Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

corny

Does anyone else just eat sugary bars and the like on the long run. I don't know about at PMP but at LSR i find i can eat and drink anything. A few burps and i'm fine!

shortie_chik

corny wrote: »

Does anyone else just eat sugary bars and the like on the long run. I don't know about at PMP but at LSR i find i can eat and drink anything. A few burps and i'm fine!

Sometimes I bring jellies Yum yum yum!

What kind of bars do you eat? I wouldn't mind eating a little snack (as in solid food rather than goo) during an LSR.

Actually after my run today, I had a little piece of a Kendall Mint Cake (it's just sugar, glucose syrup, peppermint flavouring & salt). I was comparing the energy in it to the gel I'd just taken & was thinking it might not be a terrible alternative. (Maybe someone else knows better though...)

honey stinger gel (37g in one serving/sachet, but these are the figures for 100g)
cals = 324
total carb = 78g
of which sugars 78g
fat = 0g
protein = 0g

kendall mint cake (it's an 85g bar, but nutritional info given per 100g)
cals = 1615kj/380 cals
carbs = 95g
protein = 0g
fat = 0g

Pacing Mule

Haven't been feeling 100% well over past few days. Felt better today and went out for a scheduled 10 mile LSR. Lasted about 2 miles before I felt like a freight train had hit me, then reversed back over me to make sure I was down!

Decided to call an early end to the run. Turned around and tried to run home. Legs like jelly and emotionally shattered - felt like crying ffs! (why i do not know!) Ended up walking back.

Licking wounds back home now. Will take couple days out and try shake whatever it is that has me knackered.

ncmc

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Haven't been feeling 100% well over past few days. Felt better today and went out for a scheduled 10 mile LSR. Lasted about 2 miles before I felt like a freight train had hit me, then reversed back over me to make sure I was down!

Decided to call an early end to the run. Turned around and tried to run home. Legs like jelly and emotionally shattered - felt like crying ffs! (why i do not know!) Ended up walking back.

Licking wounds back home now. Will take couple days out and try shake whatever it is that has me knackered.

Ah don’t feel bad PM, we have all had bad days when we just haven’t been feeling 100% or haven’t been able to run for one reason or another, it’s only one run out of the hundreds that you will do this year. Just write it off, don’t let it get you down, take a few days off and come back stronger and fitter at the end of the week!:D

slim4life

guys can somebody help me with the nutritional aspect of things...I got some gels to try while running but they only have around 100 calories and seem to be more like juice than anything..are these much help or should I be looking at getting higher calorie gels? also, in terms of recovery I heard its very important to eat no later than 30 minutes after your run in order to allow the muscles to recover faster, is this true? If so, what kind of foods do you guys eat? Im thinking protein and carbohydrates are best and god knows I would love an excuse to have steak and chips but Im thinking the choices you guys are making are very healthy options?

corny

shortie_chik wrote: »

Sometimes I bring jellies Yum yum yum!

What kind of bars do you eat? I wouldn't mind eating a little snack (as in solid food rather than goo) during an LSR.

Actually after my run today, I had a little piece of a Kendall Mint Cake (it's just sugar, glucose syrup, peppermint flavouring & salt). I was comparing the energy in it to the gel I'd just taken & was thinking it might not be a terrible alternative. (Maybe someone else knows better though...)

I'd eat anything really, just once it has a decent bit of sugar. A big stash of jellies is a requisite of course.

I'm a bit sceptical of gels tbh. Seems to me sugared water does just as good a job or even better. If i can stomach it i'll stick to 'normal' food and drink.;)

menoscemo

Lads, if I were you I'd really try out the gels. From Experience I have tried solid food like bars and jellies on training runs and it's been fine. But come the marathon (or any race) I have never been able to stomach them.

I have learned from experience that gels definitely do work, simply because they are easier to stomach/consume. I am definitely not alone here either, I'd say most of those giving advice here would say the same.

menoscemo

slim4life wrote: »

guys can somebody help me with the nutritional aspect of things...I got some gels to try while running but they only have around 100 calories and seem to be more like juice than anything..are these much help or should I be looking at getting higher calorie gels? also, in terms of recovery I heard its very important to eat no later than 30 minutes after your run in order to allow the muscles to recover faster, is this true? If so, what kind of foods do you guys eat? Im thinking protein and carbohydrates are best and god knows I would love an excuse to have steak and chips but Im thinking the choices you guys are making are very healthy options?

Most gels are 100kcals, that's fine.

It's important to get something into you withing 30 minutes of a run alright, something like Chocolate milk is ideal as it gives quick releasing sugars and some protein to the body.
You don't have to eat a big meal within 30 minutes, rather maybe within a few hours of your run. Why do you think Steak is an unhealthy option? As long as it's not deepfried it is a great option as it gives you loads of Protein and Iron. Chips I am sure are fine after such a long run, maybe oven chips rather than deepfried though

La Di Da

Mr Slow wrote: »

Run a 10k, enter your times into the McMillan Calculator and see what it gives you for a half marathon, don't note the marathon time as it's inaccurate for someone who hasn't been running 60/70 miles a week for an extended period, the half time will give you an idea of what kind of pace to go out at in the half but your fitness should improve over the next while and you can expect to do better

Quick question Mr Slow: does the above advice to ignore McMillan's suggested marathon pace apply across the board? I've been using it as a target for my mid-week pace runs. Should we be focusing on the half marathon pace for now? Bit confused.

menoscemo

La Di Da wrote: »

Quick question Mr Slow: does the above advice to ignore McMillan's suggested marathon pace apply across the board? I've been using it as a target for my mid-week pace runs. Should we be focusing on the half marathon pace for now? Bit confused.

What Mr Slow is saying (I think) is that for a first time marathoner your 5k/10k race time is not really going to give you an accurate marathon predictor.

If you run a shorter race, McMillan is likely to predict a much faster time for a Marathon than you are capable of in reality. I find that the predictor is great up to Half Marathon for new runners. I.E. your 10k time should give you an aaccurate half marathon time.

La Di Da

menoscemo wrote: »

What Mr Slow is saying (I think) is that for a first time marathoner your 5k/10k race time is not really going to give you an accurate marathon predictor.

If you run a shorter race, McMillan is likely to predict a much faster time for a Marathon than you are capable of in reality. I find that the predictor is great up to Half Marathon for new runners. I.E. your 10k time should give you an aaccurate half marathon time.

Oh I see. I'd better switch to the half marathon suggested paces then and see how I get on at the Phoenix Park one on 15 September. Thanks for that.

Re. recovery drinks, I bought myself some Nesquik chocolate powder to add to skimmed milk. Dying to try it!

menoscemo

La Di Da wrote: »

Oh I see. I'd better switch to the half marathon suggested paces then and see how I get on at the Phoenix Park one on 15 September. Thanks for that.

I don't get what you mean by that? What programme are you following? some programmes do have half marathon paced runs midweek but they tend to be more advanced programmes. Even then, they don't suggest such runs very often. If you are following HH novice Marathon programme then 'pace' runs should be done at marathon pace.

A midweek run at Half Marathon pace would be a very taxing run and unless you are an experienced runner it may lead to injury and fatigue. You don't want to be tired for your LSR at the weekend. If you are training for a marathon, stick to a marathon programme. Of course if you are specifically training for the Half then follow a HM programme.

menoscemo

rasher_m wrote: »

I think what most people are saying is that Mc Millan Calculator becomes blindly optimistic when it comes to predicting the full marathon time based on your previous races...even half marathon. It is accurate up to half marathon and I think that goes for all runners not just the novice.

That's what I was saying

Although not relevant the bolded part of your post is not exactly true. Many seasoned runners on these boards have marathon PB's in line with their other PB's, some even have Marathon times better than Mcmillan predicts for shorter distances. It comes from years and years of training.

For my First Marathon 3 years ago, McMillan predicted 3:48 based on my Half Marathon and I got 4:15. For my Latest Marathon McMillan Predicted 3:08 based on My latest Half Marathon and I got 3:10. I'm no natural Long distance runner, so stick with your running consistently after this first marathon and you will see your times and performances improving over all distances.

La Di Da

menoscemo wrote: »

That's what I was saying

Although not relevant the bolded part of your post is not exactly true. Many seasoned runners on these boards have marathon PB's in line with their other PB's, some even have Marathon times better than Mcmillan predicts for shorter distances. It comes from years and years of training.

For my First Marathon 3 years ago, McMillan predicted 3:48 based on my Half Marathon and I got 4:15. For my Latest Marathon McMillan Predicted 3:08 based on My latest Half Marathon and I got 3:10. I'm no natural Long distance runner, so stick with your running consistently after this first marathon and you will see your times and performances improving over all distances.

I see what you're both saying. Very useful info. My confusion stemmed from a misinterpretation of Mr. Slow's original message. I'm doing HH Novice 2 marathon programme and basing my mid-week pace on the results of my Fingal 10km (59:15 which gives a suggested marathon pace of 10:37). I'm trying not to think too much about the overall time for my first outing. Just want to make sure I'm doing the training runs at the appropriate pace to make it to the finish line in one piece! Thanks for the clarification.

menoscemo

La Di Da wrote: »

I see what you're both saying. Very useful info. My confusion stemmed from a misinterpretation of Mr. Slow's original message. I'm doing HH Novice 2 marathon programme and basing my mid-week pace on the results of my Fingal 10km (59:15 which gives a suggested marathon pace of 10:37). I'm trying not to think too much about the overall time for my first outing. Just want to make sure I'm doing the training runs at the appropriate pace to make it to the finish line in one piece! Thanks for the clarification.

I'd say that's fair enough since you are yet to decide a definite marathon target? The Fingal 10k was tough (I did it myself) and most people seemed to be a minute or two down on normal. I'd say you should shoot for about 2:10 in the half.
Still, if you feel that pace is a little tough, don't be afraid to drop it back a bit.

Mr Slow

La Di Da wrote: »

I see what you're both saying. Very useful info. My confusion stemmed from a misinterpretation of Mr. Slow's original message. I'm doing HH Novice 2 marathon programme and basing my mid-week pace on the results of my Fingal 10km (59:15 which gives a suggested marathon pace of 10:37). I'm trying not to think too much about the overall time for my first outing. Just want to make sure I'm doing the training runs at the appropriate pace to make it to the finish line in one piece! Thanks for the clarification.

So you're blaming me? :mad::pac:

menoscemo

rasher_m wrote: »

No I am...giving that other lad the thumbs up...:p

Sorry for ofending you but I am not sure how; I thought we were all saying the same thing:

menoscemo wrote: »

What Mr Slow is saying (I think) is that for a first time marathoner your 5k/10k race time is not really going to give you an accurate marathon predictor.

If you run a shorter race, McMillan is likely to predict a much faster time for a Marathon than you are capable of in reality. I find that the predictor is great up to Half Marathon for new runners. I.E. your 10k time should give you an aaccurate half marathon time.

rasher_m wrote: »

I think what most people are saying is that Mc Millan Calculator becomes blindly optimistic when it comes to predicting the full marathon time based on your previous races...even half marathon. It is accurate up to half marathon and I think that goes for all runners not just the novice.

Mr Slow

rasher_m wrote: »

No I am...giving that other lad the thumbs up...:p

I was agreeing with his post, he has more experience than I do so it would be silly for me to disagree with him

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

I was agreeing with his post, he has more experience than I do so it would be silly for me to disagree with him

Glad to see you know your place

rasher_m wrote: »

Ah this getting out of hand :eek:...apologies to everyone. I was kidding with you all earlier.:o

Hey no worries, it's all cool. I just misinterpreted your tone

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

Glad to see you know your place

Ha ha, if you believe that I've something to sell you, once in a lifetime deal.

slim4life

menoscemo wrote: »

Most gels are 100kcals, that's fine.

It's important to get something into you withing 30 minutes of a run alright, something like Chocolate milk is ideal as it gives quick releasing sugars and some protein to the body.
You don't have to eat a big meal within 30 minutes, rather maybe within a few hours of your run. Why do you think Steak is an unhealthy option? As long as it's not deepfried it is a great option as it gives you loads of Protein and Iron. Chips I am sure are fine after such a long run, maybe oven chips rather than deepfried though

Never thought of plastic milk lol I could defo live with that!..how often would you recommend using the gels during a run? thanks for your help!

menoscemo

slim4life wrote: »

how often would you recommend using the gels during a run? thanks for your help!

I'd say use a few different brands in training runs to see which suits you best, in terms of taste and how you stomach them.

However I do not recommend you using them on every run as:
a) they are very expensive
b) you should train the body to run as fuel efficiently as possible.

Maybe take one gel for every run over 13 miles, but while testing them, feel free to try them on shorter runs too.

In the marathon itself most people will normally get by on 3-5 gels depending on how they stomach them. I'd normally carry 5 and use 4, taking them every 5-6 miles or so.

niteowl1

It's so important to try out those gels a few times before the big day. I use the gels that don't need to be taken with additional water( or so they say!). However I have learnt that I need to take on water with them. First time I tried it with no extra water and had severe cramps after it. Not a pleasant experience especially in an 18 mile run. Also you need to think about how you are going to store them during the run? I don't like the belts so wear shorts with pockets.

I got very hungry during the 'long' LSRs and also in the marathon. Thankfully had jellies with me, ate a banana at some point and spectators were handing out more jellies. Make sure you have plenty of sandwiches waiting for you at the finish line, you will be starving!!!

Edited to say I used 3 gels during marathon 6, 12 & 18 miles.

Runchick

Just back from my first time at physio...8 days since my last run and I finally know what's going on with my hip. Basically all the increased mileage has caused irritation in my hip socket. Physio is hopeful that another week - maybe 2 - and I'll be able to get back running. I have strengthening exercises to do and am allowed to cycle and swim. He reckons if I do short high intensity cross training workouts I shouldn't lose fitness - which was my main worry. I'm kind of relieved now I know what's wrong and how to fix it. I desperately miss my runs and am checking in on this thread every day, enjoying reading everyone's progress. On the plus side, he reckons I'm in good strong shape and is hopeful that DCM is still well within my reach once I get this hip sorted.

Thanks to everyone on here who encouraged me to rest up and not run on through injury. The physio reckons I came to him nice and early before too much damage has been done so that could be my saving grace. Good luck everyone this week, can't wait to get back to logging the mileage soon

tang1

Runchick wrote: »

Just back from my first time at physio...8 days since my last run and I finally know what's going on with my hip. Basically all the increased mileage has caused irritation in my hip socket. Physio is hopeful that another week - maybe 2 - and I'll be able to get back running. I have strengthening exercises to do and am allowed to cycle and swim. He reckons if I do short high intensity cross training workouts I shouldn't lose fitness - which was my main worry. I'm kind of relieved now I know what's wrong and how to fix it. I desperately miss my runs and am checking in on this thread every day, enjoying reading everyone's progress. On the plus side, he reckons I'm in good strong shape and is hopeful that DCM is still well within my reach once I get this hip sorted.

Thanks to everyone on here who encouraged me to rest up and not run on through injury. The physio reckons I came to him nice and early before too much damage has been done so that could be my saving grace. Good luck everyone this week, can't wait to get back to logging the mileage soon

Glad you got to the root of your injury, better now than later. Keep the cross training up and you'll be flying when you get back running.

rasher_m

tang1 wrote: »

Glad you got to the root of your injury, better now than later. Keep the cross training up and you'll be flying when you get back running.

Yeah you're a strong runner and were well ahead of the pack so no doubt you'll come back quick enough

career_move

Jeez that got a bit confusing earlier on....thought i was on the wrong thread for a minute all this talk of pace and how fast I should be running and how slow I should be running - makes me happy I don't have a watch

slim4life

Menoscemo and Niteowl1 thanks for your help, really appreciate it! I really thought I had this marathon sussed but turns out I was barely touching the iceberg!.. I came across this thread by accident but thank god I did!!! I genuinely worry now for the people that havent found this and are still thinking the way I was...surely theyre going to have a disaster on the big day....

slim4life

Hey guys,

Firstly, I hope I'm not annoying people be constantly asking questions but every time I log off I think of something else that I'm not sure about...Blisters on feet...I seem to always get a blister on the instep of both feet every time I run more than 10km. This isnt just with the shoes I have now, its always been like that with old shoes too. And on the treadmill it happens within maybe 30 minutes, although I think this could be the heat building up under my shoe. Does anybody else have this happen to them? Is it normal? Is there anything I can do to stop it happening? I was thinking of going out for short runs bare foot on concrete to try harden my feet up a little bit. Could this work?

rasher_m

slim4life wrote: »

Hey guys,

Firstly, I hope I'm not annoying people be constantly asking questions but every time I log off I think of something else that I'm not sure about...Blisters on feet...I seem to always get a blister on the instep of both feet every time I run more than 10km. This isnt just with the shoes I have now, its always been like that with old shoes too. And on the treadmill it happens within maybe 30 minutes, although I think this could be the heat building up under my shoe. Does anybody else have this happen to them? Is it normal? Is there anything I can do to stop it happening? I was thinking of going out for short runs bare foot on concrete to try harden my feet up a little bit. Could this work?

Well I find proper running socks the best way to deal with moisture and friction on the feet. I have been wearing them a few weeks now and I have to say I havnt had any problems since then. They're not cheap but worth paying for. You can get them in any sports shop around.

I've also read about other guys putting Vaseline on the soles of their feet before a run.