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Minister Coveney confirms that there will be no new AEOS scheme for farmers
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26-04-2012 2:33pm#1"Minister for Agriculture Simon Coveney has confirmed in today’s Farmers Journal that there will be no Agri-Environment Options Scheme in 2012. The news has been greeted with disappointment and anger by farmers’ groups and public representatives.
It means that 14,000 farmers whose REPS contract finished after May 1st last years will now have no Agri-Environment Scheme this year.
Around 1,300 of those farmers are based in Mayo"
Like the culling of teachers to schools because their counterparts pay is ring-fenced through "Broke Park"; likewise the farming community must make it's gesture towards the deal signed at "De Headquarters". No fear of any real efficiencies in the Department however just the usual waffle and lip service to the unions.0
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This is no surprise of course but its a pity that the Minister couldn't be straight with farmers a few months ago and tell them the truth - there's no money so there will be no scheme.
At our Beef Discussion group meeting the other week there was a surprisingly large number of farmers who raised the issue of the ending of REPS. The general feeling of the meeting was that AEOS was a mickey mouse scheme - even the Teagasc advisor agreed.
A good number of them were really genuinely concerned about how they were going to manage without the REPS cash when it goes.
Of course there's no way of knowing anyone's personal circumstances are but I got the feeling that many of them had fairly substantial REPS 4 payments and were very dependent on it.
On guy said that without an equivalent replacement income by way of increased profit he would be going part-time.
Another admitted that the main reason he joined the BTAP was that without REPS he simply had to become profitable.
A lot of these guys were never beef finishers and there might have been a fair few of them operating suckler herd selling weanlings before the 10 or 22 month premia were claimed and maybe without quota so SFP is probably small. Indeed 8-10k REPS might well exceed their SFP.
It was something I hadn't really heard before at any of these meetings.
Wondering is this just my area or is it a widespread issue. Farmers don't tend to talk too much about money issues at these gatherings but I did get a sense of real worry among quite a few.
I received my last REPS 3 payment in Sept 2010 but for a small part timer dropping a couple of k per year while not pleasant is not life changing for me.
Any thoughts?0 -
Indeed.
The point of my post is that people need to realise that all these cuts/new taxes (take your pick from many) are being imposed because the Croke Park deal is sacrosant.
This can't be right/fair/substainable for all other sectors of society whether it be farmers or householders who are now subsidising this scam.
The salary of your average County Manager is now greater than the King of Spain - this is a monetary fact.0 -
theaceofspies wrote: »Indeed.
The point of my post is that people need to realise that all these cuts/new taxes (take your pick from many) are being imposed because the Croke Park deal is sacrosant.
This can't be right/fair/substainable for all other sectors of society whether it be farmers or householders who are now subsidising this scam.
The salary of your average County Manager is now greater than the King of Spain - this is a monetary fact.
Not fair of course but then again those that have most power will protect and insulate themselves. That's just the way it is.
Farmers cannot just say "Hands off our REPS/AEOS they constitute part of our income" in the same way as the unions have to date been able to say "hands off our allowances they are part of our overall package and untouchable because of Croke Park".
IFA don't seem to worried anyway - the SFP is the big fish for them.
Of course whether all allowances will remain untouched for much longer is debatable.0 -
theaceofspies wrote: »Indeed.
The point of my post is that people need to realise that all these cuts/new taxes (take your pick from many) are being imposed because the Croke Park deal is sacrosant.
This can't be right/fair/substainable for all other sectors of society whether it be farmers or householders who are now subsidising this scam.
The salary of your average County Manager is now greater than the King of Spain - this is a monetary fact.
If we got rid of every single garda, teacher etc. the country would still be screwed. Thats what happens when you take on the debt of private banks/property developers/speculators.
Blaming frontline workers like teachers for the abolition of AEOS is just straight out of the Sunday Independent propaganda machine.0 -
Not fair of course but then again those that have most power will protect and insulate themselves. That's just the way it is.
Farmers cannot just say "Hands off our REPS/AEOS they constitute part of our income" in the same way as the unions have to date been able to say "hands off our allowances they are part of our overall package and untouchable because of Croke Park".
IFA don't seem to worried anyway - the SFP is the big fish for them.
Of course whether all allowances will remain untouched for much longer is debatable.
Don't think farmers are hurting enough yet because of the good prices, I couldn't get anyone to come with me to meet politicians anyway.
Wonder willl they wake up when the land tax is being introduced.0 -
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Don't think farmers are hurting enough yet because of the good prices, I couldn't get anyone to come with me to meet politicians anyway.
If dairy/beef prices fall back and there is only the SFP to support farm incomes we'll have casualties especially among the smaller farmers who tend to be more dependant on schemes like REPS. They'll be no safety cushion then.0 -
Don't think farmers are hurting enough yet because of the good prices, I couldn't get anyone to come with me to meet politicians anyway.
Wonder willl they wake up when the land tax is being introduced.
Whatever about dairying I would imagine the proportion of beef farmers that are making a proper profit from their enterprise is still relatively small with increased costs going a long way to eroding the price gains.
Indeed finishers will probably be worse off this year as their margin (selling - buying price) won't really increase to cover higher feed/fertiliser costs.
By proper profit I mean the precise amount that your accountant declares for tax purposes minus direct payments and off farm income and not the Journal favourites like gross margin per ha or margin over feed.
I suppose it is still all about the SFP for many and as long as that stays relatively intact you will find it hard to get anyone to protest.0 -
theaceofspies wrote: »If dairy/beef prices fall back and there is only the SFP to support farm incomes we'll have casualties especially among the smaller farmers who tend to be more dependant on schemes like REPS. They'll be no safety cushion then.
If its so important why aren't more farmers keen to put their case to the politicians, TD's are just following the line of least resistance. Farmers are on the Titanic while the public servants,TDs bankers and social welfare recipients are in the lifeboats. As you say, it'll really hit us when the SFP is sorted. On British farming forum they're expecting a milk price of 21p/l (26c/l) in may, so the race to the bottom has started.... sorry about the rant0 -
If its so important why aren't more farmers keen to put their case to the politicians, TD's are just following the line of least resistance. Farmers are on the Titanic while the public servants,TDs bankers and social welfare recipients are in the lifeboats. As you say, it'll really hit us when the SFP is sorted. On British farming forum they're expecting a milk price of 21p/l (26c/l) in may, so the race to the bottom has started.... sorry about the rant
I think it's unfair and disingenuous to put the unemployed and general public servants into the same category as TD's and Bankers.. No matter the hype very few of the 400,000 unemployed have chosen the unemployed route as a profession to see out the recession, it's also unfair on teachers, guards and hospital staff..
I appreciate you have a point to make but it would be better made and perhaps listened to if you were more specific in your comments...
There are those out there draining unnecessary money from the public purse, you just need to be less generalistic... It's a bit like when non farming folk say that all farmers are lazy and reap in huge premiums from Europe so they don't have to farm properly and that we made a fortune selling sites during the boom..0 -
I think it's unfair and disingenuous to put the unemployed and general public servants into the same category as TD's and Bankers.. No matter the hype very few of the 400,000 unemployed have chosen the unemployed route as a profession to see out the recession, it's also unfair on teachers, guards and hospital staff..
..
Are you aware of the typical salary of a teacher?
Are you aware of the amount of hours teaching they do?
Are you aware of the number of weeks holidays they have every year?
This country will continue to be ruined whilst this "frontline" rubbish is spouted by everybody - a shure the poor teachers and nurses - god help em
Fact is the vast vast majority of our very large education and health budgets is spent on wages - over 80% in both departments
So the only reason our education and health services are suffering is because too much bloody money is being spent on wages0 -
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Are you aware of the typical salary of a teacher?
Are you aware of the amount of hours teaching they do?
Are you aware of the number of weeks holidays they have every year?
This country will continue to be ruined whilst this "frontline" rubbish is spouted by everybody - a shure the poor teachers and nurses - god help em
Fact is the vast vast majority of our very large education and health budgets is spent on wages - over 80% in both departments
So the only reason our education and health services are suffering is because too much bloody money is being spent on wages
Obviously a member of the FF/FG brigade. No mention of the cartel of lowlifes that have destroyed our country.
Oh and by the way our "large" education budget is a joke by OECD standards.0 -
Are you aware of the typical salary of a teacher?
Are you aware of the amount of hours teaching they do?
Are you aware of the number of weeks holidays they have every year?
This country will continue to be ruined whilst this "frontline" rubbish is spouted by everybody - a shure the poor teachers and nurses - god help em
Fact is the vast vast majority of our very large education and health budgets is spent on wages - over 80% in both departments
So the only reason our education and health services are suffering is because too much bloody money is being spent on wages
In general the job done by nurses and teachers is an exceptional one.. And I have no problems with their pay rates.. No doubt there are efficiencies that need to be delivered that the stupid Croke Park Agreement isn't reaching to..
However in the likes of Health the money is being waisted much higher up the food chain than the front line service providers... Mid to upper end management and general bad management is where the black hole is..
Personally I'm happy paying for a top level health and education system... we should be pushing for higher level services rather than the race to the bottom and go back to the services we had in the 1950's.. :rolleyes:
This Irish mentality of having a dig at those who are better paid is sickening and I'm sitting back listening to the hype around farming and increased farm incomes... that same dumb mentality will see calls for land tax, tax on out buildings, and any other tax for framing that can be thought up..0 -
Right I'll be more specific, all your incomes went up during the boom in line with the builders, solicitors, etc, benchmarking it was called,where is it now, has your income come down in line with builders, solicitors etc.....don't think so, the only income boom farmers had were those who sold land, and there wasn't many of those. Agriculture is a major contributor to the economy, yet the farmers and self employed income is being decimated to ensure the unemployed, public servants, TDs and bankers pay isn't hit. Farmers have been over penalised and we still have to pay the same extra taxes as you lotI think it's unfair and disingenuous to put the unemployed and general public servants into the same category as TD's and Bankers.. No matter the hype very few of the 400,000 unemployed have chosen the unemployed route as a profession to see out the recession, it's also unfair on teachers, guards and hospital staff..
I appreciate you have a point to make but it would be better made and perhaps listened to if you were more specific in your comments...
There are those out there draining unnecessary money from the public purse, you just need to be less generalistic... It's a bit like when non farming folk say that all farmers are lazy and reap in huge premiums from Europe so they don't have to farm properly and that we made a fortune selling sites during the boom..0 -
Who exactly is "you lot"?
And to clarify I've never received a benchmark increment in my life.
Maybe you should get your facts right before ranting on with your rubbish.0 -
In general the job done by nurses and teachers is an exceptional one.. And I have no problems with their pay rates.. No doubt there are efficiencies that need to be delivered that the stupid Croke Park Agreement isn't reaching to..
However in the likes of Health the money is being waisted much higher up the food chain than the front line service providers... Mid to upper end management and general bad management is where the black hole is..
Personally I'm happy paying for a top level health and education system... we should be pushing for higher level services rather than the race to the bottom and go back to the services we had in the 1950's.. :rolleyes:
This Irish mentality of having a dig at those who are better paid is sickening and I'm sitting back listening to the hype around farming and increased farm incomes... that same dumb mentality will see calls for land tax, tax on out buildings, and any other tax for framing that can be thought up..
Our teachers are the best paid teachers in the world
A country that's bloody broke paying those kind of wages0 -
MaxPower131 wrote: »Obviously a member of the FF/FG brigade. No mention of the cartel of lowlifes that have destroyed our country.
Oh and by the way our "large" education budget is a joke by OECD standards.
No I'm just not blind to see what is going on around me - maybe you are
We'd have the IMF in down even if our banks were rock solid - that is a fact.
We are spending billions upon billions more than we are taking in - regardless of bank bailouts and anything like that0 -
We'd have the IMF in down even if our banks were rock solid - that is a fact.
We are spending billions upon billions more than we are taking in - regardless of bank bailouts and anything like that
Agree with that. The budget deficit and the banking black hole are two separate things.
Had we no budget deficit, we could have told the bankers to F off without too much pain (well IF the banks hadn't been guaranteed at any rate)as we'd still have been able to cover the costs of running the country.
However, with needing money to patch the large hole in the budget deficit we have a large weak point which can be leveraged against us by those helping us out.
This is what happens when an economy is built on quick sand, or should that be a flood plain?0 -
This is no surprise of course but its a pity that the Minister couldn't be straight with farmers a few months ago and tell them the truth - there's no money so there will be no scheme.
At our Beef Discussion group meeting the other week there was a surprisingly large number of farmers who raised the issue of the ending of REPS. The general feeling of the meeting was that AEOS was a mickey mouse scheme - even the Teagasc advisor agreed.
A good number of them were really genuinely concerned about how they were going to manage without the REPS cash when it goes.
Of course there's no way of knowing anyone's personal circumstances are but I got the feeling that many of them had fairly substantial REPS 4 payments and were very dependent on it.
On guy said that without an equivalent replacement income by way of increased profit he would be going part-time.
Another admitted that the main reason he joined the BTAP was that without REPS he simply had to become profitable.
A lot of these guys were never beef finishers and there might have been a fair few of them operating suckler herd selling weanlings before the 10 or 22 month premia were claimed and maybe without quota so SFP is probably small. Indeed 8-10k REPS might well exceed their SFP.
It was something I hadn't really heard before at any of these meetings.
Wondering is this just my area or is it a widespread issue. Farmers don't tend to talk too much about money issues at these gatherings but I did get a sense of real worry among quite a few.
I received my last REPS 3 payment in Sept 2010 but for a small part timer dropping a couple of k per year while not pleasant is not life changing for me.
Any thoughts?
Farmers have been treated with contempt in regards to this matter - they were left in an information vacumn for well over a year by the Dept who would also want to wake up to the realities surrounding the new CAP and the greening measures required post 2015. I would also like to know into who's pocket these so-called savings are going??:mad:
PS: I read somewhere that farmers in Natura areas(SAC's etc.) are getting some sort of AEOS payment this year.0 -
Don't think farmers are hurting enough yet because of the good prices, I couldn't get anyone to come with me to meet politicians anyway.
Wonder willl they wake up when the land tax is being introduced.
Agree with that as well. I told my farming finances story when I lost REPS at a public meeting in Clifden two or three years back. Said if I couldn't be a shining example I could be a dire warning anyway :rolleyes: That left a huge hole in my finances that I still haven't recovered from. Got a massive round of applause at the end of it all, but, as you say, when it's not Joe Bloggs hurting, you won't see Joe Bloggs at his local TD's constituency office OR even lifting the phone to him/her. I also asked people to go to their TD's of whatever colour, might as well have just done a handstand in front of the front table for all the effect it had.
"I'm alright Jack" is good and well until the cheque isn't coming through the door any more. And I tell ye, it's no fun. That year it was me, this year it's someone else. Next year, etc.
For the record I was getting €11,000+ per year in REPs 3.
Huge generalisation alert: I think a large part of not being able to shift people out is if they're "in" with their particular brand of TD. Sure Val Falvey will look after me, don't I know him years.0 -
Even with the better prices recently, alot of landowners around the place I have in North Mayo are getting out of farming alltogether. Alot of land has been been effectively abandoned in the last few years and I can see this getting steadily worse if the current anti-small farmer policies of this government continue to be pursued:(0
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No I'm just not blind to see what is going on around me - maybe you are
We'd have the IMF in down even if our banks were rock solid - that is a fact.
We are spending billions upon billions more than we are taking in - regardless of bank bailouts and anything like that
You can keep chopping everyones income (except farmers obviously:D the typical everyone but me Irish attitude) and its not going to make any difference. Five hairshirt budgets and the economy is still contracting.
The way to get out of this mess is to grow the economy. The rest of europe have started waking up and kicking out puppet regimes of banks etc. Unfortunately no chance of that here......in 100 years time we'll still have FF/FG crony capitalism.0 -
It's only rubbish to those who are insulated from the worst of this recession, ie. those referred to in my previous post as being ''in the lifeboats''Who exactly is "you lot"?
And to clarify I've never received a benchmark increment in my life.
Maybe you should get your facts right before ranting on with your rubbish.0 -
That highlighted section tells a huge story, pharoh1. He and a huge section of farms simply are not profitable and require state support to continue farming. Note i didnt say need/want state support. Many subsidise their farming through REPS/AEOS or off farm jobs. Now i am not making any judgement on what people wish to do with their money/time but the facts are laid out before us. The level of support we will be getting will decline whether we like it or not. That isnt going to change whether FF/FG/Lab/SF/ULA are in power or not.This is no surprise of course but its a pity that the Minister couldn't be straight with farmers a few months ago and tell them the truth - there's no money so there will be no scheme.
At our Beef Discussion group meeting the other week there was a surprisingly large number of farmers who raised the issue of the ending of REPS. The general feeling of the meeting was that AEOS was a mickey mouse scheme - even the Teagasc advisor agreed.
A good number of them were really genuinely concerned about how they were going to manage without the REPS cash when it goes.
Of course there's no way of knowing anyone's personal circumstances are but I got the feeling that many of them had fairly substantial REPS 4 payments and were very dependent on it.
On guy said that without an equivalent replacement income by way of increased profit he would be going part-time.
Another admitted that the main reason he joined the BTAP was that without REPS he simply had to become profitable.
A lot of these guys were never beef finishers and there might have been a fair few of them operating suckler herd selling weanlings before the 10 or 22 month premia were claimed and maybe without quota so SFP is probably small. Indeed 8-10k REPS might well exceed their SFP.
It was something I hadn't really heard before at any of these meetings.
Wondering is this just my area or is it a widespread issue. Farmers don't tend to talk too much about money issues at these gatherings but I did get a sense of real worry among quite a few.
I received my last REPS 3 payment in Sept 2010 but for a small part timer dropping a couple of k per year while not pleasant is not life changing for me.
Any thoughts?
We are borrowing 50 million euro a day to pay state expenses. That is 11 euro/head/day or 4k a year/head. Water charges/household charges/land tax/ whatever-you-are-having-yourself tax and loss of benefits are inevitable.
The small farmer is going to suffer, inevitably more than the bigger farmer, but from situations like that new ideas and enterprises will arise (hopefully) but first all farmers will have to concentrate on the bottom line. Last weeks journal section on BETTER farms should be an eye opener to everyone on what we can do ourselves to improve our situations0 -
That highlighted section tells a huge story, pharoh1. He and a huge section of farms simply are not profitable and require state support to continue farming. Note i didnt say need/want state support. Many subsidise their farming through REPS/AEOS or off farm jobs. Now i am not making any judgement on what people wish to do with their money/time but the facts are laid out before us. The level of support we will be getting will decline whether we like it or not. That isnt going to change whether FF/FG/Lab/SF/ULA are in power or not.
We are borrowing 50 million euro a day to pay state expenses. That is 11 euro/head/day or 4k a year/head. Water charges/household charges/land tax/ whatever-you-are-having-yourself tax and loss of benefits are inevitable.
The small farmer is going to suffer, inevitably more than the bigger farmer, but from situations like that new ideas and enterprises will arise (hopefully) but first all farmers will have to concentrate on the bottom line. Last weeks journal section on BETTER farms should be an eye opener to everyone on what we can do ourselves to improve our situations
Yes, and all the while we will turn a blind eye to the wanten waste in the public sector/semi-state sectors.:(0 -
That highlighted section tells a huge story, pharoh1. He and a huge section of farms simply are not profitable and require state support to continue farming. Note i didnt say need/want state support. Many subsidise their farming through REPS/AEOS or off farm jobs. Now i am not making any judgement on what people wish to do with their money/time but the facts are laid out before us. The level of support we will be getting will decline whether we like it or not. That isnt going to change whether FF/FG/Lab/SF/ULA are in power or not.
We are borrowing 50 million euro a day to pay state expenses. That is 11 euro/head/day or 4k a year/head. Water charges/household charges/land tax/ whatever-you-are-having-yourself tax and loss of benefits are inevitable.
The small farmer is going to suffer, inevitably more than the bigger farmer, but from situations like that new ideas and enterprises will arise (hopefully) but first all farmers will have to concentrate on the bottom line. Last weeks journal section on BETTER farms should be an eye opener to everyone on what we can do ourselves to improve our situations
Yep.
It will force lads to look at actual profit rather than thinking they can get bye on turnover. Irrespective of size, the enterprise has to be making a profit and only by focusing on the profit/loss areas can lads really decide what needs to be done.0 -
That highlighted section tells a huge story, pharoh1. He and a huge section of farms simply are not profitable and require state support to continue farming. Note i didnt say need/want state support. Many subsidise their farming through REPS/AEOS or off farm jobs. Now i am not making any judgement on what people wish to do with their money/time but the facts are laid out before us. The level of support we will be getting will decline whether we like it or not. That isnt going to change whether FF/FG/Lab/SF/ULA are in power or not.
There will still be a substantial amount of money coming into farming via the new CAP - how it will be spent and who will get this money is the issue IMO. I suspect myself that this government will try and channel as much it can to the big boys and corporations. I don't beleive such a strategy is in the best interests of the majority of farmers -or many other rural industries. Its also likely to erode whatever support there is for the likes of CAP etc. among the general public.0 -
MaxPower131 wrote: »You can keep chopping everyones income (except farmers obviously:D the typical everyone but me Irish attitude) and its not going to make any difference. Five hairshirt budgets and the economy is still contracting.
The way to get out of this mess is to grow the economy. The rest of europe have started waking up and kicking out puppet regimes of banks etc. Unfortunately no chance of that here......in 100 years time we'll still have FF/FG crony capitalism.
I heard one of the union heads crying that a yes vote was a vote for austerity, and austerity is what has stagnated our economy for the last few years.
I heard today another union head accepting the need for a yes vote, but looking for a stimulus in exchange for it.
NEWSFLASH!!!!! We have been in receipt of huge stimulus for the last number of years. that stimulus, combined with the austerity policies we have in place is the only reason our county's economy has stagnated as opposed to collapsing.
Wake up and smell the real world0 -
That highlighted section tells a huge story, pharoh1. He and a huge section of farms simply are not profitable and require state support to continue farming. Note i didnt say need/want state support. Many subsidise their farming through REPS/AEOS or off farm jobs. Now i am not making any judgement on what people wish to do with their money/time but the facts are laid out before us. The level of support we will be getting will decline whether we like it or not. That isnt going to change whether FF/FG/Lab/SF/ULA are in power or not.
We are borrowing 50 million euro a day to pay state expenses. That is 11 euro/head/day or 4k a year/head. Water charges/household charges/land tax/ whatever-you-are-having-yourself tax and loss of benefits are inevitable.
The small farmer is going to suffer, inevitably more than the bigger farmer, but from situations like that new ideas and enterprises will arise (hopefully) but first all farmers will have to concentrate on the bottom line. Last weeks journal section on BETTER farms should be an eye opener to everyone on what we can do ourselves to improve our situations
I think we all understand that those income support schemes like REPS are a thing of the past and a reducing SFP is the only game in town.
Agree with you on the BETTER farms thing and I've done a lot of the stuff they advocate using REPS money to do most of it as it happens.
It would be interesting to see what the accounting profit is on these farms - there is a lot of investment going on and stuff like reseeding and even fencing is more of an ongoing cost. If all fixed and other costs were included and if say these farmers were to take even a modest salary was drawn would there still be profit?
They really need to replicate the transparency of the greenfields dairy project which give all of this detail.
It won't really matter to me as a hobby farmer but I worry that say someone losing REPS and with a small SFP like the guy at the meeting are under the impression that his full time beef farming business can move to a place where it will deliver a reasonable income for him and his family into the future.
Higher prices and the BTAP/BETTER schemes and the stuff from Teagasc are kind of encouraging this message. Much as I'd love this to be the case I just don't think it is realistic.
And again I mean proper accounting profit.0 -
Never said i was happy with that. I could give you examples that would put you sitting on your ar*e with the wanton lack of management ability or indeed shame on behalf of some of those on public salaries. But my point above to pharoh1 is that there is equal waste in the private sector and indeed the farming sector. Broke park(:D), as i think you dubbed it has only a year or so to run. I am not happy with it but when its gone i will expect a lot of blood on the ground and quickly. My vote in the next election depends on ittheaceofspies wrote: »Yes, and all the while we will turn a blind eye to the wanten waste in the public sector/semi-state sectors.:(0 -
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Never said i was happy with that. I could give you examples that would put you sitting on your ar*e with the wanton lack of management ability or indeed shame on behalf of some of those on public salaries. But my point above to pharoh1 is that there is equal waste in the private sector and indeed the farming sector. Broke park(:D), as i think you dubbed it has only a year or so to run. I am not happy with it but when its gone i will expect a lot of blood on the ground and quickly. My vote in the next election depends on it
Sorry 5live, I honestly cannot see things changing after Croke Park expires; not as long as Labour remain in power anyway. In all likelihood we'll see Croke Park II as we did with Benchmarking. These vested interests have the country by the throat.0 -
Just looking at teachers we an exchange student staying for a few weeks. In France, Denmark, Germany etc some have no midterm breaks Christmass holidays are two weeks, Some have no easter holidays and if they do it is only a week. Summer holidays are six weeks, eight weeks maximun the school day starts at 8am and while some finish at 3pm more go in until 4pm.
These students could speak fluent english, in our system after 13-14 years only about 10% can speak Irish and the same french, spanish or german etc. Our teachers are the highest paid in the EU by about 20% and yet whinge it the system not them that are at fault.
Going back to reps alot of the problem is the amount of large dairy and beef farmers that were left into REPS4. While it is trimed back they were allowed in with very high stocking levels and minimun condition's so because of that the government cannot fund new reps plans. The IFA have a lot to answer also look at the way they want to save some of the very high SFP. Yet they are doing nothing about the farmer that might have a high rate /HA but an low overall payment. I do not see them fighting to make sure that Farmers with SFP of less that 20,000 do not suffer cuts they seem to be more worried about the farmer with 40-500K.
Also most of the farmers that were in the old Reps schemes were less than 100 acre or on poor land in the West of Ireland now just like the preminms these were transfered to accross the Shannon0 -
Farmer Pudsey wrote: »in our system after 13-14 years only about 10% can speak Irish
God knows a lot of them barely speak English.0 -
MaxPower131 wrote: »Obviously a member of the FF/FG brigade. No mention of the cartel of lowlifes that have destroyed our country.
Oh and by the way our "large" education budget is a joke by OECD standards.
You can't exactly put FG into the same category as FF, FF are the crowd that ruined this country wasting all the funds when there actually was money. FG are merely trying to pick up the pieces, it will be a long time before this country gets back on its feet again.
And if the present government have to cut spending on the public sector so be it.0 -
Why is it every time public servants are mentioned people go on about guards teachers and hospital staff they are the ones we really need.
Do we really need so many army personal, planning officers,department officers
in ag environmental epa transport fisherys etc.
I think there are too many folder holders and box tickers going around trying to look busy and it does seem to be the private sector tax payer that is taking the bigest hit again.
I heard an old man tell me about years ago he was on the dole and was trying to
work a few days on the side but had a dole officer watching him and he said
ITs bad enough their paying me to do nothing but their paying him (dole officer)
aswell to watch me do nothing and make sure I do nothing:D0 -
Do we really need so many army personal, planning officers,department officers
in ag environmental epa transport fisherys etc.
I think there are too many folder holders and box tickers going around trying to look busyheard an old man tell me about years ago he was on the dole and was trying to
work a few days on the side but had a dole officer watching him
QED0 -
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Now that A.E.O.S. is closed to new entrants can the restrictions on designated lands be lifted oof those left out of the scheme.0
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Now that A.E.O.S. is closed to new entrants can the restrictions on designated lands be lifted oof those left out of the scheme.
I doubt it since these designations are legally binding - in any case AEOS will still be open to such people(according to what I read in the press last week). Had a look at the front page of this weeks IFJ which hints at a new AEOS for next year too.0 -
Farmers Journal says the minister is looking into a new scheme for next year which means if it comes in participants wont receive a payment until 2014. I dont think any commitments will be given to extra funding in years 2013/2014 as things will be tricky finance wise with end of bailout.0
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on a side note, we have a really bad teacher in our school, on facebook during class, texting people not correcting homework, generally crap, unfortunately my son had her last year and my daughter has her this year, i complained last year,dont want to be seen to be complaining again this year, is it true that once they have a post they have it for life in that their job is not performance related?Our teachers are the best paid teachers in the world
A country that's bloody broke paying those kind of wages0 -
Chiliroses wrote: »You can't exactly put FG into the same category as FF, FF are the crowd that ruined this country wasting all the funds when there actually was money. FG are merely trying to pick up the pieces, it will be a long time before this country gets back on its feet again.
And if the present government have to cut spending on the public sector so be it.
I really doubt if FG had been in government from 1997-2011 they would have done anything different. Remember them on the opposition benches calling for more spending? They were of course reflecting public opinion.
Given the huge amount of farmers income that come from subsidies I find it strange the calls for mass cuts in public sector/social welfare rates on this thread as if magically we will be saved from the axe.
As I've said before after five hairshirt budgets austerity has failed as the economy continues to contract. (AIB will also have a nice surprise for the taxpayer by year end)
The secret is to grow the economy. People of mainland Europe are waking up to this.0 -
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MaxPower131 wrote: »I really doubt if FG had been in government from 1997-2011 they would have done anything different. Remember them on the opposition benches calling for more spending? They were of course reflecting public opinion.
Given the huge amount of farmers income that come from subsidies I find it strange the calls for mass cuts in public sector/social welfare rates on this thread as if magically we will be saved from the axe.
As I've said before after five hairshirt budgets austerity has failed as the economy continues to contract. (AIB will also have a nice surprise for the taxpayer by year end)
The secret is to grow the economy. People of mainland Europe are waking up to this.
Yes, I do recall that they called for more spending, particularly in the health sector, which badly needed the extra funding, and trouble is the Health system is still in shreds today due to all the funds going into civil service division of the Health system..
Also alot of Farm income does come from subsidies and has done in the recent past, but these are directives from Europe and the CAP. The farmers needed these subsidies to survive due to falls in livestock prices, quota restrictions etc. Thats where the idea came from in the first place to substitute the price cuts. Now that prices are rising again schemes like REPS are being cut out. But its still tough for farmers to survive when overhead costs like fertiliser, electricity etc are so high0 -
Just to use fisheries as an example, how many have we?
Dont know here are some links of some watching our fish
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/fisheries/
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/
http://www.waterwaysireland.org/
http://www.iwai.ie/
http://www.epa.ie
along with 26 co. counsels
If it came down to one less guard keeping our streets safe, one less nurse
one less teacher in the school for my kids or one less person watching fish in
the river I know which I would pick
Im sure all public servants a good at their jobs but if cuts have to be made
a bit of common since should be used about where they made.0 -
Dont know here are some links of some watching our fish
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/fisheries/
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/
http://www.waterwaysireland.org/
http://www.iwai.ie/
http://www.epa.ie
along with 26 co. counsels
If it came down to one less guard keeping our streets safe, one less nurse
one less teacher in the school for my kids or one less person watching fish in
the river I know which I would pick
Im sure all public servants a good at their jobs but if cuts have to be made
a bit of common since should be used about where they made.
OMG I had no idea that there were that many of them, talk about a waste! I mean when you think about it the fish in the river were there ever and a few idiots looking over them with notebooks isnt going to make more of them be there!0 -
Chiliroses wrote: »OMG I had no idea that there were that many of them, talk about a waste! I mean when you think about it the fish in the river were there ever and a few idiots looking over them with notebooks isnt going to make more of them be there!
Well now in fairness it will, I know plenty of people who'd happily clean a river out of fish if they knew there were no bailiffs around. There's others then that'd happily dump any ould ****e in a river just to be rid of it.
There's a balance to be struck, where it is I don't know.0 -
Dont know here are some links of some watching our fish
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/fisheries/
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/
http://www.waterwaysireland.org/
http://www.iwai.ie/
http://www.epa.ie
along with 26 co. counsels
If it came down to one less guard keeping our streets safe, one less nurse
one less teacher in the school for my kids or one less person watching fish in
the river I know which I would pick
Im sure all public servants a good at their jobs but if cuts have to be made
a bit of common since should be used about where they made.
Thanks for the list DJ, you did indeed hit on the one state body with responsibility for fisheries, that being Inland Fisheries Ireland. About 300 staff nationwide including Admin. Some of the other links have nothing to very little to do with it per se.
The county councils infact add to the problem in many cases so can be scrubbed off your list too.Chiliroses wrote: »OMG I had no idea that there were that many of them, talk about a waste! I mean when you think about it the fish in the river were there ever and a few idiots looking over them with notebooks isnt going to make more of them be there!
Did you?0 -
Farmer Pudsey wrote: »The IFA have a lot to answer also look at the way they want to save some of the very high SFP. Yet they are doing nothing about the farmer that might have a high rate /HA but an low overall payment. I do not see them fighting to make sure that Farmers with SFP of less that 20,000 do not suffer cuts they seem to be more worried about the farmer with 40-500K.
Also most of the farmers that were in the old Reps schemes were less than 100 acre or on poor land in the West of Ireland now just like the preminms these were transfered to accross the Shannon
IFA have two aims
1. To maintain the budget.
2.To target subsidies at active farmers, no more sofa farmers.
They will not lobby to reduce any members SFP0 -
Dont know here are some links of some watching our fish
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/fisheries/
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/
http://www.waterwaysireland.org/
http://www.iwai.ie/
http://www.epa.ie
along with 26 co. counsels
If it came down to one less guard keeping our streets safe, one less nurse
one less teacher in the school for my kids or one less person watching fish in
the river I know which I would pick
Im sure all public servants a good at their jobs but if cuts have to be made
a bit of common since should be used about where they made.
lob it these lads aswell for a bit of marketing
http://www.bim.ie/0 -
IFA have two aims
1. To maintain the budget.
2.To target subsidies at active farmers, no more sofa farmers.
They will not lobby to reduce any members SFP
I think on point 2 it is fair to say that the IFA have made no attempt to distinguish between active farmers and high SFP receipients.
There are many very active farmers with no SFP like those who bought land in the last ten years where the seller stacked entitlements on the remainder of their own farm.
Equally there are many in receipt of substantial SFP who are not that active twelve years on - guys who rented sheds and packed them with any sort of male cattle for example.
There are a few more near me who earned their SFP on large numbers of cattle but have switched entirely to cereal farming for an easier life (and who can blame them) with contractors doing all the work while they direct operations from the sofa.
IFA trot out a simplistic line - those with high SFP are active and productive farmers and their SFP should be preserved. Many undoubtedly are active and productive, but not all.
They say it is unacceptable that someone with a high SFP could lose 20% of their payment but if the loss of REPS cuts a farmer's income in half I don't hear much of an outcry. I say this as an IFA member.
Could anyone tell me if it is or could have been possible for the govt to modulate/reduce the higher SFP payments and divert the money into some sort of ongoing REPS scheme or is this completely EU controlled and are modulations uniformly applied across the EU?0 -
Thanks for the list DJ, you did indeed hit on the one state body with responsibility for fisheries, that being Inland Fisheries Ireland. About 300 staff nationwide including Admin. Some of the other links have nothing to very little to do with it per se.
The county councils infact add to the problem in many cases so can be scrubbed off your list too.
Did you?
I did! not properly though I didn't realise there were so many people around the country that would go out of their way to cause pollution in our rivers0 -
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