM as my LSR in Week 1 and Week 5 (commitments I made before finding this plan) and I already do the 3 short runs longer than they are at the start of the plan. So I don't want to go backwards... I was going to simply add a mile to each session of the plan after my HM in week 5...do you think this will work ok if the increase is consistent throughout the plan?

Runchick

folan wrote: »

if your going by hal hidgon, yes:



from the site Novice 2 Page

Thanks Folan, so looking at the plan that means the furthest you will have done at marathon pace is 8 mile in week 12....I can't get my head around that at all!

folan

hey Runchick. ive asked the same and ive been told its because youre still gaining the distance, and running too fast too far too much will most likely end up in an injury.

Mr Slow

Runchick wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by this. I thought the pace runs were more or less as fast as you could manage over the distance, usually 60 - 90 seconds per mile faster than LSR pace. I thought marathon pace would be close to the LSR pace? Have I got this wrong??

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you run your LSR at x pace that you'll automatically run the marathon much faster, you won't!

The race series is a great tool to see how you're developing and should help shape your goal. The half marathon is the best indicator of what kind of shape you're in and what time all going well you could expect in DCM.

dazza21ie

Runchick wrote: »

Thanks Folan, so looking at the plan that means the furthest you will have done at marathon pace is 8 mile in week 12....I can't get my head around that at all!

Plan also includes a half marathon which can be raced as normal and which is likely to be quicker than your marathon pace.

The purpose of the longer runs is to train your body to metabolize fat and to get used to the extra time on your feet. Running them too quick gives you very little benefits and increases the risk of injury.