Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

Donal112

Just finished LSR of 9miles at 9m07s average, still need to slow it down just a little bit more. Very happy I got up and out early especially as I was out for a few beers after work last night. Amazing how the thought of the next morning's run can help you turn down a few drinks and get home a bit earlier!! Lovely morning for a run too. Love getting the LSR finished early on a Saturday so I can relax for the weekend.

Younganne

NoelJ wrote: »

Okay I may be rude but the questions keep repeating themselves and one answer would qualify a lot of questions.. Perhaps I can ask a few of the regular contributors to (my website) / a thread and compact a lot of the questions in one thread?

Questions about Pace, Distance, Water, Injuries? Like honestly I'm confused but when I ask a question there is a lot of questions that are similar and its tough to understand?


I'd love to place all the advice in once place because is helped me.

Does anyone mid if I coagulate all the answers from this thread in one place in order to help others?

Hi NoelJ, what you are saying above is the very reason that this thread is run every year. People get to ask their questions and various people give their experience and offer advice. None of us claim to be experts but just give you the benefit from our experience and hope it helps people to understand different things and hopefully not experiences the problems that other before them have experienced.

The same questions are asked time and time again and this will keep happening as people join in the threads at different times and can't be expected to read back over the whole thread.

Plus as questions get asked again its no harm for everyone to be reminded of the answers as there is such a wide variety of things to ask about and after all its a huge undertaking, training for a marathon.

The members of this thread are great for giving advice to each other on things they have found helpful so far in marathon training and also pointing out where they have problems and shares it so that it willhelp others

The one thing that is very important and you will hear it time and time again is to enjoy the experience of your first marathon, as you'll only ever have 1 first marathon and after the first thing shift slightly and time becomes more important to people...

By all means compile your questions & answers and put the link in here so that everyone can read it.

Trampas

17.9km at 6.07 pace and to be honest it was very easy run.

avg heart rate was 79% of max.

will fill in my weekly stats now

jinxremoving

used a heart rate monitor today for the first time, found it great at helping me keep a steady pace overall. i think it was around 70% of max for most of it, is that what we should be aiming for? still a bit of a noob with heart rates etc

moggie4000

Hi all,

I am wondering as this year will be my first marathon, do you experienced runners break down the 26.2 miles into different goals. For instance, do you break it down in 5 mile goals?

Pacing Mule

Hi everyone

Next weeks sheet is added to our tracker - I have also added the following weeks sheet too (will be away myself towards the end of next week so am doing it now)

Thanks for the offers of help with this. Could anyone who fancies helping out monitoring the sheet drop me a PM with their google account email address. I can add you to the sheets admin list for want of a better word which will allow you to be able to roll back mistakes / see edits that have been made etc. It would make sense to have a handful of members able to do this so any issues can be corrected quickly (especially if I am away and not online as much as I would normally be !)

Younganne

Week 4

Monday |Tuesday |Wednesday |Thursday|Friday |Saturday |Sunday
rest|3 m/5k|4 m/6.5k + 4*100m strides|3 m/5k|rest|9 m/15k|cross


Okay this week guys, strides are back in and for the strides, remember that the important thing is to have good running form. You should be relaxed all through the distance - faster, but relaxed. Don't worry so much about the distance you cover. When it starts to become hard work to maintain the speed, you should slow down again, no matter if you've run 40m or 150m because your form will suffer then anyway.

The LSR is creeping up again this week so, as always, take things easy and ENJOY:D

Mccarti4

Younganne wrote: »

Week 4

Monday |Tuesday |Wednesday |Thursday|Friday |Saturday |Sunday
rest|3 m/5k|4 m/6.5k + 4*100m strides|3 m/5k|rest|9 m/15k|cross

Okay this week guys, strides are back in and for the strides, remember that the important thing is to have good running form. You should be relaxed all through the distance - faster, but relaxed. Don't worry so much about the distance you cover. When it starts to become hard work to maintain the speed, you should slow down again, no matter if you've run 40m or 150m because your form will suffer then anyway.

The LSR is creeping up again this week so, as always, take things easy and ENJOY:D

Any suggestions for how those of us doing the race series 10k on Sunday should move things about? I was thinking of doing replacing the 4m on Wed with the 9m lsr.

wowzer

1.5 mile warm up before race then 1.5 mile cooldown after race perhaps??

Mr Slow

moggie4000 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am wondering as this year will be my first marathon, do you experienced runners break down the 26.2 miles into different goals. For instance, do you break it down in 5 mile goals?

No, the goal is whatever time you choose to run. One aims to run even splits for every mile but this won't always work out because of hills etc that may be in your favour or against you. I would work towards rectifying any loss of time say over the next 5km rather than trying to make it up over a mile. Ideally you'd like a slight negative split where you run the second half faster than the first but this rarely happens and when there's more than a minute or two in the difference, that runner has left time on the course.

shortie_chik

I switched next weekend's LSR with this weekend to fit better in with the 10km in Swords next weekend (11m today, 6m next week).

Found it hard going today! Some bits were lovely (when I passed all the bunnies in the park ), some bits were crappy (when my knees got sore ). I was ok up to 9m which is what I covered last weekend, but the extra 2 were hard enough. I've done a few half-marathons so was surprised I found it so difficult. My knees were feeling every step, and at about 10.5m my right shoe suddenly got weirdly tight across the laces. Had to stop & wiggle them about a bit, & the last half mile was more like a hobble than a run. Going back to my elastic laces tonight!

Also took my first gel today, a Kinetica berry flavour. Was alright, reminded me of melted jelly tots or something. Took me about half a mile to actually take it all. My muscles felt refuelled really quickly, within a few mins my legs felt less tired. Knees were feeling the distance from about 8m though. Has me a bit worried about doubling the distance! :eek:

Duzzie

shortie_chik wrote: »

I switched next weekend's LSR with this weekend to fit better in with the 10km in Swords next weekend (11m today, 6m next week).

Found it hard going today! Some bits were lovely (when I passed all the bunnies in the park ), some bits were crappy (when my knees got sore ). I was ok up to 9m which is what I covered last weekend, but the extra 2 were hard enough. I've done a few half-marathons so was surprised I found it so difficult. My knees were feeling every step, and at about 10.5m my right shoe suddenly got weirdly tight across the laces. Had to stop & wiggle them about a bit, & the last half mile was more like a hobble than a run. Going back to my elastic laces tonight!

Also took my first gel today, a Kinetica berry flavour. Was alright, reminded me of melted jelly tots or something. Took me about half a mile to actually take it all. My muscles felt refuelled really quickly, within a few mins my legs felt less tired. Knees were feeling the distance from about 8m though. Has me a bit worried about doubling the distance! :eek:

I can relate to that. So far ive done 4 10 mile (16k) runs in training, the first was as you described but they did get better. After the first one, my knee was giving me a good bit of jip and next day I hobbled about all day. The last was last week and it actually felt quite comfortable, even managed a sprint (well a sprint for me) finish and next day my knee felt fine and ready to go again. Hopefully it wont be as bad next time for you, just listen to your body and if it's telling you to take it easy or rest, do so. I have my first 20k training run tomorrow evening, i'm moving it because of the 10k next sunday, i'm not looking forward to the step up from 16k to 20k, might be suffering on Tuesday morning

rasher_m

Swapped next weeks run with next weeks. felt pretty good but im having a little trouble with my ankle/foot. still it cant be too bad if i ran over 11 miles. i have an appointment with physio on thursday so maybe a few massages and exercises will fix it up.

Dilbert75

Missed last week's LSR and one of the shorter runs this week, mainly due to being away on holidays but also due to some niggles in my right calf & hamstring (which, touch wood, seem to have been relieved by the pounding I gave them with a tennis ball in the absence of my foam roller). Made a bit of a cock-up by running my Wednesday run at slow pace, instead of PMP - didn't check my plan before I went out! Got my stepback LSR completed this evening though, after my first cross-training effort of 28k on the bike.

Back to struggling to run slowly enough too - my 11.3k tonight were about 10s/km too quick. Need to use the Garmin better to discipline myself a bit more. Planning to get back to HHN2 schedule next week and follow it religiously.

sureitsgrand

Like others I switched things around due to the Fingal 10k next weekend: I did the 9 mile LSR this weekend and will substitute the 5 mile LSR next weekend for the 10K.

Run went grand. I actually was bang on my 10:30 miles as I finished circa 1hr 34 mins 22 secs. Unfortunately, however, this (as usual) is down to me running pretty quick 5/6 miles (9 something minutes) and then running slower final miles (11 something miles). I'm really crap at regulating my pace and I know it's something I have to work on. I'm investing in a Garmin in a few weeks - so hopefully that will help

All in all things are going well. I'm sticking to the training plan and not making excuses like I know I would have done if I wasn't a part of this kickass forum!

Onwards and upwards.

ncmc

Well another week over, one week closer to the big event! I had a good week last week, you may remember I had a couple of sluggish weeks previously, so it felt good to be back at full tilt. A couple of firsts this week, got my gait analysed for the first time. I have a fairly neutral gait with a slight inward roll, but not enough to warrant support shoes. Turns out the trainers I was wearing where quite good for my gait, so went for a similar pair. They are Nike of some description, only €90 so I was pleased as I was expecting to pay more. I also tried a gel for the first time yesterday on my LSR. I was doing 14 miles, and took it at the 7 mile stage. My legs didn’t feel as tired on the second half of the run, not sure if it was the gel, the new trainers, the fact that I had 2 days rest beforehand or just my fitness improving! Maybe a combination of all four. I used the High 5 Isogel and found it fine to take, no ill effects stomach wise. They are bloody hard to open with sweaty hands though!

So last week did 4 miles easy – 7 miles pace (actually went faster than pace which I know is bold, but sometimes it just feels good to RUN FAST!) – 4 mile recovery – 14 miles slow.

I really slowed down my LSR this week, down to 10.15 miles, where previously I was doing 9.30 min miles, really noticed the difference today, no sore legs at all. I also slowed down my recovery run after the 7 mile pace, again, noticed the difference in my legs.

Feel good heading into this week, 4-7-4-15 LSR, the increasing LSR isn’t as scary as it used to be!

miguelk

I'm finding i don't get into the swing of things for 3 or maybe even 4 miles on my LSR. After this I'm very comfortable. Say I'm aiming for 10 min mile on my LSR...the first 3 miles could be 11 as I warm up and after that its LSR pace.

Should you go out and run your LSR pace for the whole LSR distance, or should you build it up slowly, or should I be doing a coulpe of mile warm up outside of the LSR and then covering the distance at the goal pace?

Thanks.

Mr Slow

miguelk wrote: »

I'm finding i don't get into the swing of things for 3 or maybe even 4 miles on my LSR. After this I'm very comfortable. Say I'm aiming for 10 min mile on my LSR...the first 3 miles could be 11 as I warm up and after that its LSR pace.

Should you go out and run your LSR pace for the whole LSR distance, or should you build it up slowly, or should I be doing a coulpe of mile warm up outside of the LSR and then covering the distance at the goal pace?

Thanks.

What you're doing is fine, the warm up is affecting your average pace because it's a good percentage of your current LSR distance, when you get up to 18/20 mile runs it won't have as much of an impact.

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

I really slowed down my LSR this week, down to 10.15 miles, where previously I was doing 9.30 min

Hi ncmc,

What's your current PMP out of interest?

I'm currently doing my LSR at 9.30min also with my PMP being 8min/miles..

Younganne

moggie4000 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am wondering as this year will be my first marathon, do you experienced runners break down the 26.2 miles into different goals. For instance, do you break it down in 5 mile goals?

Mr Slow has given you an answer regarding pacing for this query...but another aspect of this is breaking it down in your head.... for me i always break down runs into smaller more managable chunks, this depends on the distance. My long runs tend to be out and back and when i get to the halfway stage and i turn back, as far as i'm concerned my run will be easier as i'm on my way home and i will have to go the full distance!! Another way i do it is divide it into laps...doesn't matter how long the lap is eg 12m = 3 x 4 m laps, so im my head every 4m is a lap and then theres only 2 or 1 laps left..this would be easier if i could physically do laps but my hilly country roads don't give me that option!!!

With regards to the marathon my first chunk would be 10k, then half marathon, 20 mi and then there's "only 6m/10k left"......this can help the head to deal with it as opposed to 26.2m:eek:..I hope this helps in some way!!!

Mccarti4 wrote: »

Any suggestions for how those of us doing the race series 10k on Sunday should move things about? I was thinking of doing replacing the 4m on Wed with the 9m lsr.

Racing on Sunday with a short warm up and a cooldown, nothing too long and definielty slow and with the race would be just as good as the 9m LSR, race effort for a shorter distance is similar to a longer slow run....

shortie_chik wrote: »

I switched next weekend's LSR with this weekend to fit better in with the 10km in Swords next weekend (11m today, 6m next week).

Found it hard going today!

Be careful doing this as the Stepback weeks are very important for the body and the mind to recover......the body really needs that lower mileage to build and repair before the miles build up again!!!
And as i said above a race is just as good as a LSR.

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Missed last week's LSR and one of the shorter runs this week, mainly due to being away on holidays but also due to some niggles in my right calf & hamstring (which, touch wood, seem to have been relieved by the pounding I gave them with a tennis ball in the absence of my foam roller). Made a bit of a cock-up by running my Wednesday run at slow pace, instead of PMP - didn't check my plan before I went out! Got my stepback LSR completed this evening though, after my first cross-training effort of 28k on the bike.

Back to struggling to run slowly enough too - my 11.3k tonight were about 10s/km too quick. Need to use the Garmin better to discipline myself a bit more. Planning to get back to HHN2 schedule next week and follow it religiously.

theres no problem with missing an odd run here & there...just try to get back to the slow runs when you can....

Ye may notice that those that have nailed the running slow are definitley feeling the benefit and this will be vital when the mileage gets bigger.....

anyone with niggles and or injuries make sure to get them seen to by a professional and don't keep running on them..it will lead to further problems down the road!!!

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Like others I switched things around due to the Fingal 10k next weekend: I did the 9 mile LSR this weekend and will substitute the 5 mile LSR next weekend for the 10K.

Run went grand. I actually was bang on my 10:30 miles as I finished circa 1hr 34 mins 22 secs. Unfortunately, however, this (as usual) is down to me running pretty quick 5/6 miles (9 something minutes) and then running slower final miles (11 something miles). I'm really crap at regulating my pace and I know it's something I have to work on. I'm investing in a Garmin in a few weeks - so hopefully that will help

All in all things are going well. I'm sticking to the training plan and not making excuses like I know I would have done if I wasn't a part of this kickass forum!

Onwards and upwards.

Its hard to keep the pace even and as you tire your pace will slow, but this is where the starting out slow comes into play....

And the good positive attitude will stand to you on this journey...i think its very important.

miguelk wrote: »

I'm finding i don't get into the swing of things for 3 or maybe even 4 miles on my LSR. After this I'm very comfortable. Say I'm aiming for 10 min mile on my LSR...the first 3 miles could be 11 as I warm up and after that its LSR pace.

Should you go out and run your LSR pace for the whole LSR distance, or should you build it up slowly, or should I be doing a coulpe of mile warm up outside of the LSR and then covering the distance at the goal pace?

Thanks.

There is absolutely no problem with taking the first few miles a little slower to warm up, this is the best approach and it means that you will be able to maintain the correct pace for longer into the run!!

Younganne

Rega wrote: »

When I finish my runs I do a bit of light stretching before my shower as a warm down. In the shower I run cold water on my legs for around three mins as I heard it's aids muscle recovery. Does it make any difference doing this before a warm shower or does it have to be hardcore ice baths?

Cheers,
Rega

Hi Rega, sorry i've been meaning to answer your question ..what you are doign is great and will stand to you in the long run as it helps alleviate tiredness in the legs...i do it myself and after i have the shower, i then turn it to cold, hot, cold, hot for as long as i can bear it....stick a towel over your shoulders so you dont get too cold and always finish on hot soas to warm the rest of your body back up. As the long runs get longer this will become a habit!!

With regards to ice baths, some people swear by then and others have no time for them and I think Raycun might have a link to an article regarding ice baths that was publiched last year....(i'll see if i can find it)

ncmc

I'm finding i don't get into the swing of things for 3 or maybe even 4 miles on my LSR. After this I'm very comfortable. Say I'm aiming for 10 min mile on my LSR...the first 3 miles could be 11 as I warm up and after that its LSR pace.

I definitely start my LSR a bit slower, like you, it takes me 2/3 miles to warm up and then I speed up a bit and try and keep my pace consistent after that. I think it takes a bit of practise to hold a pace, before I would be speeding up and slowing down the whole time, but I think I am finally getting the hang of keeping a consistent pace.

blockic wrote: »

Hi ncmc,

What's your current PMP out of interest?

I'm currently doing my LSR at 9.30min also with my PMP being 8min/miles..

Hi Blokic, my PMP at the moment is a (very) tentative 9 min mile, so I was only running my LSR at 30/40 seconds slower than that. I am definitely feeling the benefit of slowing down to 60/90 seconds slower than my PMP. No sore legs today and I felt I had loads left in the tank after my 14 miles yesterday.

Pacing Mule

Just about to head out for a cross between last weeks and this weeks LSR. I'm a couple of days behind you guys and should be doing the 5 miles step back. However I am away next week and would prefer to have the step back timed with that. So my intention is to run this weeks 9 mile today and last weeks 5 mile next Monday. Confusing you yet ?

Wexford1996

career_move wrote: »

Very happy with my lsr this morn (12.93mi) and the water carrier. Had to experiment a bit when I started off to get it in a comfy place. Its a Nathan Speed 2 belt and it says on it that most people like to wear it on their hips and thats where I found it most comfy. Easy to get the bottles out and to drink from. No plastic taste from the bottles which I was relieved to find. I got 2 x 10 oz bottles and I'd say I hardly drank 6 oz. My hips were a tiny bit bruised later on so next time I think i'll only half fill the bottles


I have no problem with that anyway:)

Just a quick question for you, where did you purchase the water carrier? Thanks in advance.

shortie_chik

After the 11m LSR my first blister of the season is appearing! Just a little one on the inside of my left big toe.

Just wondering how other folks deal with them? I haven't typically gotten blisters from training for half-marathons before, although I'd always have them after the race & they'd be big enough & take a while to go away. I'm expecting to see them most weekends from now on though...

So once they appear, do you just leave them to go on their own / pierce them / wear plasters / what else can you do?

Should I let the skin on my feet get hard? Or keep it medium soft? I give my feet the odd rub with a pumice, but that's about it. I find mani/pedi-grooming to be the most tedious thing on earth, so a low-maintenance option would suit me well


Also on the water belts: I have an older model of this, bought in Irish Fit a few years ago. Can't remember how much it cost. I'd drink the 2 10oz bottles on a LSR of 2 hours or so. Sometimes I put the bottles in the freezer for a while before I run & have nice icey cold patches on my back for the first half hour of my run :rolleyes: The pocket is big enough for keys or one gel; kind of had to squeeze my Kinetica 60ml one in last weekend. Wouldn't do for the marathon as you can't fit any more in there!

And I recently bough one of these in Amphibian King. Was €10 for the hand holder & 10oz bottle. I don't like carrying a bottle in my hand directly as it's either really cold or really warm. And I stick my keys into the little pocket. Usually only bring this for a short run on a warm day.

sureitsgrand

I used to be plagued by blisters! Got them on any run over 5 miles....I then bought 1000 miles socks (bout a tenner) and have never had once since....To me they're magic. Have 3 pairs now and each is probably over a year old and I have remained blister free...

When I did get them I tried to let them heal naturally and used blister plasters about twice a day.

Hope this helps.

ncmc

sureitsgrand wrote: »

I used to be plagued by blisters! Got them on any run over 5 miles....I then bought 1000 miles socks (bout a tenner) and have never had once since....To me they're magic. Have 3 pairs now and each is probably over a year old and I have remained blister free...

When I did get them I tried to let them heal naturally and used blister plasters about twice a day.

Hope this helps.

I'm glad you posted this, as I was thinking of getting a pair of these but balked at the price! I think I'll get a pair for my LSR at least and maybe invest in another few pairs when I have the cash!

I get blisters too Shortie Chik, I just take my trainers and socks off as soon as I finish my run and air my feet out (much to the delight of my husband ) I find that if I let the air at the blister as much as possible, it prevents a hot spot becoming a blister. I think I am getting them less since I stopped using a foot pumice. Think the harder skin helps, though it does kinda rule out cute summer shoes! :mad:

shortie_chik

Ok sounds like A Game socks for LSRs is the key! I wore an oldish pair yesterday, think they'll be relegated to the short runs from now on.

sureitsgrand wrote: »

I used to be plagued by blisters! Got them on any run over 5 miles....I then bought 1000 miles socks (bout a tenner) and have never had once since....To me they're magic. Have 3 pairs now and each is probably over a year old and I have remained blister free...
When I did get them I tried to let them heal naturally and used blister plasters about twice a day.

I have 2 pairs of 1000 mile socks, but the last time I wore them I got a massive blister under my toes. :eek: Think they probably shrank in the wash or something, as I have them a while. Might try some new pairs.

ncmc wrote: »

I'm glad you posted this, as I was thinking of getting a pair of these but balked at the price! I think I'll get a pair for my LSR at least and maybe invest in another few pairs when I have the cash!

I get blisters too Shortie Chik, I just take my trainers and socks off as soon as I finish my run and air my feet out (much to the delight of my husband ) I find that if I let the air at the blister as much as possible, it prevents a hot spot becoming a blister. I think I am getting them less since I stopped using a foot pumice. Think the harder skin helps, though it does kinda rule out cute summer shoes! :mad:

Most of the time now I'm wearing these Nike (I think Women's Elite is the name) ones that are marked for your left & right foot so they fit really snugly.
Also bought one pair of those X socks; they're supposed to be the most amazing high tech socks ever :rolleyes: but again, the last time I wore them they gave me blisters! The size range is 35-38 so I think they're too loose on me & were rubbing. I'll keep them for short runs, & try to shrink them in the wash!

A-Game socks & fresh air & tough skin it is! :pac:

career_move

Wexford1996 wrote: »

Just a quick question for you, where did you purchase the water carrier? Thanks in advance.

Hi Wexford. I got it on sub4.ie (€30 incl postage). You should watch the size you order though cause I didn't realise when I bought it that the size refers to waist size but that its fits better on your hips. So I got a S and when I tried it on I was thinking theres no way this is going round my hips. Made it fit though cause too lazy etc to send it back but possibly the reason I have sore hips:D

career_move

shortie_chik wrote: »

After the 11m LSR my first blister of the season is appearing! Just a little one on the inside of my left big toe.

Just wondering how other folks deal with them? I haven't typically gotten blisters from training for half-marathons before, although I'd always have them after the race & they'd be big enough & take a while to go away. I'm expecting to see them most weekends from now on though...

So once they appear, do you just leave them to go on their own / pierce them / wear plasters / what else can you do?

Should I let the skin on my feet get hard? Or keep it medium soft? I give my feet the odd rub with a pumice, but that's about it. I find mani/pedi-grooming to be the most tedious thing on earth, so a low-maintenance option would suit me well


Also on the water belts: I have an older model of this, bought in Irish Fit a few years ago. Can't remember how much it cost. I'd drink the 2 10oz bottles on a LSR of 2 hours or so. Sometimes I put the bottles in the freezer for a while before I run & have nice icey cold patches on my back for the first half hour of my run :rolleyes: The pocket is big enough for keys or one gel; kind of had to squeeze my Kinetica 60ml one in last weekend. Wouldn't do for the marathon as you can't fit any more in there!

And I recently bough one of these in Amphibian King. Was €10 for the hand holder & 10oz bottle. I don't like carrying a bottle in my hand directly as it's either really cold or really warm. And I stick my keys into the little pocket. Usually only bring this for a short run on a warm day.

I used to be plagued with blisters but I plaster my feet in vaseline esp before long runs or on really hot days and have no problems since. To me vaseline is a runner's best friend....i use it everywhere:D