Should people be allowed criticize religion?

shopaholic01

I don't think it's right to criticize people for their individual beliefs etc.
However, organised religions with outdated ceremonies are fair game. Organised religions try to exert control over people's lives expect to be supported financially for their efforts.

The catholic church is a prime example of hypocrisy, fortunately it is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

davet82

Should people be allowed criticize religion?

I could understand this thread if we couldnt, but we can, so whats the problem?

Logical Fallacy

davet82 wrote: »

Should people be allowed criticize religion?

I could understand this thread if we couldnt, but we can, so whats the problem?

Possibly inspired by Ray D'Arcy's comment and subsequent refusal to apologise for them.

I say fair play to him for not apologising.

General Relativity

davet82 wrote: »

Should people be allowed criticize religion?

I could understand this thread if we couldnt, but we can, so whats the problem?

A'hem. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0713/1224250543694.html

2009

NiallFH

Of course, this idea that religion and faith are things not to be questioned is a joke.

Religion has created this idea that it is disrespectful to question it and it is my opinion that the reason for this is they know how weak their arguements are and that they lack any real kind of evidence.

shootermacg

FatherLen wrote: »

i would never criticize someone because they had religious faith but it's when they start trying to ram it down peoples throat or judging you because you don't believe in a higher power or obey their religious laws, thats when i will express my views on religion.

+1
Only a fool absolutely believes anything and fools cause wars. Live and let live, why should someone's else s beliefs bother you? A bit of mindfulness goes a long way.

davet82

General Relativity wrote: »

A'hem. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0713/1224250543694.html

I stand corrected

Chuck Stone

I feel offended.

Owen_S

I for one would never criticise religion, but I don't mind taking the piss.

44leto

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I feel offended.

I am sorry but you are not allowed to,

Toe the party line,,or else:mad:

prinz

Sykk wrote: »

So lock it or not.. There you have it "Another religion bashing thread", this isn't focusing on the CC for once... What do you think??

Criticise religion? Absolutely. There are few things better than a good satire or parody of religion. Funny you should mention Rowan Atkinson, his sketch on The Amazing Jesus is a comedy classic as far as I'm concerned. Monty Python nailed it. The Simpsons deal with it extremely well too.

However criticising religion should not be abused by being used as a cover to deliberate insult, incite, provoke, belittle, etc anyone.

Where I draw the line and where most of the issues with this on boards arise is people under the guise of 'criticising religion' actually go on to ridicule and personally insult those who choose to practice or believe a religion of whatever type. Stereotyping 'holy joes' is a hobby here and I've never seen anyone called on it. This is especially relevant given the constant stream of anti-Catholic bile regurgitated on AH in particular... which inevitably descend into slagging off individual Catholics and Christians, and how they choose to practice their religion.

Where I also draw the line is ill-informed idiocy which seems to be perfectly acceptable when aimed at the clergy. Aim it at the RCC and you don't need facts, figures, proof, all you need is popular opinion and a bandwagon. Aim the same bile at something else and you'll have a rush of posters demanding links, studies etc.

Sleepy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I feel offended.

44leto

Sleepy wrote: »

LOL
Stephen Fry you just got to love him, he somehow makes the world a better place.

He was great in the film I just watched as sherlock holmes even smarter brother.

hooradiation

Sykk wrote: »

I generally dislike Islam as a religion.. I know it's a massive stereotype, but I think their views on women's rights are absolutely absurd, their religion is based on the belief that people who are not Muslims, should become one, until the world is a Muslim only religion. Muslim believers bring in Islamic Laws into countries that severely violate human rights and especially the rights of women.

Oh hello, Mr Scott Gentries

Snowie

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think it's right to criticise people for having religious beliefs, but nothing wrong with criticising (constructively) the beliefs themselves. To some people though, the two things are the same.

but yet it's ok for The catholic to criticize people for using condoms or being gay?

i think your being to nice. The Catholic organization deserve to be questioned and critisied more then any other religious movement because of the way its handled its self over the past few years its certainly deserves that much..

Sleepy

I'm no fan of the Catholic Church but I fail to see how they have any more (or less) crimes to answer for than Islam?

If our education system would only teach critical thinking instead of mindless indoctrination, I think we'd be free of religion inside a generation or two.

44leto

Snowie wrote: »

but yet it's ok for The catholic to criticize people for using condoms or being gay?

i think your being to nice. The Catholic organization deserve to be questioned a critisied more then any other religious movement because of the way its handled its self over the past few years its certainly deserves that much..

I would go further back to the last 1800 years, it has a blood trail of deaths and broken lives longer then any other organisation including Germany.

Seachmall

prinz wrote: »

the RCC don't need facts, figures, proof, all they need is popular opinion and a bandwagon.

FYP

Two sides to the coin.

HUNK

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I feel offended.

You better get that checked out. I was offended once. Woke up with leprosy the next day. :pac:

Chuck Stone

Sleepy wrote: »

If our education system would only teach critical thinking instead of mindless indoctrination...

Try starting as thread about that and watch the protestations from normally critical people.

Duggys Housemate

44leto wrote: »

I would go further back to the last 1800 years, it has a blood trail of deaths and broken lives longer then any other organisation including Germany.

Lol. This is one reason why I kinda want Catholic education to continue, not so much the religious stuff but it might over-come English ( speakers) propaganda, the folk memory you get when there are no other sources of information. Just this week George Monbiot wrote an article about the Mau Mau insurrection in Kenya, and how that was buried - there was news of the colonial past - and yet 1.2 million people were put in concentration camp, 80,000 people killed, thousands were anally raped by bottles etc. All very recent stuff, not the crusades here.

On a list of organisations directly responsible for garbage the British Empire beats the crap out of the Catholic Church, or Germany, those hate figures of the English speaking world.

Duggys Housemate

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Try starting as thread about that and watch the protestations from normally critical people.

The term "critical thinking" is meaningless. You cant teach it, you either can or you can't.

DrumSteve

Gumbi wrote: »

I think the answer to any level-headed human being is obvious - but just to be explicit: OF COURSE! Why should religion be given special treatment?

Slag off those lads in the middle east and you won't be level headed for long.

KeithAFC

Why not. I criticise Rome and the Catholic church all the time.

foxyboxer

If you attend a funeral and only there to pay respects, you do get a flicker of anger inside when the Priest declares that the greatest event in human histroy happened 2000 years ago with the Resurrection.

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The term "critical thinking" is meaningless.

Critical thinking clarifies goals, examines assumptions, discerns hidden values, evaluates evidence, accomplishes actions, and assesses conclusions.

You cant teach it, you either can or you can't.

Are you saying that people either have a propensity for critical thought or they don't - like a genetic predisposition?

Duggys Housemate

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Are you saying that people either have a propensity for critical thought or they don't - like a genetic predisposition?

Yes, and quoting Dawkins verbatim ( or anybody who might himself be a critical thinker) is not critical thinking.

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yes, and quoting Dawkins verbatim ( or anybody who might himself be a critical thinker) is not critical thinking.

Why have you singled out Dawkins?

Being critical of religion is not the same as having a critical mind imo. As someone said earlier religion is an easy target. Religion does a fine job of showing itself up.

Duggys Housemate

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why have you singled out Dawkins?
.

I didn't, I said, or anybody who has a critical mind.

Seachmall

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why have you singled out Dawkins?

Because if atheism had fundraising calendars he'd be Mr. June.

efb

Blind Faith- the clue is in the name

Logical Fallacy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Are you saying that people either have a propensity for critical thought or they don't - like a genetic predisposition?

This is actually what a lot of people believe.

This is a good read.

http://www.readingfirst.virginia.edu/elibrary_pdfs/Crit_Thinking.pdf

Duggys Housemate

Heres an example of critical thought - I have come to believe that modern science depended on the Catholic Church. Thats ignoring the ideology of the day, which is always good.

St.Spodo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSByCb8lqY

Duggys Housemate

Ah, Stephen Fry is here. And Hitchens is in there too. We have the troika of critical thinkers telling peeps what to think.

At the very least this is an argument to authority, at most they are kinda prophets. In that video Fry is ignoring his own claims to being offended - for instance, a Christian group trying to cure Gays.

Seachmall

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Heres an example of critical thought - I have come to believe that modern science depended on the Catholic Church. Thats ignoring the ideology of the day, which is always good.

Don't forget the Muslims.

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Heres an example of critical thought - I have come to believe that modern science depended on the Catholic Church. Thats ignoring the ideology of the day, which is always good.

I know, I know.. thank God for science.

krudler

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Ah, Stephen Fry is here. And Hitchens is in there too. We have the troika of critical thinkers telling peeps what to think.

better than celibate men telling people how to have a nice marriage.

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

In that video Fry is ignoring his own claims to being offended - for instance, a Christian group trying to cure Gays.

That's not just offensive - that is harmful, ignorant and abusive.

Duggys Housemate

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That's not just offensive - that is harmful, ignorant and abusive.

you sound offended.

eyescreamcone

Belief in any religion is stupid!!!

Anybody that believes in a religion is stupid (whether he is told that he is stupid or not)

If that person who believes in a religion is you, then...if the cap fits

Duggys Housemate

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Belief in any religion is stupid!!!

Anybody that believes in a religion is stupid (whether he is told that he is stupid or not)

If that person who believes in a religion is you, then...if the cap fits

Was James Clerk Maxwell stupid?

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

you sound offended.

Nope, not offended. Telling gay people you can 'cure' them is ignorant and harmful - it's a world away from offensive.

Duggys Housemate

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nope, not offended. Telling gay people you can 'cure' them is ignorant and harmful - it's a world away from offensive.

Thats a formula of words. To say something is ignorant and harmful is to take offence at the statement.

You are offended.

Stercus Accidit

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

No, no one should be allowed do anything. That's why we have religion in the first place.

Fantastic! lol

golden lane

the right to criticize......is enabled by a society that expects personal insults will not be part of that criticism..............

religion is a choice in free countries.......and a duty in others.......

the workings of religion should be criticized, when they clash with peoples freedom.....or when it's members think they are above the law.....

Chuck Stone

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Thats a formula of words. To say something is ignorant and harmful is to take offence at the statement.

You are offended.

The statement 'curing gays' is stupid. If I were gay I might feel offended as one of a number of feelings.

Telling someone that they can be cured (implying a disease or dysfunction) for the way they are is ignorant, prejudiced and harmful.

Logical Fallacy

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Belief in any religion is stupid!!!

Anybody that believes in a religion is stupid (whether he is told that he is stupid or not)

If that person who believes in a religion is you, then...if the cap fits

You should read about Charles Darwin's evolving (no pun intended) relationship with religion over the course of his life.

It might take some height off that horse.

44leto

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

You should read about Charles Darwin's evolving (no pun intended) relationship with religion over the course of his life.

It might take some height off that horse.

Indeed but his belief petered out, not because of his glorious and seminal work, but with the death of his beloved daughter.

The best sentence to describe evolution over religion was the Dawkin's book title "The blind watchmaker" genius.

Logical Fallacy

44leto wrote: »

Indeed but his belief petered out, not because of his glorious and seminal work, but with the death of his beloved daughter.

The best sentence to describe evolution over religion was the Dawkin's book title "The blind watchmaker" genius.

Indeed, but my point is not that his belief died out, or why, but rather that a man with a clear level of intelligence had some faith at one point.

More a dispute at the concept that anyone who believes is stupid than anything else.