Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

rasher_m

Younganne wrote: »

Aches & Pain, Niggles & Injuries

Anyone who is experiencing difficulties that are more that just aches and pains need to get medical advice from an expert and shouldn’t leave it too long, sooner rather than later, but there are plenty who have aches and pains and this will happen as the mileage increases and you are running further and for longer!
Here are Four general tips for dealing with aches and pains – R.I.C.E

Rest - most aches and pains will go away with a bit of rest, and if you are pushing on during runs when you are tired, this will lead to picking up an injury. This is why a good marathon plan will include some stepback weeks and this is why you should not mess with the stepback weeks.
And sometimes you'll need some more rest. Take a day off, do an easy recovery run or some light cross training instead. Keep you runs slow!!

Ice - bag of frozen peas to the sore area for 15 minutes will relieve pain and reduce swelling

Compress - with a bandage, training tape, or support. Reduces swelling, and supports the area during recovery

Elevate - put your feet up! Also reduces swelling

And don't worry too much about missing a session here or there. If you complete 80-90% of the marathon training program, you are doing well. You are better off resting when you need to than running yourself into an injury, and in any race you will perform better if you are 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained.


Gels in training and races

Its time to buy a few and try out the different types of Gels and Part of LSR's training is to improve our bodies ability to obtain its energy requirements from Fat stores. This is achieved by running down its current fuel store (glycogen depletion). The taking of gels too early in training runs will hamper this process. Think of it like a petrol tank, when the yellow light comes on then we put in a bit of fuel.

The point at which the yellow light comes on varies from person to person and how effective their aerobic system is. Most runners should be able to do a 12/14 mile LSR without requiring a gel. Yes you will feel wrecked and slow down but this is because the body has to, in order to facilitate the generation of energy from fat stores. You should not need more the 1-2 gels on runs between 16-20 miles and do not take them until the later end of the runs.

It is more important to fill the tank back up after the run. Make sure you eat properly after the race and throughout the day, eating good food and not too much crap

But when Racing, this is different…When doing Races, we need to keep the tank topped up as much as possible. So we take on some form of simple carbs (gels, jelly babies, bananas, whatever) as early as possible in the race and continue this process until the later stages or end if you can still stomach food at this point.

Hi Anne, I'm glad you mentioned about gels again. I want to ask you a question...I'm going to try a 14 - 15 miler this weekend and I'm planning on bringing a water belt. So I'm wondering should I take a gel/electrolyte drink? I will of course have the water. Thanks in advance.

Younganne

rasher_m wrote: »

Hi Anne, I'm glad you mentioned about gels again. I want to ask you a question...I'm going to try a 14 - 15 miler this weekend and I'm planning on bringing a water belt. So I'm wondering should I take a gel/electrolyte drink? I will of course have the water. Thanks in advance.

ye its definitely a good idea to try one out and probably at about mile 9/10 should see you through to the end. a lot of people find them difficult to take especially the first time and even if you are taking an isogel 1, i would still recommend taking on some water even if its just to wash it down.

slim4life

Younganne wrote: »

Aches & Pain, Niggles & Injuries

But when Racing, this is different…When doing Races, we need to keep the tank topped up as much as possible. So we take on some form of simple carbs (gels, jelly babies, bananas, whatever) as early as possible in the race and continue this process until the later stages or end if you can still stomach food at this point.

Hi Younganne, firstly, your information is invaluable so thank you! Just want to ask you about gels etc. during the race day...You say that we should keep our energy stores topped up as much as possible from the outset of the race, so how many gels would you recommend? For simplicity lets assume I was able to stomach as many as I wanted through the race. Would you recommend food over gels? Thank you in advance

rasher_m

Has anyone got any thoughts on Electrolyte drinks...do you notice a better performance afterwards? When do you take them etc?

Younganne

slim4life wrote: »

Hi Younganne, firstly, your information is invaluable so thank you! Just want to ask you about gels etc. during the race day...You say that we should keep our energy stores topped up as much as possible from the outset of the race, so how many gels would you recommend? For simplicity lets assume I was able to stomach as many as I wanted through the race. Would you recommend food over gels? Thank you in advance

Previously i have used 4 gels in the marathon, miles 6, 12, 18 and 21 and this is to keep the energy up along the way and so far in 2 marathons i haven't hit the wall. This is also because i always did the LSR at the slow pace and therefore my body could work after 20 miles as it was used to doing it in the LSR.
I have never taken food while running except jellies and usually within the last few miles if people are offering chocolate i'd take a bit....whatever you do in training you will get use to and then you will be able to do this on race day.

slim4life

Younganne wrote: »

Previously i have used 4 gels in the marathon, miles 6, 12, 18 and 21 and this is to keep the energy up along the way and so far in 2 marathons i haven't hit the wall. This is also because i always did the LSR at the slow pace and therefore my body could work after 20 miles as it was used to doing it in the LSR.
I have never taken food while running except jellies and usually within the last few miles if people are offering chocolate i'd take a bit....whatever you do in training you will get use to and then you will be able to do this on race day.

Ok thanks again for your help, really do appreciate it!

Younganne

rasher_m wrote: »

Has anyone got any thoughts on Electrolyte drinks...do you notice a better performance afterwards? When do you take them etc?

I always get headaches (sometimes migraine) after long runs and races and i'm usually well hydrated and sometimes i wouldn't be able to drink any more water, so this year i started taking the High 5 electrolyte sports drink but it hasn't made any differenct to me.. but it works for others so try and see if it makes any difference to you. Sometimes its nice to have something different to drink than just water on a run. I bring water in one small bottle and some blackcurrant & apple diluted juice in another, just for the change.

sheba 121

Hi guys ive been off with an injury last week. I was really hoping to be up and moving this week but didnt happen. Long story short hit the top of my foot off a concrete slab while out walking..............badily bruised and some soft tissue damage..........the part of the foot with no fat under the skin, so I really whacked it.........Got xrays ect just in case but thankfully nothing that will set me back too much........Doc said I should be able to get back running next monday or tuesday........which is great............Really bored with not being able to run..........but hope to be back with out all next week.......

Deedee2012

Trampas wrote: »

I was thinking of clocking some miles on the DCM course for LSR but it isn't very friendly for staring anywhere from phoenix park on wards to create a loop back without running over 20miles.

I wanted to run from around Crumlin to Ballsbridge are and back to Crumlin as I think it would help a lot on the day.

On running in Dublin what is it like as I live in the sticks so hardly ever have to deal with crossing roads with traffic. Do people run on the road and/or footpath especially when it comes to traffic lights.

Great minds think alike, I'm planning on doing my LSR on the course this weekend should be taking in miles 15 through to 22 and will loop home a shorter way. I want to take in the dreaded Clonskeagh/Roebuck as many times as I can. Hope to take the mystery out of it. Nervous now I must admit. I run on the footpath just too dangerous on the road though all the up and down paths is a pain in the butt. Enjoy your run!

Macaonbhuit

I see that the 1/2 marathon is on the 15th September and that is the the same weekend that I'm meant to be doing a 26K LSR. Should I just go ahead and race the 1/2 instead of the LSR, and just move on. I just wonder if its an issue given that my next LSR (that not in a step back week) is 29K... I'm on LSR from HH1 and midweek runs from HH2...

menoscemo

Macaonbhuit wrote: »

I see that the 1/2 marathon is on the 15th September and that is the the same weekend that I'm meant to be doing a 26K LSR. Should I just go ahead and race the 1/2 instead of the LSR, and just move on. I just wonder if its an issue given that my next LSR (that not in a step back week) is 29K... I'm on LSR from HH1 and midweek runs from HH2...

It's good Practise to do a slow warm up and cool down before and after the race to loosen out the muscles.

Why not try to do a few k's as warm up and the same after the race to make up the 26k?

miguelk

ncmc wrote: »

Just bumping this post from Mr Slow, might answer some of the queries about rollers. Wondering if the roller would be beneficial for calves, that would be the area I get most tightness in.

Edit, just adding this link

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055898631

Anyone got a recommendation on which stick is best for the likes of us?

The "sprinter" in phsioneeds is described as being for track runners so not so sure about it.

Sub4 have the 24 Inch "body stick" (apaprently the most popular) and the 17 Inch travel marathon stickas well as the sprinter.

Thanks.

miguelk

darabbit wrote: »

...Anyway I had just gone past the 3 mile mark when I nearly stood on a tiny little bird on the road. I stopped and examined him and he appeared hurt. I am a sucker for animals esp if they appear injured in any way so I picked himup and walked home with him cupped in my hands...

You have to admire anyone who can train for a marathon and still find the time to pick up birds......

....fair play

tenreds

Just back from 2 weeks holidays and there wasn't much running done by me due to it being to hot,and from to much beer and junk food .

So went for a run today about 3.6 miles and was surprised at how hard it was,it was around midday so the heat might have been a factor.Has anybody that's been injured for a week or two or on holidays found it hard to get back in to the swing of things

Thinking of trying a lsr run tomorrow but a bit unsure of what distance to try.Longest I have done so far is about 11 miles but don't think I could do that tomorrow,has anyone any thoughts on what would be a safe distance,or even how to work myself back up to the plan and get back on track.Dam those holidays

rasher_m

tenreds wrote: »

Just back from 2 weeks holidays and there wasn't much running done by me due to it being to hot,and from to much beer and junk food .

So went for a run today about 3.6 miles and was surprised at how hard it was,it was around midday so the heat might have been a factor.Has anybody that's been injured for a week or two or on holidays found it hard to get back in to the swing of things

Thinking of trying a lsr run tomorrow but a bit unsure of what distance to try.Longest I have done so far is about 11 miles but don't think I could do that tomorrow,has anyone any thoughts on what would be a safe distance,or even how to work myself back up to the plan and get back on track.Dam those holidays

One of the experienced runners might be better to advise but if you're only back at it and found it hard today then I'd rest tomorrow and do the lsr on Sunday when you've had a chance to rest. The jet lag might have been a factor today as well plus you'll have more in the tank for the long run on Sunday, if it was just a 3 miler then I'd say tomorrow would be fine but you'll need to feel fresh for the long one.

Trampas

Will give the footpaths a try.

Around where I am there is a village and after that there is no footpaths but I have managed to survive on the road but I don't really run on the main roads. Usually me running by the cows and sheep.

LSR tomorrow as hopefully less humid.

Dilbert75

I know footpaths are safer but they're often concrete, which is much harder on your joints than tarmac (14 times harder according to a paper my physio read). That's why I normally aim for road.

darabbit

I really struggled with LSR today. I headed out at 7.30 to avoid the heat of the last couple of days. I felt really tired and sluggish and had to really push myself to complete the 12 miles. I think the bug I had earlier in the week has taken its toll on my energy levels. I sweated buckets.. Yuk I know!!😓 I think I am still fighting some bug. I am looking forward to kicking back and watching some of the Olympics today.. I have a very rare quiet weekend:)

Mrs Noc

Younganne wrote: »

Previously i have used 4 gels in the marathon, miles 6, 12, 18 and 21 and this is to keep the energy up along the way and so far in 2 marathons i haven't hit the wall. This is also because i always did the LSR at the slow pace and therefore my body could work after 20 miles as it was used to doing it in the LSR.
I have never taken food while running except jellies and usually within the last few miles if people are offering chocolate i'd take a bit....whatever you do in training you will get use to and then you will be able to do this on race day.

Thanks for the advice on the gels. I have to give them a try. I'm changing things around slightly for the next 2 weeks, so doing the 15 mile run this week. If I can buy some gels before that, I'll give one a go.

Pacing Mule

Woke up to a very nice surprise birthday present. A soleus 2.0 gps watch.

I have been running so far with an iphone app but the limitations on this are that the battery will struggle to last a full marathon, and you only get feedback every kilometre unless you take the phone off your arm to look at the screen. This means I am constantly getting my pacing wrong and correcting it after the first kilometre or two so am looking forward to running when I can tweak the pace right from the start.

Soleus has had some mixed reviews but from what I can see so far will do the job perfectly for me as a novice runner and hasn't broken the bank for the family either.

rasher_m

Trampas wrote: »

Will give the footpaths a try.

Around where I am there is a village and after that there is no footpaths but I have managed to survive on the road but I don't really run on the main roads. Usually me running by the cows and sheep.

LSR tomorrow as hopefully less humid.

Well you won't see cows and sheep but you might see a horse if you're lucky. I'm doing my LSR tomorrow as well or maybe even Monday. I took a dog out with me for the 7 miler pace run yesterday which I was supposed to do Wednesday. We went to the park for the first few miles and the dog is wild. She was trying to go after every dog in sight so it was a nightmare trying to pull her back and run in the right direction. I ended up leaving the park and running on the streets which was a lot easier with her. I ran 7.9 miles in the end at 8.46 miles per hour which was a little too fast. I can feel it in my legs today, more so than an lsr.
I'm also going to take the water belt tomorrow and give a gel and electrolyte drinks a go.

doledude86

Disasterous LSR today...

Went to do 16miles, Ate porridge before I left, after 2miles I knew it wasnt my day my stomach was quezzy, then i realised Id set off way too quick was in around 8:35 min/mile, then the heat start killing me, around about 7miles then my legs start going, managed to dig in till about 10miles but realised I just didnt have it in me... jogged home for 2 miles so was way short of where I wanted to be... really annoyed but had to correct what went wrong and better to go wrong today then in October, I did a run on thursday which was far too fast did 7miles at 7:30min/miles, could this have also played a part??

Pacing Mule

doledude86 wrote: »

Disasterous LSR today...

Went to do 16miles, Ate porridge before I left, after 2miles I knew it wasnt my day my stomach was quezzy, then i realised Id set off way too quick was in around 8:35 min/mile, then the heat start killing me, around about 7miles then my legs start going, managed to dig in till about 10miles but realised I just didnt have it in me... jogged home for 2 miles so was way short of where I wanted to be... really annoyed but had to correct what went wrong and better to go wrong today then in October, I did a run on thursday which was far too fast did 7miles at 7:30min/miles, could this have also played a part??

Chin up ! I abandoned my last LSR after 2km so you did better than me

My by no means expert opinion is this:

You probably ran too soon after consuming food. Need at least an hour if not two to settle anything substantial.

Your speed on both runs killed you. If you are referring to the Thursday run as too fast then it's safe to assume it was. Likewise referring to anything in your LSR as being fast - well it goes without saying doesn't it. The concept of the LSR is too run very slowly and get used to miles on the feet. Pace comes in later. To knock out a 16 mile LSR is a big ask in the first place if you're not regularly doing them (which is compounded by starting on tired legs from the fast run on Thursday) and needs to be done at the slowest and steadiest of comfortable pacing. It's difficult to pull the reigns in as such when you feel so good in the first few miles and pace is naturally increasing but it comes back and bites you hard later in the mileage.

You are constantly performing under strain and tiredness during the marthon training program. You are never at 100% at the start of each run - this is why the 2-3 week taper coming into the race itself is so important. It allows the body to recover to its max potential for marathon day where you will start at 100% fitness / energy level.

In short don't beat yourself up over this - it's happened, lessons have been learned and if you keep the pace under a bit more control next time round you will be in a far better place to take out the last few miles that scuppered you today.

career_move

+1 on what Pageant says. Porridge is great but I couldn't run after eating it. Just put it down to a bad day and smash the next lsr:D

career_move

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Woke up to a very nice surprise birthday present. A soleus 2.0 gps watch.

Happy birthday PM....no stopping you now!

Dilbert75

Tough 14m LSR this evening - was tired, hadn't eaten in a couple of hours and it's still quite humid. Still, planned a new route and ran it at a pretty consistent pace, which I was happy about. Didn't get flattened by traffic on the country roads either, which I was also happy about. Didn't start drinking my water until 8km but it was gone by 15km, leaving me a thirsty 7.5km before I got home. Did have a couple of wine gums along the way but deliberately didn't have Lucozade or anything to try and get the best out of it. Happy to have a hard week over.

Satanta

12 mile rune today. Last 3 were torture. Not enough carbs and too much walking about all morning (shopping and carrying kids about) is what I am hoping was the cause. Plus it was roasting today.

upthe19th

Have not posted in a while but i've been in and out keepin an eye on ye. well done so far guys and gals.

Work has a been a bit mental of late but training going ok. Came off the bike couple days ago and was lucky not to break anything to be honest.

Tough 14 miler today around the tight back roads of wexford...last mile was rough...no gel and small amount of water and pretty hot out there.

1:58 for the run. Foot is killing me though. Never had trouble with it til now. Just wondering if I was compensating for my knee (hurt from the bike) with my running movements. Hopefully its minor.

We're gettin closer.....

Younganne

Week 8

Mon | Tue | Wed | Thur | Fri| Sat |Sun| Total
Rest| 3m/5k | 6m/10k|3m/5k| Rest| 14m/22k| Cross| 26m/42k


Hey Guys,
The miles are slow creeping up. Make sure you are well rested, getting plenty of sleep and eat properly and you should have no problem with the increases as they are so gradual

Hals plan has a half marathon on his schedule this week so 14 m LSR will be our equivalant

I'll be away for the next few days with no access, but anyone with questions just ask and some of the lads will answer.

Remember Slow and Enjoy:D

Runchick

First week back running after injury now complete. I did 2 short runs during the week, the first resulted in a very sore hip and I thought that was the end of me as I doubt I could do DCM if I had much more time off. But I kept a positive frame of mind and continued with the physio exercises and plenty of cross training on the bike - which doesn't affect my hip thankfully. So attempted another short run a few days later and it was much better, just a niggle from 2 mile.

So this morning I attempted a longer run - physio suggested 7 miles but to stop if I felt pain. So I headed out at 6.30am fully expecting not to get too far. I couldn't believe that I hardly felt a niggle in my hip other that a dull discomfort at about 5 mile. I took it easy and managed 9 miles, the last 2 miles completely niggle free. I am over the moon that things appear to be improving.

I've changed a few things now as a result of this injury. Firstly trying to run with a lighter foot. This takes practice but definitely puts less pressure on the joints. Also I've been doing 20-40 miles a week on the bike to keep my fitness up and have really enjoyed it, so I think I'll incorporate cycling as cross training from here on. The bike really works the glutes which I need to be strong to prevent further injury.

I can't believe how quickly I've recovered and how doing the physio exercises really works. Anyone out there with niggles or potential injuries my advice would be to see a professional and follow their advice. I am still cautious about moving forward from here and doubt I'll be doing pace runs for a few weeks yet, but I'm optimistic about getting to the start line on 29 Oct. I guess the 20 miler will be the tell tale week...