Suicide rates in Ireland

My name is URL

humbert wrote: »

Time and resources spent on trying to prevent them.

I don't think priority should be given to any single cause of death. Campaign and advocacy groups exist for all sorts of diseases and disorders. Surely the government should treat all preventable causes of death with equal importance and afford them the appropriate time and resources?

hondasam wrote: »

@Humbert, you cannot stop someone committing suicide if they really want to do it.

That's a bit of a myth. The majority of those who take their own lives are ambivalent about doing so until the end. Most people who complete suicide do not want to die, they just want to end their pain. An appropriate offer of help and support to people in a suicidal crisis can reduce their risk of dying by suicide.

cloud493

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time. We just let our 'role models' do that.. without ever taking a leaf. Indeed the popular culture was essentially barbarism, yet few barbaric acts did occur. Why are people so keen to hurt themselves, and others.. today?


..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

Well thats just silly.

DonkeyStyle \o/

I read it was averaging 3 a day in Ireland.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-people-now-die-from-suicide-every-day-of-the-year-3010723.html

hondasam

My name is URL wrote: »

That's a bit of a myth. The majority of those who take their own lives are ambivalent about doing so until the end. Most people who complete suicide do not want to die, they just want to end their pain. An appropriate offer of help and support to people in a suicidal crisis can reduce their risk of dying by suicide.

People commit suicide for lots of different reasons, some will have had all the help that was possible but will still decide to die.
If someone has reached this point all the talking in the world will not stop them doing it of course you might save them this time but what about the next time.

Pottler

I've posted in other threads about this subject and it appears to be a huge issue at the moment yet is rarely mentioned in the media. A friend went to the local hospital morgue to identify a body and turned out he knew the attendant. "Pick out your one there now" said the attendant, "we have 14 in there from suicide this weekend". Holy sh1t. Thats 1 hospital.

My name is URL

hondasam wrote: »

People commit suicide for lots of different reasons, some will have had all the help that was possible but will still decide to die.
If someone has reached this point all the talking in the world will not stop them doing it of course you might save them this time but what about the next time.

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

LH Pathe

mikemac1 wrote: »

I bet you're an Arts student

how. did I namedrop Franz Ferdinand or something



where would the inkling be I may be a 'student' of the arts. I have been in prison, on the streets.. But a college?!! where did you get this. am well learned in popular culture through the decades and social parralels, critiques.. but only in my own time. I bet you're a mac?!

What young men are force fed today is frankly feminine, for the most part. Disillusioned.. Disenfrachised. Too soft, despite the frustrated front. Higher expectations, demands, to land a jobs all the while more suited to women. Do I have to break it down. Today's world is female orientated. There's a creeping, gradual castration going on with no sufficient outlet.

hondasam

My name is URL wrote: »

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

I would like to see stats on the reasons why people commit suicide, how many victims were suffering from depression or had mental illness. How many commit suicide over financial or relationship issues.
I think you can prevent some of them but not all of them unfortunately.

LeeHoffmann

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

I hope so.

hairyprincess

hondasam wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

I would like to see stats on the reasons why people commit suicide, how many victims were suffering from depression or had mental illness. How many commit suicide over financial or relationship issues.
I think you can prevent some of them but not all of them unfortunately.

Funny I was just thinking of the reasons why people I know over the years have taken their own lives, and to be honest, for the ones I can be sure of it was a mixed bag. Family falling outs, relationship issues, financial issues and depression.

CongressTart

LH Pathe wrote: »

What young men are force fed today is frankly feminine, for the most part. Disillusioned.. Disenfrachised. Too soft, despite the frustrated front. Higher expectations, demands, to land a jobs all the while more suited to women. Do I have to break it down. Today's world is female orientated. There's a creeping, gradual castration going on with no sufficient outlet.

Is that why male dominated sports takes up half of all news bulletins? What female roles are men taking on? If anything it's reversed. But women are still dominating traditional female roles too such as cleaning, education, health and childcare.

I can't see what you mean about the feminisation of the world contributing, seems like you are blaming womens lib because the affliction affects more males than females. Bit of a cop out.

Also there is no comparison of rates in the past as there was too much shame to talk about or mention suicide.

grey_so_what

I know five people who took their own lives. Mostly financial reasons but one due to terminal illness diagnosis apparently. So very sad for all concerned. All this guys were lovely, It really is heartbreaking to see families left so lost after their deaths. One man was in his late seventies. Just heartbreaking for all concerned.

Dudess

Lol - "there were far fewer suicides in 1988". Painstaking research went into that one I'd say...

LH Pathe

Nobody wants to hear about isolated cases of something perceived as selfish, privately grave and a family issue in the news. they happen everywhere. all the time. It only gets mentioned if it's become just so endemic you simply can't brush it under the carpet. If it has become so common it needs to be addressed.. pretty much what we've arrived at. Nobody in particular; just a distressing amount.

There's something more toxic about these times despite ongoing efforts to clean up. Can't quite put my finger on it. When I was young mental illness and physical impairment was almost championed, lol. An ability made out of a disability. A superstar made out of something that would sooner be kept in the closet of today's pop scene driven by sexiness of youth resulting in money - else just take it; or die trying. If these are role models to em I'd imagine most kids feel inferior alright, our culture was outward looking and only in a rage because of global injustices. not because we didn't have enough money or good enough looks - it's a more vacuous world, today. and this may be killing people.

Dermighty

hairyprincess wrote: »

The highest numbers were between the 25-44 age bracket; 203 to be exact (42%). What is going on with our young people? How can we help them?

Just to comment on these figures, rather than your post:

25-44 is a fairly obscure bracket. I wouldn't say that the upper and lower end of those scales would have that much in common, and I certainly don't think that they are related.

Just my two cents.

TeddyTedson

whoops sorry.

CongressTart

TeddyTedson wrote: »

whoops sorry.

I don't know if this contributes to the rate, but it is a possibility with the 'feminised world' theory of LH Pathe.

degausserxo

cloud493 wrote: »

Don't think its being suggested that the government should fund it all. But since the HSE therapy and counseling waiting list is over a year long for those who aren't an immediate threat to themselves, it could help funding places that do such good work, no?

To be fair, they do partially fund Pieta - something in the region of €100,000. But seeing as it costs millions to run per year, and the HSE will happily refer people there, and do so quite often, it should be substantially more.

cloud493

degausserxo wrote: »

To be fair, they do partially fund Pieta - something in the region of €100,000. But seeing as it costs millions to run per year, and the HSE will happily refer people there, and do so quite often, it should be substantially more.

This. You can talk about how they don't mind media exposure, but services don't pay for themselves :pac:

Scanlas The 2nd

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time. We just let our 'role models' do that.. without ever taking a leaf. Indeed the popular culture was essentially barbarism, yet few barbaric acts did occur. Why are people so keen to hurt themselves, and others.. today?


..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

If the feminisation of our culture is causing increasing suicide rates I would expect finland and Sweden to have huge suicide rates. The men there really lack assertiveness from what I gather.

Dudess

But then there's the argument that expectation to "man up" and hide emotions is a contributory factor. And that's always been around.

user098

Lets remember that anyone who dared question the Irish government just a few short years ago was told to commit suicide. The people that laughed, guffawed and appluded Bertie's sly agenda comments have not gone away you know. Inda / noonan / Leo veruca and fiasco phil are just as capable of coming out with the same guff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

jammy roger

There's certainly a growing lack of social connectedness in this country which no one seems to want to talk about. I can see it in young men's faces; the loneliness and isolation. When I was young in the late 1980s people would generally greet one another on the streets in suburban areas, none of that happens any more. Many people don't even know their own neighbors. People in this country are now generally very insecure it seems due to growing social pressures. All this has a big affect on the increasing rates of suicides.

cloud493

You can say suicide is a bad thing, how selfish it is. But how do you think the person doing it feels?

paddyandy

Generally speaking .. In the 40s 50s & 60s there was always somebody in charge somewhere and well defined limits to what could and could'nt happen but these have been worn away with constant pushing at limits and boundaries in behaviour . We are witnessing the results .
The fears are much greater and different that people have these days ;and there is realistically nobody to turn to very often .

Doc Ruby

paddyandy wrote: »

Generally speaking .. In the 40s 50s & 60s there was always somebody in charge somewhere

What?

humbert

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think priority should be given to any single cause of death. Campaign and advocacy groups exist for all sorts of diseases and disorders. Surely the government should treat all preventable causes of death with equal importance and afford them the appropriate time and resources?

If resources were infinite then yes, treat them all with equal importance. But they are not so there will have to be priorities. For example, the number of lives that can be saved for X amount of money.

I think more resources should be devoted to people who, for example, are dying of some treatable form of cancer than, again for example, alcohol induced liver failure and finally people who just choose to kill themselves.

paddyandy

It's more likely to do with prevailing attitudes than money .What can money do about private hells ? There's some kite flying that goes on from time to time .

Stiffler2

This is what pi$$es me off about this kunt-treee.
486 suicides this year and no one cares

but road death, whoaaa, hold on a sec, you mean we can make money off this by charging fines and give out penalty points. Whoaa =- hold on, Gay Byrne wants to run the show.


Well then, F**K all the suicides, let's tackle road deaths instead because it makes us look good, at the same time we can piss off all road users.

Road deaths are half that number.


RSA really pi$$ me off.

paddyandy

Driving is a very public .Suicide is very private .That's how .

Stiffler2

paddyandy wrote: »

Driving is a very public .Suicide is very private .That's how .

This is true however they convey that they care about deaths ?
If this is the case why not tackle the larger number of deaths - ie - suicides v's road deaths.

fishy fishy

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

not trying to be any way sarcastic here, but didn't one of our "dear leaders" actually suggest for some people to do it.

billybudd

Just too much preasure on people these days, the amount of people who just scrape by week in and week out is too great and sooner or later this affects a persons mind to the point of there being no point.

hondasam

Stiffler2 wrote: »

This is what pi$$es me off about this kunt-treee.
486 suicides this year and no one cares

but road death, whoaaa, hold on a sec, you mean we can make money off this by charging fines and give out penalty points. Whoaa =- hold on, Gay Byrne wants to run the show.


Well then, F**K all the suicides, let's tackle road deaths instead because it makes us look good, at the same time we can piss off all road users.

Road deaths are half that number.


RSA really pi$$ me off.

How many people have died in road accidents through no fault of their own? People who take their own lives have a choice. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.

Dudess

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A permanent solution for a temporary problem.

Unfortunately that's not always true (although I agree it can be, and is a good phrase for many) - some people's pain is not temporary, sadly... :-/

Loopy

cloud493 wrote: »

You can say suicide is a bad thing, how selfish it is. But how do you think the person doing it feels?

I don't think they are thinking rationally.
The internal pain is too much to bear and they have to end that pain.

hondasam

cloud493 wrote: »

You can say suicide is a bad thing, how selfish it is. But how do you think the person doing it feels?

This is a question that keeps those left behind awake at night, for most people there is no answer but you have to hope they thought what they were doing was the right thing.
I like to think their mind makes them think about happy things and not depressing thoughts.

paddyandy

very few of us are really good listeners and i know that fact very well from experience .

A_Sober_Paddy

mickrock wrote: »

It's a bit of a catch-22 situation because the more that suicide is reported and talked about the more people who will contemplate it.

Any evidence to back this up?

Because it does sound like a bizarre line of logic

kowloon

pebbles21 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance,but how do they know only 10% intended to do it?

Perhaps they give everyone a questionaire on the way into the station.

hondasam

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Any evidence to back this up?

Because it does sound like a bizarre line of logic

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=reporting%20suicide%20causes%20more%20suicides&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdartcenter.org%2Fcontent%2Frecommendations-for-reporting-on-suicide&ei=s9ObT_CEJs20hAePgYWMDw&usg=AFQjCNFfERTkcSP_woCm945X1x9pz--m5A

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=cluster%20suicid&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CE0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCopycat_suicide&ei=z9SbT_HUDZOzhAe_5o3dDg&usg=AFQjCNEAdLyHTYhnSyJWiHIrf1oOdAGy6A

It's not that bizarre really.

Joko

Stiffler2 wrote: »

This is what pi$$es me off about this kunt-treee.
486 suicides this year and no one cares

but road death, whoaaa, hold on a sec, you mean we can make money off this by charging fines and give out penalty points. Whoaa =- hold on, Gay Byrne wants to run the show.


Well then, F**K all the suicides, let's tackle road deaths instead because it makes us look good, at the same time we can piss off all road users.

Road deaths are half that number.


RSA really pi$$ me off.

Eh, it's not a competition between road safety and suicide prevention.

...

I wonder how many road deaths are suicide related. Is there any statistics on this?

aidan24326

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

Cpmparing with road deaths is just a silly and pointless comparison. Road safety can be clearly targeted with well defined meaures, like coming down heavy on drink driving, making roads safer, reducing speed limits, more garda traffic checkpoints, penalty points etc etc

Suicide is an issue that covers the whole societal spectrum, and there are so many reasons a person may take their own life. So what exactly are the government supposed to do? Build a perfect society? I've known people who committed suicide for reasons that were well outside of what a government could hope to influence. I'd agree though that it shouldn't be such a taboo subject, and suicides should be reported as such, rather than swept under the carpet in true Irish style.

minidazzler

Stiffler2 wrote: »

This is what pi$$es me off about this kunt-treee.
486 suicides this year and no one cares

but road death, whoaaa, hold on a sec, you mean we can make money off this by charging fines and give out penalty points. Whoaa =- hold on, Gay Byrne wants to run the show.

Well then, F**K all the suicides, let's tackle road deaths instead because it makes us look good, at the same time we can piss off all road users.

Road deaths are half that number.

RSA really pi$$ me off.

How would you propose suicide be limited? For the most part when someone kills themselves the friends and family end up shocked and surprised that it happened. They didn't realise how depressed the person was, how do you expect the government to know? You can't have councellors going around to talk to every person in the country once a week. Finding at risk people is easy enough, finding all the at risk people is very difficult given not even the closest members of their circle know what they were contemplating.

And finally, WHY do you think road deaths are half the number of suicides? I would wager it's because of the good work that the RSA do. So what if road users get pissed off that they can't speed as fast as they want, if it's working, and it seems to be, then what's the problem?