Suicide rates in Ireland

hairyprincess

486 people took their own lives in 2010 (these are the most recent figures).

386 men and 100 women. The highest numbers were between the 25-44 age bracket; 203 to be exact (42%). What is going on with our young people? How can we help them?

I'm sorry if this thread upsets people, but we can't ignore these figures. I'm sure we all know people who have committed suicide, and we are all too aware of the devastation it leaves. I lost a close friend last week, and in the last 3 weeks I have heard of five men taking their own lives, four of them in 25-44 age bracket.

With all the job losses and wage cuts people are under more and more pressure, what are the next published figures going to be like? And does anybody in authority really care?

Link to CSO statistics: http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2010/vstats_q42010.pdf
*Mods move if you feel the need to but I think AH is a target for this type of discussion*

Dangerous Man

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

seantorious

25 to 40 is generally quite a difficult time. It not a case of nobody cares, it just quite difficult to help. It just stinks of a lots of problems in society rather than one in government.
Especially in suicide one study found that of approximately 250 people who jumped in front of the tube in London and survived only 10% intended to do it before arriving at the station.

Sky King

In fairness it's getting a lot more exposure than it used to.

Not enough by any means but I have noticed moreso these days that there's work being done to clear this awful stigma that is associated with depression and mental illness and raise awareness that yes lots of people get it and yes lots of people can get treated for it, and there's always a way out.

chin_grin

So you could say the government creates depression (through their bad decisions) and depression causes suicide so the government is (in a way) killing us?

As far as I know Depression charities\helplines like Aware are getting a lot more active of late (saw a good few ads about). So at least that's some respite to know that there's help available, it's just making that first step.

Also, sorry for your loss OP.

Battered Mars Bar

Bertie was pro suicide I believe

Robdude

Ummm isn't this down from 2005 and 2009?

I'm not saying it's a good thing that anyone commits suicide - but this thread makes it sound like a new and/or rising epidemic.

xzanti

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

I believe that, unfortunately the recent spate of suicides is just a symptom of everything else that's going on in his country.. Yes, there are other factors and people will do it for various different reasons.. but the increase of late has a lot to do with the economic situation.. and hopefully when or indeed IF it is ever resolved, the numbers will then decrease again in time.. hopefully!

In the meantime, yes I think more needs to be done.. I think the Banks should bare more responsibility when it comes to dealing with people 'on the edge'.. i.e. when Joe Blogs comes to discuss his mortgage crisis, he should be met by bank workers who have been trained to be more understanding and sympathetic.. and who are aware that they are dealing with someone who is under a lot of pressure.. instead of pushing them further into the darkness.

cloud493

Well when the government still aren't funding places like pieta house, does make you wonder.

mickrock

It's a bit of a catch-22 situation because the more that suicide is reported and talked about the more people who will contemplate it.

Sunnyisland

There is more awareness out there now and there are people and organisations there to help,But with the recession and sudden and unexpected changes to ones life unfortunately some people just cant cope and see there is only one way out for them,We never know what goes on in peoples minds.

mikemac1

cloud493 wrote: »

Well when the government still aren't funding places like pieta house, does make you wonder.

Well the HSE have their own services too which people can access.
They part fund some others but they can't fund them all

http://www.pieta.ie/Useful_links.html
From their website there are a huge number of organizations out there.
Some should be funded, others will remain voluntary

mickrock wrote: »

It's a bit of a catch-22 situation because the more that suicide is reported and talked about the more people who will contemplate it.

It always went on
Even when it was a sin, brought shame on your family and you would be not allowed in the graveyard it still happened

The more awareness of the help out there the better

But I also see your point, maybe one lad in sixth year maybe for an example and then his classmates are affected and you worry over them.

minidazzler

That is simply the figure for deaths that were recorded as suicides. You could probably add a fair few more if you looked hard at the number of single vehicle road deaths that take place in the early hours of the morning.

It's a really unfortunate statistic, but there isn't much you can do about it, especially so when it's a very young person (14-20) that does it because if you look at the town in England where the media kept reporting the deaths more and more kids went for it.

There are probably a lot of parents, friends and family who feel hard done by when the media don't report the death of their child to bring to light suicide, but it tends to be a bad idea to report it.

http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/files/library/sreporting.pdf

steddyeddy

I really believe that the level of social divide in a country plays a big part in suicide and depression (just my opinion). I think we have too high a suicide rate for our size and that a lot of the public just dont want to admit the size of the problem.

SEPT 23 1989

A permanent solution for a temporary problem.

mikemac1

steddyeddy wrote: »

I really believe that the level of social divide in a country plays a big part in suicide and depression (just my opinion).

How do you mean?

People struggling with unemployment and bills and then people from well off backgrounds?

I'm not sure what social divide means
Just interested to know

Micky Dolenz

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

cloud493

Don't think its being suggested that the government should fund it all. But since the HSE therapy and counseling waiting list is over a year long for those who aren't an immediate threat to themselves, it could help funding places that do such good work, no?

girl2

I was at suicide prevention training and they don't like to use the word "commit" suicide because of the notion that it suggests a committing a crime.

Me, personally, I do think it's a bit of a crime - to all those left to pick up the pieces.

JuliusCaesar

Just posted these in the Psychology forum Mental Health Help sticky:


The Samaritans are a well trained group of volunteers available to talk to youabout any problems or life grievances you wish to talk about. www.samaritans.org or email jo@samaritans.org to get trained samaritan help via email. Alternatively dial 1850-609090 to speak in privacy and confidentiality

National Office of Suicide Prevention and the National Suicide REsearch Foundation have a number of links and leaflets:

http://www.nsrf.ie/cms/?q=node/15

http://www.nsrf.ie/cms/?q=node/33

http://www.nsrf.ie/cms/?q=node/10

http://www.nosp.ie/html/help.html

http://www.nosp.ie/html/resources.html

Suicide prevention: http://www.suicideprevention.ie/


Pieta House isn't the be-all and end-all of help for those who are suicidal, although they seem to have no problem getting media exposure.

JuliusCaesar

cloud493 wrote: »

But since the HSE therapy and counseling waiting list is over a year long for those who aren't an immediate threat to themselves, it could help funding places that do such good work, no?

And yet again, can I make it plain that this kind of overgeneralisation does no good whatsoever, especially for those who are desperate.

Waiting times will vary from location to location and from time to time.

This overgeneralisation just makes those who are feeling hopeless, feel even more hopeless and prevents them finding out what the actual times are in their locality.

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

cloud493

I'm basing it on my own experience of the HSE. I'm not questioning the samaritans do good work mind.

scico rocks

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

Well said.

minidazzler

girl2 wrote: »

Me, personally, I do think it's a bit of a crime - to all those left to pick up the pieces.

While I don't mean to infer that you are calling people who do kill themselves selfish, I'd like to make a point about people who do consider those who kill themselves to be selfish because of the people left behind. (your post just opened the door a tad by mentioning those left behind.

It's kind of self serving to want someone who is really in dire straits and who does not want to be alive to stick around so that other people don't get upset.

I know this might make it seem like I consider suicide a good thing in some cases, but in 99% of cases I don't. (I'm pro-choice on the whole euthanisation thing, and if I was terminal I'd probably do it rather than suffer.)

I don't think it's a good thing, but some people do suffer so much in their everyday lives that their only perceived option is to not live that life. For some people it is not a temporary pain or desire, though, I imagine for a lot it is, for some it's permanent.

Robdude

girl2 wrote: »

I was at suicide prevention training and they don't like to use the word "commit" suicide because of the notion that it suggests a committing a crime.

Me, personally, I do think it's a bit of a crime - to all those left to pick up the pieces.

So, presumably, it's not a crime so long as you make the appropriate arrangements beforehand?

pebbles21

seantorious wrote: »

Especially in suicide one study found that of approximately 250 people who jumped in front of the tube in London and survived only 10% intended to do it before arriving at the station.

Excuse my ignorance,but how do they know only 10% intended to do it?

GarIT

hairyprincess wrote: »

486 people took their own lives in 2010 (these are the most recent figures).

386 men and 100 women. The highest numbers were between the 25-44 age bracket; 203 to be exact (42%). What is going on with our young people? How can we help them?

I'm sorry if this thread upsets people, but we can't ignore these figures. I'm sure we all know people who have committed suicide, and we are all too aware of the devastation it leaves. I lost a close friend last week, and in the last 3 weeks I have heard of five men taking their own lives, four of them in 25-44 age bracket.

With all the job losses and wage cuts people are under more and more pressure, what are the next published figures going to be like? And does anybody in authority really care?

Link to CSO statistics: http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2010/vstats_q42010.pdf
*Mods move if you feel the need to but I think AH is a target for this type of discussion*

Why are you asking about young people when old people had the highest rates of suicide?

fonda

Its crazy all the people I know, my ould fella committed suicide 5 years ago and my best mate 10 years ago. Its tough to go through it once but to go through it twice was awful. Then recently my little 15 year old cousin killed herself, I wasn't that close to her cause of a big enough age gap but it brings it all back. I especially feel for my aunt and uncle cause I know the pain. I also know at least another 5-10 at least (not people close to me but people I would have known). I think the numbers are far higher than is reported. Like i know there are 300+ road deaths every year but I've never known of one person in a serious accident never mind being killed

Maybe I've just been unlucky but simple maths tells me if I personally know so many people that suicide has touched the numbers must be far higher!

djk1000

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

I looked into that a little while back, the CSO changes misadventure findings to suicide where necessary for statistical purposes. They know what coroners are doing and try to weight the figures accordingly. So lets say 400 suicides are recorded by coroners, there could be 500 recorded by the CSO based on qualitative review of cases.

So on that side, it's not under reported too much, however there are a lot of accidents, particularly single vehicle car accidents that may be suicides, these don't get recorded as such

cloud493

For the record, I'm not claiming pieta house is the only resource available to people, or even the best one. I didn't find it particularly helpful. And aware/the samaritans/HSE services/anything else are very very good. But my point is, all these resources are good, the government should do for it.

Micky Dolenz

djk1000 wrote: »

I looked into that a little while back, the CSO changes misadventure findings to suicide where necessary for statistical purposes. They know what coroners are doing and try to weight the figures accordingly. So lets say 400 suicides are recorded by coroners, there could be 500 recorded by the CSO based on qualitative review of cases.

So on that side, it's not under reported too much, however there are a lot of accidents, particularly single vehicle car accidents that may be suicides, these don't get recorded as such

And drowings, factory/farm/construction accidents to name but a few. Some suicides are very well planned out.

I suppose the figures can never be accurate. However the rate is alarming and something like the RSA should be set up to tackle it head on.

My name is URL

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

I think that's tad unfair. I'm no FG supporter but plenty of its TD's a fairly vocal on the issues of suicide and mental health reforms. One of their TD's (Dan Neville) is actually President of and one of the founding members of the Irish Association of Suicidology.

stupidusername

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

It's not misinformation when it's from your own experience and the experience of those you know. My own experience is that i've just got an appointment for talk therapy more than a year after I sought help (in Dublin that is,when I sought it in Limerick I was told no). And yep I was desperate at the time,and told them I had suicidal thoughts all the time. I was on edge all the time and still I was told I wasn't considered important enough.

And it's all very well to come in quoting a number of helplines and services,but the reality is the services in the country are absolute ****e. And that's from personal experience of three counsellors,4 doctors,but 6 antidepressants.

Services seem to be there but once you get talking about real help,it's very bloody hard to get.

IM0

Im betting OP that you wouldnt have made this thread or maybe even had any idea about the rates?, it all comes up [anything]when it happens NIMBY

hairyprincess

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And drowings, factory/farm/construction accidents to name but a few. Some suicides are very well planned out.

I suppose the figures can never be accurate. However the rate is alarming and something like the RSA should be set up to tackle it head on.

I don't think it's fair on the victim of the families to make assumptions like that. We can only deal with the actual figures as they are recorded.

It does need to be tackled head on. The question is how. I'm not sure there is a need for reporting suicides, but information about dealing with stress and depression needs to be drummed in to everyone at every possible angle. When people are depressed they tend to hide to it away from others for fear of their reaction. We need to be more outspoken imo.

GarIT wrote: »

Why are you asking about young people when old people had the highest rates of suicide?

Old people? I would quantify 'old' as being over 65, they accounted for 31 of all suicides in 2010.

hondasam

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

GarIT

hairyprincess wrote: »

Old people? I would quantify 'old' as being over 65, they accounted for 31 of all suicides in 2010.

25-44. Maybe its debatable if they are old. But they definitely aren't young. 40 is the very latest age that I would consider someone old after.

hondasam

hairyprincess wrote: »

I don't think it's fair on the victim of the families to make assumptions like that. We can only deal with the actual figures as they are recorded.

It does need to be tackled head on. The question is how. I'm not sure there is a need for reporting suicides, but information about dealing with stress and depression needs to be drummed in to everyone at every possible angle. When people are depressed they tend to hide to it away from others for fear of their reaction. We need to be more outspoken imo.

Some accidents are suicide but it's cant always be proven. If a farmer falls into a slurry tank how can you say if it's an accident or not?

The more suicide is reported the more copycat suicides there will be, It needs to be talked about but it's not necessary to broadcast suicide funerals all over the papers.

Uriel.

hondasam wrote: »

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

Perhaps also down to old style religious beliefs as well. As far as I know, the rule about unconsecrated grinding no longer applies in the Catholic church, but often the old mentality remains that the act of suicide is wrong from a moral, religious, spiritual and social point of view.
There is still a lot of stigma attached to it in regards to families. Sure there's still a huge amount of stigma in relation to mental health (problems) generally which is terribly downheartening and frustrating.

jaffacakesyum

GarIT wrote: »

25-44. Maybe its debatable if they are old. But they definitely aren't young. 40 is the very latest age that I would consider someone old after.

You serious? 40 isn't old.

65+ is old. That is usually the age considered to be old in most medical research/studies, social services etc.

hairyprincess

hondasam wrote: »

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

That's hardly legal for the coroner to do, is it?

hondasam

hairyprincess wrote: »

That's hardly legal for the coroner to do, is it?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=coroners%20recording%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fnational-news%2Fsome-coroners-underreport-cases-of-suicide-3067697.html&ei=LpyZT-S3JdGAhQeo-9T2BQ&usg=AFQjCNHdcwSxad5fPbbkEl5q8-IeobMzng


I honestly don't see why some families think how a death is recorded will make a difference. The fact is if they took their own life then it's suicide.

humbert

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

JuliusCaesar

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And yet again, can I make it plain that this kind of overgeneralisation does no good whatsoever, especially for those who are desperate.

Waiting times will vary from location to location and from time to time.

This overgeneralisation just makes those who are feeling hopeless, feel even more hopeless and prevents them finding out what the actual times are in their locality.

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

Yeah but when it happens that someone seeks help, is told there's none and is dead within a couple of days it's that which dominates for those who knew, not rumours or news reports.

bnt

hondasam wrote: »

I honestly don't see why some families think how a death is recorded will make a difference. The fact is if they took their own life then it's suicide.

Isn't there a religious angle to it, though? IIRC some churches, including the Catholic, discriminate(d) against suicides when it comes to the funeral. Which is/was stupid, since a funeral isn't for the person who died - he/she is not there - but rather for the living people left behind.

MadYaker

Irish men of that age group are not good at talking about emotional/mental health problems.

My name is URL

humbert wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

Higher priority in what?

humbert

My name is URL wrote: »

Higher priority in what?

Time and resources spent on trying to prevent them.

hondasam

bnt wrote: »

Isn't there a religious angle to it, though? IIRC some churches, including the Catholic, discriminate(d) against suicides when it comes to the funeral. Which is/was stupid, since a funeral isn't for the person who died - he/she is not there - but rather for the living people left behind.

The death cert is issued after the inquest which is months after the burial.I don't think any priest/church has a problem with funerals for suicide victims. While priests might not be overly happy about it they would never refuse a funeral or say anything to the family.
There is no stigma attached any more imo.

@Humbert, you cannot stop someone committing suicide if they really want to do it.

LH Pathe

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time. We just let our 'role models' do that.. without ever taking a leaf. Indeed the popular culture was essentially barbarism, yet few barbaric acts did occur. Why are people so keen to hurt themselves, and others.. today?


..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

mikemac1

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time.

Of course it went on

LH Pathe wrote: »

..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

I bet you're an Arts student