Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Mr Slow

La Di Da wrote: »

Haven't figured out to 'quote' part of a posting yet.

Quote the whole post and delete what you don't want making sure to keep the QUOTE at the start and end:)

Younganne

miguelk wrote: »

Not to worry,I may pick up a copy anyway,thanks.

MEath Running group meet every wednesday evening at 7pm in Claremont Stadium. we use the track there. We are on block 2 of the program...not sure if you can still join up. Give David /Ruairi a ring
Ruairi Murphy on 046 9067337 or email rmurphy@meathcoco.ie
David McCaffrey
Community Sports Development Officer 04690 67337 / 087 9299410
dmccaffrey@meathcoco.ie
www.meathsports.ie

heres a link to the same story thats in the Indo today...i'm the one not paying attention:o

Marthastew

Younganne wrote: »

MEath Running group meet every wednesday evening at 7pm in Claremont Stadium. we use the track there. We are on block 2 of the program...not sure if you can still join up. Give David /Ruairi a ring
Ruairi Murphy on 046 9067337 or email rmurphy@meathcoco.ie
David McCaffrey
Community Sports Development Officer 04690 67337 / 087 9299410
dmccaffrey@meathcoco.ie
www.meathsports.ie

heres a link to the same story thats in the Indo today...i'm the one not paying attention:o

That's fantastic Anne, well done, you all should be very proud:)

Martin_ie2012

Anyone have any link to a site or reccommendations for good stretches, calf felt a bit tight today when running. Wore compression socks which helped a bit, just dont want to get injured.
One other question does anyone have an opinion on doing one run a week on treadmill, usually do my wednesday run on treadmill in gym, is this a good idea or does it make any difference or should i stick to the road?
cheers

rasher_m

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

Anyone have any link to a site or reccommendations for good stretches, calf felt a bit tight today when running. Wore compression socks which helped a bit, just dont want to get injured.
One other question does anyone have an opinion on doing one run a week on treadmill, usually do my wednesday run on treadmill in gym, is this a good idea or does it make any difference or should i stick to the road?

cheers

Yeah hope theres no bad reports i do all my short runs on the threadmill cause the gym is 30 secs away from me.

Dilbert75

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

Anyone have any link to a site or reccommendations for good stretches, calf felt a bit tight today when running. Wore compression socks which helped a bit, just dont want to get injured.

Can't find where it was originally posted but this is one I refer to occasionally.

BTW I wholeheartedly recommend getting a foam roller.

miguelk

Younganne wrote: »

MEath Running group meet every wednesday evening at 7pm in Claremont Stadium....

Excellent stuff, fair play Anne. I'm not that close by to Navan so I wouldn't be able to find the extra time in the week so I'll stick with the plan and the thread here but thanks for the details anyway. It more out of general interest/nosyness I was enquiring!

Dilbert75 wrote: »

pdf - this is one I refer to occasionally.
.

just what i needed, nice one

Dilbert75 wrote: »

BTW I wholeheartedly recommend getting a foam roller.
.

Is that "the stick" I hear about?

Is that a bit advanced for us joe soaps or can you tell me a little more of its benefits?

edit: thread link

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

Yeah hope theres no bad reports i do all my short runs on the threadmill cause the gym is 30 secs away from me.

This has been debated many times, here's an example.

My own feeling is that if you're going to race on the road, train on the road.

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

Is that "the stick" I hear about?

Is that a bit advanced for us joe soaps or can you tell me a little more of its benefits?

edit: thread link

This is 'The Stick' it's great for your calves in particular.

This is 'The Grid' Foam Roller, can be used on your calves but more effective on your IT Band and Quads.

This is a Sliotar, great for Glutes:eek:

This is Tiger Balm, (available in your local Chemist) get the red one work it into your calves with your thumbs over the course of a few days and you should feel great benefits.:)

If you're running, you'll benefit from having some routine involving at least some of the above.

tHE vAGGABOND

Mr Slow wrote: »

This is 'The Stick' it's great for your calves in particular.

This is 'The Grid' Foam Roller, can be used on your calves but more effective on your IT Band and Quads.

The grid may seem expensive at first, but the cheaper foam rollers only last a short while, and you need to replace them, so its €`15-20 over and over, and I have had my grid over a year now and use it most days. When I get lazy and stop using it injuries start appearing and I need to make my physio rich again! I start using agian daily, and my injuries vanish....:eek:

The Stick is brilliant, as you can easily bring it when travelling or throw it in the back of the car and give your legs some TLC, which after a 3 hour run, trust me, they will want.

They are one of the best running investments you can make.

miguelk

Mr Slow wrote: »

This is 'The Stick' ....

This is a Sliotar, great for Glutes:eek:

.

Good stuff there, thanks.

Pacing Mule

Just on the treadmill v road debate. They really are two seperate beasts. I was in tatters after my first run outside. Had spent 3 months running on treadmill only and it took me 3 days to recover from the first run on concrete. My body wasn't used to the hard surface and the shock / impact of the run had muscles I never knew I had aching. I'd try and do as many runs as possible outdoors to get your body used to it otherwise you could fall apart in the latter stages of a marathon - battling fatigue for the distance is hard enough.

As a comic aside I find it easier to run outdoors (which isn't the normal) - I find that threadmills are one dimensional. You set your speed and off you go - if it gets too fast you have to reduce speed with your finger on a button. The thing is you stay at too fast for too long - meaning that when you start to slow down you keep your finger there and slow it right down - or jump off completely. When road running your body naturally slows down / speeds up so if you need a couple of hundred metres slightly slower it just happens - leading to a longer run at a higher average speed for me. As well as that you do have the bounce back of the road to help you out. This morning I ran 5k in 29 minutes on a hilly course at a slightly varied pace. I can knock out 5k in 30 minutes outdoors easily enough now. However I would find it an awful lot harder to run for 30 min at 10kmph on a treadmill.

BeepBeep67

As a novice it's important you get your kit right on race day - but there's no need to go to extremes

joe40

Hi everyone

I am new to this forum but tentatively thinking about the marathon but not sure if it will be too much. My profile is as follows:

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) 10 K in Letterkeny on May 6th this year – 50 mins (Actually 50mins and 30 secs- the 30 secs broke my heart)
• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do! Not when I was training for the 10 k first run since then was 3 miles last night with no problems
• How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant Up until May about 3 times a week either running, Gym, or road cycling but I am in a bit of a motivation slump at the moment -
• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Dream would be sub 4 hours but just finishing be great
• How many days a week can you train? If I can get the motivation right I should be able to manage 4 times a week but might involve awkward times late evening or early morning hence the importance of “no excuses”
• Why are you running this marathon? Because it’s there. Seriously it is something I would love to do or at least attempt to do the training. If it does not work out so be it, but even to achieve a half-marathon distance would be fantastic.

I am a 42 year old male and have been fairly active for the last few years cycling mostly, but some running especially since Feb usually 4 to 5k runs 2 or 3 times a week and a few 10k runs (PB 50 mins) but very little for the last 6 weeks. I was able to run 3 miles last night with no difficulty but not sure about 6 miles at this stage.
I would be interested on any opinions - is it to late for this year? Is the marathon too ambitious?
I will start the Hal highdon programme this week see how it goes, but I would be interested on hearing what you think or any advice you might have.
Good luck to everyone with the training.

Duzzie

There is a lot of advice on treadmills v road running on here and on other threads on boards. In my opinion, do what suits you best. At the novice level that I suspect most of us are at, it is down to what gets you motivated to get off your back side and get you out running. It may be the case that for faster runners or more advanced running, road running is more appropriate but if you find it easier to motivate yourself to run on the treadmill, then that is better to run on the treadmill than not run at all.

My running is roughly 50-50 treadmill - road. I cant say that I notice a huge difference in the effort required to run similar differences, but that just me, others will say that they notice a big difference.

It is all about what gets you motivated and keeps you interested in running. Do what suits you and helps you put in the miles that you need to do to achieve your goals. Read the advice on here, think about it, then forget it all and do what suits you and there is no single "one size fits all" solution to this issue. Just run and enjoy it, however that may be.

rasher_m

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Just on the treadmill v road debate. They really are two seperate beasts. I was in tatters after my first run outside. Had spent 3 months running on treadmill only and it took me 3 days to recover from the first run on concrete. My body wasn't used to the hard surface and the shock / impact of the run had muscles I never knew I had aching. I'd try and do as many runs as possible outdoors to get your body used to it otherwise you could fall apart in the latter stages of a marathon - battling fatigue for the distance is hard enough.

As a comic aside I find it easier to run outdoors (which isn't the normal) - I find that threadmills are one dimensional. You set your speed and off you go - if it gets too fast you have to reduce speed with your finger on a button. The thing is you stay at too fast for too long - meaning that when you start to slow down you keep your finger there and slow it right down - or jump off completely. When road running your body naturally slows down / speeds up so if you need a couple of hundred metres slightly slower it just happens - leading to a longer run at a higher average speed for me. As well as that you do have the bounce back of the road to help you out. This morning I ran 5k in 29 minutes on a hilly course at a slightly varied pace. I can knock out 5k in 30 minutes outdoors easily enough now. However I would find it an awful lot harder to run for 30 min at 10kmph on a treadmill.

Yeah its weird. I do my 3 three mile runs on the threadmill. I find that I feel like I'm sprinting on it once I go to 12 kph. Even doing 11kph for 5 km is tough enough. I sweat buckets and feel wrecked.
When I do the same distance outside and get the same finish time I feel like ive been running normally without too much effort.

rasher_m

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

As a novice it's important you get your kit right on race day - but there's no need to go to extremes

Back in the eighties they just drank water and that was it

BobMac104

rasher_m wrote: »

Back in the eighties they just drank water and that was it

yep but from listening to stories " hitting the wall" was more common than it is now because thay were only on water.

neilc

rasher_m wrote: »

Yeah hope theres no bad reports i do all my short runs on the threadmill cause the gym is 30 secs away from me.

You'll be fine, I did all my midweek winter marathon training on the treadmill only getting out on the roads during weekend daylight hours. Still went on to PB on a tough Connemara course.

Martin_ie2012

joe40 wrote: »

I am a 42 year old male and have been fairly active for the last few years cycling mostly, but some running especially since Feb usually 4 to 5k runs 2 or 3 times a week and a few 10k runs (PB 50 mins) but very little for the last 6 weeks. I was able to run 3 miles last night with no difficulty but not sure about 6 miles at this stage.

I would be interested on any opinions - is it to late for this year? Is the marathon too ambitious?
I will start the Hal highdon programme this week see how it goes, but I would be interested on hearing what you think or any advice you might have.
Good luck to everyone with the training.

Hi welcome to the forum in my opinion if you can do a 50 minute 10k you have a good base of fitness and would be able for the training. Dont think its too ambitious, 10k is 6.2 miles so you can do that at least. I am a similar leavel longest race i have done is 10k and going to do marathon this year, plan has good structure and builds nicely so just going to follow that and that will get me around on the day. best of luck with it whatever you decide anyway.

Also thanks to everyone for advice re:treadmills, am probably going to ease off on treadmill as i actually prefer road running and the impact feels less on my joints. Reason I do some treadmills was for inclines but will just find some hills near me. But like others say am just going to do whatever is handiest.

Also one more question (sorry hope im not being annoying with the questions or asking questions that have been answered before but I am still new to boards in general so bear with me please ) Anyway my knee is quite sore today, dont worry am making the trip to get new runners tomorrow as I know that a big part of the problem, but to ease the pain should I use a hot or cold pack, have googled it but couldnt find a clear answer so if anyone has any advice from past experience would be much appreciated.

cheers for now

upthe19th

Training has taken a serious hit in the last week and a half...between work, family and some socialising. Not ideal.

Did 8 mile run on tuesday, trying to slow down a bit and get some consistency. Thought I was holding back a good bit but still averged about 8:20 per mile.

Have a question though. I have noticed that when i've been doing my LSR's and trying slow it up a bit, my running is heavier, feels like i'm plodding when i hold back. When i'm pushing a bit more the pace seems to keep me lighter. I have tried to conciously keep my foot fall as light as i can.

Does this make any sense? Anyone experience this and what did you do? Sorry if this seems like a silly question. Thanks in advance.

Satanta

This is a great thread and very helpfull. I have now registered for the DCM and am trying to build up a base of fitness before the plan starts. I am running slow at the moment trying to keep my heart rate low. To answer the questions:

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!).
  >>I havent raced as such but did the same 10k as joe40 in a time of 57:50
• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
  >>No
• How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
  >>I have been upping the training in the last month to build up a decent base for starting the HH plan. Doing between 15 and 25 miles a week.
• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
  >>I really dont know. I am shooting for 4:30, but secretely hoping for 4:15 or better.
• How many days a week can you train?
  >>I should be able to fit in the HH training no prob. I'll be doing a couple of days strength training in the early weeks of the plan as well. I'd like to CT by cycling on a sunday, but I dont think I'd get a visa from the other half for a Sat and a Sun.
• Why are you running this marathon?
  >>There are many reasons. It's been a goal of mine for a long time. I am very excited to be working towards that goal now.

There isnt alot more to tell really. I'm 36 and would consider myself below average fitness for cardio activity. I spent many years in the gym working on strength but neglected cardio. I started cycling last year and then running in Feb this year, and got bit by the bug. My first run was 2 miles and I wanted to stop after a mile of it. I just did 8 miles this evening and could have done more. I honestly never thought I'd be able to say that. Exciting times

corny

upthe19th wrote: »

Training has taken a serious hit in the last week and a half...between work, family and some socialising. Not ideal.

Did 8 mile run on tuesday, trying to slow down a bit and get some consistency. Thought I was holding back a good bit but still averged about 8:20 per mile.

Have a question though. I have noticed that when i've been doing my LSR's and trying slow it up a bit, my running is heavier, feels like i'm plodding when i hold back. When i'm pushing a bit more the pace seems to keep me lighter. I have tried to conciously keep my foot fall as light as i can.

Does this make any sense? Anyone experience this and what did you do? Sorry if this seems like a silly question. Thanks in advance.

I had the same thing before i learned to run slow. Sounds stupid 'learned to run slow' but the motion was heavy and awkward compared to the action of running faster. As with most things i got used to it.:)

snowman224

upthe19th wrote: »

Training has taken a serious hit in the last week and a half...between work, family and some socialising. Not ideal.

Did 8 mile run on tuesday, trying to slow down a bit and get some consistency. Thought I was holding back a good bit but still averged about 8:20 per mile.

Have a question though. I have noticed that when i've been doing my LSR's and trying slow it up a bit, my running is heavier, feels like i'm plodding when i hold back. When i'm pushing a bit more the pace seems to keep me lighter. I have tried to conciously keep my foot fall as light as i can.

Does this make any sense? Anyone experience this and what did you do? Sorry if this seems like a silly question. Thanks in advance.

Same here. Firstly i'm finding it difficult to run slower as i keep wanting to speed up to what I guess is my natural pace.
When I do hold back I get that heavy, plodding sensation too. Have done a couple of slower runs with no bad affects but they werent that long. Was just trying to get used to running slower. Will be out again tomorrow so hopefully it'll get easier.

RayCun

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

but to ease the pain should I use a hot or cold pack

R.I.C.E.

Rest
Ice
Compress
Elevate

The ice will numb the pain a bit, I, C, E all help reduce swelling.

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

R.I.C.E.

Rest
Ice
Compress
Elevate

The ice will numb the pain a bit, I, C, E all help reduce swelling.

When to Ice and when to heat.

Alanm

Over the last 3 weeks, I've manged to get into a decent routine and have clocked up around 40-45k a week (3/4 short + 1 Long). I was thinking of following Hal Hingdon Novice 2 which would mean a drop to around 30k in week 1.

So, my question is: Am I better off cutting back and starting the plan with the specified distances or can I add a few miles to each of the early weeks? Or maybe I should start the program a few weeks in and repeat weeks?

Trampas

got a few different gels today to try over the next while.

I say runs over 10 miles will give them a bash.

might stay close to home when taking them just in case it all goes wrong

upthe19th

snowman224 wrote: »

Same here. Firstly i'm finding it difficult to run slower as i keep wanting to speed up to what I guess is my natural pace.
When I do hold back I get that heavy, plodding sensation too. Have done a couple of slower runs with no bad affects but they werent that long. Was just trying to get used to running slower. Will be out again tomorrow so hopefully it'll get easier.

Glad to hear i'm not alone. Out in morning for 14 miler. Have the Strawberry half marathon next weekend. Will keep trying.

Runchick

Alanm wrote: »

Over the last 3 weeks, I've manged to get into a decent routine and have clocked up around 40-45k a week (3/4 short + 1 Long). I was thinking of following Hal Hingdon Novice 2 which would mean a drop to around 30k in week 1.

So, my question is: Am I better off cutting back and starting the plan with the specified distances or can I add a few miles to each of the early weeks? Or maybe I should start the program a few weeks in and repeat weeks?

Hi Alanm I don't know if I'm the best person to advise you but I'm in exactly the same boat. I did my longest LSR yesterday 14.4 miles and am doing a HM at week 1 and week 5 of the plan. So to follow the plan would be a step backwards. I think I'm going to jump in at Week 5 as week 1 and follow it there so my second HM will be in week 5 - but I'll be on week 9 of the plan. Then I was thinking of going back to join the plan at week 6 - so therefore cutting out weeks 1-4 and repeating 6-9. I'm not sure if this is the best approach but its all I can come up with