Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

menoscemo

sheba 121 wrote: »

I do run a little quicker in races but never top speed, or for me a speed that would put me under severe pressure. I just dont enjoy running that way.

No-one enjoys running that way (at the time), believe me even the race winners suffer hell during a race.
That said there is no bigger buzz in running than crossing a finish line of a race knowing you have given it your all and you couldn't have went a second faster. You might be surprised about what you are capable of.

rasher_m

menoscemo wrote: »

No-one enjoys running that way (at the time), believe me even the race winners suffer hell during a race.
That said there is no bigger buzz in running than crossing a finish line of a race knowing you have given it your all and you couldn't have went a second faster. You might be surprised about what you are capable of.

Or no bigger pain in the arse than giving it your all and not improving

menoscemo

rasher_m wrote: »

Or no bigger pain in the arse than giving it your all and not improving

Tell me about it

La Di Da

ncmc wrote: »

Feeling a bit deflated about the whole thing this week to be honest. I think it started the weekend before last, when I had a fair bit to drink/late night/lot of travelling. I felt sluggish all last week, culminating in a very tough lsr of 12 miles, which was disappointing as I had done 13.5 miles with no problem the previous week. I was sick at the start of this week and ended up in A&E all Monday night with severe abdominal pain. I’m fine now, but missed my Tuesday run. Went for 4 miles last night and once again, felt very sluggish.

I have 6 mile pace run tonight and for the first time in a long time, I am really dreading it. I know I’ll probably be back on track in the next week or so, but just feel pretty down and disillusioned with the whole thing at the moment. I presume that having the odd bad week is par for the course? I had been doing so well and feeling great, so I want to get my mojo back asap!

Be nice to yourself. Take the evening off, put the feet up and re-group. You're way ahead anyway.

chinguetti

Folks, sometimes loads of miles work for some to get faster, sometimes it doesn't. Everyone is different, loads of miles injury me but i can survive up to half marathon with decent times imo.

However come 20 miles in a marathon, the wheels begin to come off for me. Its a tricky balance and something that takes a while to get to know whats suits YOU. Training plans will get you so far but its a plan for everyone, not for you which you have to remember.

If you continue after October running, you'll learn so much to put to the next lot of races you do in late 2012/2013, you'll be flying. Just stick with it and don't despair. It just takes time.

Pacing Mule

ncmc wrote: »

Feeling a bit deflated about the whole thing this week to be honest. I think it started the weekend before last, when I had a fair bit to drink/late night/lot of travelling. I felt sluggish all last week, culminating in a very tough lsr of 12 miles, which was disappointing as I had done 13.5 miles with no problem the previous week. I was sick at the start of this week and ended up in A&E all Monday night with severe abdominal pain. I’m fine now, but missed my Tuesday run. Went for 4 miles last night and once again, felt very sluggish.

I have 6 mile pace run tonight and for the first time in a long time, I am really dreading it. I know I’ll probably be back on track in the next week or so, but just feel pretty down and disillusioned with the whole thing at the moment. I presume that having the odd bad week is par for the course? I had been doing so well and feeling great, so I want to get my mojo back asap!

Time for another echo for you.

I'm not surprised whatsoever you're feeling it at the moment. You are literally miles ahead of the program. (last week your mileage was the equivalent of week 7 on the program) I also know from personal experience of getting sick how much it takes out of you. I ended up with a viral infection 3 months ago which took me the guts of 4 weeks to get back to feeling as comfortable as I had previously. Knocking out 4 miles a couple of days after requiring a hospital visit and then a 12 mile LSR that weekend is a huge ask IMO.

I don't know how long you are running or how recently you stepped up to the longer mileage but sometimes going too far too soon can lead to fatigue, injury and general illness. You have more than enough padding in your weekly mileages to take a couple of very easy weeks and give yourself time to recover. You won't lose any fitness taking a couple of slower less mileage weeks now, won't be falling behind the program (you'd still be ahead of it actually) and would give your body the time it needs to recover. You'll feel so much better for it.

Macaonbhuit

With all the focus on making sure we run our LSR's slow/easy, does anyone have any comment on running the 10K, 10Mile and 1/2 marathon at the fullest of tilts? Is that ok, or should we be treating these races as easy runs to keep strictly in line with training?

menoscemo

Macaonbhuit wrote: »

With all the focus on making sure we run our LSR's slow/easy, does anyone have any comment on running the 10K, 10Mile and 1/2 marathon at the fullest of tilts? Is that ok, or should we be treating these races as easy runs to keep strictly in line with training?

Run the races as fast as possible.
You get good racing experience and get a better idea of what time you are capable of in the marathon. You can start to base your training paces more accurately based on race results. No point in paying to enter a race just to run it easy.

Macaonbhuit

menoscemo wrote: »

Run the races as fast as possible.
You get good racing experience and get a better idea of what time you are capable of in the marathon. You can start to base your training paces more accurately based on race results. No point in paying to enter a race just to run it easy.

Thanks menoscemo... I kind of figured that, just worried that I'd be risking doing myself some damage.. Really want to get to start line in good shape...

Martin_ie2012

had a good 3 mile run tonight, after my research yesterday, thanks to being pointed to the mcmillan calculator. Went off with a planned pace, much slower than what i had been doing and after the first mile was great, felt really good. Definitely does take a bit of practice, running slow, and have to think about it, but i had loads of energy left at the end of the run. Looking forward to my 7 mile LSR on Saturday now.

rasher_m

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Time for another echo for you.

I'm not surprised whatsoever you're feeling it at the moment. You are literally miles ahead of the program. (last week your mileage was the equivalent of week 7 on the program) I also know from personal experience of getting sick how much it takes out of you. I ended up with a viral infection 3 months ago which took me the guts of 4 weeks to get back to feeling as comfortable as I had previously. Knocking out 4 miles a couple of days after requiring a hospital visit and then a 12 mile LSR that weekend is a huge ask IMO.

I don't know how long you are running or how recently you stepped up to the longer mileage but sometimes going too far too soon can lead to fatigue, injury and general illness. You have more than enough padding in your weekly mileages to take a couple of very easy weeks and give yourself time to recover. You won't lose any fitness taking a couple of slower less mileage weeks now, won't be falling behind the program (you'd still be ahead of it actually) and would give your body the time it needs to recover. You'll feel so much better for it.

Yeah more or less the same thing happened me, was sick and fatiqued and went out running too soon after the illness. I actually knew that evening that I was still not 100%. I ended up falling and going to A&E. I got 10 stitches in my nose and my knee was banjaxed for 8 months afterwards. It pays to take it easy. I went out cause I thought I wouldnt get enough training in, ended up out of action for all those months.

sheba 121

menoscemo wrote: »

No-one enjoys running that way (at the time), believe me even the race winners suffer hell during a race.
That said there is no bigger buzz in running than crossing a finish line of a race knowing you have given it your all and you couldn't have went a second faster. You might be surprised about what you are capable of.

I tried running fast when I started running.......I soon learnt from my lack of running knowledge............it was a disaster....so I found Boards after some internet searching and started running all my training runs slow. This has paid off and I am now quite disciplined. I will get the distance in my legs first and then work on speed.

Also there is a good chance I might not be made for speed.......:D

Younganne

sheba 121 wrote: »

I tried running fast when I started running.......I soon learnt from my lack of running knowledge............it was a disaster....so I found Boards after some internet searching and started running all my training runs slow. This has paid off and I am now quite disciplined. I will get the distance in my legs first and then work on speed.

Also there is a good chance I might not be made for speed.......:D

Sheba 121, This is exactly what happens lots of people, but many don't slow down and end up getting fed up and giving up... well done foe seeing the light in time:D
i did my first two marathons using HH novice 1 and had only 1 speed, slow/easy, whatever you want to call it. I enjoyed both of these experiences and had no injuries or problems during training and in the marathons themselves i had great experiences, never hit "the wall" becasue all my runs were slow and my body was able to look after itself when it needed to.
times were 4.41 in 2010 and 4.27 in 2011, this year speed work has been added and my aim is 3.59...but it has taken me 3 years running before i started adding speed, hills & intervals etc

Keep your paces slow and enjoy the experience...speed will come in time!!!

Younganne

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

So annoyed just found it i cant get the time off work for the 10 mile, am also going to miss 10k as I am away that weekend. Not too bothered about missing 10k but really wanted to do 10 mile as I have never raced that distance before and felt it would have been a good gauge for me. Anyway my question is I have discovered a half marathon on the 19th August in clonmel. What do those in the know think about me doing this. According to Hals novice 1 plan, that week has a half marathon for the sunday so if fits in perfectly with the plan. I was going to skip this and just follow the advice on the forum for that week as two long races in two weeks would have been a lot for a novice like me. I guess I'm just wondering do you think that the half is a good idea or should i just do the dublin half? Thanks

MArtin there is a 10m race in Slane the week before the one in Dublin, it starts at 11.30 in Slane castle on 19th Aug, if thats any good to you....just google it and he details will come up..

ncmc wrote: »

Feeling a bit deflated about the whole thing this week to be honest. I think it started the weekend before last, when I had a fair bit to drink/late night/lot of travelling. I felt sluggish all last week, culminating in a very tough lsr of 12 miles, which was disappointing as I had done 13.5 miles with no problem the previous week. I was sick at the start of this week and ended up in A&E all Monday night with severe abdominal pain. I’m fine now, but missed my Tuesday run. Went for 4 miles last night and once again, felt very sluggish.

I have 6 mile pace run tonight and for the first time in a long time, I am really dreading it. I know I’ll probably be back on track in the next week or so, but just feel pretty down and disillusioned with the whole thing at the moment. I presume that having the odd bad week is par for the course? I had been doing so well and feeling great, so I want to get my mojo back asap!

ncmc, as others have said you need to take a step back and take an easy week..have you been following the plan, every 3rd week should be a stepback week where you do less mileage...

Rest is a vital part of the program too, so take it easy for a week and see how you are feeling next week and take back up where you are, do 3 x 3 m easy and a 6m slower, your body will thank you for it.... remember you need to be enjoying the running too, when it starts feeling like a Chore its time to easy up a bit!!!

sheba 121

Younganne wrote: »

Sheba 121, This is exactly what happens lots of people, but many don't slow down and end up getting fed up and giving up... well done foe seeing the light in time:D
i did my first two marathons using HH novice 1 and had only 1 speed, slow/easy, whatever you want to call it. I enjoyed both of these experiences and had no injuries or problems during training and in the marathons themselves i had great experiences, never hit "the wall" becasue all my runs were slow and my body was able to look after itself when it needed to.
times were 4.41 in 2010 and 4.27 in 2011, this year speed work has been added and my aim is 3.59...but it has taken me 3 years running before i started adding speed, hills & intervals etc

Keep your paces slow and enjoy the experience...speed will come in time!!!

This is what I am hoping for. Running for me is a long term activity. Both mid week training runs and races. I enjoy them all. I've seen people who have taken up running after me, getting injured over and over because they put their bodies under so much pressure to knock a few mins of their previous race time. Boards has been my training manual over the last year, so much so that this is where I came to get the guidance for my marathon training.

Great advice from people who have used the plan, learnt from previous runners and crossed the line. Hopefully that will be me and everybody else here come October the 29th..........:D

Mrs Noc

Runchick wrote: »

Hi jinxremoving I sometimes do this and actually sleep in my running gear (bar shoes;)) - I find I don't talk myself out of it that way! I grab a banana and drink some water and head straight out, no warm up - just stretch when I get back. I wake up properly after the first mile or so! Its great to get it out of the way nice and early but I agree that its tougher, I run better after a day of food and hydration...

I prefer running early in the morning before the rest of the family gets up or on a weekday before work. Don't usually eat beforehand unless it's a LSR. Yesterday I did the 3 mile run as part of the plan and an extra 1 hour cross-training session. I didn't get as much out of the second session as I'd have liked. Next time, I'm doing one of these CT sessions, I'll do an easy run in the evening.

ncmc

Younganne wrote: »

ncmc, as others have said you need to take a step back and take an easy week..have you been following the plan, every 3rd week should be a stepback week where you do less mileage...

Rest is a vital part of the program too, so take it easy for a week and see how you are feeling next week and take back up where you are, do 3 x 3 m easy and a 6m slower, your body will thank you for it.... remember you need to be enjoying the running too, when it starts feeling like a Chore its time to easy up a bit!!!

Thanks Younganne, I’m on week 6 of the Novice 2 (will be repeating weeks 5-9) I did a 6 mile pace run last night and once I got warmed up, I was actually fine. I’m due to do a 4 mile easy tonight and a LSR of 9 miles on Sunday (this week is a step back week). I may skip tonights run and rest my legs for the LSR on Sunday, I’ll see how I feel later, I haven’t been sleeping well this week to cap it off! I know you’re right, I need to be less rigid about the plan and listen to my body more. I’m conscious that my LSR next week is 14 miles, so want to be fresh for that.

Isn’t it funny, I’d scold someone else if they were pushing too hard, but yet do it myself against all advice! It’s funny how we know the advice and theory but when it comes to applying it to our own situation, we can ignore it!

Deedee2012

Three runs done so far this week, club sessions Tues and Thurs and an easy three miles on Wed. When I joined this thread I asked could I still do the club sessions and integrate them into the plan, I think the time has come to cut back on them and do more easy miles. Tuesday was mile warm up, 2.5 miles hard hill repeats and a mile cooldown, last night was a hard fartlek, result sore knee this morning! I think I'm going to ditch any speedwork and just do any hill runs and LSR's with the club otherwise I'm just asking for injury. Hope the knee settles down before Sunday for my LSR. I love the LSR's and hate speedwork anyway, think I'm built for slow and steady! Dee

bren69

menoscemo wrote: »

No-one enjoys running that way (at the time), believe me even the race winners suffer hell during a race.
That said there is no bigger buzz in running than crossing a finish line of a race knowing you have given it your all and you couldn't have went a second faster. You might be surprised about what you are capable of.

I ran Connemara HM in April and as it was my first run at that distance I was very conscious not to start off too fast as I didn't want to struggle/walk towards the end. The first couple of miles I ran at an easy pace then found a comfortable pace and plodded on. My average pace was 8:51 min/mile for the run but was fairly comfortable throughout.

Garmin link - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/163888176

I feel I could run my next half marathon at a quicker pace. Should I pick a target pace, say 8:15 min/mile and try to stick to that? Or based on the garmin link, do you think 8:15 is too soft (or unrealistic) bearing in mind that since April I have continued training?

Is it just experience which allows you to know what pace to set yourself?
If I race (rather than run) my next HM I'll have a better idea of a target time for DCM and be able to pace my training runs accordingly.

menoscemo

bren69 wrote: »

I ran Connemara HM in April and as it was my first run at that distance I was very conscious not to start off too fast as I didn't want to struggle/walk towards the end. The first couple of miles I ran at an easy pace then found a comfortable pace and plodded on. My average pace was 8:51 min/mile for the run but was fairly comfortable throughout.

Garmin link - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/163888176

I feel I could run my next half marathon at a quicker pace. Should I pick a target pace, say 8:15 min/mile and try to stick to that? Or based on the garmin link, do you think 8:15 is too soft (or unrealistic) bearing in mind that since April I have continued training?

Is it just experience which allows you to know what pace to set yourself?
If I race (rather than run) my next HM I'll have a better idea of a target time for DCM and be able to pace my training runs accordingly.

Connemarra is a tough Half Marathon so 1;57 there is probably good for a low 1:50's in another half, but with 3 more months training behind you I am sure you are even fitter again.

I don't know what to tell you in terms of what your target might be, but Have you ran any races lower than HM, like a 5k-5 mile or 10K? They should give you a good indicator of a target for a HM.

I will generally always have a target for a race and pace accordingly but the target comes from a previous time I ran that distance or from a Time I raced over a different distance.

Pacing Mule

Picked up a minor groin strain (self diagnosed!) during the 5 mile race on Saturday. Have had three runs since with no major pain but it's niggling at me afterwards. Woke up during the night with a bit of pain again so I'm sitting out the next couple of days and giving things a chance to heal.

snowman224

Really, really sorry if this was answered before but I've been on this forum for a few weeks and can't remember it being mentioned...

Is there a reason why the suggested weekly plan has the cross training and LSR on Saturday and Sunday respectively, rather than the other way round as on the official HH Novice 1 plan?

Pacing Mule

snowman224 wrote: »

Really, really sorry if this was answered before but I've been on this forum for a few weeks and can't remember it being mentioned...

Is there a reason why the suggested weekly plan has the cross training and LSR on Saturday and Sunday respectively, rather than the other way round as on the official HH Novice 1 plan?

It's pretty much all interchangeable to suit your own needs. Ideally you would take a rest day after your LSR and do the three short runs back to back to simulate running on tired legs. In my case I run my LSR on Mondays and mix up the cross training depending on my weekend plans so my week looks like

Mon - LSR
Tue - Rest
Wed - Fri The 3 shorter runs
Sat -Rest or Cross
Sun - Rest or Cross

career_move

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Picked up a minor groin strain (self diagnosed!) during the 5 mile race on Saturday. Have had three runs since with no major pain but it's niggling at me afterwards. Woke up during the night with a bit of pain again so I'm sitting out the next couple of days and giving things a chance to heal.

Hard luck man:( If you give it a chance now though it might not keep you out for too long:)

tang1

Unless Adidas invent a supportive running welly or i learn to run on water in the next few hours there wont be any run for me this evening. Monsoon rain in my part of Meath:eek:. Did someone say something about it being summer:rolleyes:

bren69

menoscemo wrote: »

Connemarra is a tough Half Marathon so 1;57 there is probably good for a low 1:50's in another half, but with 3 more months training behind you I am sure you are even fitter again.

I don't know what to tell you in terms of what your target might be, but Have you ran any races lower than HM, like a 5k-5 mile or 10K? They should give you a good indicator of a target for a HM.

I will generally always have a target for a race and pace accordingly but the target comes from a previous time I ran that distance or from a Time I raced over a different distance.

Thanks menoscemo. I haven't done any other shorter races. There is a 10km locally next Sunday so I am now going to race that instead of planned LSR.

menoscemo

bren69 wrote: »

Thanks menoscemo. I haven't done any other shorter races. There is a 10km locally next Sunday so I am now going to race that instead of planned LSR.

That sounds like a good idea. If you do a nice mile or 2 very easy warm up it will not only help your race but also mean that you don't even cut the mileage on your LSR. You can also do an easy mile cool down after the race and it will help your recovery.

Once you get your time you can plug it in to the mcmillan calculator and it will give you a target time for the half. Most find the calculator to be very accurate up to half marathon distance (though the marathon predictions can be wildly optimistic, especially for Novices).

bren69

menoscemo wrote: »

That sounds like a good idea. If you do a nice mile or 2 very easy warm up it will not only help your race but also mean that you don't even cut the mileage on your LSR. You can also do an easy mile cool down after the race and it will help your recovery.

Once you get your time you can plug it in to the mcmillan calculator and it will give you a target time for the half. Most find the calculator to be very accurate up to half marathon distance (though the marathon predictions can be wildly optimistic, especially for Novices).

Thanks. Well my LSR that weekend is 6 miles (in HH Nov 2) but sounds like the warm-up and cool down is a good idea anyway.

Runchick

This is one for the girls...I went on my LSR tonight - 9 miles (HHN2 week 6) and was fine until about mile 7 when I realised I really needed the loo! Oh boy how I wished I was male at that point...I toyed with the idea of disappearing behind a hedge a few times but felt my luminous running top made me stand out too much :eek: The drink in my hand swishing about got quickly discarded and my nice easy 10.15 min mile pace was obliterated as I legged it home running the last few miles at 9.30min mile, driven by the urgency to relieve my bladder!! Oh what a relief it was to get home

This is really the first time I've had this - I ran a half marathon last week without needing to go. So what do girls do, are you braver than me and just duck behind a hedge? I assume there are toilets during DCM? Are they in plenty supply or can you find yourself having to queue mid race? Hadn't thought about factoring toilet breaks in to my race plan

SnailsPace

Good luck to anyone doing the Clontarf Half Marathon in the morning... I know im sh1ting it, never ran that far before..