Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Younganne

tang1 wrote: »

Dryish evening in Kilbride thank god, nice race. Flat two lap course which is serious PB potential, new personal best by 2min 44sec. Race time of 42min 57sec, only thing i can kind of complain about my race is i ran first mile in 6.05 (stupid). But any day i run PB of over 2 & half mins is a great one.

Well done Tang1, thats a great time and a good chunk to take off your previous time..keep it going and you'll see all your times coming down!

MissMauer wrote: »

New to boards guys. Have been reading through the initial 20 pages or so of this thread before skipping to the end to join! Will catch up with the rest of the info over the next few days. Very quick intro. Started running last year and have built to a distance of 20k achieved last weekend. Pace is slow at around 6.5km/m.

Couple of small races completed:
5k Operation Transformation run 2011 in 29.27
10k Samsung Night run 2011 in 59.36

So as you can see I find it difficult to speed up even for a race! Really looking forward to starting the HHNovice 1 in a couple of weeks with a view to building fitness and endurance.

welcome to the thread..We don't worry about pace in this thread;)

This day 2 weeks we'll have week 1 run 1 over and done with!!!!
How is everyone feeling about the plan getting closer...reality is closing in on us;)

rasher_m

Younganne wrote: »

Well done Tang1, thats a great time and a good chunk to take off your previous time..keep it going and you'll see all your times coming down!




welcome to the thread..We don't worry about pace in this thread;)

This day 2 weeks we'll have week 1 run 1 over and done with!!!!
How is everyone feeling about the plan getting closer...reality is closing in on us;)

I'm looking forward to the 5 mile race in the park. I'd say there'll be a real buzz around with the first race kicking off full of hopefuls. I'm not planning on actually signing up for the marathon until I know I can run 15 solid miles without feeling banjaxed and still feeling eager to forge ahead with the rest of the training.
It wont be wasted even if I dont proceed since I'm getting in good shape and i'm enjoying the runs and this forum in general.

G-Money

Managed to force myself out this morning for the first time in about 2.5 weeks. I did 3 slow miles, a bit surprised that I had lost so much speed, but I'm sure it will come back. I felt fine though, wasn't wrecked or anything and didn't find it difficult which I was expecting to be honest.

zooming

MissMauer wrote: »

New to boards guys. Have been reading through the initial 20 pages or so of this thread before skipping to the end to join! Will catch up with the rest of the info over the next few days. Very quick intro. Started running last year and have built to a distance of 20k achieved last weekend. Pace is slow at around 6.5km/m.

Couple of small races completed:
5k Operation Transformation run 2011 in 29.27
10k Samsung Night run 2011 in 59.36

So as you can see I find it difficult to speed up even for a race! Really looking forward to starting the HHNovice 1 in a couple of weeks with a view to building fitness and endurance.

You are way faster than me! Its all about finishing on this forum, and loving each other (awww) through the rough times1
I had a CRAP run this morning, 3 hard, wet, lead leg miles
BOO!

miguelk

Younganne wrote: »

How is everyone feeling about the plan getting closer...reality is closing in on us;)

Ya I wish the actual plan would just start already instead of me 2nd guessing if I've enough work done coming into it. I like the thought of having a plan and knowing that its been followed before and that it works! On second thoughts upped my wednesday run from 3 to 4 miles (done this morning), and my LSR to 7 this weekend so that I'm on 17 miles for the week and closing in on that 19 mile first week. Shortie_chik is gearing up for N2 also so took at bit of inspiration from her weekly log, thanks!

Also the 5 miles is going to be some intro to the plan! Getting excited about it... What pace will I run it at? Will be be banjaxed leading into week 2? Will I have a better idea what my MP is going to be after it? Will I do something stupid and go off too fast? (I'm not actually asking these questions, just thinking aloud).

One more observation, LSR's are a pain in the hole. I thought it was grand going out and running handy but I'd take easy or MP over the same distance any way of the week. Its the time on you're feet probably and my body telling me if I speed up it'd be over quicker, so just coming around to the running slow idea and its importance. Roll on June 25th/26th!

Finally, checked out a few of the experts logs last night (Youngannes, Mr. Slow) good motivator seeing the progress and adds weight to the advice given (and a bit of a wake up call for the effort involved!).

G-Money

I missed a 5.5 mile run last Saturday and I'm supposed to do a 3 mile run this Saturday so I think I will swap it around and do the 5.5 mile run instead. I need to make sure I'm not missing those longer one's.

Trampas

Nice wet 6.5km recovery run last night.

Around 6.11min/km pace.

Heart was 132 which I was like :eek:

Lowest I have ever been on a run

zooming

Younganne wrote: »

Well done Tang1, thats a great time and a good chunk to take off your previous time..keep it going and you'll see all your times coming down!




welcome to the thread..We don't worry about pace in this thread;)

This day 2 weeks we'll have week 1 run 1 over and done with!!!!
How is everyone feeling about the plan getting closer...reality is closing in on us;)

excited!!! And scared, and worried...all the range of emotions its possible to have...how many of us on here are signing up to the Dublin half in September?

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

Finally, checked out a few of the experts logs last night (Youngannes, Mr. Slow) good motivator seeing the progress and adds weight to the advice given (and a bit of a wake up call for the effort involved!).

Consistency is key, complete your first marathon, that will give you a solid aerobic base that you can build on and the sky's the limit.:)

miguelk

zooming wrote: »

excited!!! And scared, and worried...all the range of emotions its possible to have...how many of us on here are signing up to the Dublin half in September?

Ya I'm signed up for series including that one.

Originally I had left it off as I thought it was late enough in the program but changed my mind as there probably is a good few in the same boat as me doing it/following the race series.

brophya2007

I'm going to throw my name in the hat here again. I did the Dublin marathon in 2010 as part of the Rainbow Kirby team. Unfortunately I really fell off the wagon and just got back into running in the last few weeks.

So here it goes....


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes
10km - 51'33 around september 09
Half Marathon - 1h58'33
Full Marathon - 4h26'30
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
Just the odd time at the moment but getting less frequent
How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
4 days currently but low mileage
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
Goal is Sub 4
How many days a week can you train? 5-6
Why are you running this marathon? To get back into shape and try and beat my previous time.

snowman224

I'm signed up for the half marathon too...
Am really excited about the 25th coming up and getting in to the training proper.
First few weeks will be a challenge, but I'm trying to get in as many miles now without upping it too quick.

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

Ya I'm signed up for series including that one.

Originally I had left it off as I thought it was late enough in the program but changed my mind as there probably is a good few in the same boat as me doing it/following the race series.

snowman224 wrote: »

I'm signed up for the half marathon too...
Am really excited about the 25th coming up and getting in to the training proper.
First few weeks will be a challenge, but I'm trying to get in as many miles now without upping it too quick.

The Half in September will be the best indicator of how your training has gone and what kind of times you can expect in the marathon.

PDCAT

Sorry Guys - Looking to see if pace's below are correct for 3.45 marathon.
Maybe somebody with some more experience than me at marathon training can help me out.

Monday - Recovery (10.30 minute per mile)
Tuesday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Thursday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Saturday - MP (8.30 minute per mile) or Easy (9.30 per mile)
Sunday - LSR (9.30 minute per mile)

Starting training next Monday - Are my Easy run's too slow/too fast? Should my LSR's be quicker?
Just wondering if the above pace's look correct for a 3.45 marathon goal.
3.45 Pace is approx 8.36 according to mcmillan. Will run MP every second or so week according to the Intermediate Plan. LSR & Easy runs approx MP +1 and Recovery MP +2.

miguelk

Mr Slow wrote: »

The Half in September will be the best indicator of how your training has gone and what kind of times you can expect in the marathon.

I've a question on that if you don't mind.

Lets say you do the half in September on a target of 10 min miles and you do it in 2:12.

I've read from a few people that to get an estimate of your marathon time you double it and add 10% or double it and add 30 mins. so e.g. 4:54 in the latter example.

So would you lower you're PMP then to 11.xx mins per mile based on this estimate on the big day or do you plough ahead with you're planned 10 mins per mile?

Mr Slow

PDCAT wrote: »

Sorry Guys - Looking to see if pace's below are correct for 3.45 marathon.
Maybe somebody with some more experience than me at marathon training can help me out.

Monday - Recovery (10.30 minute per mile)
Tuesday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Thursday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Saturday - MP (8.30 minute per mile) or Easy (9.30 per mile)
Sunday - LSR (9.30 minute per mile)

Starting training next Monday - Are my Easy run's too slow/too fast? Should my LSR's be quicker?
Just wondering if the above pace's look correct for a 3.45 marathon goal.
3.45 Pace is approx 8.36 according to mcmillan. Will run MP every second or so week according to the Intermediate Plan. LSR & Easy runs approx MP +1 and Recovery MP +2.

LSR should be MP + 45/60 secs so you're fine there, 8:30 is spot on for MP, you could do recovery at 10 min miles but the slower the better. Easy runs should be easy!

Good luck!

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

I've a question on that if you don't mind.

Lets say you do the half in September on a target of 10 min miles and you do it in 2:12.

I've read from a few people that to get an estimate of you're marathon time you double it and add 10% or double it and add 30 mins. so e.g. 4:54 in the latter example.

So would you lower you're PMP then to 11.xx mins per mile based on this estimate on the big day or do you plough ahead with you're planned 10 mins per mile?

If you run the half as fast as you can and finish in 2:12 you will not run the same pace for double the distance a few weeks later.

Edit: The race series should shape your goal for the Half, the Half then shapes your goal for the full.

zooming

snowman224 wrote: »

I'm signed up for the half marathon too...
Am really excited about the 25th coming up and getting in to the training proper.
First few weeks will be a challenge, but I'm trying to get in as many miles now without upping it too quick.

its gonna be great!

PDCAT

Mr Slow wrote: »

LSR should be MP + 45/60 secs so you're fine there, 8:30 is spot on for MP, you could do recovery at 10 min miles but the slower the better. Easy runs should be easy!

Good luck!

Thanks Mr Slow for the info. Was fairly sure i was close to the correct pace's, was looking for reassurance before i start.

Thanks Again.

macinalli

PDCAT wrote: »

Sorry Guys - Looking to see if pace's below are correct for 3.45 marathon.
Maybe somebody with some more experience than me at marathon training can help me out.

Monday - Recovery (10.30 minute per mile)
Tuesday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Thursday - Easy (9.15 minute per mile)
Saturday - MP (8.30 minute per mile) or Easy (9.30 per mile)
Sunday - LSR (9.30 minute per mile)

Starting training next Monday - Are my Easy run's too slow/too fast? Should my LSR's be quicker?
Just wondering if the above pace's look correct for a 3.45 marathon goal.
3.45 Pace is approx 8.36 according to mcmillan. Will run MP every second or so week according to the Intermediate Plan. LSR & Easy runs approx MP +1 and Recovery MP +2.

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this is the absence of any speedwork. HH Int 1 is an 18 week plan, but it seems that not once in the 18 weeks will you go faster than 8.30 per mile (your target race pace). It seems very odd to me, but when I read the plan I see that it says:

"Speedwork? There is no speedwork involved in the Intermediate 1 program. If you feel you need speedwork to improve, check out the advanced training schedules, which offer hill training, interval training and tempo runs on different days of the week. Normally, however, I recommend that marathoners save their speedwork for times of the year when they are not doing a marathon mileage buildup. Check the shorter-distance training programs elsewhere on this web site for more on that."

I suppose the question then to the OP is whether you've done your speedwork earlier in the year? If you have, then no worries. But if you haven't, then I'd be unsure. Is this your first marathon? Have you a running background?

PDCAT

macinalli wrote: »

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this is the absence of any speedwork. HH Int 1 is an 18 week plan, but it seems that not once in the 18 weeks will you go faster than 8.30 per mile (your target race pace). It seems very odd to me, but when I read the plan I see that it says:

"Speedwork? There is no speedwork involved in the Intermediate 1 program. If you feel you need speedwork to improve, check out the advanced training schedules, which offer hill training, interval training and tempo runs on different days of the week. Normally, however, I recommend that marathoners save their speedwork for times of the year when they are not doing a marathon mileage buildup. Check the shorter-distance training programs elsewhere on this web site for more on that."

I suppose the question then to the OP is whether you've done your speedwork earlier in the year? If you have, then no worries. But if you haven't, then I'd be unsure. Is this your first marathon? Have you a running background?

Hi macinalli

This is my second marathon, completed DCM 11 in 4.13 (was aiming for sub 4)but injuries resulted in missing three weeks training last September and i suffered after 17 miles on the day. I have kept running after the marathon (4 days a week - approx 25 miles per week) Decided not to do a spring marathon so i could work more on speed. Joined F4L and done speedwork on track 1 per week with them - all my times improved due to this.

My current PBs for 10mile (1.16.XX) - dungarvan Half Marathon (1.41.XX) - connemara. Reason i did not include speedwork in this marathon plan, is that my legs tend to suffer (injuries & soreness) when i increase my mileage. Only barely made it through to the start line last year using HH Novice 1 plan so decided to use a plan with less speedwork hoping that some of the work i done earlier in the year would help.

If all goes well with regard to training and i have no injuries, i was looking to be more aggressive for spring marathon 2013.

chinguetti

As speedwork has been mentioned, anyone doing their first marathon doesn't need to do speedwork in my mind. All you need to do is get time on your feet and don't be worried about times for now, they will sort themselves out after the 10 miler/half when you have solid training done.

PDCAT, i don't do speedwork as it kills me and i get injuried too. Hasn't stopped me from doing decent times though, 67 for 10 miles and 1.28 for the half.

My solution to this is to race anything you can find under 5 miles. Not every week but once every 3/4 weeks. Look for a club need you that does races around the place that do leagues. Raheny is one that comes to mind that are all under 4 miles i think. Good running.

macinalli

I think all of that makes sense. Unlike those who are only focussed on getting around the 26.2 miles, PDCAT was looking for a time. That being the case then I think that you need to do some sort of running faster than your target race pace. If it's a case that speed work causes you trouble then racing once a month sounds like a great way of getting that in.

zooming

All this talk of speed work is making me nervous! I just plod on at my same pace, for 4 miles or 10... I'm consistently slow!!! I feel I'm way off the pace here, gulp! Am I on my own?

ecoli

zooming wrote: »

All this talk of speed work is making me nervous! I just plod on at my same pace, for 4 miles or 10... I'm consistently slow!!! I feel I'm way off the pace here, gulp! Am I on my own?

How long are you running?

There is nothing wrong with this approach especially if you are new to the sport and are looking to get around the course. When you are starting off (or relatively new to the sport) you will find that simply running will see you yield great improvement

There comes a point however where this progression begins to plateau and this is where you need to stimulate the body by other means hence this is why people stress about speedwork but too be honest Easy/steady miles will yield great improvements in the beginning

dazza21ie

zooming wrote: »

All this talk of speed work is making me nervous! I just plod on at my same pace, for 4 miles or 10... I'm consistently slow!!! I feel I'm way off the pace here, gulp! Am I on my own?

Don't worry yourself, plenty fellow plodders here! Im just hoping that a couple extra gears come the more training is done.

Martin_ie2012

zooming wrote: »

All this talk of speed work is making me nervous! I just plod on at my same pace, for 4 miles or 10... I'm consistently slow!!! I feel I'm way off the pace here, gulp! Am I on my own?

Certainly not on your own, am just doing my own thing, relatively new to running so no interest in speedwork at the minute, just want to get around the course will be enough of a challenge for this year. From the forums here sounds like there is plenty in the same boat, glad to have lots of newbies here, great for support.

corny

chinguetti wrote: »

My solution to this is to race anything you can find under 5 miles. Not every week but once every 3/4 weeks. Look for a club need you that does races around the place that do leagues. Raheny is one that comes to mind that are all under 4 miles i think. Good running.

I was just going to post about this.

I'm terrified of speedwork tbh and won't be including it in my plan. Its cost me too many injuries, the most recent of which i'm only really recovering from now after 7 months.

Just on the racing bit though. I ran the Bohermeen 5K on Saturday and since then i feel a bit stronger. I always seem to jump forward after a good short race. Ran 8 miles this evening on a route i'm very familiar with and my average HR was well below what i'd expect for the pace i was running. Felt stronger too.

Anyway, I was planning on racing little once the mileage goes up but last Saturday and your post got me thinking. Is it feasible racing often while tackling mileage you're unused to? I'd love to do it. Love short races and i'm convinced they do wonders for me but alarm bells are going off in my head thinking about running fast on fatigued legs.

Younganne

rasher_m wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the 5 mile race in the park. I'd say there'll be a real buzz around with the first race kicking off full of hopefuls. I'm not planning on actually signing up for the marathon until I know I can run 15 solid miles without feeling banjaxed and still feeling eager to forge ahead with the rest of the training.
It wont be wasted even if I dont proceed since I'm getting in good shape and i'm enjoying the runs and this forum in general.

I hate to tell you Rasher_m but after running 15miles you'll still be banjaxed and wondering Why & WTF??????

When i ran 16m for the first time, i could barely walk after it and I couldn't figure out how i would manage another 10m on top of that...but a wise old man(sorry NeilC;))more experienced runner told me that there was lots more training to do and on the day of the marathon, the crowds and the adrenaline would help me through...and he was so right...So go on, make the committment!!!:D

Pacing Mule

zooming wrote: »

All this talk of speed work is making me nervous! I just plod on at my same pace, for 4 miles or 10... I'm consistently slow!!! I feel I'm way off the pace here, gulp! Am I on my own?

Another plodder here !

My pace is a lot slower than most beginners it seems from reading through the forum. My "comfortable" pace is 10.5 - 10.8 minute miles / 6.5 - 6.75 minute kilometres. Anything faster than that isn't sustainable for too long.

I was hung up on the pace for a while and I suppose at times I still do be when I read some of the times being touted here even in this novice thread. It's like there are two tiers of novices ! Also when I read posts from people who decided to take up running and beat my best time for 5k (which took me 3 months to even be able to run 5k) on their first I do feel a bit envious. However everyones body and personal circumstances are different and I personally am carrying a stone and a half I shouldn't be.

My viewpoint at the moment is follow the HH Novice one plan with a view to getting myself used to running the distance first. I'm only running since January so I need to build a general fitness pace before I worry about speed. The more I run, the better I eat, the more weight I lose, the more comfortable I will be running = a naturally faster time. I've no idea what time I will be aiming for / realistically capable of running in the DCM and realistically won't have until September direction. Even at that won't be trying to increase pace at all - other than what happens naturally. If it's comfortable to go faster I will, if it's not comfortable I won't my goal is to get around in one piece and thoroughly enjoy the day.