Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

SnailsPace

Enjoyed the race yesterday, and want to follow the plan but committed to Clontarf half marathon this saturday, does that mean i should just rest between now and saturday? Normally do two 8ks during the week and a 10 or 15k at weekend. Um, decisions....

ahnowbrowncow

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

There are buttons / tabs on the bottom of the screen. If you click on them it brings you to a new sheet. There is a seperate sheet for week 0, week 1 and week 2 at the moment.

Thanks, don't know how I missed that

Runchick

SnailsPace wrote: »

Enjoyed the race yesterday, and want to follow the plan but committed to Clontarf half marathon this saturday, does that mean i should just rest between now and saturday? Normally do two 8ks during the week and a 10 or 15k at weekend. Um, decisions....

I was in the same boat last week, I ran a half on Friday evening so the week leading up I did 3 miles Sunday, 6 miles Monday and 3 very easy miles on Tuesday. I rested wednesday and Thursday...this worked well for me as I felt well rested for the half and didn't feel I had tired legs. Having said that I might have run just as well without the monday and Tuesday run! Maybe you could do 2 shorter runs (6k or so) very early in the week?

rasher_m

SnailsPace wrote: »

Enjoyed the race yesterday, and want to follow the plan but committed to Clontarf half marathon this saturday, does that mean i should just rest between now and saturday? Normally do two 8ks during the week and a 10 or 15k at weekend. Um, decisions....

I would agree with run chick...just two short runs Monday and Tuesday about 3 miles each and maybe a brisk walk on Thursday but wouldnt train past Tuesday if you're not used to racing half marathons. It would be nice to have fresh legs on Saturday and you will cover the LSR. You could do an easy 3 mile on Sunday then to recover.

tang1

SnailsPace wrote: »

Enjoyed the race yesterday, and want to follow the plan but committed to Clontarf half marathon this saturday, does that mean i should just rest between now and saturday? Normally do two 8ks during the week and a 10 or 15k at weekend. Um, decisions....

Keep things short next week if you plan on running, few short runs as lads said. Clontarf is a lovely race, nice and flat with great pacers who are from Boards. Its an out and back route along the Coast Rd in Clontarf and is well ran, good criwd towards the finish cheering you on. Most importantly try and enjoy it. Best of luck.

ncmc

Hi all, well done to everyone who participated in the race on Saturday, some great times there! I wish I was near Dublin so I could participate in the race series, but I’ll be cheering you all on from Cork!

Just a quick question, I did a LSR of 12 miles on Sat (HH2 week 5.) I had been tired all week from one thing and another and I found I had really tired legs from about 8 miles into my LSR. Between that and running into a driving wind with rain, I was touch and go if I’d even finish! I was disappointed, because I did 13.5 miles the week before and my legs were perfect. I’m getting new trainers this week, so hopefully that will help, but I was wondering if it’s maybe time to introduce gels to my LSR? I only have 9 miles this week, but 14 the following week, so should I try a couple of gels for that run? Can anyone recommend a mild gel that won’t have me running for the nearest hedge with a handful of dock leaves :D:D???

coalshed

ncmc wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a mild gel that won’t have me running for the nearest hedge with a handful of dock leaves :D:D???

I have used High5 gels a few times now for long runs or races and found them easy enough on the stomach. The Irish Times running blog did a review of gels recently that you might find of use.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/bodyandsole/2012/06/18/tested-gels/

TinyDancer81

Hi all,
I'm going to sneak in here and hope nobody notices!
Long time lurker - 3 years in fact so decided it's about time I made myself known!
I've been running for about 2 years on and off but it's really only this year that I've really put my mind to trying to improve.

I've completed a few slow 5 and 10 km races over the last two years - all for various charities. This year I'm doing it for me and if the charities benefit by default then everyone's a winner!

Normally I run around 10 or 11 mins/mile, depending on the day - it tends to be mostly around the 11 mark when I'm plodding the roads by myself and drops to nearly 10 if I've someone with me to keep me motivated!

So... here it goes...

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5k - May 12 - 28:xx
5 mile June 12 - 50:xx
10k - June 11 - 1:03:xx

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
No, not up to 10 km - the next few weeks may be different though

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
I jumped in half way through the HH novice spring training program when everyone here was doing it and have been following each week pretty religiously since then. Have kept up with the program so far and last week completed the 3x3 miles and the 6 mile LSR.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
Completing it will be an achievement in itself. Dream finishing time would be around the 4.30 mark. Realistically if I can break 5 hrs I'll be a very happy person.

How many days a week can you train?
As many as is required

Why are you running this marathon?
Multitude of reasons including: improving fitness, getting to meet new people, trying to inspire some family members and finally - to achieve something I've wanted to do for years.

Pacing Mule

Back in from my LSR for this week / last week depending on how you look at it. I will be doing all of mine on mondays so although this will be marked as this weeks LSR on the weekly sheet it is actually last weekends a couple of days behind the rest of you.

7 miles in 1hr 12 is approx 10.25 min/miles pace.

wowzer

Good work pageant, you seemed a bit disheartened after Saturdays race. Good to see you are back on track so quickly.

snowman224

Broke the 40min barrier on the 5 miler run there on Saturday.
Really happy with that.
Was keeping a bit in the tank for the last couple of miles as they were a killer in the 10km great run, but I think one of the hills was skipped this time, and I'm probably getting fitter... found it easy enough and even borderline sprinted the last 400m.
Cant wait for training to resume tomorrow night. Long may this enthusiasm last!!!!

career_move

ncmc wrote: »

Hi all, well done to everyone who participated in the race on Saturday, some great times there! I wish I was near Dublin so I could participate in the race series, but I’ll be cheering you all on from Cork!

Just a quick question, I did a LSR of 12 miles on Sat (HH2 week 5.) I had been tired all week from one thing and another and I found I had really tired legs from about 8 miles into my LSR. Between that and running into a driving wind with rain, I was touch and go if I’d even finish! I was disappointed, because I did 13.5 miles the week before and my legs were perfect. I’m getting new trainers this week, so hopefully that will help, but I was wondering if it’s maybe time to introduce gels to my LSR? I only have 9 miles this week, but 14 the following week, so should I try a couple of gels for that run? Can anyone recommend a mild gel that won’t have me running for the nearest hedge with a handful of dock leaves :D:D???

I used the berry flavoured High5 isogel on my LSR on Sunday. I took it after 5 miles. It was easy to swallow and it tasted fine. I did another 5 miles and I don't know if it was the isogel or just the training I've been doing but had loads left at the finish and even sprinted the last 100 metres. I got mine from cyclesuperstore.ie 25 euro for 25 + free delivery. Thought that was good cause got an SiS energy gel from sub4.ie to try and it was 2.50. I used that during a 15mile run a few weeks back. It was good when I took it but I needed a good bit of water to wash it down and I felt thirsty afterwards

rasher_m

snowman224 wrote: »

Broke the 40min barrier on the 5 miler run there on Saturday.
Really happy with that.
Was keeping a bit in the tank for the last couple of miles as they were a killer in the 10km great run, but I think one of the hills was skipped this time, and I'm probably getting fitter... found it easy enough and even borderline sprinted the last 400m.
Cant wait for training to resume tomorrow night. Long may this enthusiasm last!!!!

Oddly enough I found the 5 miler on Saturday harder than the GIR for some bazaar reason. I thought that the hill on mile 4 which was continuous for the entire mile was not in the GIR? I thought we went down a steep hill back then which we didnt do last Saturday.

wowzer

Quick question on the use of gels as someone mentioned them above. If one of the purposes of your LSR is teach your body to use glycogen to fuel the run, does taking a gel kinda defeat the purpose of the LSR??

menoscemo

wowzer wrote: »

Quick question on the use of gels as someone mentioned them above. If one of the purposes of your LSR is teach your body to use glycogen to fuel the run, does taking a gel kinda defeat the purpose of the LSR??

That's a good question alright. Personally I never take gels on a training run for the reason you mention (and also the fact that they are so expensive). However I already know from previous experience which gels work for me (the ones I can stomach). So for a novice it would be good to try a few different gels on a few training runs just to know what works for you, but if possible still try to run most of your LSR's without gels.

tang1

wowzer wrote: »

Quick question on the use of gels as someone mentioned them above. If one of the purposes of your LSR is teach your body to use glycogen to fuel the run, does taking a gel kinda defeat the purpose of the LSR??

Gels are replacing the glycogen you are using up while you run, so basically your topping up the levels of glycogen you had stored in your body. You could run a marathon without the use of gels, sports drinks but it would be tougher.

Macaonbhuit

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

- 10K - 44.38 Emer Casey Memorial 20th May 2012, Youghal
- 10K - 46.08 Roscommon Carers Mini Marathon May 6th 2012
- 10K - 45.59 Four Roads Camogie Club April 1st 2012

• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!

- No

• How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant

- In the last 4 weeks: 15-30K per week, 2-3 runs or 5-7K and a long run of 8-12K (if I get to it)
- In the month prior to that: 20-40K per week, 2-3 runs of 6-8K and a 12-18K long run

I've recently backed of on longer distances due to some knee problems and new runners that seemed to make the knee problems even worse (sorted now though)

• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

- Finish first, and maybe a sub 4.00 (dare I dream?)

• How many days a week can you train?

- 4-5

• Why are you running this marathon?

- Proving to myself I can do it
- Encourage my daughter to stay fit
- Raise some money for charity
- Get a cool pic of me crossing the line

I was starting with novice 2, but have opted for novice 2 with novice 1 long runs as I haven't done many long runs in the last three weeks.

Also was wondering if anyone can point me towards good resources for warm ups, cooling down and stretching.....

And one more thing....'people' have told me to incorporate speedwork (fartleks etc.) into my marathon training. My number one aim is to finish, so I wondered if anyone had thoughts on that particular nugget ff advice

RayCun

wowzer wrote: »

Quick question on the use of gels as someone mentioned them above. If one of the purposes of your LSR is teach your body to use glycogen to fuel the run, does taking a gel kinda defeat the purpose of the LSR??

You're training yourself to burn fat as well as glycogen. Fat burning is less efficient, but you don't store enough glycogen to get all the way around the marathon. You want your energy to come from mostly glycogen and some fat, from the very start of the race, rather than glycogen to 18/20 miles and fat to the end. If you run out of glycogen completely then you hit the wall - your energy levels drop, your pace slows, and your race is effectively over.

When you go on a long run without taking gels, the point is not to hit the wall and go through it. It's not about 'getting used to the sensation'. It's about running at the correct pace from the start, slow enough to burn some fat all along so you don't run out of glycogen. If your body gets used to that on your training runs it will do the same in the marathon.

dazza21ie

RayCun wrote: »

You're training yourself to burn fat as well as glycogen. Fat burning is less efficient, but you don't store enough glycogen to get all the way around the marathon. You want your energy to come from mostly glycogen and some fat, from the very start of the race, rather than glycogen to 18/20 miles and fat to the end. If you run out of glycogen completely then you hit the wall - your energy levels drop, your pace slows, and your race is effectively over.

When you go on a long run without taking gels, the point is not to hit the wall and go through it. It's not about 'getting used to the sensation'. It's about running at the correct pace from the start, slow enough to burn some fat all along so you don't run out of glycogen. If your body gets used to that on your training runs it will do the same in the marathon.

So are you saying we should not take gels on the long runs?

wowzer

Thanks meno and tang, I have used gels in a half marathon and lsr so I already know what suits me.. lately I have stopped using them on my lsr mostly because they are bloody expensive and have noticed that there has been no difference performance wise although I'm sure ill have to reintroduce them when the lsr gets longer.

RayCun

dazza21ie wrote: »

So are you saying we should not take gels on the long runs?

I'm saying you shouldn't run at a pace that will cause you to need a gel

But if you're planning to take gels in the marathon (and I would) then you should take some on your LSRs. You'll need to work out how to carry them, how to eat them on the run and, most importantly, which kinds give you an energy boost but no stomach problems.

doledude86

Younganne or Ray,

Was just wondering is there any threads around about marathon diets and what I should/shouldnt be eating..

Mccarti4

Went out for run this evening and did half of it on grass (I usually just stick to the road). I found that it was actually much harder to run on the grass compared to the paved road. Just wondering if that's other peoples experience or if there's something I'm doing wrong?

Pacing Mule

Our "little" community is not so little anymore

We now have 63 names on the sheet. (4 of these have yet to log any runs but I have pm'd them making them aware of the sheet earlier today)

In Week 0 (18/06/2012 to 24/06/2012) we collectively logged over a 1000 miles :eek: That's a great milestone to reach (pun intended!)

Week 1 (25/06/2012 to 01/07/2102) is already at 966 miles and there are still a few members to log that week so it's fairly certain that we will have logged over 2000 miles in 2 weeks.

I've added in a line at the bottom of the the sheet calculating the average mileage covered per person who has actually entered data. This will give everyone an idea of where they are or not versus the group. Obviously we're not all going to be aiming for the mileage that Wowzer and Tang are knocking out but you should be aiming to be close enough to the average mileage as each week progresses. If you are falling far behind this on a constant basis you may be under training.

In Week 0 the average mileage covered was 17.18 miles.

In Week 1 the average (so far) is 17.57 miles.

La Di Da

doledude86 wrote: »

Younganne or Ray,

Was just wondering is there any threads around about marathon diets and what I should/shouldnt be eating..

I second Doledude's query. I was going to invest in this book, but the reader review put me right off:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nancy-Clarks-Food-Guide-Marathoners/dp/1841263222/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341258844&sr=1-3

SnailsPace

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Our "little" community is not so little anymore

We now have 63 names on the sheet. (4 of these have yet to log any runs but I have pm'd them making them aware of the sheet earlier today)

In Week 0 (18/06/2012 to 24/06/2012) we collectively logged over a 1000 miles :eek: That's a great milestone to reach (pun intended!)

Week 1 (25/06/2012 to 01/07/2102) is already at 966 miles and there are still a few members to log that week so it's fairly certain that we will have logged over 2000 miles in 2 weeks.

I've added in a line at the bottom of the the sheet calculating the average mileage covered per person who has actually entered data. This will give everyone an idea of where they are or not versus the group. Obviously we're not all going to be aiming for the mileage that Wowzer and Tang are knocking out but you should be aiming to be close enough to the average mileage as each week progresses. If you are falling far behind this on a constant basis you may be under training.

In Week 0 the average mileage covered was 17.18 miles.

In Week 1 the average (so far) is 17.57 miles.

Hi PM,

Any chance you could look at the formulas under my name - they look wrong from week 1 onwards

Thanks

Deedee2012

Mccarti4 wrote: »

Went out for run this evening and did half of it on grass (I usually just stick to the road). I found that it was actually much harder to run on the grass compared to the paved road. Just wondering if that's other peoples experience or if there's something I'm doing wrong?

I find the same, I hate running on grass, it feels like wading through water to me.

Deedee2012

Is it just me or is everyone obsessed with the training? If I'm not running I'm wishing I was running/thinking about running/reading about running or perusing this thread. I'm boring the pants off everyone at home!! Dee

Pacing Mule

SnailsPace wrote: »

Hi PM,

Any chance you could look at the formulas under my name - they look wrong from week 1 onwards

Thanks

Hi there

What's your concerns with it ? (Throwing that smilie in because no matter how I wrote that question it sounded like I was having a tantrum) I can't see anything obviously wrong from here.

Edit - I see it now - your total km covered was blanked out. Sorry hadn't scrolled across the screen - fixed now.

Pacing Mule

Deedee2012 wrote: »

Is it just me or is everyone obsessed with the training? If I'm not running I'm wishing I was running/thinking about running/reading about running or perusing this thread. I'm boring the pants off everyone at home!! Dee

Not just you