Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

miguelk · 24-06-2012 7:25pm

What time would you want to be on the start line and ready to go for the race series?

Dilbert75 · 24-06-2012 8:31pm

tang1|4| 24.6miles | 427.22miles | happy with my training, getting some decent miles into my legs.
NoelJ| 2| 9.14km | 89.47km| An easy week to get used to 3 runs and one long one
elPadrino| 2| 13km | 589.06km|Looking forward to the challenge
Sheba 121| 2| 12k| 86k| 6k run tonight.....could be warm out there.
career_move| 2| 12| 226 miles since I started in April| Running the marathon in aid of the Oespphageal Cancer Fund. Mum started her treatment yesterday
pansophelia| 3| 11m| 415m|On W3 Novice 2, quite like running in the rain!
Mulberry|4 |21M |Hhmmm, since when? |Am trying to increase from 4 runs a week to 5 but normal life just keeps getting in the way! Frustrating.
jprender| |||Starting next Tuesday

snowman224 |3 |18km |Not a clue |
MissMauer|3|9 miles| |Week 1 on HH1 - due for the 6 miler on Sat morning|
Dilbert75|2|13 miles| |Week 0 on HHN2 - ready for Tuesday, hoping the creaks disappear|

Found the LSR agonisingly slow this morning. PMP = 9 min/mile, so LSR pace = 9:30->10:30/mile. Really struggled to slow down to that - my regular pace seems to be more around my PMP and I keep speeding up, despite my best efforts.

One question for you experienced people: the LSR's are meant to teach your body to convert fat to energy, correct? So is it ok to be drinking spors drinks along the way or should I really be drinking water until the mileage gets up. I don't want to be reducing my need to convert fat to energy by consuming "external" energy, if that makes sense.

Mr Slow · 24-06-2012 8:45pm

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Found the LSR agonisingly slow this morning. PMP = 9 min/mile, so LSR pace = 9:30->10:30/mile. Really struggled to slow down to that - my regular pace seems to be more around my PMP and I keep speeding up, despite my best efforts.

One question for you experienced people: the LSR's are meant to teach your body to convert fat to energy, correct? So is it ok to be drinking spors drinks along the way or should I really be drinking water until the mileage gets up. I don't want to be reducing my need to convert fat to energy by consuming "external" energy, if that makes sense.

Your LSR pace should be 45 secs to a min slower than goal pace.

For your first marathon you need to work towards getting to the start line fit and healthy, I trained for Dublin last year on water, no gels or carbohydrate drinks, I pushed myself too hard, had a tough race and have been battling fatigue ever since. Take the required gels and drink whatever you need to get you through your training.

Plenty of long runs will increase your fat burning ratio and see you through.

For the rest of you, it's important to replace the carbs you burn up on a run, eat as quickly as you can after your workout, the carbs you ingest are absorbed much more quickly in the period directly after a run than at any other time. Low fat chocolate milk is tried and tested, it has the perfect balance of Protein to Carbohydrate and hits the spot if you can't face eating anything. Exercise also weakens your immune system temporarily as you become glycogen depleted, eating directly after working out helps your immune system recover.

pconn062 · 24-06-2012 9:03pm

miguelk wrote: »

What time would you want to be on the start line and ready to go for the race series?

Races start at ten, depends on your time goal, if you are running low 30's or under for the 5 mile you would want to be close to the front so getting their early would be key. I'll be in the start area from twenty to ten.

Trampas · 24-06-2012 9:14pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Races start at ten, depends on your time goal, if you are running low 30's or under for the 5 mile you would want to be close to the front so getting their early would be key. I'll be in the start area from twenty to ten.

I can never understand the lack of respect people have in races.

People who are barely above walking pace starting on the start line so everyone has to run around them.

I usually stay a good bit back but still spend the 1st mile running left and right like a drunk on the way home from a skinful.

Runchick · 24-06-2012 9:19pm

ecoli wrote: »

I think its normal when the mileage increase becomes significant any excess weight will start to come off. Each persons body "race weight" is individual and this could be just a case that you are getting back to your ideal weight (as you have said shedding the baby weight). Once your body startes to get back down to its ideal weight it will level off.

To give you some sort of comparison I had been running for years and my weight never really fluctuated yet last year I went under a new coach which saw a fairly big increase in mileage as well as an improved diet (still ate same amounts just better quality of food). The result was losing half a stone ( When fit now I am just above 9 stone so its a significant amount in relation to my size)

I wouldnt get too carried away with counting calories the main thing you should aim to do is high quality foods and enough to make sure you are fueling your body to the point where you can sustain the training (no ongoing fatigue or tiredness) make sure you are getting enough minerals and vitamins in as well (hopefully through your food but if needed suppliments can be used additionally to a balanced diet not as a substitute) You dont have to eat X amount as this is nothing more than gorging for the sake of it.

Hope this helps

Excellent advice again ecoli, many thanks, I'm totally new to this running lark and its such a great learning curve. I am so much more inclined to make healthy food choices now and think about what I'm eating. I find I have so much more energy now than before (well except for the day after a LSR!)...its a whole new world

Mr Slow · 24-06-2012 9:22pm

Trampas wrote: »

I can never understand the lack of respect people have in races.

People who are barely above walking pace starting on the start line so everyone has to run around them.

I usually stay a good bit back but still spend the 1st mile running left and right like a drunk on the way home from a skinful.

Never put down to malice what stupidity can explain.

All you can do is position yourself well, if like me you're a few rows back in a small 5k and hear 'I just hope I can finish it', then move forward.

Marthastew · 24-06-2012 9:37pm

upthe19th wrote: »

Ran the strawberry HM today. Thought it was a great success. Well organised and really enjoyed it.

The 1:45 pacers were really excellent. They really looked after us from start to finish...a class act all round.

I had a couple of warning lights come on with about 2 miles to go but finished with a pb of just over 1:44 i think it was, 5 minutes off my wexford HM time:).

Definitely could not have done it without the pacers...cheers guys.

Time to really push the miles up now. Eyes firmly fixed on DCM.

You're in great shape heading into DCM, you stayed strong all the time today.
Congrats on a fantastic PB and keep up the good work.

FiiFii · 24-06-2012 9:56pm

Hi,

Been reading this thread last few days so hoping to join in for start of the programme tomorrow!

Been 'jogging' for bout 2 and a half yrs now doing 4-8k generally (v ad hoc) until March this year when started a Half Marathon training programme with MyAsics to get ready for Clontarf Half on 7th July. Had a good training session bout a month ago and entered the DCM- looking at the training plans figure I'm gonna need a LOT of motivation to get me through this...

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
10k Mini Marathon June 2011: 1.01.20
10k Samsung Night Run April 2012: 59.01
(aiming for 2hr 10 mins in Clontarf Half - according to plan am on target)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
Depends on how hard wanna push myself...Am usually ok up to 10k if make the effort but need few stops on longer runs

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
Bout to start week 14 of 16 week MyAsics Half Marathon plan. Gradually increasing but last 3 weeks been doing 40k a week. Do Pilates once a week (found started to get problems with running when I stopped..). Longest distance to date is 18k

What do you want to achieve?
Not sure.. Was thinking around 4.30 but not sure if realistic... Figured I'll see how I get in in Clontarf and take it for there...

How many days a week can you train?
Currently doing 4 days a week so planning to continue with that but look at another activity for Sunday for the cross training bit

Why are you running this marathon?
Cos I wanna prove to myself I can do it!!! Was never a sporty / athletic person and am still v slow on the running but last few months shown me what can be done if put the effort in so wanna bring it to the next level!

Looking for bit of advice - Thinking of going with the HH Novice 2 plan seen as already worked up to the 18k distance or should I stick with plan 1 for my first time?

Deedee2012 · 24-06-2012 9:57pm

Anyone dithering over novice 1 or 2, can't decide myself, maybe something between the two?

Dilbert75 · 24-06-2012 10:12pm

Mr Slow wrote: »

Your LSR pace should be 45 secs to a min slower than goal pace.

I was working off Hal Higdon's page which actually suggests a broader band of 30-90sec/mile slower. With my PMP = 9 min/mile (3:54 target), this leaves my target LSR pace at 9:30-10:30/m (5:54 - 6.31/km). According to my watch, I averaged 6:01/km (9:41/m) over my 8 miles today, so I'm reasonably satisfied with that as a first effort. I am going to struggle to keep it slow enough though - hopefully it gets easier the more I do it.

For your first marathon you need to work towards getting to the start line fit and healthy, I trained for Dublin last year on water, no gels or carbohydrate drinks, I pushed myself too hard, had a tough race and have been battling fatigue ever since. Take the required gels and drink whatever you need to get you through your training.

Agreed. I used 8 gels in Edinburgh and drank to thirst. I ran out of gas due to heat & insufficient training but didn't hit the wall.

pansophelia · 24-06-2012 10:41pm

Deedee2012 wrote: »

Anyone dithering over novice 1 or 2, can't decide myself, maybe something between the two?

I've been running since last October and used the HH Novice Half for the Connemara Half in April. Started the Novice 2 myself a couple of weeks ago (busy summer and wanted some spare weeks) and finding it grand so far. The midweek pace runs are a bit tough at times, but its pushing me to go a bit faster, as I do tend to plod around in training. Maybe start Novice 2 and change back if it's not working for you?

sheba 121 · 24-06-2012 10:55pm

6k done tonight rest tomorrow and starting Tuesday. Best of luck to all who are starting and especially those who are doing there first marathon like me.......its a daunting thought:eek: but we hopefully will see the results as the weeks of training kick in...........;)

Younganne · 24-06-2012 11:35pm

Ok Guys & Gals, lets get this show on the Road....with a Rest day:D

Week 1 Hal Higdon Novice 1 Marathon Training Plan

Monday |Tuesday |Wednesday |Thursday |Friday |Saturday |Sunday
Rest |3m / 5km| 3m / 5km with 5 x 100m Strides* | 3m / 5km | Rest | Cross | LSR - 6m / 10km

There will be four runs every week, typically
Tuesday & Thursday are Recovery runs,
Sunday is the Long Slow Run...
Wednesday's we'll be adding something different

All runs should be at an easy pace, and the long run even easier. This weeks 6m doesn't seem like a long run and you might not see the need to go slower, but the runs get longer fairly quickly and you need to get into the habit of running the runs slow

Wednesday's we'll be adding something different like strides, tempos, PMP runs throughout the plan. But there should only be one day of faster running each week. These are an optional part of the plan, they're not part of the original Higdon plan. The faster sections on the Wednesday are just for a bit of variety. You don't have to do them, but I think they'll help

Some of you are following different programs and thats fine
Those who have started ahead of the schedule, that fine too, don't drop miles, keep at the miles you are doing until we catch up, add the Wednesday variety in if you want and make sure you have a stepback week every third week to let the body recover a bit
You don't have to do the runs on the days above.
The long run is usually on the weekend, because that's when people tend to have more time, but it can be Saturday or Sunday. You can run midweek if that works better for you.
Have at least one day of no running before your long run.
Run the Wednesday and Thursday runs on consecutive days, if not necessarily Wed and Thurs.
Cross training day can be walking, swimming, cycling, any activity that gives the running muscles a rest or it can be a rest day...you don't have to do cross training...Decide each week how you are feeling before you decide your cross day

* 5 x 100 metre strides

These are an optional part of the plan, they're not part of the original Higdon plan. Its just for a bit of variety.

For 100m strides, accelerate until you're running at 80-90% of your maximum speed, whatever that is. Hold that pace for about 100 metres (count to 15 in your head, should be close enough).

When you are running, try to focus on maintaining good running form - keep your upper body relaxed, your back straight, pull in your core muscles and head up, your arms pumping forward and back, not side to side. (If that feels like too much to think of, focus on one element in each set of strides.) Don't stop dead after the 100m, just relax back down to your regular pace.

Do your first 100m strides after about a mile/2k of running at your regular, easy pace. Wait until your breathing has recovered and you're running easily before doing your second set. Pick a stretch of road or path where you'll have a clear run when you start each set.

This should help improve your running form, making you more efficient and saving you energy on longer distance runs.

One of the reasons those strides are included is that it is very easy to end up doing all of your runs at the same pace. If you learn how to run a bit faster on some runs, maybe you'll also learn how to run slower too. It takes a bit of concentration at first, but you can slow down. And its better to start those LSRs and finish them at the same steady pace than to start off too fast and crawl in at the end.

One of the most important things to learn about running is that everything does not need to be done at quicker paces.
Faster does not always equal better. Most of your training (60-80% of weekly mileage) should be conducted at slower than race pace.
You will get the same if not more benefit from slowing your runs down as the majority of people make the mistake of running their easy days too fast. Lots of people(non novices included) run their fast runs too slow and their slow runs too fast.

Live by the following "Easy days easy, Hard days hard":D

Go into this with a positive and open mind..believe in yourself and your ability to follow the plan and finish the marathon in one piece...Time does not matter!

And Finally, Enjoy the journey.....:D

rasher_m · 25-06-2012 1:17am

What are peoples plans for training this week, considering Saturday is a race day and some people are supposed to be doing higher mileage cause theyre starting Novice 2?

miguelk · 25-06-2012 8:17am

pconn062 wrote: »

Races start at ten, depends on your time goal, if you are running low 30's or under for the 5 mile you would want to be close to the front so getting their early would be key. I'll be in the start area from twenty to ten.

Thanks Pconn. Wil be sure to be there in plenty of time.

Another question to be sure I'm ready...

For getting to the start line, do you have to approach from parkgate street direction (south) or can you come in the castleknock or Ashtown gate and walk to the line that way? i.e. will the race course be closed off for pedestrians walking to the start line.

Planning on getting the train in so will probably hop off at Ashtown station, I want to be sure i won't come across a road block.

Thanks.

RayCun · 25-06-2012 8:31am

miguelk wrote: »

For getting to the start line, do you have to approach from parkgate street direction (south) or can you come in the castleknock or Ashtown gate and walk to the line that way? i.e. will the race course be closed off for pedestrians walking to the start line.

All the usual gates are open for pedestrians.

Pacing Mule · 25-06-2012 8:55am

rasher_m wrote: »

What are peoples plans for training this week, considering Saturday is a race day and some people are supposed to be doing higher mileage cause theyre starting Novice 2?

I'm all over the place.

Because of work commitments I do my LSR on Mondays - so I would be a day or two behind the program. Normally my week will be looking like this.

Tue - Rest
Wed / Thurs / Fri Shorter runs
Sat or Sunday Rest / Cross Train
Mon - LSR

This week for the 5 Mile race I will be running it and then going straight to work.

So today (Mon) I'm meant to be knocking out a LSR as normal (not the first LSR of the plan as this for me is next Monday) but it being only 5 days to this race day I don't want to overdo things. When I took up running at the start of the year it was my goal to do this 5 miler in sub 40 min. Unfortunately this won't be happening this time round (best time in training is 48 min) I want to do my best time possible so will be having a light enough week to save up some energy with the hope of at least beating the 48 min training time. I'm looking at 3 x 2-3 mile gentle runs today, tomrrow and wednesday and then taking two rest days before the race on Saturday.

ncmc · 25-06-2012 9:56am

I had a good week last week, 4 miles – 5 miles – 4 miles and a LSR of 13.5 miles. I still need to slow down a bit on my LSR, I was averaging about 9 min 30 miles, my pmp is 9 mins, so I would need to slow down by another 10-20 seconds, but I’m getting there. Starting with week 5 of HH2 this week, think I will add some strides to my Wed run as Anne suggested.

One problem though, I was at a music festival Saturday afternoon/night and I ended up over indulging a bit. I am annoyed with myself, because I know that will impact on my training this week. Does everyone else here intend to give up alcohol for the duration of the training? I am only out once in a blue moon, but I think I am going to try and avoid drinking. I don’t want to kill myself training and then ruin it by overdoing it at the weekend

rasher_m · 25-06-2012 10:16am

ncmc wrote: »

I had a good week last week, 4 miles – 5 miles – 4 miles and a LSR of 13.5 miles. I still need to slow down a bit on my LSR, I was averaging about 9 min 30 miles, my pmp is 9 mins, so I would need to slow down by another 10-20 seconds, but I’m getting there. Starting with week 5 of HH2 this week, think I will add some strides to my Wed run as Anne suggested.

One problem though, I was at a music festival Saturday afternoon/night and I ended up over indulging a bit. I am annoyed with myself, because I know that will impact on my training this week. Does everyone else here intend to give up alcohol for the duration of the training? I am only out once in a blue moon, but I think I am going to try and avoid drinking. I don’t want to kill myself training and then ruin it by overdoing it at the weekend

For me its important that I get out now and again. I think as long as the training is consistent then it shouldn't have too much of an impact.
I went out Friday night and drank and then went on my LSR on Sunday.
I just didn't drink so much as to be laid up all day Saturday like I was the day before the mini marathon.
I still intend on enjoying a good night out with drinks without going overboard though.
There are plenty of gigs coming up and Electric Picnic as well. Its all so tempting. I'm going to pick a few and forget the rest, i'll try to train the day before so that I don't have to train the day after each gig.

snowman224 · 25-06-2012 10:39am

Have been giving that a lot of thought myself too... cant see weekend drinking happening at all if I'm gonna be doing LSR's on a Sunday.

I drink nearly every night (not getting hammered... but still regular) so it's gonna be a serious shock to the system.
Reckon I'll have a few pints on a Sunday and Thursday from now on. Seems to fit in well with the running schedule. Although I can see that the drinking will likely taper off completely as the milage increases...

Wexford1996 · 25-06-2012 10:43am

Sorry late joining the thread. Have been reading through and decided I'd join in. Have been running 6 or 7 months and did the strawberry half marathon yesterday (my second half) and came in just under 1'43. Was going ok but started to struggle after 9 miles and ended up walking about half a mile as legs cramped. Managed to get going again and was ok crossing the line. Going to try stick with the training plan and use the thread as extra motivation.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
8k 32.52 Docklands Run
10k 43.31
10 mile 77'20
Half 1'42'52

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
No, generally able to keep going.

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
3 to 4 times per week, only started running about 6 months ago and have been gradually increasing the training. Before yesterday hadn't done more than 8 or 9 miles in quiet a while.
What do you want to achieve?
First marathon so not too sure what I'm capable of, perhaps 3'30 but that might be overly ambitous.

How many days a week can you train?
Should be able to fit in 4 days a week

Why are you running this marathon?
Always wanted to run a marathon and now seems as good a time as any.

Trampas · 25-06-2012 11:37am

I think a beer a night not going to hurt but myself I will be cutting down.

I usually do my LSR on Saturday morning so as a treat have a few beers on Saturday night as Sunday is usually a quiet day for me.

Younganne · 25-06-2012 11:50am

Everything in moderation!

You'll find as the miles creep up you might be more conscious of the few drinks and you'll automatically start reducing the amount if its affecting you. Make sure you have plenty of water if you are having a drink especially the night before a run and check out High 5 Zero tabs, Electrolyte & Magnesium Sports drink, add them to water and they help rehydrate... can be bought on line or in most sports/cycles shops that do hydration...

Younganne · 25-06-2012 11:52am

rasher_m wrote: »

What are peoples plans for training this week, considering Saturday is a race day and some people are supposed to be doing higher mileage cause theyre starting Novice 2?

If you are running the Race series 5 mile this Sat, the race will be instead of the 6m/10km LSR.

Runchick · 25-06-2012 12:09pm

Trampas wrote: »

I think a beer a night not going to hurt but myself I will be cutting down.

I usually do my LSR on Saturday morning so as a treat have a few beers on Saturday night as Sunday is usually a quiet day for me.

I agree Trampas, doing a LSR is easier with the thought of a nice cold beer after! I have cut back the booze significantly because of training but still have a few before a rest day. I've worked out a training schedule around known gigs/weddings/nights out over the summer - can't be all work and no play

folan · 25-06-2012 12:10pm

Younganne wrote: »

If you are running the Race series 5 mile this Sat, the race will be instead of the 6m/10km LSR.

hey. since this is the bit smaller, I was planning on making up the difference tomorrow and thursday? im comfortable up to 8 miles as is, and ran a very tired and hung over 8 yesterday but im wondering if doing a 5 tomorrow and a 4 on thursday will be good enough, or even necessary?

Younganne · 25-06-2012 12:14pm

folan wrote: »

hey. since this is the bit smaller, I was planning on making up the difference tomorrow and thursday? im comfortable up to 8 miles as is, and ran a very tired and hung over 8 yesterday but im wondering if doing a 5 tomorrow and a 4 on thursday will be good enough, or even necessary?

not necessary, conserve your energy for the race, add in a warmup and a cool down and you can get your 8 m in!! And if thats not possible a 5m race would be equivalent to an 8m LSR in terms of effort.

snowman224 · 25-06-2012 12:19pm

I'm signed up for the 5miler on saturday too.
Should I go for a decent time, or should I air on the side of caution and just get the run done.
Have done a few 10km's over recent weeks so the distance is not a challenge.

rasher_m · 25-06-2012 12:38pm

Younganne wrote: »

If you are running the Race series 5 mile this Sat, the race will be instead of the 6m/10km LSR.

I suppose what I'm wondering is; should we train as per normal during the week...i.e; 3x3x3 before Saturday. I'm thinking of running just tuesday and wednesday.

Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

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