Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

ncmc

folan wrote: »

id be really tempted, but i havent tried high 5 yet, and would be afraid of them not agreeing with me

I've tried the High 5 Isogels, but not the ordinary gels, the Isogels are fine, but then they are quite watery. I think I need to try different gels before the DCM though as the Isogels are quite cumbersome to carry and I'd say there's probably more of a 'kick' out of the ordinary gels.

snowman224

Did 5km last night. Brought it forward a day in case I find doing the 3 days in a row too much and need a day's break.
Ankle has been ok. Knees give me some trouble now at the start of runs which is weird. Probably cause I'm running funny worrying about my ankle.

Thought I'd really test things so I did the 5km my 10km race pace. (~5min/km). Only issue was the fitness I've lost!
Iced ankle when I got back as a precaution and it seems fine. Not perfect but fine.
Gonna try a slow 10km tonight - so I have Wed as a rest day if needed.

Miss the 10mile on saturday gone, so my new goal is to do the half on the 15th.
Should be possible but it'll be a case of just getting round. No racing....!!

Am getting really worried about the miles I've lost. Can see from reading here that you guys are upping the milage and finding some problems. :-|
Motivation won't be an issue for me. Just my weak little ankle!!!

RayCun

Mr Slow wrote: »

Claralara will be 4:30 pacer for DCM FYI

4.30?!?! Are you going to tie her legs together at the start?

ncmc

rasher_m wrote: »

Well I can tell you that I find it hard enough to sleep after the long lsr, dont know if you're the same...my legs are restless and sore so if you have the same effects then don't do it Friday evening for sure.

Funny, I don't find it hard to sleep after a long run, but that said, I think I have only done one in the evening once.

Think I will do my 17 miles on Thursday and then a very gentle 4 recovery on Friday. Hopefully that will leave me a bit less under pressure on Friday for getting my packing finished etc.

slim4life

ncmc wrote: »

Slim4life, please don't feel disheartened, everyone has bad runs. Read back over the last few weeks and I think everyone has had at least one ****ty run. Mine was a 14 mile LSR a few weeks ago, it was just horrible, felt exactly how you described and felt so crap after it. Went out the next week and did 15 miles without a bother! It can be any number of things, maybe you hadn’t eaten enough, maybe you were dehydrated, maybe you were tired. It happens us all, just forget about it, put it behind you and go out on your next LSR with a positive attitude! You still have 9 weeks to go to the marathon, so there are bound to be a couple of crappy runs between now and then, the key is not to let them spoil your resolve.

Hi NCMC,

I know youre right, just very tough to take when in my head I was thinking im doing great with the training. Suppose we are all human though :-). Im putting it behind me and just going to keep going and see how this week goes. done 6.5km this morning in 31 minutes, was a hard run but got through it so hopefully next weeks LSR will be a little easier. Thanks for the encouragement.

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

4.30?!?! Are you going to tie her legs together at the start?

Herself and Digger are doing it as a 3 legged race.

Pacing Mule

Question for the more experienced.

I've been looking back on my times / splits from the last year and I've noticed that in recent times (since marathon traning began) my splits have been quite a bit slower. That's not just for the expected LSR but with the shorter runs too.

I don't know if it is because of the increased mileage that I have been used to holding back a bit to conserve energy for later in the run. The splits I'm comparing to where on 4-5km runs as opposed to the up to 8k "short" runs now but I think I would struggle to do my earlier paces even over 4-5 km now.

Is it normal to sacrifice a bit of speed for endurance / distance ? I've read it here countless times that distance training increases pace for shorter runs. Is that afterwards ? (as in when stopping training over longer distances and going back to shorter runs on a regular basis)

menoscemo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Question for the more experienced.

I've been looking back on my times / splits from the last year and I've noticed that in recent times (since marathon traning began) my splits have been quite a bit slower. That's not just for the expected LSR but with the shorter runs too.

I don't know if it is because of the increased mileage that I have been used to holding back a bit to conserve energy for later in the run. The splits I'm comparing to where on 4-5km runs as opposed to the up to 8k "short" runs now but I think I would struggle to do my earlier paces even over 4-5 km now.

Is it normal to sacrifice a bit of speed for endurance / distance ? I've read it here countless times that distance training increases pace for shorter runs. Is that afterwards ? (as in when stopping training over longer distances and going back to shorter runs on a regular basis)

The Likelihood is that it is just fatigue in your legs that is slowing you down a bit. Also the fact that you are probably now training more sensibly whereas before you were probably running your 4-5k training runs as fast as you possibly could?

My bet is if you were actually to do a 5k race, rest up for it for 3 or 4 days before had you would absolutely smash your previous PB. You mightn't be any faster over the first k than you used to be, but you would be able to hold that pace right through the race.

zarkov

I'm really beginning to question my ability to do the DCM. I can't get my head around running the full distance and injury has hampered my training progress (missed week 5 & 6 of the HH Novice 1 plan). On week 7, I did the 3 mid week runs but could only manage an LSR of 10 miles (instead of 12) and the following Saturday I did two 6 miles runs (instead of 13m) and missed one of the mid-week runs. It was only last week that I was able to do the full plan 3, 7, 4 and the LSR of 10 miles (1h 46m). It's going to be interesting to see how this week goes with the 15m LSR. I haven't registered yet and I'm wondering am I fooling myself and maybe I should look toward next year. Any thoughts???

greenb

Hi All, sorry for hijacking this thread as I'm not doing the DCM this year...but will be doing it next year (most likely, probably, maybe, I think!!)

Anyway when I was debating whether to do it this year a few weeks ago (too late), I asked some questions here and got some great advice, particularly from YoungAnne (thanks!)

I only completed C25K earlier this year and have increased my longest run to 10K since then. I was running 3 times a week (total about 12 miles) but have now increased this to 4 times a week or 15 miles (largely on Anne's advice). I'm just going to focus on building up a base for the rest of the year, doing a few 5 and 10Ks, then plan on training for a spring half marathon, and then join the rest of you lunatics next year.

Anyway my question.....All I read on LSR points to keeping the training pace slow, slow slow. Can someone help me on how this works? If for example you have targetted a 4:30 marathon, that's about 10:30min per mile average. Any advice I read suggests a pace about a minute slower than this for LSR (11:30). How if you always do the long runs at 11:30, do you suddenly turn up for the marathon and run at 10:30? Sorry if this seems a stupid question? I'm confused!

Murph_D

zarkov wrote: »

I'm really beginning to question my ability to do the DCM. I can't get my head around running the full distance

I'm no expert, but it seems to me you're not in as bad shape as you think. You missed two weeks on the trot and so it was hardly surprising you struggled to catch up over the next few weeks (you only seem to have missed a small amount of distance even bearing that in mind). And now you are back on track. Once you do the 15m you will start to have some sort of inkling of what is in store - even though it's only a bit over half the marathon distance it's still a very long piece of endurance and I think once you've done that you will have your head around this kind of distance running.

Deedee2012

zarkov wrote: »

I'm really beginning to question my ability to do the DCM. I can't get my head around running the full distance and injury has hampered my training progress (missed week 5 & 6 of the HH Novice 1 plan). On week 7, I did the 3 mid week runs but could only manage an LSR of 10 miles (instead of 12) and the following Saturday I did two 6 miles runs (instead of 13m) and missed one of the mid-week runs. It was only last week that I was able to do the full plan 3, 7, 4 and the LSR of 10 miles (1h 46m). It's going to be interesting to see how this week goes with the 15m LSR. I haven't registered yet and I'm wondering am I fooling myself and maybe I should look toward next year. Any thoughts???

Complete novice so take this with a pinch of salt but I wouldn't try 15 this weekend if I were you, why not try more like 12 have a good run, get your confidence back and catch back up on the LSR mileage a mile here and there, that's what I would do anyways, hth D

Pacing Mule

greenb wrote: »

Anyway my question.....All I read on LSR points to keeping the training pace slow, slow slow. Can someone help me on how this works? If for example you have targetted a 4:30 marathon, that's about 10:30min per mile average. Any advice I read suggests a pace about a minute slower than this for LSR (11:30). How if you always do the long runs at 11:30, do you suddenly turn up for the marathon and run at 10:30? Sorry if this seems a stupid question? I'm confused!

My understanding of it is ....

The aim of the LSR is to get you used to time on your feet running. In order to allow you to increase the time on your feet you need to run a bit slower so there is always some extra in the tank.

Each weeks training is being built upon tired legs so you're never really at 100% during the process. However you taper (rest / decreased distances) coming into the marathon so on the day you are starting fresher.

Lastly the adrenaline of race day, the crowds and support etc will drive you on an extra few percent too.

All 3 factors combine to make a faster race day pace that is still sustainable.

menoscemo

greenb wrote: »

Hi All, sorry for hijacking this thread as I'm not doing the DCM this year...but will be doing it next year (most likely, probably, maybe, I think!!)

Anyway when I was debating whether to do it this year a few weeks ago (too late), I asked some questions here and got some great advice, particularly from YoungAnne (thanks!)

I only completed C25K earlier this year and have increased my longest run to 10K since then. I was running 3 times a week (total about 12 miles) but have now increased this to 4 times a week or 15 miles (largely on Anne's advice). I'm just going to focus on building up a base for the rest of the year, doing a few 5 and 10Ks, then plan on training for a spring half marathon, and then join the rest of you lunatics next year.

Anyway my question.....All I read on LSR points to keeping the training pace slow, slow slow. Can someone help me on how this works? If for example you have targetted a 4:30 marathon, that's about 10:30min per mile average. Any advice I read suggests a pace about a minute slower than this for LSR (11:30). How if you always do the long runs at 11:30, do you suddenly turn up for the marathon and run at 10:30? Sorry if this seems a stupid question? I'm confused!

In order to cover a distance fast, you first need to be able to cover the distance slowly. Going about it the other way (constantly running at x Speed and trying to increase the distance) just doesn't work and you get stuck in a rut injured, frustrated and burnt out. You can still use some of your shorter runs and races as speed work and the idea would be that you build endurnace from the long slow runs and speed from the pace runs and races and combine the two thing on the day.

More advanced marathon plans do of course combine Long Runs with marathon paced sections, but those types of plans require the athlete to have already built up several years of running experience to cope with the added miles and Intensity.

For Novice plans you really shouldn't get focussed too much on a goal time unless you have spent years training for shorter distances (5ks, 10ks, half marathons etc). In reality for most novices; marathon pace will be quite close to their LSR pace as they find when doing 15+miles runs for the first time, their pace slows a lot anyway (at least i found this to be the case when training for my first marathon and I was a complete novice runner at the time).
If after your first marathon you keep running consistently are running 15+ mile Long runs week in week out (even when not training for a marathon), you soon find the distance to be less daunting and learn to be able to speed up/slow down at will. At this point you can start doing long runs with agressive fast Marathon paced sections without jeopardising the body too much.

dazza21ie

greenb wrote: »

Hi All, sorry for hijacking this thread as I'm not doing the DCM this year...but will be doing it next year (most likely, probably, maybe, I think!!)

Anyway when I was debating whether to do it this year a few weeks ago (too late), I asked some questions here and got some great advice, particularly from YoungAnne (thanks!)

I only completed C25K earlier this year and have increased my longest run to 10K since then. I was running 3 times a week (total about 12 miles) but have now increased this to 4 times a week or 15 miles (largely on Anne's advice). I'm just going to focus on building up a base for the rest of the year, doing a few 5 and 10Ks, then plan on training for a spring half marathon, and then join the rest of you lunatics next year.

Anyway my question.....All I read on LSR points to keeping the training pace slow, slow slow. Can someone help me on how this works? If for example you have targetted a 4:30 marathon, that's about 10:30min per mile average. Any advice I read suggests a pace about a minute slower than this for LSR (11:30). How if you always do the long runs at 11:30, do you suddenly turn up for the marathon and run at 10:30? Sorry if this seems a stupid question? I'm confused!

Just to add to the other answers I think the general advice is to base your target marathon time and training paces on your recent shorter runs. You can put your times in the to McMillan Calculator to give you a guide. For a novice the best time to use is a half marathon time but then well all think we are going to run a great marathon time based on our 5k PB's!

Martin_ie2012

Hey everyone
Just checking in havent posted in a while, due to very limited internet access. AAnyway havent had the best few weeks. Had knee pain which i got checked out and took a few days rest on physios advice. All fine again but during this rest I seemed to lose a lot of motivation and even when i had been given the all clear i was missing runs for no real reason other that laziness. Havent managed to follow the full plan in almost 4 weeks which i know is not good, hope i havent done too much damage, at least i have gotten all the long runs in. Things are getting back on track did my 3 miles this morning before work which I almost never do amd am determined to follow the plan fully this week. 10 mile went well on saturday home in 1:43 which i was happy enough with. Anyway thats all for now am hoping for a good week and hopefully will be able to put the last few weeks down to a mid plan slump which is over now. Will be able to post more often so will check in more regularly.
Thanks all

career_move

Lordy its very quiet round here today....have all the rest of ye gone on yer hols or something
I have two issues:
1) I am eating like an absolute horse! I mean there is no end to my appetite. As soon as I'm finished eating I'm planning my next meal :eek: Can see me blowing up like a balloon come taper time :eek:
2) I have a 19 mile lsr planned for this weekend. Just me and my thoughts for 3 and a half hours could be dangerous so was seriously considering a trip to the park (Thanks Ray for putting that idea in my head). Anyone else want to meet up for lsr this weekend?

macinalli

career_move wrote: »

I have a 19 mile lsr planned for this weekend. Just me and my thoughts for 3 and a half hours could be dangerous so was seriously considering a trip to the park (Thanks Ray for putting that idea in my head). Anyone else want to meet up for lsr this weekend?

You're not likely to get many responses in this thread - there are usually some takers over here.

Pacing Mule

career_move wrote: »

Lordy its very quiet round here today....have all the rest of ye gone on yer hols or something
I have two issues:
1) I am eating like an absolute horse! I mean there is no end to my appetite. As soon as I'm finished eating I'm planning my next meal :eek: Can see me blowing up like a balloon come taper time :eek:
2) I have a 19 mile lsr planned for this weekend. Just me and my thoughts for 3 and a half hours could be dangerous so was seriously considering a trip to the park (Thanks Ray for putting that idea in my head). Anyone else want to meet up for lsr this weekend?

Sadly my LSR's are on Mondays due to work commitments

rasher_m

career_move wrote: »

Lordy its very quiet round here today....have all the rest of ye gone on yer hols or something
I have two issues:
1) I am eating like an absolute horse! I mean there is no end to my appetite. As soon as I'm finished eating I'm planning my next meal :eek: Can see me blowing up like a balloon come taper time :eek:
2) I have a 19 mile lsr planned for this weekend. Just me and my thoughts for 3 and a half hours could be dangerous so was seriously considering a trip to the park (Thanks Ray for putting that idea in my head). Anyone else want to meet up for lsr this weekend?

I'm the opposite, I'm turning into a skinny streaky rasher :mad:
What kind of splits are you doing for your lsr?
I would be up for meeting in the park for a few long ones from next week onwards but I think you're faster than me.

blockic

career_move wrote: »

Anyone else want to meet up for lsr this weekend?

Im in the same boat as you career move, got a 18m LSR and im dreading it as it will be complete boredom! But problem is I can only do it on sunday and the park is 1hr 30m drive for me so wont be able to help im afraid!

Will try and make a effort to get up there for one run before the marathon to put some faces to the names on here though!

career_move

macinalli wrote: »

You're not likely to get many responses in this thread - there are usually some takers over here.

Ya thanks but i'm a novice and wanted to run with the other novices and this is the novice thread so.....:p

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Sadly my LSR's are on Mondays due to work commitments

Boo to that

rasher_m wrote: »

I'm the opposite, I'm turning into a skinny streaky rasher :mad:
What kind of splits are you doing for your lsr?
I would be up for meeting in the park for a few long ones from next week onwards but I think you're faster than me.

10 - 10.30 min/mile any good to you?

career_move

blockic wrote: »

Im in the same boat as you career move, got a 18m LSR and im dreading it as it will be complete boredom! But problem is I can only do it on sunday and the park is 1hr 30m drive for me so wont be able to help im afraid!

Will try and make a effort to get up there for one run before the marathon to put some faces to the names on here though!

Cool. Will prob see you in kilkenny for the half?!

blockic

career_move wrote: »

Cool. Will prob see you in kilkenny for the half?!

Yep for sure! Can't wait for a race, it will break up the training a bit!

rasher_m

career_move wrote: »

10 - 10.30 min/mile any good to you?

yeah 10.30 would be possible...I'll give you a shout the weekend after this one about it.

FiiFii

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Hey lee,

I'm a novice, so I'm interested to hear what people's thoughts on supplements are also...

What I've been doing is having a chocolate milkshake (Yazoo) after my LSRs as I hear it's roughly equivalent to those powdered mixtures in terms of nutritional content....and tastier!

After a session I try to have an isotonic drink - I get tesco ones for 60cent which seem to do the job.

I take a multivitamin, omega oils, vitamin b complex and glucosamine sulfate each day too....

Tried recovery shake on last 2 long runs (15 miler + last weeks 10 mile) and it was brill - called 'For goodness shake', comes in 3 flavors and 3 parts carbs to protein. I don't drink milk so proper shakes out for me but for this one you just mix it with water which is handy - had in my bag after 10 mile run so just bought bottle of water & mixed it up on walk out of there.

Usually i'd have sore muscles for bout 48hrs after run, after taking this no stiffness or soreness at all so would def recommend:D Only tried strawberry flavor so not sure about other two (choc & banana I think)

Dilbert75

HHN2 has me doing 17m on Saturday. I'm training alone too (Mrs. Dilbert is training too but she's too fast for me) but too far from the Park to go there for a LSR (especially seeing I was up there last weekend, distant NI next weekend and back in Dublin for half weekend after, so this is my only non-travelling weekend for a month). Ipod time I think.

ncmc

I really recommend audio books if you get sick of listening to music. I'm listening to a really good Bill Bryson book at the moment and it makes the time just fly by. Had my easiest lsr to date on Saturday listening to it and it was 15 miles so a not inconsiderable distance! It's great to have something to concentrate on other than how sore your legs are or how wrecked you are!

Dilbert75

Must try that - or download some podcasts or something. Though I've so much music on the thing that I never get to hear that it's rare I get to hear something twice. Big problem is finding a road I've not run before, where I won't get bored looking at the same scenery and where I won't be run over. Apart from that I'm easy to please.:o

jprender

I've been somewhat resting up over the last week with some very tender calf muscles. Just two short runs since my last long run 8 days ago.

Calf guards arrived in the post this morning though, and they really made a difference.

27km Long Run completed tonight. Nearly 2.5 hours on the feet.


http://connect.garmin.com/splits/216208082


It's good to be back