Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Donal112

ncmc wrote: »

Welcome to the thread Donal, you are well ahead of most of us here, so I’m sure you won’t have any problems!

I would be interested to know what mistakes you felt you made last year and what changes you would make to this years training?

I was talking to a guy I know over the weekend who did the DCM a few years ago. He followed the HH2 plan and followed it to the letter. He never missed a run and felt in great shape coming into the marathon, he was aiming for round the 4 hour mark. Similarly to you, the wheels came off at about 20 miles and he limped/struggled home in 4 hours 26 and ended up needing treatment from the ambulance crew! Another guy I know did his first marathon in Cork in June, was aiming for 3.45 and again, wheels came off and he did it in 4.05.

I think talking to them has made me re-evaluate my whole sub 4 target, more than anything I want to enjoy the experience and be able to walk at the end of it! I think a mistake a lot of newbies make is setting an ambitious time target and end up feeling disappointed at the end when they should feel amazingly proud! Hal Higdon keeps hammering it home that you shouldn’t have a time in mind for your first marathon and I think I am starting at last to listen to his advice (and the experts on here who I think will say the same thing)

Cheers ncmc,

I suppose I would say that the main mistake I made was mostly running all my runs at marathon pace. I didn't really get the slow run logic, so I had never run for more than about 3 hours before the marathon and was always a bit wrecked from all my runs. Also presumably that meant my body was always using glycogen instead of fat, which hopefully was a factor in running out of steam. So this year I am following all the rules re run speeds and only doing 1 pace run a week.

Also, I ran a 20 miler 2 weeks before the marathon instead of 3 cos I had to mix the plan up a bit so I think my legs were still a bit tired from that. While you have to chop and change the plan a bit to fit in with life I will definitely be making sure I start the taper from 3 weeks out this year.

Also, and I don't know if anyone else who ran last year or the pacers would agree, but I was a bit over-whelmed by the sheer numbers running and especially in the 4-hour pace group anyway found that the race didn't really thin out for miles, other side of the Phoenix Park anyway. I felt I was jostling for space for miles, which definitely used up a lot of energy, and I missed the first water station because of the congestion so migh start with a bottle in hand this year.

All in, not going to do a whole lot different except follow the plan more diligently, obey the pace rules, not skip as many runs as I did last year, and just hope the wheels stay on for a few miles longer

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I'm in the same boat completely.

I am bordering on obsessive trying to work out what pace I need to be like to hit sub 4:30, sub 4:15, sub 4:00 etc and you're 100% right. Disappointment is sure to follow. Am trying my best currently to put all thoughts of times to one side and concentrate on finishing and being happy just to finish.

Toatlly agree, I was obsessed with times and mile splits, etc. So even though I ran a good first marathon and really enjoyed the whole experience, I was definitely a bit disappointed at the end to finish over my 4 hrs traget. When in reality I was entering into the complete unknown and should have finished buzzing with the sense of acheivement of finishing my first marathon!

Trampas

I have been invited to a stags on 26th to 28th of Oct :eek: Should be fun.

It is ok i am giving it a miss.

Even though it is my 1st marathon I think people need to set themselves a target at the start and then adjust the target as the weeks progress. Otherwise you could end up getting stuck in a pace.

That target could be 2hours 30mins or 6hours but it is a target all the same.

RayCun

You should definitely have a target when you're on the start line, because if you just run by feel you'll go too fast. You need to know that 4.30 is 10 minute miles (roughly), and if you go through the first mile marker in 9 minutes you should slow down.

rasher_m

Donal112 wrote: »

Cheers ncmc,

I suppose I would say that the main mistake I made was mostly running all my runs at marathon pace. I didn't really get the slow run logic, so I had never run for more than about 3 hours before the marathon and was always a bit wrecked from all my runs. Also presumably that meant my body was always using glycogen instead of fat, which hopefully was a factor in running out of steam. So this year I am following all the rules re run speeds and only doing 1 pace run a week.

Also, I ran a 20 miler 2 weeks before the marathon instead of 3 cos I had to mix the plan up a bit so I think my legs were still a bit tired from that. While you have to chop and change the plan a bit to fit in with life I will definitely be making sure I start the taper from 3 weeks out this year.

Also, and I don't know if anyone else who ran last year or the pacers would agree, but I was a bit over-whelmed by the sheer numbers running and especially in the 4-hour pace group anyway found that the race didn't really thin out for miles, other side of the Phoenix Park anyway. I felt I was jostling for space for miles, which definitely used up a lot of energy, and I missed the first water station because of the congestion so migh start with a bottle in hand this year.

All in, not going to do a whole lot different except follow the plan more diligently, obey the pace rules, not skip as many runs as I did last year, and just hope the wheels stay on for a few miles longer



Toatlly agree, I was obsessed with times and mile splits, etc. So even though I ran a good first marathon and really enjoyed the whole experience, I was definitely a bit disappointed at the end to finish over my 4 hrs traget. When in reality I was entering into the complete unknown and should have finished buzzing with the sense of acheivement of finishing my first marathon!

Thanks for the heads up, we need advice like this!

rasher_m

RayCun wrote: »

You should definitely have a target when you're on the start line, because if you just run by feel you'll go too fast. You need to know that 4.30 is 10 minute miles (roughly), and if you go through the first mile marker in 9 minutes you should slow down.

So I suppose what you're saying is dont set the target at a time you won't be capable of running for 26 miles.

RayCun

rasher_m wrote: »

So I suppose what you're saying is dont set the target at a time you won't be capable of running for 26 miles.

Or, even if you don't have a target, have a rough idea of what you're capable of on a good day, and make sure you don't go faster than that.

In your first marathon - or first race at any distance - there's no harm in being conservative, finishing strong and feeling good. Then the next time you can race it.

pistol_75

Donal112 wrote: »

Cheers ncmc,

I suppose I would say that the main mistake I made was mostly running all my runs at marathon pace. I didn't really get the slow run logic, so I had never run for more than about 3 hours before the marathon and was always a bit wrecked from all my runs. Also presumably that meant my body was always using glycogen instead of fat, which hopefully was a factor in running out of steam. So this year I am following all the rules re run speeds and only doing 1 pace run a week.

Toatlly agree, I was obsessed with times and mile splits, etc. So even though I ran a good first marathon and really enjoyed the whole experience, I was definitely a bit disappointed at the end to finish over my 4 hrs traget. When in reality I was entering into the complete unknown and should have finished buzzing with the sense of acheivement of finishing my first marathon!

The above points are very very important to note. If you do all of your runs at the same pace and this pace takes an effort out of you then as the poster says you are just burning glycogen all of the time in every run. glycogen will only take you so far in a marathon and this is where the wheels normally come off.

Running most of your runs at slower pace builds your aerobic fitness and also teaches your body to burn fat as well. Another factor is also injury especially as the mileage builds up each week. If you are putting your body under too much stress with the pace you are trying to run it will break down.

I have been that soldier in the past.

jinxremoving

Life has got a bit in the way this week, stress at work & job interview and general madness. feeling drained. did my 3 midweek runs though so at least they're over. roll on LSR at the weekend

Chartsengrafs

Sorry to jump in here, but I'd like some opinions (not sure if this or the intermediate threads are best)..

I'm hoping to do 3:30 and was wondering would HH Novice 2 plan cut it? I would add in a fifth run on occasion..

By way of background: Trained for DCM last year but got injured about 8 days before it. Did everything wrong, ramped up training, did LSRs all too fast etc. Thought I was doing great but I cringe when I look at my log now.

Been foucussing on tri mostly the last two years, but running for 5 or so years and I like to think I'm consistent. Mostly just running this year however, got PBs recently 19:33 for 5k, 40:00 for 10k, 32:50 5 miles. Currently doing 35-40 km a week, feel comfortable. Thanks.

career_move

This is the hydration belt I got today. I was tired of carrying water bottles with me. It seems comfy enough but the acid test will be on sat when I do my lsr (11mi). I hope it works out!:)

moggie4000

I have started running at a much slower pace, thanks to the advice i got here. Really enjoying my slower pace too but here's the question.

I am booked in for the Fingal 10k and i'm wondering do i run the race in order to beat my PB (56.02) or do i run at the slower pace as after all my goal is the marathon??

Cheers
Moggie

NoelJ

career_move wrote: »

This is the hydration belt I got today. I was tired of carrying water bottles with me. It seems comfy enough but the acid test will be on sat when I do my lsr (11mi). I hope it works out!:)

I never use water on my lsr but think it has come to a time where I may need them. Does anyone have any advice on what type of water carrier I should buy?

Let me know how yours goes career_move.

tang1

moggie4000 wrote: »

I have started running at a much slower pace, thanks to the advice i got here. Really enjoying my slower pace too but here's the question.

I am booked in for the Fingal 10k and i'm wondering do i run the race in order to beat my PB (56.02) or do i run at the slower pace as after all my goal is the marathon??

Cheers
Moggie

Race your races as hard as you can, this will give you better idea on what your capable of come marathon day.

Martin_ie2012

NoelJ wrote: »

I never use water on my lsr but think it has come to a time where I may need them. Does anyone have any advice on what type of water carrier I should buy?

A lot of advice from people i have been talking to who are used to training for marathons, is to do laps on your lsr say a 10 mile lsr do 3 laps of just over 3 miles and leave water at a point on the route. Or another guy drives the planned route and drops water bottles off at various points.
Think i am going to go with the laps thing as I like running laps it makes the runs seem shorter for me.

sheba 121

Martin_ie2012 wrote: »

A lot of advice from people i have been talking to who are used to training for marathons, is to do laps on your lsr say a 10 mile lsr do 3 laps of just over 3 miles and leave water at a point on the route. Or another guy drives the planned route and drops water bottles off at various points.
Think i am going to go with the laps thing as I like running laps it makes the runs seem shorter for me.

I run my LSR with laps........my long runs are not too long yet but the lap is 5k and it has a few small inclines and also one nice large incline. So I feel the benefit of it. I leave a water bottle at just one point and its enough to get me by at the moment. Like you I feel the laps make the distance shorter........

tenreds

Didn't feel like running tonight but then started to read all the posts from today and I'm glad I went now,a nice easy 3.4M at a nice slow pace.

Does anybody know how many miles are in Novice plan if you follow it mile by mile (I'm just to lazy to count it up:D )

Rega

tenreds wrote: »

Didn't feel like running tonight but then started to read all the posts from today and I'm glad I went now,a nice easy 3.4M at a nice slow pace.

Does anybody know how many miles are in Novice plan if you follow it mile by mile (I'm just to lazy to count it up:D )

461 I think

Trampas

another nice soaking last night on my run. It got me thinking what do people wear on wet runs.

I have a running rain jacket but with very heavy rain it is pretty useless.

Do people just grim it in their t-shirt and shorts?

Physio said I had a slight sprain but doing RICE and running on it probably did it good but that doesn't mean everyone else should follow my way though.

The foot bone which slots in between the tibia and fibula is going in at a slight angle due to the sprain.

A couple of exercises to do and back next week for a check up.

Onwards and upwards

ncmc

Did a 4 mile run last night in the drizzling rain. I hate running in the rain, especially since I run on a forest path and I end up destroying my trainers with the mud. I followed Menoscemo’s advice about the recovery run and slowed by run last night down to 10 min miles. I had done a pace 7 miles on Wednesday so it felt good to do a handy run last night, stretched out my calves without tiring me out.

Trampas wrote: »

another nice soaking last night on my run. It got me thinking what do people wear on wet runs.

I have a running rain jacket but with very heavy rain it is pretty useless.

Do people just grim it in their t-shirt and shorts?

I just brave the rain in my t-shirt, especially if it’s warm rain like we’re having the moment. I hate the feeling of being overdressed and sweaty on my runs. I just hit the shower as soon as I get home.

Mccarti4

Seems to be a lot of people picking up niggles (myself included). Have a sore achilles so have stayed off it and not run since the lsr last Saturday. Had been hoping to get back and do the 5 mile lsr this Sat but went to the physio last night and have to stay off it until at least next Wednesday. Thankfully it's a step back week so don't feel too bad about missing the week of training and hopefully it won't hinder me too much. I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually dying to get out and go for a run again.

brophya2007

Hi PM,

My name has disappeared from the excel spreadsheet for all the weeks.

Can you do a rollback?

shazkea

brophya2007 wrote: »

Hi PM,

My name has disappeared from the excel spreadsheet for all the weeks.

Can you do a rollback?

My mileage for this week is also now messed up :rolleyes:.

PM I would think that trying to manage this spreadsheet is becoming a nightmare, correct? Anyone got any ideas on how to lock this down or move to an alternate.

ncmc

shazkea wrote: »

My mileage for this week is also now messed up :rolleyes:.

PM I would think that trying to manage this spreadsheet is becoming a nightmare, correct? Anyone got any ideas on how to lock this down or move to an alternate.

My mileage was also wrong! Thought someone had filled in my line by mistake. Poor PM, feel sorry for him having to manage that spreadsheet.

RayCun

shazkea wrote: »

My mileage for this week is also now messed up :rolleyes:.

PM I would think that trying to manage this spreadsheet is becoming a nightmare, correct? Anyone got any ideas on how to lock this down or move to an alternate.

Talk to rom? He implemented a lot of the features in the 1000 mile challenge sheet, and would have some suggestions...

ahnowbrowncow

brophya2007 wrote: »

Hi PM,

My name has disappeared from the excel spreadsheet for all the weeks.

Can you do a rollback?

Has your name been changed to ahnowbrowncow?

Somebody must be messing with the spreadsheet, there's two ahnowbrowncow and neither of their distances are mine and my distances for this week are under new joiner??? It was grand yesterday when I looked at it

Pacing Mule

Someone has completely ****ed it up - again.

Leave it with me for a while guys.

wowzer

Name and shame haha that's how it works in my job
Can the spreadsheet be password protected? A pm sent to all active users with the password to enable us to edit the spreadsheet. Everyone can still view but not edit without a password. There are a lot of trolls on boards that would take pleasure in wrecking our coveted spreadsheet. I don't know if its workable but it may help the issue.

Pacing Mule

Ok sheet restored to before the mess up (which took place approx 6 hours ago) If you entered any new data during that time it will be gone. Sorry about that but I can only roll it back to certain points and not selectively.

The biggest issue here is the lack of any ability in googledocs to lock down / protect indvidual cells and rows which means anyone can come in and act the proverbial with the sheet (or an innocent mistake is made) You can only lock the entire sheet.

So options are:

1) Continue as is - I can roll back things as they happen.
2) Lock the sheet and invite / approve everyone as a collaborator (would require everyone to register a google account / log in etc to edit)
3) Abandon the sheet and go back to tables.
4) Have everyone pm me their runs and I update the sheet myself = lots of work for PM
5) Wait for google to implement individual protection (been waiting 3 years for it so far !)

Personally I'm very much with option 1 for the moment. It's not that difficult to roll it back - and the quicker someone spots the issue the less edits I need to scroll back through to see where it went wrong. Option 2 will not sit well with everyone from a privacy point of view, Option 3 means a heavily cluttered thread with tables, Option 4 would be a personal nightmare and Option 5 is time sensitive.

Pacing Mule

wowzer wrote: »

Name and shame haha that's how it works in my job
Can the spreadsheet be password protected? A pm sent to all active users with the password to enable us to edit the spreadsheet. Everyone can still view but not edit without a password. There are a lot of trolls on boards that would take pleasure in wrecking our coveted spreadsheet. I don't know if its workable but it may help the issue.

Again afaik google docs does not allow a generic password. You can only approve registered collaberators with google accounts.

wowzer

Surely the majority of people have a gmail address, this acts as your Google account??? Or am I wrong??